Human remains in Rathmines

1968

1968 wrote: »

...............

The bones are believed to be those of someone aged between five and 20 years old. .............

I thought the remains were thought to have been there for between five and 20 years?

Noseygit

ijohhj wrote: »

Whoever's theory it was can't be too smart, do they know how passports work?

Everyone knows how they work. Everyone knows how owing thousands out that you've gambled works.

Noseygit

Noseygit wrote: »

Everyone knows how they work. Everyone knows how owing thousands out that you've gambled works.

What's this now?
The Fitz had an ATM, they didn't give credit.

Dr Strange

Augeo wrote: »

I thought the remains were thought to have been there for between five and 20 years?

Yeah, IT worded it wrong or got it wrong. Other outlets reported it as having been there between five and twenty years which would make more sense.

Steviesol

I wonder who it is

Dravokivich

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

DNA testing and carbon dating testing should reveal more.

I didn't think carbon testing would be accurate for something relatively recent?

wakka12

1968 wrote: »

"Skeletal remains found in Rathmines last week will not be the subject of a postmortem until next Tuesday, gardaí have said.

The partial human remains were found on a common area on a site off the Lower Rathmines Road in Dublin on Thursday, April 9th as work was being carried out on the site.

No clothing remained on the skeletal remains and there had been no apparent effort to bury them.

A forensic anthropologist visited the site late last week to carry out inquiries, as did members of the Garda Technical Bureau. The remains were brought to Dublin City mortuary where they remain.

Efforts have been ongoing to identify the person through DNA testing. This is lengthy process as any DNA extracted needs to be cross-referenced with a long list of missing persons’ DNA. A Garda source said there is no guarantee the remains will ever be identified.

The bones are believed to be those of someone aged between five and 20 years old. Gardaí say the direction of the investigation will be dictated by the results of the postmortem. However, there is no guarantee the examination will reveal the cause of death, the same source said.

Gardaí are not clear if the person died and their body lay undiscovered at the location for a period or if the person died elsewhere and the bones were placed there.

The remains will be examined by the State Pathologist’s Office on Tuesday, April 21st. A Garda spokesman said an update on the investigation will likely follow.

A Department of Justice spokesman said when asked that the Covid-19 crisis is not causing a backlog in postmortem examinations.

According to the Coroners Society of Ireland most Covid-19 deaths do not require a postmortem“unless other circumstances are present and the law mandates an autopsy to be directed by the coroner”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/post-mortem-on-skeleton-remains-found-in-rathmines-due-to-take-place-next-week-1.4230634

The bones of a 20 year old would be very easily identifiable as different from a 5 year old, one will have body parts the size of somebody about 3 ft tall, the other will have body parts the size of somebody about twice that size

Yellow_Fern

wakka12 wrote: »

The bones of a 20 year old would be very easily identifiable as different from a 5 year old, one will have body parts the size of somebody about 3 ft tall, the other will have body parts the size of somebody about twice that size

Yes but in many be a stock response and maybe the bones are highly fragmented as is often the case.

Noseygit

Augeo wrote: »

What's this now?
The Fitz had an ATM, they didn't give credit.

He borrowed plenty of money and lost. No way of paying it back

Salthillprom

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Yes but in many be a stock response and maybe the bones are highly fragmented as is often the case.

Clearly, they are saying that the bones have been there for between 5 and 20 years. Not that they belong to either a 5 year old or 20 year old!

Suckit

Salthillprom wrote: »

Clearly, they are saying that the bones have been there for between 5 and 20 years. Not that they belong to either a 5 year old or 20 year old!

I would agree with you 100%. The Irish Times must have made a mistake here.


As the report clearly states:

The bones are believed to be those of someone aged between five and 20 years old. Gardaí say the direction of the investigation will be dictated by the results of the postmortem. However, there is no guarantee the examination will reveal the cause of death, the same source said

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/postmortem-on-skeletal-remains-found-in-rathmines-to-take-place-next-week-1.4230634

Unless a tall 5 year old and a small 20 year old girl..........? are similar builds?

