Tottenham Hotspur Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2024/25

joeguevara

Ok, the most significant spurs signing was made yesterday and no mention here. Trevor Birch has left Swansea to join a newly formed spurs board as director of football operations. The guy was a mid range footballer who played for Liverpool.

However most significantly since retiring as a player he became a chartered accountant, practicing with Ernst and Young. Was CEO of Chelsea who brokered their sale to Abrahamovic.

Most clubs he has been with have been sold or merged or major cost reduction. So maybe a positive for some as it could be an indcator of sale. Doesn’t bode well for investment now.

Kiith

League cup can be sacrificed, but there's absolutely no way we should do anything but aim to win the Europa League. It's a guaranteed way into the Champions League (Pot 1 no less), and the PL will not be an easy ask this year. Not saying the EL is easy either, but it's probably easier then a top 4 finish this year.

MrKingsley

Kiith wrote: »

League cup can be sacrificed, but there's absolutely no way we should do anything but aim to win the Europa League. It's a guaranteed way into the Champions League (Pot 1 no less), and the PL will not be an easy ask this year. Not saying the EL is easy either, but it's probably easier then a top 4 finish this year.

I agree that we should be trying to win it. But if we cannot rest 4/5 first teamers and qualify for it then we have a lot bigger problems

joeguevara

MrKingsley wrote: »

I agree that we should be trying to win it. But if we cannot rest 4/5 first teamers and qualify for it then we have a lot bigger problems

We have 8 games in 18 days with three uefa matches and three PL matches. Interspersed are league cup matches. To me the main issue is by resting first team players we go from a great team to a mediocre team. Also, by losing a uefa cup match we are out, but losing a pl match or drawing isn’t the end of the world.

So. I’d prefer for these three qualifiers we go all out and ensure qualification. Rather than resting players and hoping junior members have what it takes.

Loads of posts mentioning uefa being a long competition, but it will be fairly short if we lose our first match. Qualify for a European competition with CL qualification and a major trophy should be our Immediate goal. Not risking an early exit.

MrKingsley

joeguevara wrote: »

We have 8 games in 18 days with three uefa matches and three PL matches. Interspersed are league cup matches. To me the main issue is by resting first team players we go from a great team to a mediocre team. Also, by losing a uefa cup match we are out, but losing a pl match or drawing isn’t the end of the world.

So. I’d prefer for these three qualifiers we go all out and ensure qualification. Rather than resting players and hoping junior members have what it takes.

Loads of posts mentioning uefa being a long competition, but it will be fairly short if we lose our first match. Qualify for a European competition with CL qualification and a major trophy should be our Immediate goal. Not risking an early exit.

If we cannot go to Bulgaria and maybe then romania and win with a team such as........

Hart

Aurier Dier Sanchez Davies

Winks Sissoko

Lamella Alli Sessengnon

Lucas

Then we have absolutely no right being in the competition.

Im not saying to put out juniors in the Europa but definitely take the opportunity to rest 4/5 starters each qualifying match we have

joeguevara

MrKingsley wrote: »

If we cannot go to Bulgaria and maybe then romania and win with a team such as........

Hart

Aurier Dier Sanchez Davies

Winks Sissoko

Lamella Alli Sessengnon

Lucas

Then we have absolutely no right being in the competition.

Im not saying to put out juniors in the Europa but definitely take the opportunity to rest 4/5 starters each qualifying match we have

Each match is a final. Why risk it. Beat each team off the park. It’s not as if we can gamble and regret later. If we lose any of them we are out immediately.

joeguevara

And actually, what is the need to rest. We need to get our first 11 game time as they haven’t honestly played that much. If we need to rest professional footballers at start of season then that’s a bigger issue.

Dublin Spur

this is an excellent piece on our failings as a club:

https://worldofhotspur.com/to-dare-is-too-dear-2/

It tells me I was right in everything I’ve thought for years, such as:

1. THFC is a very wealthy club
2. We have one of the lowest net spends in the PL
3. Our wages/turnover is also one of the lowest
4. Despite constantly telling us we can’t afford to buy, Levy made himself the highest paid exec in the PL
5. Every club has suffered during the pandemic; only Levy is making an issue of it.

To summarise: we are the most profitable club in the PL and Levy is gaslighting the fans with his claims of impoverishment.

What do you think?

joeguevara

Dublin Spur wrote: »

this is an excellent piece on our failings as a club:

https://worldofhotspur.com/to-dare-is-too-dear-2/

It tells me I was right in everything I’ve thought for years, such as:

1. THFC is a very wealthy club
2. We have one of the lowest net spends in the PL
3. Our wages/turnover is also one of the lowest
4. Despite constantly telling us we can’t afford to buy, Levy made himself the highest paid exec in the PL
5. Every club has suffered during the pandemic; only Levy is making an issue of it.

To summarise: we are the most profitable club in the PL and Levy is gaslighting the fans with his claims of impoverishment.

What do you think?

A couple of thoughts.

It is strange that the article goes through the financials, profits, ebitda, profits ets with a fine tooth comb without stating that the reason for same is because of levy.

It is also strange to say we have t spent on players. We have spent huge amounts on players but our net spend is low because of sales. Unfortunately the players bought soldado, Paulinho, ndombele, to name a few were flops but that isn’t levys fault.

Also, what is success based on. If it’s cups, fcuck of course 1 in 20 years is a miserable return. But if it’s based on continuous CL qualification, appearing in CL final and a top 4 team (alas not last year) we are definitely successful.

The article to me is pure negative without looking at the team we have become.

MrKingsley

joeguevara wrote: »

And actually, what is the need to rest. We need to get our first 11 game time as they haven’t honestly played that much. If we need to rest professional footballers at start of season then that’s a bigger issue.

