Messy Covid nursing home situation

LegacyUser

This is a tough one. My granny lives in a nursing home and has been diagnosed with coronavirus. Its not looking good. As awful as it is since I'll probably never see her again or get to say goodbye it was something I was preparing for so I'm doing as best as I can and can work from home and distract myself. I'd read up on coronavirus and know a fair bit and since lockdown haven't done anything or seen anyone outside my immediate family who I live with, what we're supposed to do.

The problem is I think, well I'm sure, the nursing home isn't obeying full guidelines and has been letting my family in to visit my granny and slowly but surely all social distancing advice the government is giving is being ignored more and more every day. Now the nursing home has been lovely, my granny has been very happy there since she left and it was the best thing for her after my grandad passed and everyone trying to care for her with dementia just ended up making her worse. So I'd have had no issues with them up to this point and seen it as the best place for my granny. But they're just letting everyone come and go. Today alone my Mam has been there for hours. They say they put them in gowns and masks but still the family are sitting there in the room with them all together telling stories and doing the usual things when a loved one is dying which we're just not supposed to do today. Its awful and I'd love to be able to see my granny and say my goodbyes myself, it's been hinted that I could if I wanted, but I just know I shouldn't. That's the **** situation we're all stuck in and we have to abide by or more people will get sick. To add to this the family has just been dropping in and out of each others homes for chats. I get that they need support cus their mother is dying, totally get it. But again we're not supposed to do this and the whole country is in the same boat. If they don't they could pass it onto their family and so on and cause more deaths. That's how my granny got it. She wasn't out and about she probably caught it from a nurse who caught it from someone else.

My mam and I have always had a difficult relationship. She's an alcoholic diagnosed with a personality disorder and extremely difficult to deal with, the whole family does be on tip toes with her and I'm often the enemy because I'll push back on her bullying ways. I was actually close with my granny and grandad growing up because they'd be my place away from home when things got too mental so dealing with the last of them dying is tough. I've started seeing a counsellor and seeing how things in a 'normal' house should be and dealing with how bad my mam actually has been all these years. But she's still my mam and that's her mam and I want to be able to be support for her and definitely don't wanna make it harder for her. I know saying anything would go down like a led balloon and I'd be painted as the bad guy with the whole family if I spoke up about my concerns. I obviously can't move in this climate though I am watching Daft for openings still, living at home was a last resort in this crappy rental market and I was hoping to be gone by now before this all started.

What do I do? Do I just keep my mouth shut and make my peace with the fact that everyone in our house is probably going to get coronavirus and spread it? Do I report the nursing home to the HSE somehow privately and be the reason nobody in my family gets to spend more time with their mother? Do I speak up even though I know it'll make no difference, it'll make my home life hell and give my mam an excuse to take everything out on me, just so I know I spoke up? There's no good answer and I'm carrying all of this while trying to deal with the fact my granny is probably going to die any day now and I won't have got to say goodbye.

TheBoyConor

Absolutely no excuse for this carry on and this is exactly the kind of brain dead behaviour that has us in lockdown in the first place.

First thing in the morning contact HIQA and tell them exactly what you have told us and the nursing home management will be getting a stern talking to in very short order and possibly severe consequences for their blatant disregard for the health protection measures. It is particularly discgraceful for them to be flouting the measures as they are healthcare professionals and should know better.

It could also be their disregard for protection measures that ended up with your granny getting covid. You might have a case against the nursing home.

HIQA are obliged to maintain confidentiality so when they nail the nursing home managers to the floor boards they won't be telling them that it was yourself who made the complaint. So you can rest assured that you won't be made to take the blame.

I know someone working for HIQA and from what I'm told, they take no prisoners when it comes to substandard nursing homes.

Rubberchikken

Whatever about them going between each other's homes, the visits during end of life are allowed if visitors abide by the rules set by the home.you could go. You'll be able to wear a mask, maybe a gown or apron and sanitise your hands regularly.

It maybe worth it to see your gran.

tenbob1

Sorry for what your are going through. I would also make the following call as well as to HIQA

Garda Confidential Line

Telephone: 1800 666 111

The Garda Confidential line allows the public to call with confidential information relating to matters of crime or other activities.

Airyfairy12

Id report it if I was in your situation, maybe if they hadn't been letting people in your granny and how many others wouldn't have caught the virus. They have a duty of care to the patients in the care home which theyre not adhering to.

