Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

Comer1

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

I've not read rest of pages but am reading guidelines here

The 40% that was going towards the orals has been taken back?

Yes, to be predicted now also

Treppen

Anyone still struggling with deciding on grades the Union has sent out some criteria.
Seems fair to me.

randylonghorn

Treppen wrote: »

Anyone still struggling with deciding on grades the Union has sent out some criteria.
Seems fair to me.

Lol, you're a gobshoite, Trep! And I'll have the bottle of whiskey, provided it's a single malt (if Scottish) or a Jimmy.

Hard to fall out with a Jimmy in fairness ...

Rosita

Multipass wrote: »

If it’s a foreign language exam, but is their native language, I’d imagine top marks are a given

Many of these can speak those languages but might t be great at writing. And in the case of Polish there is no oral exam which is bizarre considering the number of Polish in Ireland now.(At least that's what the SEC told me when I rang them on behalf of a student) So marking them is a challenge.

deiseindublin

LCAs still as good as ignored, few lines telling us that similar will be done. Lovely.

rainbowtrout

Choochtown wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2f07eb-leaving-cert-2020-information/

Point 8 on this states that

"students will have access to the school-based data"

and also that

"schools should not disclose the estimated marks or rank orders to students"

Well that makes sense. School based data would be house exams. They already have access to those marks.

In the event that a student wants to appeal their predicted mark (can't believe I'm writing that sentence) they would have to have access to the data that the school used to arrive at that grade presumably to try and argue their case.

TheValeyard

Question.


Students gets predicted grade.
Not happy.
Takes written exam.
Does worse.
Which grade do they take?

jayo76

I made this point much earlier in discussions at a time when I never thought Predicted Grades would happen, our school has not had a H1 in History over the last 3 years from around 40 students. The year before that our school had three A1s under the old system, none of the students I had the last 3 years were in my eyes H1 students so no problew with that, lots of them got H2 and both I and them were delighted.

This year I have two students who in my eyes are guaranteed H1 students, over 90 in every house exam, mocks, both got A at Junior Cycle and every bit as strong as students who got A1 four years ago. In my reading of the proposals there is now a real danger these students even if I estimate them at 90+ will not get a H1, simply because students of the last 3 years yeren't quite as high achieving as them. How is this fair?

Millionaire only not

jayo76 wrote: »

I made this point much earlier in discussions at a time when I never thought Predicted Grades would happen, our school has not had a H1 in History over the last 3 years from around 40 students. The year before that our school had three A1s under the old system, none of the students I had the last 3 years were in my eyes H1 students so no problew with that, lots of them got H2 and both I and them were delighted.


This year I have two students who in my eyes are guaranteed H1 students, over 90 in every house exam, mocks, both got A at Junior Cycle and every bit as strong as students who got A1 four years ago. In my reading of the proposals there is now a real danger these students even if I estimate them at 90+ will not get a H1, simply because students of the last 3 years yeren't quite as high achieving as them. How is this fair?

U might get away giving H1 to one of them !
Iny meany miny moe- lol

jimmytwotimes 2013

TheValeyard wrote: »

Question.


Students gets predicted grade.
Not happy.
Takes written exam.
Does worse.
Which grade do they take?

They can pick either

jayo76

Millionaire only not wrote: »

U might get away giving H1 to one of them !
Iny meany miny moe- lol

Yeah and thats where the joke and horrible part of this is. Never mind H1S take any grade, say a teacher has 4 students all roughly equal ability between 60 and 70, now has to split them though and rank them knowing well that the one he gives the lowest ranking to they are condemning to a H5, that may well cost that student a college course.

I hope all students do realise what they have signed up to now but of course now there will be zero student accountability, it will be the teacher that didnt like them who is to blame.

Alrigghtythen

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

They can pick either

That cany be right. The actual exam grade couldn't be dismissed in favour of a predicted one

rainbowtrout

TheValeyard wrote: »

Question.


Students gets predicted grade.
Not happy.
Takes written exam.
Does worse.
Which grade do they take?

I would presume the written one as that is an actual measure of their ability.

rainbowtrout

Millionaire only not wrote: »

U might get away giving H1 to one of them !
Iny meany miny moe- lol

Not sure why you think it's funny????

Would you like your daughters grades decided like that this year?

Bobtheman

The department have come out as tools in all of this. The main issue is that kids stress is presented as huge and Trumps all other issues in Ireland.
It was feasible to run them but the pity the children lobby won.
Meanwhile many businesses are going bust.
If we can't run exams where less than 100 kids would be gathered in buildings of 30 rooms etc how the fxxx will we ever open the economy??

mirrorwall14

We've been told to continue teaching LC's to the end but cannot assess or comment on students or discuss anything to do with grading. Has anyone else been told this? Like literally everything I do right now is "do this" I correct. "Read my correction". Now "do it again". Over and over. Particularly for music composition

acequion

The bit that alarms me the most is the fact that the subject teacher is expected to use the evidence of classwork /homework. Some of us are better record keepers than others and until the closure revolutionized our digital skills and moved everything on line, records were often just physically written into physical teacher journals, pretty much up to whatever worked for the teacher, while the physical work went back to the student and is now inaccessible. I see huge problems there and an enormous weighting of responsibility onto the teacher! So only the official school exams logged into VSWARE should be used.

What do the rest of ye think? I'm getting more and more worked up and alarmed about this because it appears that a teacher has zero protection in this country!

