714,000 on the dole and we wasnt to import workers to pick fruit & veg?

Pa ElGrande

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We re not in a depression, money creation is relatively easy, unfortunately many businesses are gonna fail

Depression is a lagging indicator, as are Covid deaths. We need to know if the recovery rate is improving (i.e. effective treatments).

Money is no good when the food is rotting in the fields and many businesses operate on slim margins, they need the cash flow to fund the next seasons operations or there is less production and higher consumer prices.

HalloweenJack

Deleted User wrote: »

No-one's mentioned the 2K travel ban?


Ok, so...

You have a choice of staff

80 4th year (and above) students, that have to be mtrained up. you have to accommodate them, feed them, but also adhere to min wage and the working time directive, and not to mention you'd better have a full child protection policy along with trained point of contacts for the under 18's.

Or

80 lads from Bulgaria that know what they're doing, that you pay and provide accommodation and food for.


Hmmmmm... I wonder

And this approach, when taken to extremes, is why the Western world has become so dependent on China. Go for the cheapest option and then you're completely exposed when the **** hits the fan.

machiavellianme

Deleted User wrote: »

No-one's mentioned the 2K travel ban?


Ok, so...

You have a choice of staff

80 4th year (and above) students, that have to be mtrained up. you have to accommodate them, feed them, but also adhere to min wage and the working time directive, and not to mention you'd better have a full child protection policy along with trained point of contacts for the under 18's.

Or

80 lads from Bulgaria that know what they're doing, that you pay and provide accommodation and food for.


Hmmmmm... I wonder

Have you ever picked fruit? I spent 5 years in secondary school working from late May till late July picking strawberries and raspberries for punnets and jam. It wasn't exactly rocket science. Here's a bucket, put the jam fruit in it and you get 1.20 for every full bucket or 8p for every punnet. None of what you mentioned applied. I'm not sure what training would've applied that common sense didn't already cover. Use the best fruit in punnets, the rest can jam.

paw patrol

machiavellianme wrote: »

Have you ever picked fruit? I spent 5 years in secondary school working from late May till late July picking strawberries and raspberries for punnets and jam. It wasn't exactly rocket science. Here's a bucket, put the jam fruit in it and you get 1.20 for every full bucket or 8p for every punnet. None of what you mentioned applied. I'm not sure what training would've applied that common sense didn't already cover. Use the best fruit in punnets, the rest can jam.

when was this? and who was it for?

plenty of health and safety now on the commercial operations. no teenage kids hired.

Please note , I said commercial operations not the local Fianna Gael stalwart with a few acres.

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Best of luck with trying to convince a teenager to do this work, you d be told to go fcuk yourself, we ve moved on from hard physical labour, very few want to do this, including myself, if you treatened a teenager with throwing them out of the house, you really would be told, go fcuk yourself, as they're too busy farting around on their phones, just like us adults. Get over it lads, we ve really moved on, life's too short

Funny, I know teenagers currently working on farms all over the country. One guy who was in agri college and was on work experience for the course, this was closed down due to virus so joined up with Farm Relief and now is back in the college working for them looking after their own farm......so the student has become the mast(so to speak :-) )


Yes he farts around on a phone as well but so does every adult.


If you constantly tell children they cant or wont be able to do anything, guess what, they wont do anything.

lawred2

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

I grow 12% of the food I consume every year. There will be plenty for me to harvest over the Summer. (assuming we are not due for biblical plagues this year as the locusts are already out in parts of the world :P )

Hmmm

How did you measure 12%?

Wibbs

HalloweenJack wrote: »

And this approach, when taken to extremes, is why the Western world has become so dependent on China. Go for the cheapest option and then you're completely exposed when the **** hits the fan.

Bingo. Too many office workers growing fat arses, too few people making things and doing jobs like this. When it's seen as the better option to fly in over a thousand people to pick bloody fruit. Jesus.

Never mind temporarily importing a load of people without quarantine whose health status you don't know in the middle of a pandemic. You couldn't make this level of idiocy up.

HalloweenJack

HalloweenJack wrote: »

And this approach, when taken to extremes, is why the Western world has become so dependent on China. Go for the cheapest option and then you're completely exposed when the **** hits the fan.

The sooner people realise that all EU citizens are equal in the workforce, the better. You were the one who brought China into this.

dubrov

Loads of ideas here for other people to do work

Wibbs

dubrov wrote: »

Loads of ideas here for other people to do work

My fruit picking days are kinda behind me, but I've done it. It's not rocket surgery FFS.

