John Waters & Gemma O'Doherty to challenge lockdown in the high Court

kowloon

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Great to see the team getting all nice and close together for the family photo.

https://twitter.com/MaryCarolanIT/status/1252619283689062406?s=19

Hope they didn't catch anything from the 5g mast though

This seems relevant here as well.

Shefwedfan

When they next time in court?

Must buy myself a couple of cheap Irish flags and stand outside selling them, make a fortune I would

Balf

threeball wrote: »

Who pays for this case. Not these two loopers anyway and who picks up costs when they're not successful?

The Courts decide that at the end of the process..

As the applicants are representing themselves, I take it they have no substantial costs.

The Stats does have a legal team, which will entail cost. Usually, if the Courts recognise a public interest in the matter being raised, they award costs against the State, even if the case is lost.

And their is a principle here, about the limits of State authority. Does the State have the right to prohibit perfectly healthy people from doing stuff together that presents no immediate risk? I'm not aware of the Courts ever saying 'there is a public interest at stake in this case, but you are loopers so screw you'.

But who knows.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Balf wrote: »

The Courts decide that at the end of the process..

As the applicants are representing themselves, I take it they have no substantial costs.

The Stats does have a legal team, which will entail cost. Usually, if the Courts recognise a public interest in the matter being raised, they award costs against the State, even if the case is lost.

And their is a principle here, about the limits of State authority. Does the State have the right to prohibit perfectly healthy people from doing stuff together that presents no immediate risk? I'm not aware of the Courts ever saying 'there is a public interest at stake in this case, but you are loopers so screw you'.

But who knows.

That's true re costs and not only that, the Court has the power to award costs even if an applicant loses a JR case if the case is deemed sufficiently public interest. I think the Debenhams debacle proves that it is.

If anyone's actually bothered to read the detailed Court report from yesterday as opposed to just shouting "fruit loops" (yawn) the Judge acknowledged the applicants have raised issues on aspects of the legislation that will require serious examination.

plodder

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I actually know this legislation very well as a consequence of work.

The Debenhams protest could be broken up by Gardai on the grounds that it was a convened event. Convened events even of two people not of the same household (even a hook up) are prohibited under the new laws.

The attendees at Gemma's case may well not have been essential travel in their own individual way but it is a sitting of the Court to which the public still has access under the Constitution and that is superior to statute law. So Gardai would be on much dodgier ground trying to police persons circulating within the Four Courts attempting to view a case in session. It appears they were not permitted access on public health grounds but not harassed nor ejected from the building.

I doubt this is true. The judge didn't let any of these people into the court room. So much for their "constitutional roights" being superior to statute law. Which isn't surprising as lots of cases are in-camera with nobody from the public allowed in.

blueythebear

plodder wrote: »

I doubt this is true. The judge didn't let any of these people into the court room. So much for their "constitutional roights" being superior to statute law. Which isn't surprising as lots of cases are in-camera with nobody from the public allowed in.

You dont have a personal right to go into any courtroom and view the proceedings. The constitution says thatbjustice will be carried out in public. The judge excluded supporters due to the need to socially distance in the courtroom. The fact that journalists were present ensured that justice was carried out in public.

Shefwedfan

The media and us create people like this. Gemma is an attention seeker. She is one of those "look at me look at me" types.

It is fairly simple, tell the main news/media etc to ignore her. The government should step in and say to media, right ust ignore her. Free speech and all that but in reality it is hate speech. So any of you post an article in the press/website etc you have to give 10k to a charity.

Simple as that.

Once she hasnt the media running after her it will soon get boring, especially when she has to mix with the great unwashed.

She had a meeting recently and at most 50 people showed up and you could see the disdain she had for these people in the photo. Same against yesterday, it was like someone went into the biggest sh*thole in Dublin, threw everyone a tenner and asked them if they would stand around the courts. Even in the pictures you can see she doesnt want to get too close to them.

She is not an idiot, that is clear. Similar to the one in UK, can't remember her name. They want attention, she has no coherent pattern to her view points. It just what will get me some attention this week.

If they turned around tomorrow and said lockdown is over, she would be standing tomorrow in high court saying she wants a lockdown.

