Truth about traveller crime

Working class heroes

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

Well, if you don't pay any taxes and haven't met any of them, fair enough.

Of course, you could be one of them.

That might explain things.

Apologies. I edited my last post after you replied.
For the record I am not a member of the travelling community.
Secondly I have met plenty and experienced both the good and bad side of “them”. And believe me the bad is worse than you could imagine.

I do pay taxes. Would you like me to pm you a copy of my last P60?

Filmer Paradise

Working class heroes wrote: »

Apologies. I edited my last post after you replied.
For the record I am not a member of the travelling community.
Secondly I have met plenty and experienced both the good and bad side of “them”. And believe me the bad is worse than you could imagine.

I do pay taxes. Would you like me to pm you a copy of my last P60?

Well sure you can send your p60 on to me if you wish. I'm a bit nosey about things like that.

If travellers were self sustaining & productive, I'm sure nobody would have a problem with them.

The thing is. They're not.

We pay their wages (dole,mickey money....yada yada)

We fund Pavee Point & the endless Quangos that advocate their 'rights'.

All the while the complain that there is not enough done for them..

Scream 'Racism' at every turn. Rob, steal from and intimidate anybody they see.

Make a mess & destroy the quality of life of honest communities countrywide.

WE PAY FOR THIS, REMEMBER?

Why not at least question this situation?

Vestiapx

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

Well sure you can send your p60 on to me if you wish. I'm a bit nosey about things like that.

If travellers were self sustaining & productive, I'm sure nobody would have a problem with them.

The thing is. They're not.

We pay their wages (dole,mickey money....yada yada)

We fund Pavee Point & the endless Quangos that advocate their 'rights'.

All the while the complain that there is not enough done for them..

Scream 'Racism' at every turn. Rob, steal from and intimidate anybody they see.

Make a mess & destroy the quality of life of honest communities countrywide.

WE PAY FOR THIS, REMEMBER?

Why not at least question this situation?

P60 is discontinued a couple of years now.

Working class heroes

punisher5112 wrote: »

You ok hun

I’m grand thanks.

Working class heroes

Vestiapx wrote: »

P60 is discontinued a couple of years now.

You must be out of work then. Sorry to hear that.

Working class heroes

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

Well sure you can send your p60 on to me if you wish. I'm a bit nosey about things like that.

If travellers were self sustaining & productive, I'm sure nobody would have a problem with them.

The thing is. They're not.

We pay their wages (dole,mickey money....yada yada)

We fund Pavee Point & the endless Quangos that advocate their 'rights'.

All the while the complain that there is not enough done for them..

Scream 'Racism' at every turn. Rob, steal from and intimidate anybody they see.

Make a mess & destroy the quality of life of honest communities countrywide.

WE PAY FOR THIS, REMEMBER?

Why not at least question this situation?

I get it. You don’t like travellers. Stop shouting please.
Plenty of travellers I don’t like. Plenty I do. Is that too hard a concept to grasp?

Filmer Paradise

Working class heroes wrote: »

I get it. You don’t like travellers. Stop shouting please.
Plenty of travellers I don’t like. Plenty I do. Is that too hard a concept to grasp?

I don't like travellers for the reasons I've given above.

The vast majority of them nowadays are violent ill mannered wasters who are subsidised and in some ways encouraged to continue with their worthless 'culture' by the State.

In return we get Zero but trouble from them.

Can you tell me what good are they to us as a society?

Who would miss them if they were all 'disappeared'?


As a taxpayer I find them hard to swallow.

How hard is that for you to grasp?

aligator_am

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Ryan Tubridy should Skype the makers of this documentary and get some travellers to join in on the chat. Similar to his interview with Peter Casey.
The could also get Jennifer Zamparelli Maguire to Tweet some random thing about the producers without any evidence of it happening.

Yes, and the most surefire way to get that skinny pox to go through with it is to tell him that these travellers are Trump supporters!

He'd be frothing at the mouth thinking of the prospects.

Working class heroes

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

I don't like travellers for the reasons I've given above.

The vast majority of them nowadays are violent ill mannered wasters who are subsidised and in some ways encouraged to continue with their worthless 'culture' by the State.

In return we get Zero but trouble from them.

Can you tell me what good are they to us as a society?

Who would miss them if they were all 'disappeared'?


As a taxpayer I find them hard to swallow.

How hard is that for you to grasp?

You do not speak for the entire society. Don be so presumptuous.

You should be ashamed of the rest of your post(reported). You obviously can not be civil so I’ll leave you with your bias.

Tokyo

Mod: @Filmer Paradise - You're entitled to your personal opinion, but you're using a pretty broad brush there. Knock it off.

Sandor Clegane

There are countless threads on boards disusing travelers, id reckon 90% plus are negative regarding them, at this point it cannot be argued that the vast majority contribute negatively to society, in their case its not the minority of trouble makers but very much the majority, you'll always get a handful of white knights who'll run to defend them no matter what.

collywobble7

Working class heroes wrote:

You do not speak for the entire society. Don be so presumptuous.