Do think after the summer and “break” that they got they would be ok playing 6 games in 18 days?

That would be madness. The last thing we need is Kane/Son/Gio picking up a needless injury playing on a bog out in Bulgaria

golfball37

Dublin Spur wrote: »

this is an excellent piece on our failings as a club:

https://worldofhotspur.com/to-dare-is-too-dear-2/

It tells me I was right in everything I’ve thought for years, such as:

1. THFC is a very wealthy club
2. We have one of the lowest net spends in the PL
3. Our wages/turnover is also one of the lowest
4. Despite constantly telling us we can’t afford to buy, Levy made himself the highest paid exec in the PL
5. Every club has suffered during the pandemic; only Levy is making an issue of it.

To summarise: we are the most profitable club in the PL and Levy is gaslighting the fans with his claims of impoverishment.

What do you think?

Just confirms along with the hiring of Birch what we’ve known all along. Joe Louis is only interested in a sale with a massive profit. It’s why Levy pushed so hard for the Olympic stadium all those years ago.
I just wish he’d be honest and say we won’t spend money as we want to maximize as much as we can from this asset when we dispose of it.

joeguevara

MrKingsley wrote: »

Do think after the summer and “break” that they got they would be ok playing 6 games in 18 days?

That would be madness. The last thing we need is Kane/Son/Gio picking up a needless injury playing on a bog out in Bulgaria

Its worse than 6 games in 18 days. It’s 8;in 18 if you include league cup.

Honestly I think the most important thing is winning the 3 European games. Without our key players we struggle. Obviously injuries are a concern but gambling on a competition that could be our only chance for CL qualification is too risky.

MrKingsley

joeguevara wrote: »

Its worse than 6 games in 18 days. It’s 8;in 18 if you include league cup.

Honestly I think the most important thing is winning the 3 European games. Without our key players we struggle. Obviously injuries are a concern but gambling on a competition that could be our only chance for CL qualification is too risky.

Ah can we not at least agree on the League Cup fixtures being utterly meaningless in the bigger scheme of things Joe??

The Europa is important yes but for me the PL games are most important at the minute

To get knocked out of Europe would be very bad (but would also take a load of games out of the fixture list later on).

To start slow in the league would be even worse given our opening fixtures

abff

Where did 8 matches in 18 days come from? It’s actually 8 matches in 17 days. There’s only 30 days in September.

DeanAustin

Dublin Spur wrote: »

this is an excellent piece on our failings as a club:

https://worldofhotspur.com/to-dare-is-too-dear-2/

It tells me I was right in everything I’ve thought for years, such as:

1. THFC is a very wealthy club
2. We have one of the lowest net spends in the PL
3. Our wages/turnover is also one of the lowest
4. Despite constantly telling us we can’t afford to buy, Levy made himself the highest paid exec in the PL
5. Every club has suffered during the pandemic; only Levy is making an issue of it.

To summarise: we are the most profitable club in the PL and Levy is gaslighting the fans with his claims of impoverishment.

What do you think?

Skimmed it. There’s some merit in it. I’ve always felt Levy is very cautious with money. I think he dealt Poch a very bad hand which Poch played very badly that soured that relationship. And that still hurts me because I ****ing adore Poch. Levy broke him. Not signing anyone in 18 months or whatever was cautious in the extreme.

However, I think like most opinions these days, the article is determined to make Levy look as bad as possible. “Spurs had a profit of nearly 90
million and next was Liverpool on 40 million yet we don’t spend.” If I’m not wrong, those figures are for the year that Liverpool spent 75m on van Dijk, 70m on Alison and bought the likes of Fabinho and Keita too. We spend the same amount and we move from +90m to -60m while we’re financing a stadium.

The next season, we spent 125m on Ndombele, Lo Celso and Bergwijn. In the same period Liverpool spent about 10m (on Adrian and the lad from Salzburg) if I’m not mistaken.

On Levy’s salary, it’s heavily skewed by the one off bonus which, by all accounts, he earned because he lived and breathed that stadium. And it’s an incredible stadium. He’s a major shareholder in the club so I’ve no issue with his salary being more than Woodward.

I do think he’s cautious and too businesslike at times. But he’s brought us from never finishing top 6 in 15 years to top 6 (and top 4 for a while) regulars for the last 15 years. He’s given us the best stadium and training ground in the world. He’s now gotten us one of the best managers in the game. Remember when we had Gross, Santini and Francis. Remember being linked with Curbishley, Allardyce and Tony Pulis? We now have a serial winner, a strong team and world class facilities.

Personally, for all his faults, I’d rather have Levy than anyone else running the club.

joeguevara

abff wrote: »

Where did 8 matches in 18 days come from? It’s actually 8 matches in 17 days. There’s only 30 days in September.

Just counted out the games on my fingers (everyone broken from hurling) and yeah comes to 17. But every report is saying 18. Haven’t a clue tbh. Not that it makes much difference.

the idea that we couldnt travel to bulgaria or Romania or wherever with a team of half-squad/young players and easily win is a worry for me

same for league cup first round

these players- and we have several youth teams, and plenty of first team squad players that wont think they are getting a chance- are signed up to compete for a place at a top four epl club.

if they cannot perform under a bit of pressure against nobodies in order to help the team meet its goals, then as well to weed em out now

if our team goes straight from "first xi" to "absolute muck" then forget the europa league and league cups anyway. latter is worthless, former is a long and gruelling competition that has the faint promise of glory but isnt worth chasing.

players in that bench/promising youth category should be told right now that they are training as a europa league/cup side and will be picked. good for them, good for our first xi, good for the club

twas poch started the idea that it was first xi or bust and rotation was impossible, that attitude is a disaster and needs scrubbing

MrKingsley

Exactly Snoop.

