Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

Bobtheman

I think we have to get a bit of perspective
The Department has ****ed this up by continuous flip flops.
That is the Past-you can't change the past
Thousands of people are dying who would have normally been expected to enjoy the Summer
Businesses that are now closed-wont open again.
The suicide rate will rise again as we hit a recession.

Grades will be determined by school exams and perhaps the mocks. It depends on each school how much interference comes from on high but let us remember we are not looking at x-rays. We will err on the side of caution.
But let us get a grip on ourselves that we don't inadvertently hype this thing further
Most of you are pretty good guesses on final grades as it is.

randylonghorn

joebloggs32 wrote: »

There is the voice of reason from the first girl. She hasn't listened to the noise and waffle from the ISSU. The validity of their survey is quite shaky.

I'd say "quite shaky" is being kind tbh.

But the media trumpeted it anyway without once critiquing how it had been compiled. Investigative journalists my backside.

spurious

man_no_plan wrote: »

All this talk about predicted grades in the UK.

They do their actual exams afterwards. That's the point everyone seems to miss.

It's not predicted grades no exams.

It is also a system that those engaging in are well aware of from the start, not something that has been landed in on tens of thousands of candidates because of a silly, reactionary, unthought out protest online.

Newbie20

acequion wrote: »

Unions are the official voice of the teachers. But it's the responsibility of every single teacher to make sure his voice is part of that official voice.

What I kind of meant was that Unions were brought to the party late on so they had some bit of a say but hadn’t time to consult their membership so therefore teachers had no voice.

Millionaire only not

Random sample wrote: »

At what stage of the year we’re they done? If assessments have taken place since those grades were given, then they would have to be taken into account too.

November is application time for UCAS

Millionaire only not

Choochtown wrote: »

Why can't every student who has an under-subscribed 3rd level course as their 1st choice on their CAO form be just accepted onto that course?
This would take a substantial percentage of students out of the predicted grades circus and avoid students accessing information that tells them they were ranked 29th out of 30 as that information would no longer exist.
The points system is just to sort out who gets what course (supply and demand) so it's not really relevant if an undersubscribed 3rd level course (of which there are many) requires 500 points or 100.

They still need there result. What about they drop out of that course or pursue something else in life .

km79

https://m.independent.ie/incoming/coronavirus-ireland-live-updates-return-to-work-protocols-will-see-no-handshaking-temperature-testing-and-intensive-cleaning-policies-39192826.html

Random sample

Millionaire only not wrote: »

November is application time for UCAS

A lot can change between November and 12th March. I wouldn’t hold any teacher to what they said in November.

ethical

Just a point on the two teacher unions.

The ASTI hve been in touch with their members today to get back to them with any concerns so that they can discuss it at their meeting this evening.

The TUI did not get in touch with their members and have accepted whatever is thrown at their members (albeit that this is not a precednt for future years which they have got, seemingly)

Would it not have been better to issue a joint statement.I know TUI members have the same questions as the ASTI teachers ,one being,the predominant question of individual teacher protection which could be an issue in a (smaller) school that has only 1 or 2 teachers in a particular subject area. Is it any wonder this MEDIA SCARED Government can do what it likes when one Union offers to KISS ASS even before it is asked to do so.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Greensoup wrote: »

I’m still trying to get my head around the class ranking. You will have a lot of students around H4-H5 who are all similar ability wise and work wise. How do you rank them...why would you say this lad is ranked 14th and this one 19th in the class when there is nothing really between them.

When the Dept apply the curve won't the students from 14-19 get the same grade anyway? If your school has a history of a bunch of students getting H4-H5 then the Dept will see this historically and apply same?

Greensoup

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

When the Dept apply the curve won't the students from 14-19 get the same grade anyway? If your school has a history of a bunch of students getting H4-H5 then the Dept will see this historically and apply same?

Not necessarily so...if you have 10 H4s in your group and 6 of them are 60-62% marks. To suit Bell curve it might only give 8 H4s that means 2 of these 6 lads drop to H5 so it was the 2 you ranked lowest that drop.....even though there was 1% between them. This could be all crap by me so feel free to call it wrong.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Greensoup wrote: »

Not necessarily so...if you have 10 H4s in your group and 6 of them are 60-62% marks. To suit Bell curve it might only give 8 H4s that means 2 of these 6 lads drop to H5 so it was the 2 you ranked lowest that drop.....even though there was 1% between them. This could be all crap by me so feel free to call it wrong.

The bell curve cud see grades go up or down, yes. But that would happen if they sat the exam or were assessed.

The ranking list we give would probably carry more weight that estimated grade as they might just take the list and apply to the schools historical curve for the last five years.

Avery

Has anyone an idea what might happen with uncompleted projects? My group had projects due originally late April, then it was changed to May 15th and then finally moved to 'just prior to the exams'. They understandably stopped working on them given the long extension they were given. Now with the announcement yesterday, they are hardly to be expected to finish these?

Then what happens if they are unhappy with their predicted grade and wish to take the written exam at a later date...what happens with their project 20% component? I know this is also an issue for Orals/Practicals and so on.

Greensoup

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

The bell curve cud see grades go up or down, yes. But that would happen if they sat the exam or were assessed.

The ranking list we give would probably carry more weight that estimated grade as they might just take the list and apply to the schools historical curve for the last five years.

That’s what I was trying to say but badly:-) ranking is going to be very important for % marks that are close to grade differences like 62-60%etc.

jimmytwotimes 2013

If I was a parent I'd probably put my LC child's name down as a repeat. Gives access to teachers if they need to repeat.