Nunu

Author of article clearly made mistake because they say in black & white aged between 5 and 20 which is totally wrong. Already reported that remains there between 5 and 20 years.

ittakestwo

Clothes would not disintegrate after 20 years. So by the fact there was no clothes found looks like they were murdered somewhere else and dumped there.

Noseygit

Noseygit wrote: »

He borrowed plenty of money and lost. No way of paying it back

Borrowed in Ireland or Iceland?
From who?
Who reported that?

Ole tails from the Fitz?

Noseygit

Augeo wrote: »

Borrowed in Ireland or Iceland?
From who?
Who reported that?

Ole tails from the Fitz?

Borrowed at the tournament from someone that was working there. There is not supposed to be money changing hands but it does happen apparently. I've never been to one,I know nothing about them. But that is what i was told. He borrowed too much,lost and disappeared.

Noseygit

Noseygit wrote: »

Borrowed at the tournament from someone that was working there................

He left his hotel room without his passport, wallet or phone.
His fiancee was in the hotel.
His brother was one of 12 relatives who came to Dublin to search for the missing taxi driver who is a father of 4.

No one working in a casino/tournament would lend money to a customer, they see them losing fortunes every night ......... and also, you'd not go missing if you owed someone working in a casino a few quid either, the Fitz* wasn't staffed with Tony Soprano types.

Noseygit wrote: »

........But that is what i was told. He borrowed too much,lost and disappeared..............

Utter horsesh1t but if true an easy one for AGS to figure out, IMO.

*played in a poker tournament in the Bonnington Hotel in Whitehall, Dublin on the day he arrived and throughout that night. It is believed he lost in the region of €4,000 while playing.

ShatterAlan

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

It wouldnt be common knowledge but the city centres of old cities especially in Europe tend to be crawling with humans remains. There is an extraordinary amount of forgotten cemeteries in cities.

:eek:

1968

The remains were supposed to have been examined by the State Pathologist’s Office yesterday (Tuesday, April 21st). When should we hear some news?

noodler

1968 wrote: »

The remains were supposed to have been examined by the State Pathologist’s Office yesterday (Tuesday, April 21st). When should we hear some news?

I'm not sure it's public interest?

Sultan of Bling

1968 wrote:

The remains were supposed to have been examined by the State Pathologist’s Office yesterday (Tuesday, April 21st). When should we hear some news?

If it's one of the high profile disappeared they will let you know.

DarkJ

I hope it brings peace/closure to their family, whoever it turns out to be. RIP

Edgware

1968 wrote: »

The remains were supposed to have been examined by the State Pathologist’s Office yesterday (Tuesday, April 21st). When should we hear some news?

Dont call us, we'll call you

JP Liz V1

Augeo wrote: »

I thought the remains were thought to have been there for between five and 20 years?

Yes that makes more sense

1968

"Gardaí are still attempting to identify partial skeletal remains found in Rathmines, Dublin two weeks ago.

A postmortem was completed on the remains last Tuesday by the Office of the State Pathologist and it is understood that this did not point towards it being a homicide.

However, as only parts of the skeleton have been located, it has not been possible to establish a definitive cause of death.

“A full investigation will now be conducted by gardaí based in Rathmines with a view to identifying the deceased,” a Garda spokeswoman said.

DNA tests have been conducted on the remains and cross-referenced with missing persons’ profiles but this process is yet to turn up a match.

Sources warned that due to the scant information available, it is possible the remains might never be identified.

The partial human remains were found on a common area off the Lower Rathmines Road on April 9th while work was being carried out on the site. No clothing remained on the skeletal remains and there had been no apparent effort to bury them.

A forensic anthropologist visited the site to carry out inquiries, as did members of the Garda Technical Bureau. The remains were brought to Dublin City mortuary where they will remain until identified.