This should be seen as an opportunity for squad/younger players to play 4 competitive matches.

Who knows maybe a couple will surprise Jose and we will end up with another couple of potential long term starters out of it

greenspurs

It is fcuking depressing to see how rich enic have become out of OUR football club!

Mourinho will be gone by January.
8 games in 18 days, the players will be wrecked by Xmas.
Too many games, too little quality players. Its turning into Poch version 2.

Enic out.

joeguevara

greenspurs wrote: »

It is fcuking depressing to see how rich enic have become out of OUR football club!

Mourinho will be gone by January.
8 games in 18 days, the players will be wrecked by Xmas.
Too many games, too little quality players. Its turning into Poch version 2.

Enic out.

Joe Lewis has a net worth of 4.2 billion. Spurs didn’t make him rich and will never make him rich. His net income increased by 462 million since 2018. Have a look at our financials and see what is attributable. ENIC has not been made rich by our club.

That is not to say that I don’t agree that they are setting up for a sale and Birch being brought in the clearest evidence of that. But if so, then any anti ENIC person should be applauding this. It is better to be sold as a club with healthy financials, capacity doubled, income stream from many sources including nfl, boxing and concerts that rivals Wembley.

As for Jose being gone by January, at least wait. We have made great signings with more to come. A squad that seems to have improved morale. Chairman backing a manager.

Pochettino was sacked because he lost the squad, bought players that didn’t perform, couldn’t handle press, no tactics and results were shocking.

greenspurs

joeguevara wrote: »

Joe Lewis has a net worth of 4.2 billion. Spurs didn’t make him rich and will never make him rich. His net income increased by 462 million since 2018. Have a look at our financials and see what is attributable. ENIC has not been made rich by our club.

That is not to say that I don’t agree that they are setting up for a sale and Birch being brought in the clearest evidence of that. But if so, then any anti ENIC person should be applauding this. It is better to be sold as a club with healthy financials, capacity doubled, income stream from many sources including nfl, boxing and concerts that rivals Wembley.

As for Jose being gone by January, at least wait. We have made great signings with more to come. A squad that seems to have improved morale. Chairman backing a manager.

Pochettino was sacked because he lost the squad, bought players that didn’t perform, couldn’t handle press, no tactics and results were shocking.

Lewis made Levy a shareholder - and Levy has made £30mill over 10 years.

I pray they sell up.
I have said this for years - We will NEVER win anything with enic running the club , NEVER.

Jose wont put up with tight purse strings, and when results go against us , due to having to play some of the 'squad' players, too many games, injuries , and pressure builds, Jose will do like he did at Utd..... Fight, then sulk, then walk.

Poch was sacked because Jose was lined up for weeks previous.
Because players were ran into the ground, due to very little investment over 18mths by the owners.
im not going to trash out that old argument again. … :rolleyes:

Enic are in it for financial gain, not trophies.
20 years in, 1 trophy won.
Pathetic. :mad:

Kiith

****ing hell lads, how about we wait for a few games before writing off the entire season :rolleyes:

joeguevara

Kiith wrote: »

****ing hell lads, how about we wait for a few games before writing off the entire season :rolleyes:

I actually think that we will go down in history by winning 8 games in 18 days with a goal difference never seen in professional football.

greenspurs

Kiith wrote: »

****ing hell lads, how about we wait for a few games before writing off the entire season :rolleyes:

just getting my predictions in early.....

Kinda used to the misery of Spurs ……

2nd Row Donkey

joeguevara wrote:

Fcuck that. This is me. We are going to win them all. Remember lads, next year ends with a 1.

The year ends in 1 alright.

What's really sad is I remember posting on boards.ie at the end of 2009/10 season when we had just qualified for the CL for the first time ever, under Harry Redknapp.

At he time we all felt success and trophies were just around the corner and with the upcoming season of 2011 ending in 1 sure it was bound to happen. Bale, Modric, Lennon, Crouch, Defoe, Pav, Jenas, Dawson, Kranjar etc.

10 years later and still an empty trophy room.

Dublin Spur

DeanAustin wrote: »

Skimmed it. There’s some merit in it. I’ve always felt Levy is very cautious with money. I think he dealt Poch a very bad hand which Poch played very badly that soured that relationship. And that still hurts me because I ****ing adore Poch. Levy broke him. Not signing anyone in 18 months or whatever was cautious in the extreme.

However, I think like most opinions these days, the article is determined to make Levy look as bad as possible. “Spurs had a profit of nearly 90
million and next was Liverpool on 40 million yet we don’t spend.” If I’m not wrong, those figures are for the year that Liverpool spent 75m on van Dijk, 70m on Alison and bought the likes of Fabinho and Keita too. We spend the same amount and we move from +90m to -60m while we’re financing a stadium.

The next season, we spent 125m on Ndombele, Lo Celso and Bergwijn. In the same period Liverpool spent about 10m (on Adrian and the lad from Salzburg) if I’m not mistaken.

On Levy’s salary, it’s heavily skewed by the one off bonus which, by all accounts, he earned because he lived and breathed that stadium. And it’s an incredible stadium. He’s a major shareholder in the club so I’ve no issue with his salary being more than Woodward.

I do think he’s cautious and too businesslike at times. But he’s brought us from never finishing top 6 in 15 years to top 6 (and top 4 for a while) regulars for the last 15 years. He’s given us the best stadium and training ground in the world. He’s now gotten us one of the best managers in the game. Remember when we had Gross, Santini and Francis. Remember being linked with Curbishley, Allardyce and Tony Pulis? We now have a serial winner, a strong team and world class facilities.

Personally, for all his faults, I’d rather have Levy than anyone else running the club.