LegacyUser

I won't be going up there. To be fair they did stop all guests coming in a few weeks ago and when that happened, knowing how Covid affected nursing homes in other countries, I kinda made my peace with the fact that I probably wouldn't see my granny again and started grieving then. Also she has dementia and is non-responsive so it's not a case where she'll realise someone hasn't been to see her, visits are more for the family's benefit to say goodbye than hers. I know there are some regulations for end of life but when you hear what's happening it's a list of things we're not supposed to do anymore. A group of people sitting in her small room for a couple hours a time with her all telling stories. Again normal behaviour and no issue for a family during normal times but not now. The first day they were allowed in one at a time for 10-15 minutes max which I was like fair enough, say your goodbyes but there's still some precautions been taken. That's gone out the window now and they're all just down there constantly and if they're not they're in and out of each other's homes. Last night they took shifts of staying with her at all times my Mam left in the early hours of the night to go sit with a positive patient for a few hours. Surely the nursing home should step in here instead of supporting it. I don't blame my family, their mam is dying so they're going to do what they can, but that's why we have people to step in and set the rules there has to be a line somewhere. The virus is just going to run through my entire family now after this and do way more damage, I've no doubt about that.

spaceHopper

Really sorry about your Granny.

At this stage it's probably to late they've spent so much time with her that the harm is done if they are going to get it they probably have it by now - reporting this will do you no good. The best thing you can do is to make sure that they don't spread it.

Also you may find that the nursing home are very short staffed. A lot are off sick or not showing up, no agency staff to be had and you mum is filling the gap by staying with your Granny.

Don't feel band that you haven't been in. You probably visited her when it mattered when she was well and could enjoy the company. Remember her in better times don't go in to see her now do you want it to be your last memory of her. Would she have wanted that?

TheBoyConor

Chances are that the damage is done and they have already contacted the virus and are just not yet showing symptoms. Their fate is sealed.

The responsible thing now that you can do is project yourself and warn them harshly that they must observe the rules impeccably. They are the very sort of people that are spreading this disease as they think the rules don't apply to them, just to everyone else.

They could end up causing the infection and death of many more people if they carry on like they are.

If they continue to be irresponsible, then you can report them and their behaviour to the Gardai. If they don't need the Gardai warnings then the Gardai now have the power to order the mandatory isolation of people, by physical force should it become necessary.

Get your family members to understand that they may already have it and you will be treating them as such and if they continue to be behave irresponsibly, you will have no other choice but to inform on them in order to protect yourself and others.

the14thwarrior

I am sorry for your troubles.

The NH are not breaking any law or rule by letting family in to see someone who is end of life, and family are asked to wear appropriate PPE and obviously not a gang of them.
Your family need to be responsible too.
there are plenty of people who are watching loved ones through the window of nh and watching them die. one or two are allowed in .

different nh have different rules. but all are trying to stop the spread and no, its not like life is normal, nor do any normal rules apply.

telling you to call the gardai, HIQA is neither helpful nor constructive, who is going to call the police on their family? shocking advice.
you are going through a tough time
stay safe, you've made your peace.
perhaps thats why you are comfortable and sensible and know that you have no regrets. You did right by your granny when you needed to.

Hannibal_Smith

OP thats a really sad situation, I'm so sorry about your granny. I couldn't even begin to put myself in your family's shoes. If one of my parents were dying, I would find if very hard not to go see them.

Could you ring the nursing home and ask them to have a word with your mum and family and explain how they should be behaving when they leave?

AulWan

I am in the same situation with my beloved aunt, and we have not been allowed to see her or set foot inside the nursing home since they closed doors on the 6th of March. No one is allowed to visit.

The staff have been incredibly kind keeping in touch every single day and have enabled us all to visit via facetime, even letters have been sent back and forth.

I genuinely feel for you, as right now I would give everything to see my aunt, she was a huge part of my life growing up, and it is killing me not to see her.

What your Nanny's nursing home is doing should be reported.

Also, the next person who tells me that we should "open up to save the economy" at the expense of our vunerable, and elderly loved ones lives, is going to get a punch in the face.

Maybe when its their mother, or aunt, or nanny they will understand how precious they are, and how precious every second spent with them is.

zerosugarbuzz

AulWan wrote: »

I am in the same situation with my beloved aunt, and we have not been allowed to see her or set foot inside the nursing home since they closed doors on the 6th of March. No one is allowed to visit.

The staff have been incredibly kind keeping in touch every single day and have enabled us all to visit via facetime, even letters have been sent back and forth.

I genuinely feel for you, as right now I would give everything to see my aunt, she was a huge part of my life growing up, and it is killing me not to see her.

What your Nanny's nursing home is doing should be reported.