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

We've been told to continue teaching LC's to the end but cannot assess or comment on students or discuss anything to do with grading. Has anyone else been told this? Like literally everything I do right now is "do this" I correct. "Read my correction". Now "do it again". Over and over. Particularly for music composition

Well our principal announced to parents through FB that we would still be teaching. He neglected to mention it to us though.

mirrorwall14

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Well our principal announced to parents through FB that we would still be teaching. He neglected to mention it to us though.

Thats worse then me :eek:

rainbowtrout

acequion wrote: »

The bit that alarms me the most is the fact that the subject teacher is expected to use the evidence of classwork /homework. Some of us are better record keepers than others and until the closure revolutionized our digital skills and moved everything on line, records were often just physically written into physical teacher journals, pretty much up to whatever worked for the teacher, while the physical work went back to the student and is now inaccessible. I see huge problems there and an enormous weighting of responsibility onto the teacher! So only the official school exams logged into VSWARE should be used.

What do the rest of ye think? I'm getting more and more worked up and alarmed about this because it appears that a teacher has zero protection in this country!

On top of that it depends on the nature of the subject. When I'm correcting homework in class (maths, I don't have LC maths this year), I'm checking to see that it's done, and to explain questions students got wrong/found difficult etc. I know from the work we do in class everyday who is likely to have it all right coming in and who is likely to have had problems with some of the trickier questions. How can that feed into a final grade?

Inspector Coptoor

acequion wrote: »

The bit that alarms me the most is the fact that the subject teacher is expected to use the evidence of classwork /homework. Some of us are better record keepers than others and until the closure revolutionized our digital skills and moved everything on line, records were often just physically written into physical teacher journals, pretty much up to whatever worked for the teacher, while the physical work went back to the student and is now inaccessible. I see huge problems there and an enormous weighting of responsibility onto the teacher! So only the official school exams logged into VSWARE should be used.

What do the rest of ye think? I'm getting more and more worked up and alarmed about this because it appears that a teacher has zero protection in this country!

I can’t agree with you here.

It shouldn’t be based solely on exam scores.

Students may well be on an upward trend.

50s in early 5th year, 60s in late 5th year, 70s in mocks and if student has been working really hard - we have to use our professional judgement as to whether that student gets 79 or 80.

If we were to average the scores on VSWare - a lot of students would score way lower than they would have in the LC.

We have to be realistic and fair and professional.

I won’t be sticking ardently to 4 scores on VSWare.
I will acknowledge them and include them in my deliberations.

km79

10 minute segment on RTE news
5/6 students views including one who is “relieved but now stressed “
One parent
A very quick line from a principal

Not a single teacher
Where is our voice ?

acequion

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I can’t agree with you here.

It shouldn’t be based solely on exam scores.

Students may well be on an upward trend.

50s in early 5th year, 60s in late 5th year, 70s in mocks and if student has been working really hard - we have to use our professional judgement as to whether that student gets 79 or 80.

If we were to average the scores on VSWare - a lot of students would score way lower than they would have in the LC.

We have to be realistic and fair and professional.

I won’t be sticking ardently to 4 scores on VSWare.
I will acknowledge them and include them in my deliberations.

Grand but what do you propose to protect the teacher? Not every teacher will have reliable records.

And in your final sentence above you assume that you will have the autonomy to make your decision about your class. If that were the case then I'd say great. Right now I could predict with fairly pin point accuracy exactly what each of my students will score. But I can't prove that. And where does that leave me?

Also, this is already and will be mired in bureaucracy. A 12 page report already on this.

Notorious

km79 wrote: »

Not a single teacher
Where is our voice ?

Our voice doesn't make news. There's always going to be people complaining whether the exams are run or not. I can see faults and valid arguments with both sides. Some students will benefit from this, others will suffer. At least those who suffer will have the option of sitting an exam at a later date. It sucks for them, but such is life. Another year before they start college and life will go on.

I saw a vocal trainee doctor with a large following on Twitter posted a tweet about how all of her teachers hated her in school and told her she'd never succeed as a doctor. She feels sorry for the students. While this moan didn't surprise me, what did surprise me was the amount of teachers who had agreed/liked her post. The only reason the post appeared on my feed was because it was retweeted by a prominent geography teacher.

Interesting times.

RealJohn

km79 wrote: »

Where is our voice ?

Shut your trap, teacher. Nobody wants to hear from you. Your views are irrelevant.

Mardy Bum

The department has saved a few million (minus the fees for this advisory group). Richard Bruton is sitting at home delighted that his legacy of crippling the education sector and diverting the funds elsewhere has continued.

km79

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2f07eb-leaving-cert-2020-information/#information-for-leaving-cert-students

If students appeal they WILL see the teachers predicted percentage

Any sign of the union ......

r93kaey5p2izun

What happened to the push for comment only marking? My old school was involved in a programme on this. There would be comments only on all but term exams. And several term exams were cancelled in favour of holding block teaching and feedback meetings with students. They'll have little evidence. Teachers were completely against this but it was pushed by management.

bren2001

km79 wrote: »

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2f07eb-leaving-cert-2020-information/#information-for-leaving-cert-students

If students appeal they WILL see the teachers predicted percentage

Any sign of the union ......

I don't think the Union can protect yous from that. It is their data and would fall under GDPR. They have a right to the information if requested.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

That cany be right. The actual exam grade couldn't be dismissed in favour of a predicted one

That's what they said in the press conference so may or may not be accurate