Shefwedfan

dubrov wrote: »

Loads of ideas here for other people to do work

I grew up picking fruit, or picking stones, so do whatever I could to make a few quid!!

hawkwing

Some nonsense written about saying the farmers should pay more...I picked fruit in England years ago,as someone else said you get x amount for picking a container--say 1€ for something that sells for 3€,and you might pick say 5 in an hour (made up figures)-so you get 5€ an hour.Do people think the picker should be earning €15 an hour (which the work deserves) and the farmer etc are then growing them for fun and to lose money??
We were complaining in England about the low wage and were told until the customer pays much more for the product you can never pay the pickers very much which makes sense. The only way they can operate here is by using the cheapest labour they can find which is what was happening in the UK 30yrs ago and also in Holland in the Tulip factories.
The same when you buy a chicken for €3 and complain it tastes like sh1te and why are the chicken factory workers paid poorly--because a chicken should really cost about €20 and not 10minutes of your weekly wage.
The consumer will not pay enough and so the workers down the line will not be paid properly either.

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Funny, I know teenagers currently working on farms all over the country. One guy who was in agri college and was on work experience for the course, this was closed down due to virus so joined up with Farm Relief and now is back in the college working for them looking after their own farm......so the student has become the mast(so to speak :-) )


Yes he farts around on a phone as well but so does every adult.


If you constantly tell children they cant or wont be able to do anything, guess what, they wont do anything.

i can guarantee you, the majority of teenagers are not working in the fields, and if you asked them to, they d tell you to go fcuk yourself. seriously, rock up to most teenagers, and ask them would they d be interested in doing farm work! this has little or nothing to do about their abilities, they simply have no interest, as would most adults. we have moved on from hard physical labour, we have introduced mechanisation into that world. for those that are interested in doing this work, or have to, we should just make sure they re paid reasonable well, and have good working conditions.

LeinsterDub

gozunda wrote: »

Looks like our overlords in Europe have beaten us on choosing to do their own thing as per usual. Germany relaxing its closed borders to bring in 1000s of migrant workers so they can have their harvests of 'white asparagus....

https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-04-12/Thousands-of-Romanian-farm-workers-head-to-Germany-despite-COVID-19-PBNWgayF4k/index.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/germany-lifts-ban-on-foreign-workers-to-salvage-harvest-1.4226277

As a kid and teenager- I picked strawberries, stones from potato fields and apples. Back breaking and underpaid at best

I somehow doubt that many of our current generation of teenagers would appreciate similar type work.

A bigger problem is that going forward Europe and much of the rest of the world faces the very real potential of food shortages with vegetable and fruit crops going unharvested without workers

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/13/france-has-avoided-a-covid-19-food-shortage-but-for-how-long

Germany are entitled to do what it wants with its borders as are we, what's the issue ?
Why would they appreciate it when you clearly didn't? Would you go to work doing back breaking labour for less than you'd get working the till in a shop?

HalloweenJack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The sooner people realise that all EU citizens are equal in the workforce, the better. You were the one who brought China into this.

I mention China as an extreme of where this approach can lead.

You want cheap products, the production process has to be cheap. Bring in people from poorer countries who are going to work for less and do nothing else while here before taking that money back home where it goes further than it would here. Obviously, its cheaper than hiring locals who have higher living expenses. It makes sense from a business point of view. I'm not arguingagainst that.

This is a shared problem. People want cheap products so the process needs to be cheaper. I understand that. I merely pointed out that relying on 'outsourcing' becomes problematic when the whole world is struggling and logistically your business model is impacted. Businesses should adapt their model to survive, not just stomp their feet and put their hands out like a spoilt child.

Its quite cheeky to ask people to 'dig deep', i.e. pay more, when we are all being affected by this. Personally, I have no sympathy for them if that's the case. This goes from football clubs laying off non-playing staff, to bailing out airlines to the IFA.

There are plenty of unemployed people out there - give them the jobs, even if you have to pay more, and I will pay more. It is only seasonal work, its not as if its a massive commitment on the businesses part.