The bones are believed to be those of someone aged between five and 20 years . Gardaí are not clear if the person died and their body lay undiscovered at the location for a period or if the person died elsewhere and the bones were placed there."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-unable-to-link-remains-found-in-rathmines-to-missing-person-1.4238905

d-don

Remember that Roma ten age girl who disappeared she was abducted by a criminal or something

r93kaey5p2izun

d-don wrote: »

Remember that Roma ten age girl who disappeared she was abducted by a criminal or something

Her remains were found. Someone who helped bury her led the Gardai to them. Unfortunately the scumbag was acquitted. He was recently jailed for 6 years for a different crime though.


I see they are sticking with the "aged between 5 and 20" line, as opposed to the remains being there 5-20 years.

starbaby2003

Chandler Shapely Machinist wrote: »

Her remains were found. Someone who helped bury her led the Gardai to them. Unfortunately the scumbag was acquitted. He was recently jailed for 6 years for a different crime though.


I see they are sticking with the "aged between 5 and 20" line, as opposed to the remains being there 5-20 years.

Alan Wilson, although they say his sister actually shot her.
You would imagine a child would be on the missing persons lists !

Dr Strange

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Chandler Shapely Machinist wrote: »

I see they are sticking with the "aged between 5 and 20" line, as opposed to the remains being there 5-20 years.

Yep, they keep repeating a clearly misunderstood piece of information. Nothing new when it comes to media reporting.

eviltwin

I think it's so sad someone that young can go unclaimed. It really makes you wonder what kind of live this person had before they died

CtevenSrowder

Dr Strange wrote: »

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Yep, they keep repeating a clearly misunderstood piece of information. Nothing new when it comes to media reporting.

If only parts of the skeleton have been recovered it may be what has been said by the Gardai and state pathologist.

eviltwin

eviltwin wrote: »

I think it's so sad someone that young can go unclaimed. It really makes you wonder what kind of live this person had before they died

It might well not be a young person at all.......

Chandler Shapely Machinist wrote: »

Her remains were found. Someone who helped bury her led the Gardai to them. Unfortunately the scumbag was acquitted. He was recently jailed for 6 years for a different crime though.


I see they are sticking with the "aged between 5 and 20" line, as opposed to the remains being there 5-20 years.

The remains found could well be someone who is on a missing persons list but conclusive identification might be challenging.

Captain Snow

Any updates on this?

ShatterAlan

1968 wrote: »

"Gardaí are still attempting to identify partial skeletal remains found in Rathmines, Dublin two weeks ago.

A postmortem was completed on the remains last Tuesday by the Office of the State Pathologist and it is understood that this did not point towards it being a homicide.

However, as only parts of the skeleton have been located, it has not been possible to establish a definitive cause of death.

“A full investigation will now be conducted by gardaí based in Rathmines with a view to identifying the deceased,” a Garda spokeswoman said.

DNA tests have been conducted on the remains and cross-referenced with missing persons’ profiles but this process is yet to turn up a match.

Sources warned that due to the scant information available, it is possible the remains might never be identified.

The partial human remains were found on a common area off the Lower Rathmines Road on April 9th while work was being carried out on the site. No clothing remained on the skeletal remains and there had been no apparent effort to bury them.

A forensic anthropologist visited the site to carry out inquiries, as did members of the Garda Technical Bureau. The remains were brought to Dublin City mortuary where they will remain until identified.

The bones are believed to be those of someone aged between five and 20 years . Gardaí are not clear if the person died and their body lay undiscovered at the location for a period or if the person died elsewhere and the bones were placed there."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-unable-to-link-remains-found-in-rathmines-to-missing-person-1.4238905

What???


How can you not tell the difference between the bones of a 5 year-old child and a 20 year-old fully grown adult?

ShatterAlan

ShatterAlan wrote: »

What???


How can you not tell the difference between the bones of a 5 year-old child and a 20 year-old fully grown adult?

They misunderstood. It was originally stated that the remains were believed to be there for between 5 and 20 years. Not that the age was believed to be between 5 and 20 years.

BoroMan32

I hope that they can discover who this poor soul was.