Than 'anyone else'

Listen I am fully aware of the idea of better the devil you know than the devil you don't but after 20 years of this mob clearly we all must know that they are not in it for football reasons, they're in it for maximum revenue accumulation

If football glory/success is not their main ambition, then fundamentally they are the wrong people for our club, or any club for that matter.

greenspurs

“There is no correlation between spending money and success.”

Daniel Levy


That should be the new Club motto.

owners of big clubs in it for footballing reasons in september 2020: a list

______


you might point to owners that manage their clubs differently, but outside of germany (which has a trust setup that dictates fan ownership and club stewardship) there is no club on any such list that i would swap ENIC for.

so what you mean is owners that spend money to make money, or owners that spend money as a PR balancer for their very very dodgy human rights record or owners that wash oligarch roubles through their club

and not every one of those owners even had success.

john henry didnt bring success to liverpool out of the goodness of his heart. jurgen klopp did, and he sanctioned buying the right squad players from relegated teams for what- 4?- years in a row.

Levy/ENIC, as *everyone* on this thread has already noted, are far from perfect. but criticism of them for the sake of it and criticism as if they are to be measured against a perfection that doesnt exist and criticism of them that refuses to acknowledge progress from the days of gerry fackin francis is absolutely worthless

if amazon buys us and propels us into the billionaire club stratosphere so that neymar can come here and hate the place, i would have very mixed feeling about that

best case scenario- levy and enic buy a few more players, move out the dead wood sooner and take a loss. back the manager for the players he would like.

seems to me that this summer we have seen positive moves in just that direction.

funny time to be copy and pasting the usual spiel i must say

squad, and money needed to improve- remind me who im missing


gk- lloris, hart, gazzaniga (latter may move, alfie whiteman a prospect so i hear)

lloris seems revitalised since his injury imo. i think gazza was good backup but unlikely to push for first xi, hart has a very paul robinson career path, im not convinced of his worth in this regard but his mental attitude around the squad might be worth something. money required: none.


defence- aurier, doherty, alderweireld, sanchez, dier, tanganga, davies, sessegnon, cirkin, foyth, carter-vickers, rose, cirkin

obviously a few there that arent much use to us, but a back four of doherty, alderweireld, sanchez, davies is a start, and dier, tanganga, sessegnon, cirkin, foyth lend depth and can all be expected to improve (would expect sanchez and davies to be challenged for their spots and wouldnt complain about getting in a real first xi lb).

aurier, rose, foyth out and giving sessegnon/cirkin a chance to prove themselves means money to spend on a cb first team upgrade/challenger to dier/sanchez. net spend not much.

hojbjerg, winks, sissoko, ndombele, lo celso, gedson

hojbjerg a massive upgrade. lo celso is a star imo. winks is good cover. sissoko i love for his turnaround but no use to a team that needs end product. ndombele is a fat and lazy sod and needs gone. gedson shows no sign of being a footballer.

if these lads are covering two cm positions then i think we should be shifting the no-hopers out and spending on a player of at least winks-level to have four quality options. net profit easily attainable.

attacking midfield

lamela, lucas, bergwijn, alli, son

if thats challenging for two positions then you want one more player of *at least* lamela/lucas quality, but of the players that are there im actually ok with each of them- all but son would need to understand that their form and consistency are under scrutiny and that they arent first xi on merit based on their recent output (bergwijn obv a very new signing and should be seen as the closest to first xi of them after son imo)

net spend required- ideally lamela out and a more consistent and available performer in, even tho i love erik and he loves us. but i think we need a quality option here.


strikers: kane

clearly need a challenger/cover here. i think that the options discussed such and wilson/king make a lot of sense considering we have nothing, but tbh they are more like third choice for CL- place contenders. but kane himself and the manager are the issue here- how does he react to an actual challenger coming in for 50m and demanding a fair run at minutes? its not all enic penny-pinching

net spend- tricky in the circumstances but at least one 20m level player as cover/rest for kane

money and spend are not imo the way to tweak, bolster and round out that squad. much more interesting to shape it around what jose thinks is most needed within the parameters of what is available, homegrown and doesn't block the potential of some of our prospects to grow.

greenspurs

Deleted User wrote: »

owners of big clubs in it for footballing reasons in september 2020: a list

______


you might point to owners that manage their clubs differently, but outside of germany (which has a trust setup that dictates fan ownership and club stewardship) there is no club on any such list that i would swap ENIC for.

so what you mean is owners that spend money to make money, or owners that spend money as a PR balancer for their very very dodgy human rights record or owners that wash oligarch roubles through their club

and not every one of those owners even had success.

john henry didnt bring success to liverpool out of the goodness of his heart. jurgen klopp did, and he sanctioned buying the right squad players from relegated teams for what- 4?- years in a row.

Levy/ENIC, as *everyone* on this thread has already noted, are far from perfect. but criticism of them for the sake of it and criticism as if they are to be measured against a perfection that doesnt exist and criticism of them that refuses to acknowledge progress from the days of gerry fackin francis is absolutely worthless

if amazon buys us and propels us into the billionaire club stratosphere so that neymar can come here and hate the place, i would have very mixed feeling about that

best case scenario- levy and enic buy a few more players, move out the dead wood sooner and take a loss. back the manager for the players he would like.

seems to me that this summer we have seen positive moves in just that direction.

funny time to be copy and pasting the usual spiel i must say

Its not "criticism for the sake of it" …
Under their ownership Spurs have won 1 trophy...
doesn't sound like a Club dominating Leagues and Cup competitions now does it?
Maybe your standards are lower? You are happy with having "a world class training facility, and stadium" blah blah blah ….?

but , Still winning nothing.