Case in point, she drove up to a Garda checkpoint, Garda laughed and waved her on, she was more angry because she hadn't started a row than if the Garda actually stopped her. It was just a big show......

RocketRaccoon

dan1895 wrote: »

If anyone is wondering what type of people these are that were in the four courts yesterday, check out the salute the woman with the crutch is doing.

Would the lad behind her not be in a high risk category?

podgeandrodge

dan1895 wrote: »

If anyone is wondering what type of people these are that were in the four courts yesterday, check out the salute the woman with the crutch is doing.

They are a slightly mad looking bunch.

osarusan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When they next time in court?

Must buy myself a couple of cheap Irish flags and stand outside selling them, make a fortune I would

"Get yer hats scarves and badgiz."

Shefwedfan

osarusan wrote: »

"Get yer hats scarves and badgiz."

"Get yer flags and Bunreacht na nEireannzzzzzz" :P

Widdensushi

the one with the crutch is leaning on it heavily in one photo and standing tall with it hanging off her arm taking a photo of the rest in another.

plodder

Lots of attention seekers do things that have potentially serious consequences; this could be one of them.

Personally, I think firing the "hate speech" cannon at them will only embolden them and is a bit sinister frankly. As it is, the case is adjourned for two weeks, so there will be nothing reported on it until then.

Shefwedfan

Widdensushi wrote: »

the one with the crutch is leaning on it heavily in one photo and standing tall with it hanging off her arm taking a photo of the rest in another.

That because she is on the old disability......can't be seen without the crutch in public or the social will take the money off the waster

Shefwedfan

plodder wrote: »

Lots of attention seekers do things that have potentially serious consequences; this could be one of them.

Personally, I think firing the "hate speech" cannon at them will only embolden them and is a bit sinister frankly. As it is, the case is adjourned for two weeks, so there will be nothing reported on it until then.

How? she is banging this drum now for how long?


As mentioned she had a meeting and less than 50 people showed up


Did they have 100 yesterday? not a hope.....she will soon lose interest once a TV camera is not pointed at her

Savecoronabeer

You only need to look at the reports of a spike in covid cases after rallies were held in various states across the US to see that the lockdown is definitely needed.

Shefwedfan

Savecoronabeer wrote: »

You only need to look at the reports of a spike in covid cases after rallies were held in various states across the US to see that the lockdown is definitely needed.

It wouldnt be the worst thing to happen if an outbreak happened in that group!!!

reg114

Where are Waters and O Doherty getting their money from ? Not merely to live from day to day but surely going to the high court costs bigtime , who is funding their tinfoilhattery?

It also has to be said the state have indulged her for far too long. Surely we have the legislation to convict her of hate speech and put manners on her with either community service or a custodial sentence. While the level of support her and her ilk is quite small at the moment, if their batsh$tcraziness and xenophobia go unchecked it will gather momentum and empower those who are disaffected, as it has in the States.

Im all for hearing opposing views but when you empower bigots and conspiracy theorists by giving them a platform through inaction, you are treading on thin ground. It was deeply offensive for the authorities to have allowed O Doherty to address her rabble within the confines of the Four courts yesterday like she was addressing a political rally. What message does it send that these idiots can swan in to one of the highest courts in the land and spout such utter tripe meanwhile flouting public health regulations we are all subject to in a pandemic.

There is clearly a psychiatric element at play here. O Doherty exhibits very obvious signs of paranoia, sociopathy and megalomania, throw in obsessive compulsiveness and you are looking at the full gamut psychological neuroses. As for her followers, each of them I think you would find are a tad damaged, disaffected and looking to 'belong' to some movement who aids them in blaming someone else for their woes. This is all textbook stuff, these personalty traits and their motivation is very boring and predictable but dangerous in the long run if not held in check.

Widdensushi

making a martyr of her would only feed the hatred

Shefwedfan

Widdensushi wrote: »

making a martyr of her would only feed the hatred

Getting a contagious virus and dying would hardly make gher a martyr.....thats just bad luck :P

Widdensushi

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Getting a contagious virus and dying would hardly make gher a martyr.....thats just bad luck :P

answer was meant for reg,conviction of hate crimes would only drive her on

Shefwedfan

Widdensushi wrote: »

answer was meant for reg,conviction of hate crimes would only drive her on

Oh I wouldnt convict the clown....