No he does speak for around 99% of us

Working class heroes

collywobble7 wrote: »

No he does speak for around 99% of us

Have you asked everyone?
I’ll assume not. So no, he/she does not.

Working class heroes

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

There are countless threads on boards disusing travelers, id reckon 90% plus are negative regarding them, at this point it cannot be argued that the vast majority contribute negatively to society, in their case its not the minority of trouble makers but very much the majority, you'll always get a handful of white knights who'll run to defend them no matter what.

I can only speak for myself but I don’t see anyone here defending anyone involved in crime. It’s the broad, bias generalisations I have a problem with.
Your post been no different imo.

PCeeeee

Working class heroes wrote: »

I can only speak for myself but I don’t see anyone here defending anyone involved in crime. It’s the broad, bias generalisations I have a problem with.
Your post been no different imo.

It is hard really to talk about any group without making some generalisations would you not agree?

Blaze420

Working class heroes wrote: »

I can only speak for myself but I don’t see anyone here defending anyone involved in crime. It’s the broad, bias generalisations I have a problem with.
Your post been no different imo.

It’s not really a generalisation if 9 out of 10 people have the exact same view is it? That would tell you there’s perhaps some truth to what you deem to be a generalisation and you are being disingenuous by attempting to white wash it.

Sultan of Bling

Could we have a poll?

Rockbeast2

If every traveller was given €1,000 per week social welfare;

If travellers were allowed to work legally and still receive all social welfare benefits;

If travellers were made exempt from paying any income tax and allowed to claim back any VAT paid on goods and service;

If every traveller was given the keys to a free six-bedroom house with a driveway to park a caravan in and stables and a field for horses to exercise out the back;

If all the above happened, even then I believe travellers would still have a massively disproportionate criminal and incarcerated element.

AND Pavee Point would still find something to complain about. It's a "squeaky wheel gets the grease" industry. They'll never admit they are in the wrong. It is just their nature.

Deebles McBeebles

Should be a question on the next census, "Travellers, yea or nay?"

Sean.3516

The problems of the travelling community have nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture.

When you have a group of people who have decided not to participate in normal society, live on the road not do not make their living through the normal economic transactions like everyone else, all as a matter of culture, is it any wonder that they commit a disproportionate amount of crime and are socially ostracised by everyone else? It's their own fault. They've existed as a separate community for centuries giving their community plenty of time to assimilate but they've decided not to.

The strategy to help them assimilate through outreach and welfare has failed. All it's done is incentivised them not to change when the Irish state has tried to integrate them while at the same time validating the culture that's the reason they live separately in the first place.

If you want to integrate them, economics + law enforcement is the best strategy. Remove all state sponsored aid to travellers and then have gardai crackdown on any criminal activity that their remaining income comes from. This will force them join the rest of society.

And don't give me "well we can't just erase a group of people's culture." Not all cultures are equally moral or valuable. The travelling community's culture is not beneficial to the state and we'd be better off without it.

end of the road

collywobble7 wrote: »

No he does speak for around 99% of us

nope, he doesn't.
he speaks for you and no doubt many others, but that is all.

Blaze420 wrote: »

It’s not really a generalisation if 9 out of 10 people have the exact same view is it? That would tell you there’s perhaps some truth to what you deem to be a generalisation and you are being disingenuous by attempting to white wash it.

yes, it can still be a generalisation as 9 out of 10 people having a view doesn't mean the view is correct or true.

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

If every traveller was given €1,000 per week social welfare;

If travellers were allowed to work legally and still receive all social welfare benefits;

If travellers were made exempt from paying any income tax and allowed to claim back any VAT paid on goods and service;

If every traveller was given the keys to a free six-bedroom house with a driveway to park a caravan in and stables and a field for horses to exercise out the back;

If all the above happened, even then I believe travellers would still have a massively disproportionate criminal and incarcerated element.

AND Pavee Point would still find something to complain about. It's a "squeaky wheel gets the grease" industry. They'll never admit they are in the wrong. It is just their nature.

pavee point's job is to highlight issues effecting the traveling community, and to advocate in terms of dealing with those issues, something they do seem to do quite well thankfully.

shaveAbullock

end of the road wrote: »

pavee point's job is to highlight issues effecting the traveling community, and to advocate in terms of dealing with those issues, something they do seem to do quite well thankfully.

I think the biggest issue is travellers not obtaining a secondary level education. What is pavee point's stance on this? How could it be addressed?

Blaze420

shaveAbullock wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is travellers not obtaining a secondary level education. What is pavee point's stance on this? How could it be addressed?