Copy and paste ? doesn't mean its not relevant. He said it and believes it... and rules by it.

Gerry Francis - come on now will yaa… :rolleyes:
Okay then, We have regressed massively from Bill Nicks days then...…

Re. Man city and PSG - I don't see many complaining, only when they are in contention to win things ….
Nike make our club gear -
https://www.newidea.com.au/nike-sweatshops-the-truth-about-the-nike-factory-scandal

If Neymar came and scored the winning goal in a Champs Lge final , and celebrated in front of Jeff Bezos , you wouldn't celebrate …??
Majority of players are mercenaries and move for money, some stay/move because of love for a club … Its nothing new or scandalous about it...
So I don't see how thats an issue??

(Did anyone mention Alan Sugar yet ??? :rolleyes: )

joeguevara

Blackburn won the premier league in 95 and the league cup in 2002. (I was at that fcucking hell friedel had a worldie). So based on most posters description of success, they romped it. Where are they now?

Success is not only about cups. Who here would have thought in the 90s and the noughties that we would be regulars in champions league and in final.

What about Leeds. League winners. CL semifinals and oblivion.

I completely understand ENIC out sentiment but what if Indian chicken farmers bought us and we ended up in league 2. Or ended up like a Fulham, or rangers, or Accrington Stanley. Who are they...exactly.

again

"one trophy in 20 years"

versus

gone from eleventh or worse to multiple successive champions league campaigns

if you cannot provide a reasonable balance of progress, and all your rage is good for is a sneer at those who can, what is the point? who in the thread is going to hear anything you say, when that is your attitude to anyone disagreeing with you?

again- nobody here lives to praise enic. and by the time the season is half over im sure we'll all have been very wise after the fact as to what jose and levy have done wrong this summer.

but it is totally fair to say your points are reheated, unspecific to our current situation and trite.

who, out of whats available, do you go out and buy right now, for what money, to fill what space in the squad, that pleases mourinho, that complements what we have?

a far more interesting conversation imo.

our last big signing was ndombele by the way. spurs arent jumping to world class signings with any success any time soon. our current blueprint is a good one.

joeguevara

I doubt there is any supporter here who is satisfied with one sh1te trophy in 20 years. No one really is impressed with an accolade like a world class stadium, only team who has a brewery onsite, training facilities or being the only team to consistently show an annual profit. We look at the likes of Leicester winning the league with a bang average team or Liverpool who we were on a par with winning two CL and a premiership.

One thing I am interested in though. Abrahmovic was going to buy us until he sat in WHL and didnt like the atmosphere. Would people like if a billionaire playboy like him bought us and threw billions to win a league or a Saudi sheikh do a Man City to us. Is winning by billions something supporters want? I often wonder would I have the same passion if we were manufactured. The fact that city dodged a CL suspension and sign someone for 700 million disgusts me. Am I alone?

DeanAustin

Personally, I’d be pro Levy but see some shortcomings but I don’t think anyone’s going to change their opinion of them based on an Internet discussion.

The trophy argument is a fair one but the only counter point to that is that since Levy took over the club, two clubs have won the lottery. Without Abramovich, Chelsea would have done a Leeds. Without the Arabs, City would be still a yo yo club. Those clubs have hoovered up silverware in the last 15 years in a way that makes comparisons with previous eras a bit unfair. That said, Wigan and Pompey have won an FA Cup each so we’ve still underachieved on that front. But Levy has brought in the one man you’d associate with winning trophies. Where Poch was about the process and the feelings, Jose is quite clearly about cold hard results.

joeguevara

DeanAustin wrote: »

Personally, I’d be pro Levy but see some shortcomings but I don’t think anyone’s going to change their opinion of them based on an Internet discussion.

The trophy argument is a fair one but the only counter point to that is that since Levy took over the club, two clubs have won the lottery. Without Abramovich, Chelsea would have done a Leeds. Without the Arabs, City would be still a yo yo club. Those clubs have hoovered up silverware in the last 15 years in a way that makes comparisons with previous eras a bit unfair. That said, Wigan and Pompey have won an FA Cup each so we’ve still underachieved on that front. But Levy has brought in the one man you’d associate with winning trophies. Where Poch was about the process and the feelings, Jose is quite clearly about cold hard results.

Not only is your username one of my favourite spurs players, you literally read my mind. Firstly where are Wigan and Pompey now. City wouldn’t even be a yo yo club. They were a yo club, apart from having Paul Walsh and Clive Allen.

The thing that has p1ssed me off most is this Birch signing. His two strengths are selling a club and reducing costs. A fcucking bean counter. Last year there was talk about Piet Visser joining us who found Neymar and Ronaldo and had most success with Mourinho and who do we end up with, a guy who thought it was good deal to sell Chelsea for 120 mil. By the way, he comes from Ernst and Young who under their watch had Enron, Lehman, madoff, Thomas cook,Anglo, Quinn, danske and most recently wirecard as esteemed clients.

greenspurs

joeguevara wrote: »

I doubt there is any supporter here who is satisfied with one sh1te trophy in 20 years. No one really is impressed with an accolade like a world class stadium, only team who has a brewery onsite, training facilities or being the only team to consistently show an annual profit. We look at the likes of Leicester winning the league with a bang average team or Liverpool who we were on a par with winning two CL and a premiership.

One thing I am interested in though. Abrahmovic was going to buy us until he sat in WHL and didnt like the atmosphere. Would people like if a billionaire playboy like him bought us and threw billions to win a league or a Saudi sheikh do a Man City to us. Is winning by billions something supporters want? I often wonder would I have the same passion if we were manufactured. The fact that city dodged a CL suspension and sign someone for 700 million disgusts me. Am I alone?