Also, the next person who tells me that we should "open up to save the economy" at the expense of our vunerable, and elderly loved ones lives, is going to get a punch in the face.

Maybe when its their mother, or aunt, or nanny they will understand how precious they are, and how precious every second spent with them is.

I think that is a little unfair. My going back to work would in no way effect anyone in a nursing home. The deaths in nursing homes, lack of PPE etc is an absolute disgrace as is not being able to visit while wearing protective clothing. Punch away if it helps you we all have or have had sick elderly relatives not just you 😡

AulWan

Consider yourself punched.

How do you think this virus spreads? Its transmitted in the community, so yes, you going back to work COULD result in someone else being infected and bringing the virus back home to someone vulnerable.

Seriously, if people like you don't get that yet, we're all ****ed.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the concern everyone. My granny has since passed. It's tough to know what to do or how to feel with the restrictions meaning we're not able to do the usual funeral stuff. I'm doing okay considering. I'm not angry with the nursing home and think it was a case that they gave my family an inch and they took a mile. My mams family can be quite forceful about getting what they want and pushing for every inch. It's been tough dealing since the news came in cus the situation regarding ignoring social distancing is continuing. People are going in and out of the house all day, hugs and kisses the lot. My mam reminds me a bit of when she gives up smoking then starts to smoke again, one day it's just the 1 that she 'needs', the next day is 4 and soon enough it's back to 20. I think if she thinks if she says she's social distancing it makes it true. I've tried to gently remind her when she talks about plans for this and that person come over that people not obeying social distancing is exactly how granny died and we'd be disrespecting her by ignoring that and making other families go through what we are now too but it's like talking to a wall. She says but we take risks to go to the shops, I say the government told us we can do that, she storms around a bit then I just drop it cus I feel guilty for saying anything and don't want to make her feel any worse. I feel totally alone and like the bad guy cus nobody else will step in. She says she doesn't care if she gets it now but I've said to her that it's not her choice to decide if me or the rest of the family or anyone any of us may infect do. My dad just wants a peaceful life and goes along with whatever she says, my sister is happy cus if the rules are gone she gets to see her boyfriend, my brother is too young to care and wants to see his friends too. I feel totally alone and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with the death of my granny on top of all this. Part of me just wants to stop caring and say do what they like and I would normally. But this impacts others like it's literally life and death and we've experienced the death part now. I seriously don't know how it's not sinking in that this virus is not to be messed with. If it takes her mother and she still doesn't respect it I don't know what it'll take. I'm friends with Gardai they wouldn't know and I'm tempted to see if one of them will do me a favour and drop up to the house saying a neighbour had given them an anonymous tip of whats going on to give them a scare but again I feel guilty cus she's suffering and this stuff is okay normally. Ugh it's all just horrible.

the14thwarrior

It is horrible.
but this too will pass.
it sounds like you are doing your best in a bad situation.
if you have to stay there, and likely you do, just keep as much as possible out of people's way, wash your hands constantly and as much as you can around.

please god you or your family won't get the virus.
sadly everyone has to take responsiblity and it cannot be forced on them
i feel there is little point in talking to them anymore, the news and media is flooded with the virus and what to do, and they won't do it.

its all very horrible at the moment.
but brighter days will lie ahead
grieve for your granny, remember the good times
try not to get all worked up about the bad times that you are going through

AulWan

I am so sorry for your loss. May your grandmother rest in peace.

JustAThought

my heart goes out to you OP reading your posts and I am very sorry for your loss.

Try not to let your mother or family guilt you into getting close or going to the house or funeral home -it is terribly difficult but you arrive at the very last moment and could stand at the very back of the Church and pay your respects -I am sure your gran would not have wanted you to risk your long term health and life saying goodbye -she knew you loved and cherished her throughout your life -try and stay strong now and not be guilted into going and risking your health snd future.

Your prayers for her will be heard as well at home as from a funeral home or graveside -heartbreaking as it may be. Try and not let your mother dominate you into giving up your health.

I am very sorry for your situation and for your loss.

pinkyeye

So sorry for your loss OP but you most definitely need to report this to HIQA. Not only did your family endanger everyone in their own immediate circle but they endangered every single resident in that home.

Every toilet they used, every sink they used, every surface they touched added to the risks of the other residents contacting it. This is why the visitor restrictions were brought in.

Please contact HIQA immediately.

TheBoyConor

Definitely get on to hiqa about it.
However, if they have been shedding virus, it is likely already too late. They may have spread it directly or indirectly to others in the nursing home and outside also. For some of them, their fate is sealed even though they don't know it yet.