Will the resit students count as former or current students come November when they're looking for help?

rainbowtrout

Ireland0101 wrote: »

Except this is the product of months of discussion. Let's be honest here, the department knew all along that holding state exams this year was just not going to happen. The political pressure forced the department to come clean about this perhaps sooner than anticipated. If you think the likes of FF had any bearing on this decision you are compleltely wrong.

You don't pull together a very solid plan for predictive grading overnight. Whilst not faultless, it's admirable much time has gone into this. This wasn't some impetuous decision.

Really? It looks like a cut and paste job from the UK version of predicted grades

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/883150/Summer_2020_grades_for_GCSE_AS_A_level_guidance_for_teachers_students_parents_UPDATED_05MAY2020_FINAL.pdf

Ireland0101 wrote: »

Except this is the product of months of discussion. Let's be honest here, the department knew all along that holding state exams this year was just not going to happen. The political pressure forced the department to come clean about this perhaps sooner than anticipated. If you think the likes of FF had any bearing on this decision you are compleltely wrong.

You don't pull together a very solid plan for predictive grading overnight. Whilst not faultless, it's admirable much time has gone into this. This wasn't some impetuous decision.

Honestly, who are you shilling for?

Millionaire only not

I believe the teachers will do a good job , but it is time to reform ths exam and stop having stressed out students - 40/50% from continuous assessment and rest from exam .
The work rate would be more consistent from students and the ones that don’t work there is a history to show it . This won’t be last outbreak of a deadly virus .

randylonghorn

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Honestly, who are you shilling for?

The ISSU.

Millionaire only not

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Really? It looks like a cut and paste job from the UK version of predicted grades

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/883150/Summer_2020_grades_for_GCSE_AS_A_level_guidance_for_teachers_students_parents_UPDATED_05MAY2020_FINAL.pdf



Honestly, who are you shilling for?

The flip side of that is if it’s good enough for them it’s good enough for us .

spurious

The bell curve is not applied on a per school basis. Is it being proposed that a school's results would mirror last year's? That really is daft.

rainbowtrout

Newbie20 wrote: »

Anyone know if students are still allowed to change level? I have a student that had been struggling all year, bone lazy, didn’t engage with the work online at all. He contacted me once to say that he would drop down. I told him to check with career guidance teacher first to make sure he wouldn’t be snookering himself in term of college. I never heard back from him after, not sure he followed through. He would definitely be best off dropping, no doubt about that but am I now in a position that I can’t say anything / make any recommendations. Or even if I was allowed to would it be too late anyway?

It's not in the document, so I asked my principal. He just got back to me and said no, but would check with the powers that be to confirm.

It will make a real difference to those who decided to drop to OL after their mocks, which is normal enough. If they are not allowed to change they will fail HL, but would have passed OL.

jimmytwotimes 2013

spurious wrote: »

The bell curve is not applied on a per school basis. Is it being proposed that a school's results would mirror last year's? That really is daft.

Last 3 years

spurious

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I believe the teachers will do a good job , but it is time to reform ths exam and stop having stressed out students - 40/50% from continuous assessment and rest from exam .
The work rate would be more consistent from students and the ones that don’t work there is a history to show it . This won’t be last outbreak of a deadly virus .

This already exists in the LCA, so it's not like there isn't a body of expertise for it.

spurious

spurious wrote: »

The bell curve is not applied on a per school basis. Is it being proposed that a school's results would mirror last year's? That really is daft.

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Last 3 years

Still daft.
Who thinks these things up?

jimmytwotimes 2013

spurious wrote: »

Still daft.
Who thinks these things up?

No idea, the current plan is vague at best

spurious

I am really beginning to wonder did whoever made these decisions consult the SEC at all.

randylonghorn

Millionaire only not wrote: »

The flip side of that is if it’s good enough for them it’s good enough for us .

So, you starting a campaign for Irexit, then?

The reality is that despite a well-established system for doing predictive grading (which we don't have) and years of experience (which we don't have), a recent academic report showed a 16% accuracy rate between predicted grades and actual grades achieved in end-of-year exams in the UK.

So is it really good enough for either country?

History Queen

The Dept have a list of FAQ on their website now: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d8920c-leaving-cert-2020/?referrer=/leavingcertificate/

Among my many concerns is the response to the following:

Q16. Does national standardisation mean that if I attend a school where students traditionally have higher performance levels, my mark is likely to be moved up by the Department? And if I attend a school where performance tends to be lower, my mark may be moved down?


Please see attached screenshot.... maybe I'm oversensitive but that reads as selling teachers out to me anyway, in otherwords if you are not treated fairly that's your teacher's fault.

rainbowtrout

History Queen wrote: »

The Dept have a list of FAQ on their website now: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d8920c-leaving-cert-2020/?referrer=/leavingcertificate/

Among my many concerns is the response to the following:

Q15. Does national standardisation mean that if I attend a school where students traditionally have higher performance levels, my mark is likely to be moved up by the Department? And if I attend a school where performance tends to be lower, my mark may be moved down?


Please see attached screenshot.... maybe I'm oversensitive but that reads as selling teachers out to me anyway, in otherwords if you are not treated fairly that's your teacher's fault.

That is such a heap of bollocks. "If your teacher gives you an accurate mark then you'll be grand". Who are the DES to determine if it is accurate. The teacher can't even say that for sure.

km79

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I believe the teachers will do a good job , but it is time to reform ths exam and stop having stressed out students - 40/50% from continuous assessment and rest from exam .
The work rate would be more consistent from students and the ones that don’t work there is a history to show it . This won’t be last outbreak of a deadly virus .

If anything I think the current situation holds the l c up I a better light
Maybe it is not the dinosaur some thought it was

Nobody can outside influence SEC terminal exams ......