Wow … :rolleyes:

Every team is 'manufactured' to try win things ?

To me, its about winning things...
Cups, Leagues etc...

Obviously people on here have way lower standards, and prefer to qualify for things over actually winning something.
That's obviously the same mentality as the owners, so I shall say no more.

joeguevara

greenspurs wrote: »

Wow … :rolleyes:

Every team is 'manufactured' to try win things ?

To me, its about winning things...
Cups, Leagues etc...

Obviously people on here have way lower standards, and prefer to qualify for things over actually winning something.
That's obviously the same mentality as the owners, so I shall say no more.

There is a reason why City average at least 10000 empty seats per premier league match. For all their recent silverware they are a team without soul. One match there wasn’t enough supporters to hold city banner. To me that’s the worst way to be. I’d prefer to be in the 2nd division with a community atmosphere.

There is a difference between building a team and oil money buying a trophy.

Also, what comes quick, leaves quicker. I’d be worried that the sheik or ogliarch would get bored and fcuck off. Do you think a club that buys a player for 700 million is sustainable.

Maybe it’s just me.

golfball37

Money doesn’t guarantee anything. We were in a semi final against Man U in a stadium where we beat them 4-1 a month previously and threw in the towel after they equalized. We reached the biggest game in world football and our opponents put in their worst performance in 18 months and we still didn’t turn up.

The mentality at the club needs to change before finances. I’m proud to support a club that does things the right way financially but I’m ashamed of our mentality sometimes. Whether we like it or not Keane and Fergie were spot on about the team talk required to win the league in 99. That’s what hasn’t changed in my 35 years of supporting Tottenham and that’s my number one priority as a supporter personally

joeguevara

golfball37 wrote: »

Money doesn’t guarantee anything. We were in a semi final against Man U in a stadium where we beat them 4-1 a month previously and threw in the towel after they equalized. We reached the biggest game in world football and our opponents put in their worst performance in 18 months and we still didn’t turn up.

The mentality at the club needs to change before finances. I’m proud to support a club that does things the right way financially but I’m ashamed of our mentality sometimes. Whether we like it or not Keane and Fergie were spot on about the team talk required to win the league in 99. That’s what hasn’t changed in my 35 years of supporting Tottenham and that’s my number one priority as a supporter personally

I’m going to preface this post by agreeing with everything you say and saying being a spurs supporter is one of the hardest crosses I ever had to bare. Luckily I am a tipp hurling supporter and have being in the ground every time they have won a Munster championship and All Ireland since 1989. (Nicky English fcucking legend). Also my dad played for Donegal so lucky to see them lift Sam in 92 and jimmy in 2012.

But if there was a trial of fans v ENIC and I was representing ENIC, I’d say this.

It is interesting in your first paragraph that you mention a loss to United in semi and a loss in CL final. Both losses were on the pitch and dugout. In fact ENIC had nothing to do with either losses and in fact built the team that got them there.

Secondly, the closest we got to winning a league was the year Leicester won. There was nothing more that ENIC could have done and the main reason we lost was the fact that Dembele and Alli deliberately got themselves suspended due to their foul play and poor man management by dug out.

CL was lost due to a decision by dugout to play an injured player instead of moura who was in form. Are you really blaming ENIC for that decision.

As for investment in team, I agree net investment looks bad but surely that is due to massive sales rather than low purchases. We sold bale for close to 100 mil and literally spent every penny on soldado, Paulinho, lamela and son. If money mattered we wouldn’t. Now soldado, paulinho flopped and were sold on, but where is Paulinho now. Son is one of our best players. Lamela is amazing but blighted by injury.

ENIC brought players like Van Der Vart and David’s to us. If VDV kept his d1ck in his pants he wouldn’t have left. Davids was immense. Our last wonder team imploded, because of Poch not ENIC.

Yes, fergie degraded us by saying ‘come on lads, it’s spurs’ but have a look at what that man did to Paul McGrath, and to me his words mean nothing. Keano walked out on his country whereas ENIC have stayed here and built us up to the brink of tier 1.

Yes it hurts seeing other teams celebrating. But we are spurs. No matter what you say about levy he is one of the only chairman at every match front and centre. When we lose do you see how it hurts him. He’s not up chomping on prawn sandwiches and swigging bollinger. He is also not a war criminal or a Russian war criminal.

We are spurs. No matter what we are progressing. You asked for early business and we have done that. We have one of the best strikers in the world, and our mid is unreal. Son is world class and celso getting there. Berjwin is on verge and fcuck lads Sissoko.

Like or hate Jose is considered a modern messiah. He has never failed to deliver a tier 1 trophy in any of his clubs. Even a sh1te united won a European title,

Our goalie is a World Cup winner. How many other clubs have had the ride we have.

greenspurs

joeguevara wrote: »

Yes, fergie degraded us by saying ‘come on lads, it’s spurs’ but have a look at what that man did to Paul McGrath, and to me his words mean nothing. Keano walked out on his country whereas ENIC have stayed here and built us up to the brink of tier 1.


our mid is unreal. Son is world class and celso getting there. Berjwin is on verge and fcuck lads Sissoko.

Lad, you've gone full bonkers now....

Fergie - the greatest football manager ever ? and his words mean nothing ??
Keane - One of the greatest midfielders to play for Utd, in England , and probably Irelands best performer …..

Spurs were soft for decades, and just cos you choose to ignore the 2 named above is extremely blinkered , and just to suit your argument.

What is "Tier 1 " ?

MrKingsley

My two cents on this.

In no way are ENIC or poch(or his predecessors) solely to blame for the lack of trophies. They have to work together in order for the club to win.

You could say that Poch was backed exactly how he wanted to for the first 3 years of his reign and the improvement was incredible. A+ to both parties.