Nesta2018

That's appalling. We have become addicted to cheap imported labour and easy welfare - people under 30 really don't grasp the fact that Irish people used to do every job imaginable before the late 90s, and it was fine. There's no reason on earth why they can't find people to pick fruit. It isn't cheaper in the long run to import people who will have to be housed, their kids educated, and who after a few short years will be entitled to the same welfare entitlements and full pension as Irish-born people. It's sheer gombeenism.

Granadino

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i can guarantee you, the majority of teenagers are not working in the fields, and if you asked them to, they d tell you to go fcuk yourself. seriously, rock up to most teenagers, and ask them would they d be interested in doing farm work! this has little or nothing to do about their abilities, they simply have no interest, as would most adults. we have moved on from hard physical labour, we have introduced mechanisation into that world. for those that are interested in doing this work, or have to, we should just make sure they re paid reasonable well, and have good working conditions.

They have no problem doing it in Australia to extend their visas.

Wanderer78

Granadino wrote: »

They have no problem doing it in Australia to extend their visas.

of course, because theyre having a better craic over there, and theyre right to, lifes too short

Salary Negotiator

I read an article about UK farmers needing to fly in pickers as well and it seemed to be because the only way the farming was profitable was was if they supply accommodation/food and charged the workers for it which brought the wage bill down.

Locals would need to be paid at least the minimum wage which is too high for the farmers to pay without clawing some of it back on food/accommodation fees.

Sammy2012

I heard that piece on the news. Friends of the mine used to work there 20 years ago. Summer jobs. The pay was minimal but it was good fun they said. Now its 10e for a large punnet of strawberries from there. I doubt whoever picks it gets anywhere near that. Obviously operations are much different now than they were 20years ago but I'd fully agree that now alof of younger people dont want to do that type of work now. I used to be brought to pick stones in the bog! The worst job ever.

SEPT 23 1989

The heroes who participate in this great patriotic food gathering exercise for the motherland will be rewarded with extra food rations and an extra kilometre exercise distance from their homes

pure.conya

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you constantly tell children they cant or wont be able to do anything, guess what, they wont do anything.

If you start telling your teenager what to do you'll hand tusla down on top of you

y0ssar1an22

i imagine you would earn less than the current €350/week covid unemployed payment, so that rules out a large chunk of the 714,000 unemployed. as for the rest, alot were unemployed previously and prob have no interest in seeking work.

pure.conya

HalloweenJack wrote: »

even if you have to pay more, and I will pay more

No you won't. Look after the high streets child labour factories collapsed in Bangladesh people were surveyed if they'd pay an extra 50p per item so that the next lot of kids would receive a slightly fairer wage, the answer was no and the price of your cheap socks jocks and tops in penneys/top shop stayed the same

pure.conya

Granadino wrote: »

They have no problem doing it in Australia to extend their visas.

Ireland is not and never will be Australia lol

maestroamado

There is very little farm manual work in this country anymore as most all is done now with machinery, the farmer has an attachment tool for everything.
A 16 year old who grew up on a farm can get a license for a big tractor and drive around all summer, why would he want to do manual work.
I think most of these people who come to do this work come from rural backgrounds where field work the norm, so for me it's about the attitude to the job.

HalloweenJack

pure.conya wrote: »

No you won't. Look after the high streets child labour factories collapsed in Bangladesh people were surveyed if they'd pay an extra 50p per item so that the next lot of kids would receive a slightly fairer wage, the answer was no and the price of your cheap socks jocks and tops in penneys/top shop stayed the same

Thats the root of the problem.

People want cheap things. You can't complain about how products are sourced if you refuse to pay more.

On the other hand, companies can't complain about not earning more when their business models are what encourage cheap products in the first place.

Ulysses Gaze

Nesta2018 wrote: »

That's appalling. We have become addicted to cheap imported labour and easy welfare - people under 30 really don't grasp the fact that Irish people used to do every job imaginable before the late 90s, and it was fine. There's no reason on earth why they can't find people to pick fruit. It isn't cheaper in the long run to import people who will have to be housed, their kids educated, and who after a few short years will be entitled to the same welfare entitlements and full pension as Irish-born people. It's sheer gombeenism.

The real problem is #tooposhtopick

suicide_circus

Why would we pick our own fruit and veg when we can exploit the poverty in other countries?

Germany did the same:

https://www.romania-insider.com/coronavirus-romanian-seasonal-workers-fly-germany

listermint

No one mentioned the OP picks only 12% of his yearly veg which is minuscule meaning they'd have loads of time on their hands.

When will they be signing up for this nation building exercise. ??