Pavee Pointless will never ever speak a single word against the negatives of the travelling community and if they do, it’s only to make out it’s someone else’s fault or that we all just wascists. A bigger waste of resources simply doesn’t exist that could match PP.

end of the road

Sean.3516 wrote: »

The problems of the travelling community have nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with culture.

When you have a group of people who have decided not to participate in normal society, live on the road not do not make their living through the normal economic transactions like everyone else, all as a matter of culture, is it any wonder that they commit a disproportionate amount of crime and are socially ostracised by everyone else? It's their own fault. They've existed as a separate community for centuries giving their community plenty of time to assimilate but they've decided not to.

The strategy to help them assimilate through outreach and welfare has failed. All it's done is incentivised them not to change when the Irish state has tried to integrate them while at the same time validating the culture that's the reason they live separately in the first place.

If you want to integrate them, economics + law enforcement is the best strategy. Remove all state sponsored aid to travellers and then have gardai crackdown on any criminal activity that their remaining income comes from. This will force them join the rest of society.

And don't give me "well we can't just erase a group of people's culture." Not all cultures are equally moral or valuable. The travelling community's culture is not beneficial to the state and we'd be better off without it.

actually, it is the fault of those who socially ostracise them all on the basis of the actions of some, something which the same individual wouldn't dare try with other groups as they wouldn't get away with it, that travelers who actually do try and live within society face the bigotry and all else they face.
and i will give you the we can't just erase a group of people's culture, because ultimately we can't, and people committing crime is not culture.
while the gardai as a matter of course should be cracking down more on criminal activity and the relevant funding and resources should be given to allow it, if someone is determined not to become part of society, then they will not do so no matter what, hence we will always have a cohort of criminals within society from all sorts of backgrounds unfortunately.

tayto lover

end of the road wrote: »

nope, he doesn't.
he speaks for you and no doubt many others, but that is all.



yes, it can still be a generalisation as 9 out of 10 people having a view doesn't mean the view is correct or true.



pavee point's job is to highlight issues effecting the traveling community, and to advocate in terms of dealing with those issues, something they do seem to do quite well thankfully.

Pavee Point’s first response seems to be - blame everybody else except the Travellers. Keep shouting things like racism, victimisation and cruelty against the Travelling community. Have you ever heard them come out and tell Travellers to stop drug dealing, beating their wives, making call-out videos, fighting and disrupting funerals, weddings and christenings, dumping their rubbish around the countryside, committing crimes against the elderly or against anybody else for that matter, to start educating themselves and their children? No they are always the victim.

Deebles McBeebles

end of the road wrote: »

pavee point's job is to highlight issues effecting the traveling community, and to advocate in terms of dealing with those issues, something they do seem to do quite well thankfully.

Now you can't really believe that? Highlighting PP as an effective group is quite funny actually. They do more harm than good for both "sides".

shaveAbullock

BTW what I think would happen if they started to stay in school until the age of 18 is they would start dating and even marring people that are not their cousins or related to them in any way.
This would mean they would fully integrate into the rest of society. Something Pavee Point would hate to see happen.

end of the road

shaveAbullock wrote: »

I think the biggest issue is travellers not obtaining a secondary level education. What is pavee point's stance on this? How could it be addressed?

i would expect the only way to address it in an actual effective manner, is to have people go out and bring them in to school, but lets be honest it would be hugely resource intensive and i can't imagine many would be willing to pay for it.
but it would at least get them in to school, i believe you must attend school until 18 now is that correct?

Blaze420 wrote: »

Pavee Pointless will never ever speak a single word against the negatives of the travelling community and if they do, it’s only to make out it’s someone else’s fault or that we all just wascists. A bigger waste of resources simply doesn’t exist that could match PP.

i would imagine that is not within their remit and it shouldn't be really as their job is to be an advocacy group and nothing more.
advocacy group as in highlighting issues members of the traveling community face.

the negatives of any badly behaved individual whether they be travelers or not already have remedies available to deal with them and the proper people, all be it not in enough numbers, to use those remedies.

Adam9213

suicide_circus wrote: »

Now are 70 armed gardai on standby for that funeral due to chronic discrimination or due to chronic criminality in the travelling community?

I'm sure there are decent travelers out there, although a very high proportion of them are crooks you could say the same thing about black communities in the states especially in the 80s or 90s, people who live next to a ghetto back then or today would be saying things along the same lines like they are all scum they're all criminals, which is true most of them probably are but there are some of them who are not so it's probably not fair to be labelling them all the same don't you think?

Adam9213

shaveAbullock wrote: »

BTW what I think would happen if they started to stay in school until the age of 18 is they would start dating and even marring people that are not their cousins or related to them in any way.
This would mean they would fully integrate into the rest of society. Something Pavee Point would hate to see happen.

Now if I was a young traveler I would hate society and would rob and steal from you no problems whatsoever, I would have the same attitude as young black people in the US in the 80s who had the same stereotypes put onto them.