Then the last 2 years he obviously didn’t get the investment he wanted. Did he go about it the right way- no I don’t think so but he was running out of options.

ENIC then decide to Chuck a load of money at the problem when it was too late.

Both parties have to share some blame.

Also to say that Leicster won the league because of a couple of suspensions of we lost the CL final because Kane started is far too simplistic I think Joe

joeguevara

greenspurs wrote: »

Lad, you've gone full bonkers now....

Fergie - the greatest football manager ever ? and his words mean nothing ??
Keane - One of the greatest midfielders to play for Utd, in England , and probably Irelands best performer …..

Spurs were soft for decades, and just cos you choose to ignore the 2 named above is extremely blinkered , and just to suit your argument.

What is "Tier 1 " ?

I think you missed the second paragraph of my post. Because of golf balls post (which I completely agreed with as I said in my first paragraph) and based on all anti ENIC sentiment in the hours before, I said I could imagine a fans v ENIC trial, my rebuttal representing ENIC would be: rest of my post.

Golfball specifically raised Fergie and Keane comments, and what I posted was neither had loyalty but ENIC have. I specifically dislike Ferguson as he had no morals. I referenced McGrath but easily could have mentioned rock of Gibraltar. Amazing manager but reprehensible human (IMO). Keane, amazing footballer but again the guy has no morals. He signed for Blackburn from nots forrest but reneged and signed for Fergie. Fact he walked out on his country in Saipan I can’t forgive. But all tongue in cheek. Again remember i was pretending to speak for ENIC.

Side note. Keane wasn’t close to being Ireland’s best performer. McGrath was. Houghton, bonner and Robbie then.

Tier 1 is a CL or league title.

Ps only having a bit of craic.

Charliebull

kinda glad i hadnt time to look in here today

i see we have regressed to the old enic out policy

60 million on ndombele and now we cant get him out the door quick enough, prime eg money dont buy success

enic are responsible for a certain amount of our recent decline, so is pooch to a certain extent,

but enic to be fair have taken be club to a good place, ffs we were within an asses roar of winning two PL and the CL, we didnt not win because of Enic but because we bottled it

sure enic didnt back the manager and should have, but who says they didnt try to get what he wanted
pooch picked ndomble over fernandes, that worked out well

and to be fair joe, to criticise fergie and keane is not an argument that stacks up,

anyway when are the pubs going to open

joeguevara

Charliebull wrote: »

kinda glad i hadnt time to look in here today

i see we have regressed to the old enic out policy

60 million on ndombele and now we cant get him out the door quick enough, prime eg money dont buy success

enic are responsible for a certain amount of our recent decline, so is pooch to a certain extent,

but enic to be fair have taken be club to a good place, ffs we were within an asses roar of winning two PL and the CL, we didnt not win because of Enic but because we bottled it

sure enic didnt back the manager and should have, but who says they didnt try to get what he wanted
pooch picked ndomble over fernandes, that worked out well

and to be fair joe, to criticise fergie and keane is not an argument that stacks up,

anyway when are the pubs going to open

Honestly notwithstanding ENIC out posts (I love ENIC by the way) all of it started with finding out we have 8 matches in 17/18 days and discussion on whether we should rest players for uefa matches.

Honestly does anyone think any of my arguments stack up? Main reason for disliking fergie is due to a family connection to the coolmore mafia. Actually this is an interesting story. Magnier jp and Dermot Desmond had already bought a stake in United. John Magnier from coolmore stud wanted Fergie to give a keynote at Gimrack dinner in york. But powers that be refused as only owners Who won the number in the festival were allowed to do so. Magnier was p1ssed off and resolved that by hook or by crook he would have Fergie at that podium the next year. The following year Magnier had three horses that could win it. On the day of the bumper he picked Gibraltar and registered Fergie as joint owner. Fergie knew it was nominal only and only for him to speak. Gibraltar won and Magnier smiled the whole way through Fergies speech as the organisers were seething. But as Magnier and jp were united fans they didn’t reverse the ownership and for the rest of Gibraltar’s career it ran in red and white in honour of Fergie.

Anyway, Rock of Gibraltar exceeded all expectations and won and won and won. At retirement guys said to fergie, the craic is done as his semen is worth a million a straw. Fergie said, he owns 50% even though always made clear it was a joke. At this stage Magnier, jp and Desmond were going to buy United but Ferguson’s narcissism and lies meant they pulled out and bought Celtic. Fergie was shown up as a liar but still managed to bag 3.5 mil for nothing.

Keane is a Saipan walkout. And he called Niall Quinn (another tipp man) mother Teresa.

But listen, I grew up in rural tipp in the 80s as a spurs fan and had to listen to some sh1te from United and pool supporters.

golfball37

joeguevara wrote: »

I’m going to preface this post by agreeing with everything you say and saying being a spurs supporter is one of the hardest crosses I ever had to bare. Luckily I am a tipp hurling supporter and have being in the ground every time they have won a Munster championship and All Ireland since 1989. (Nicky English fcucking legend). Also my dad played for Donegal so lucky to see them lift Sam in 92 and jimmy in 2012.

But if there was a trial of fans v ENIC and I was representing ENIC, I’d say this.

It is interesting in your first paragraph that you mention a loss to United in semi and a loss in CL final. Both losses were on the pitch and dugout. In fact ENIC had nothing to do with either losses and in fact built the team that got them there.

Secondly, the closest we got to winning a league was the year Leicester won. There was nothing more that ENIC could have done and the main reason we lost was the fact that Dembele and Alli deliberately got themselves suspended due to their foul play and poor man management by dug out.

CL was lost due to a decision by dugout to play an injured player instead of moura who was in form. Are you really blaming ENIC for that decision.