Better would be to either move her in with her mates in the North side.



Or move them all over so they are her neighbours!!!


Let see how long she lasts then

plodder

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How? she is banging this drum now for how long?


As mentioned she had a meeting and less than 50 people showed up


Did they have 100 yesterday? not a hope.....she will soon lose interest once a TV camera is not pointed at her

Not sure how serious you were really, but if you were, the price of free speech and democracy is having to put up with this nonsense. So that is what we should do imo.

Also, you don't need money to start a case like this in the High Court. If they get some big law firm on board to argue their case, then that's the time to ask who is funding them.

Shefwedfan

plodder wrote: »

Not sure how serious you were really, but if you were, the price of free speech and democracy is having to put up with this nonsense. So that is what we should do imo.

Also, you don't need money to start a case like this in the High Court. If they get some big law firm on board to argue their case, then that's the time to ask who is funding them.

Have I said to stop her freedom of speech?


I just said to not report in the media about it, that is not stopping her freedom. It just means she isn't getting the attention she clearly requires. Of course she is making money out of it, just look at the one with the crutch and the first thing on her twitter page is a paypal account to pay her


What I am saying is Gemma is not an idiot like some of the reason of them, she spotted a gap in the market and went after it, all with the knowledge she would get some money. If she is not in the news and nobody is interested she will move onto the next thing to make money


I bet if you met her in public she would laugh off this bulls**t, like most of these people do. Again look at the one in UK for reference.


Its a stretch, but Eddie Jones, the england rugby coach, so he says stuff because it pi**es people off and it keeps him in the press. Gemma cant coach rugby so this is her version.

growleaves

If anyone is wondering what type of people these are that were in the four courts yesterday, check out the salute the woman with the crutch is doing.

That isn't any kind of salute - she has an open palm.

growleaves

Lots of attention seekers do things that have potentially serious consequences; this could be one of them.

Is testing the constitutionality of laws via courts now considered a public danger?

growleaves

Interesting that Gemma O'D doesn't consider the high court to be party to any conspiracy

Annasopra

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

That's true re costs and not only that, the Court has the power to award costs even if an applicant loses a JR case if the case is deemed sufficiently public interest. I think the Debenhams debacle proves that it is.

If anyone's actually bothered to read the detailed Court report from yesterday as opposed to just shouting "fruit loops" (yawn) the Judge acknowledged the applicants have raised issues on aspects of the legislation that will require serious examination.

Ah look, there ptobably are seriois issues but like speaking outaide the Courts Gemma started ranting outside the Courts to say they are taking this case to take paedophiles off the streets. Gemma and John are using the case to rile up absolute crazed conspiracy nutjobs.

Seth Brundle

growleaves wrote: »

That isn't any kind of salute - she has an open palm.

I'm not saying that she was sauting but a salute can be open palmed...

Seth Brundle

growleaves wrote: »

Interesting that Gemma O'D doesn't consider the high court to be party to any conspiracy

Betcha she will think that way if she loses.

The Nal

It wasn't a salute. Shes too thick to know what that is.

She has a paypal link on her twitter bio for some reason. Proper grifter. Imagine giving her money?! The poor people who fall for this shít.

freak scence

growleaves wrote: »

That isn't any kind of salute - she has an open palm.

should see her tweets bring your trycolour , bunch of mongs

growleaves

I'm not saying that she was sauting but a salute can be open palmed...

Her palm is facing upwards. It is nothing like a military salute of any kind.

I've been following online political debates for years. Anyone who is photographed raising their arm for any reason faces lame accusations of being a secret fascist and I've seen dozens of people, from fringe politicians to mainstream politicians, accused of it.

RocketRaccoon

Has anyone got a clear photo of the moron in the wheelchair with a mask on from yesterday?

seamus

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ah look, there ptobably are seriois issues but like speaking outaide the Courts Gemma started ranting outside the Courts to say they are taking this case to take paedophiles off the streets. Gemma and John are using the case to rile up absolute crazed conspiracy nutjobs.