Thankfully with the constant advances in DNA technology more and more cases of unidentified remains can start to be 'solved' so to speak. There's one example of a recent identification outlined in the story in the link below.

https://connachttribune.ie/body-on-the-beach-identified-18-years-on-198/


And for anyone with an interest in genetic genealogy, the DNA Doe project have been using it to identify so called John and Jane Does in the states.

https://dnadoeproject.org/

Steviesol

Interesting

Another recent case with a conclusive outcome. Investigators had a fair bit more to go on than the present one.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/uncategorized/gardai-confirm-identity-of-body-discovered-in-rusheen-woods-bay-in-barna-in-2014/

People can just slip through the cracks completely, sadly.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/06/22/lissenfield-remains

“The remains have now been positively identified. Gardaí are continuing in attempts to contact family members. No further information is available at this time.”

Day Lewin

Guesswork is futile at this stage, and I wouldn't wish to cause distress to the family of a missing person.

I can safely hazard, though, that the very first checks the Gárdaí would run, were probably the most high-profile ones that have been in the media.

I can only think of one missing child from the Dublin area, a very famous case. And there was a lady from Terenure went missing during the 90's.

But you know, if I can immediately think of them, the cops most certainly can too. I bet they were the first two IDs to be ruled out.

This DNA is a wonderful thing, it is amazing. So many mysteries will be solved this way. Peace for those who lost their loved ones.

Sultan of Bling

Sad that no blood relatives survived to find out the truth.

suicide_circus

May he rest in peace.

Jimbob1977

Rest in peace.

Has a cause of death been established?

Be right back

What a sad end to his life. At least he can be buried with dignity now.

Dr Strange

A good estimate though for the time he’s been dead. So the 5 to 20 years covered that period well and would most likely have helped to narrow done the potential candidates for DNA testing.

RIP Stephen Corrigan and also his mum who had the foresight to provide a DNA sample.

dd973

Sounds like some poor bloke who had enough judging by the IT report, may he rest in peace.

Elmer Blooker

sugarman wrote: »

I'm sure they'd have mentioned it if they did, Id imagine it would be very difficult with just skeletal remains.

As per the Crimecall appeal a few years back, it mentions he was known to have been a rough sleeper with mental health issues.

Given it was November when he went missing, very possible he just passed away while sleeping rough like so many do each winter.

RTE saying he went missing in 2010 and November that year was unusually cold with snowfall so exposure is a likely cause of death possibly?

hatrickpatrick

I still don't quite understand how a body could have been lying unburied in a very public place and not discovered before now, you'd imagine that just from weather events, kids playing, animals disturbing the area etc that someone would have stumbled upon him in nearly ten years. Does anyone have any photos of the exact area he was found? I mean how covered or hidden was the location, that a body could lie undisturbed and undiscovered for this length of time?

hatrickpatrick

sugarman wrote: »

It wasnt a very public area. It was off in a small, quiet, private apartment complex in an overgrown area of evergreen trees. It was only discovered when the trees were being pruned this year.

Heres the area before and here it is after.

I still find it very strange, but thanks for the explanation! I'm looking at these trees now in the photo and if I'd been a kid growing up in that complex, I wouldn't have been able to be kept away from messing around in them... An amazing happenstance that he lay undiscovered for so many years

Hangdogroad

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I still find it very strange, but thanks for the explanation! I'm looking at these trees now in the photo and if I'd been a kid growing up in that complex, I wouldn't have been able to be kept away from messing around in them... An amazing happenstance that he lay undiscovered for so many years

Kids probably don't spend quite so much time playing outdoors these days, and the residents of apartment complexes like these I'd say wouldn't be very close knit (open to correction). Still odd though but not inexplicable.

Neyite

The denseness of evergreens would also be helpful to a homeless person sheltering from the weather.

I remember walking past a bunch of evergreen trees and it was absolutely webbing rain, we were soaked through, and we heard snoring from the trees. At the base, it was basically fully dry and there was a homeless man fast asleep oblivious to the rain.