As for investment in team, I agree net investment looks bad but surely that is due to massive sales rather than low purchases. We sold bale for close to 100 mil and literally spent every penny on soldado, Paulinho, lamela and son. If money mattered we wouldn’t. Now soldado, paulinho flopped and were sold on, but where is Paulinho now. Son is one of our best players. Lamela is amazing but blighted by injury.

ENIC brought players like Van Der Vart and David’s to us. If VDV kept his d1ck in his pants he wouldn’t have left. Davids was immense. Our last wonder team imploded, because of Poch not ENIC.

Yes, fergie degraded us by saying ‘come on lads, it’s spurs’ but have a look at what that man did to Paul McGrath, and to me his words mean nothing. Keano walked out on his country whereas ENIC have stayed here and built us up to the brink of tier 1.

Yes it hurts seeing other teams celebrating. But we are spurs. No matter what you say about levy he is one of the only chairman at every match front and centre. When we lose do you see how it hurts him. He’s not up chomping on prawn sandwiches and swigging bollinger. He is also not a war criminal or a Russian war criminal.

We are spurs. No matter what we are progressing. You asked for early business and we have done that. We have one of the best strikers in the world, and our mid is unreal. Son is world class and celso getting there. Berjwin is on verge and fcuck lads Sissoko.

Like or hate Jose is considered a modern messiah. He has never failed to deliver a tier 1 trophy in any of his clubs. Even a sh1te united won a European title,

Our goalie is a World Cup winner. How many other clubs have had the ride we have.

I don’t think you read my post at all tbh so best leave it. Either that or you interpreted me saying ENIC were to blame for a mentality I clearly stated was prevalent long before they arrived

joeguevara

golfball37 wrote: »

I don’t think you read my post at all tbh so best leave it. Either that or you interpreted me saying ENIC were to blame for a mentality I clearly stated was prevalent long before they arrived

Ah lads, did no one realise that I was pulling the p1ss and wondering what would an actual ENIC rep say to the fans. I’m as sick as anyone with no success but wondered how they would argue it. Also, one of the most embarrassing days was in slatterys in capel street watching spurs United. Can you imagine the abuse I was giving everyone when we went 3 nil up Richards (rip), les and Ziege.


Imagine how embarrassing it was to lose 5 3. That’s why any mention of United flicks a switch. It was banter, not serious..

spurshero

joeguevara wrote: »

I’m going to preface this post by agreeing with everything you say and saying being a spurs supporter is one of the hardest crosses I ever had to bare. Luckily I am a tipp hurling supporter and have being in the ground every time they have won a Munster championship and All Ireland since 1989. (Nicky English fcucking legend). Also my dad played for Donegal so lucky to see them lift Sam in 92 and jimmy in 2012.

But if there was a trial of fans v ENIC and I was representing ENIC, I’d say this.

It is interesting in your first paragraph that you mention a loss to United in semi and a loss in CL final. Both losses were on the pitch and dugout. In fact ENIC had nothing to do with either losses and in fact built the team that got them there.

Secondly, the closest we got to winning a league was the year Leicester won. There was nothing more that ENIC could have done and the main reason we lost was the fact that Dembele and Alli deliberately got themselves suspended due to their foul play and poor man management by dug out.

CL was lost due to a decision by dugout to play an injured player instead of moura who was in form. Are you really blaming ENIC for that decision.

As for investment in team, I agree net investment looks bad but surely that is due to massive sales rather than low purchases. We sold bale for close to 100 mil and literally spent every penny on soldado, Paulinho, lamela and son. If money mattered we wouldn’t. Now soldado, paulinho flopped and were sold on, but where is Paulinho now. Son is one of our best players. Lamela is amazing but blighted by injury.

ENIC brought players like Van Der Vart and David’s to us. If VDV kept his d1ck in his pants he wouldn’t have left. Davids was immense. Our last wonder team imploded, because of Poch not ENIC.

Yes, fergie degraded us by saying ‘come on lads, it’s spurs’ but have a look at what that man did to Paul McGrath, and to me his words mean nothing. Keano walked out on his country whereas ENIC have stayed here and built us up to the brink of tier 1.

Yes it hurts seeing other teams celebrating. But we are spurs. No matter what you say about levy he is one of the only chairman at every match front and centre. When we lose do you see how it hurts him. He’s not up chomping on prawn sandwiches and swigging bollinger. He is also not a war criminal or a Russian war criminal.

We are spurs. No matter what we are progressing. You asked for early business and we have done that. We have one of the best strikers in the world, and our mid is unreal. Son is world class and celso getting there. Berjwin is on verge and fcuck lads Sissoko.

Like or hate Jose is considered a modern messiah. He has never failed to deliver a tier 1 trophy in any of his clubs. Even a sh1te united won a European title,

Our goalie is a World Cup winner. How many other clubs have had the ride we have.

Son is for sure one of our best if not best player . But amazing and lamela should never be in one sentence . He’s showed glimpses but overall for my money has being average enough .

PTH2009

Jose a fan of football manager 2020

greenspurs

Charliebull wrote: »

kinda glad i hadnt time to look in here today

i see we have regressed to the old enic out policy

"WE" haven't,
I have continued my "ENIC OUT" policy ….



BTW:

Gazza signed for Spurs on this day 32 years ago.

greenspurs

joeguevara wrote: »

Keane is a Saipan walkout. And he called Niall Quinn (another tipp man) mother Teresa.

But listen, I grew up in rural tipp in the 80s as a spurs fan and had to listen to some sh1te from United and pool supporters.

Keane was sent home .
for demanding proper standards, rightly or wrongly, but the FAI guys in blazers disagreed.
The rest is history.