This is it.

She has found a niche that is effectively unlimited in terms of explotation; people for whom there is no limit to nonsense, no such thing as hypocrisy, an endless willingness to believe so long as they can be a victim.

It's not about whether she considers the supreme court to have any authority. The outcome is irrelevant, win or lose she will use it to justify her position and the people who follow her will support it.

There's a lot of whining online about the Gardai not doing anything here. Claiming that the jailing of another man while ignoring this lot is proof of embedded racism.

The reality is that this crew wanted the Gardai to intervene. Their goal here is to provoke, to justify their victimhood. The Gardai need to find a balance in protecting the public interest. If they arrest these spanners, how many supporters will they gain? If they leave them alone, their ability to rally is limited.

The case has been adjourned now for a couple of weeks, nobody has been arrested. These idiots have nothing to talk about. They haven't won or lost, and they haven't been victimised by state oppression.

On a social level, this is about the best outcome there can be for now.

JohnnyFlash

podgeandrodge wrote: »

They are a slightly mad looking bunch.

Was there a sudden drop off in Journal.ie comments yesterday while this was taking place?

Merry Prankster

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

One of the daftest things I've seen of her is the way she goes at the people in this shop for not selling pork. Just being flat out derogatory here

https://twitter.com/Ireunderworld/status/1249794142395342855

I can't actually believe this. Apart from the insensitivity and the anti-Muslim overtones, it's the hypocrisy of this that is particularly galling. The right-wing conspiracy types get so exercised about perceived infringements of free speech and personal liberty, yet here's O'Doherty deciding what someone can and cannot sell on their own premises.

They rail against the 'libtards' for denying freedoms, yet it is clear that many from the conspiracy theory ecosphere have authoritarian personalities, and their conception of 'freedom' is both narrow and oppressive.

The truly frightening thing is that such thinking, which helps empower tyrants around the world, is becoming ever more pervasive.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Interesting that Gemma O'D doesn't consider the high court to be party to any conspiracy

She likely does. Guarantee you when this fails, she'll say it was a conspiracy.

gmisk

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Was there a sudden drop off in Journal.ie comments yesterday while this was taking place?

Christ what a collection of people...
Sideshow Bob at the front lol.
I thought there was a hundred at it? Where are the rest of them.

You think her and john waters would take the hint given their election results.

The video of her giving out in the RDS counting centre about the gardai getting LARGE pizzas, and that the pictures of the dogs were laughing at her was a highlight!

krissovo

podgeandrodge wrote: »

They are a slightly mad looking bunch.

Oh feck, just noticed that my cousin is in the crowd. He unfriended me and my father in law last week after we replied to nonsense conspiracy post. The last few years he has been slowly declining.

Shefwedfan

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

One of the daftest things I've seen of her is the way she goes at the people in this shop for not selling pork. Just being flat out derogatory here

https://twitter.com/Ireunderworld/status/1249794142395342855

She actually made an idiot of herself with the rashers and sausages. She asked the question and the guy pointed that they are over in the other fridge.....then she remembered it was pork she was after.....she couldn't even get that right

Problem is more and more people are veggies so its a stupid video.....


To get attention soon she will be on the vegan trip to keep herself relevant

lawrencesummers

krissovo wrote: »

Oh feck, just noticed that my cousin is in the crowd. He unfriended me and my father in law last week after we replied to nonsense conspiracy post. The last few years he has been slowly declining.

saved you the hassle so

Shefwedfan

If you remove the flags, it kind of looks like a wedding photo, you know the one they get before everyone gets hammered at the reception

Just a very scruffy wedding

ricero

That picture is like a real life picture of the beano comic characters

Merry Prankster

Merry Prankster wrote: »

I can't actually believe this. Apart from the insensitivity and the anti-Muslim overtones, it's the hypocrisy of this that is particularly galling. The right-wing conspiracy types get so exercised about perceived infringements of free speech and personal liberty, yet here's O'Doherty deciding what someone can and cannot sell on their own premises.

They rail against the 'libtards' for denying freedoms, yet it is clear that many from the conspiracy theory ecosphere have authoritarian personalities, and their conception of 'freedom' is both narrow and oppressive.

The truly frightening thing is that such thinking, which helps empower tyrants around the world, is becoming ever more pervasive.

Right wing? I would have said that the majority of protesters that talk about freedom of speech and personal liberty in their rants are left wing, or at least claim to be.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

That's true re costs and not only that, the Court has the power to award costs even if an applicant loses a JR case if the case is deemed sufficiently public interest. I think the Debenhams debacle proves that it is.

If anyone's actually bothered to read the detailed Court report from yesterday as opposed to just shouting "fruit loops" (yawn) the Judge acknowledged the applicants have raised issues on aspects of the legislation that will require serious examination.

Hold up, the judge hasn't made any claims about the challenge. He actually dismissed a number of their challenges. All he said was they have raised QUESTIONS on the legislation that require consideration. Put it another way, some of their questions are real questions. Whether those questions are accurate or even genuine regarding this actual legislation hasn't been considered yet.

Annasopra

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Right wing? I would have said that the majority of protesters that talk about freedom of speech and personal liberty in their rants are left wing, or at least claim to be.

:pac::pac::pac:

Ah come on now - these guys are all racists, homophobes, islamophobes, pro life, hardcore conservative catholics, anti marxists and anti socialists

They talk a nice talk about freedom of speech and personal liberty but in reality they are authoritarians who want the gardai, government and media controlled in their worldview only.

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:

Ah come on now - these guys are all racists, homophobes, islamophobes, pro life, hardcore conservative catholics, anti marxists and anti socialists

They talk a nice talk about freedom of speech and personal liberty but in reality they are authoritarians who want the gardai, government and media controlled in their worldview only.

What guys? Who are we specifucally looking at? And why are you now bringing in other unhealthy opinions into it that were not mentioned by either myself or the person I quoted?

I referred to those that shout a lot about freedom of speech and personal freedom. No other aspects. Personal freedom is a prime example, That's pro choice not pro life argument. Never heard a pro life rally shouting about personal freedom of their own bodies. Have you?

we only taking about Gemma? Then I would say it's a mix of left and right, jumpers who just like hearing what is good for them and outsight nutters who don't really follow a political path

Merry Prankster

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What guys? Who are we specifucally looking at? And why are you now bringing in other unhealthy opinions into it?

I referred to those that shout a lot about freedom of speech and personal freedom. No other aspects. Personal freedom is a prime example, That's pro choice not pro life argument. Never heard a pro life rally shouting about personal freedom of their own bodies. Have you?

we only taking about Gemma? Then I would say it's a mix of left and right, jumpers who just like hearing what is good for them and outsight nutters who don't really follow a political path

I know a number of these types, most claim to be apolitical (or, occasionally, libertarian), yet ALL of them have views that align with the right and denigrate the left. They hate 'social justice warriors,' (the use of this term is a dead giveaway), welfare programmes, feminism, immigration, mainstream media (yet trust RT!!!), arts and humanities degrees. They also have a weird obsession with supposed paedophile rings.

They disparage the 'sheeple' who blindly swallow the lies of the MSM, yet they peddle unhinged nonsense that generally serves to undermine trust in western politics, institutions and media. Which coincidentally serves the interests of someone like Putin. Hey, this conspiracy lark is fun after all!

Merry Prankster

Merry Prankster wrote: »

I know a number of these types, most claim to be apolitical (or, occasionally, libertarian), yet ALL of them have views that align with the right and denigrate the left. They hate 'social justice warriors,' (the use of this term is a dead giveaway), welfare programmes, feminism, immigration, mainstream media (yet trust RT!!!), arts and humanities degrees. They also have a weird obsession with supposed paedophile rings.

They disparage the 'sheeple' who blindly swallow the lies of the MSM, yet they peddle unhinged nonsense that generally serves to undermine trust in western politics, institutions and media. Which coincidentally serves the interests of someone like Putin. Hey, this conspiracy lark is fun after all!

And yet they claim to be left. That was my point