Truth about traveller crime

Blaze420

Adam9213 wrote: »

Now if I was a young traveler I would hate society and would rob and steal from you no problems whatsoever, I would have the same attitude as young black people in the US in the 80s who had the same stereotypes put onto them.

Please don’t even try and compare the plight of black people in the US to ****ing Irish travellers, I’ve seen some nonsense on this site but that’s right up there. Travellers are given every support going and they continue to spit in our faces and **** it up for themselves, the black people had nothing but suppression and predjudice.

Rockbeast2

Adam9213 wrote: »

I'm sure there are decent travelers out there, although a very high proportion of them are crooks you could say the same thing about black communities in the states especially in the 80s or 90s, people who live next to a ghetto back then or today would be saying things along the same lines like they are all scum they're all criminals, which is true most of them probably are but there are some of them who are not so it's probably not fair to be labelling them all the same don't you think?

It is the community culture that holds them back.

In black communities you are seen as "acting white" if you try and improve yourself. In travelling communities you are seen as acting like a "settled person" if you get an education/job.

It's about time everyone faces the fact that these communities/cultures do not and will not ever want to partake in ours.

Stop dealing with them as if it's a negotiation that is leading to a resolution. It is not and it won't. We are being laughed at for handing them free stuff. You will never earn any respect that way.

* I do have the utmost respect for those that break the chains of their repressive communities/cultures. The chains are theirs, though, not ours.

end of the road

tayto lover wrote: »

Pavee Point’s first response seems to be - blame everybody else except the Travellers. Keep shouting things like racism, victimisation and cruelty against the Travelling community. Have you ever heard them come out and tell Travellers to stop drug dealing, beating their wives, making call-out videos, fighting and disrupting funerals, weddings and christenings, dumping their rubbish around the countryside, committing crimes against the elderly or against anybody else for that matter, to start educating themselves and their children? No they are always the victim.

they might very well be doing that behind closed doors, i do not know and tbh it's irrelevant to me.
ultimately it is the law enforcers who should be telling any members of the traveling community engaging in the above to stop doing it, and arrest them when they do it.

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Now you can't really believe that? Highlighting PP as an effective group is quite funny actually. They do more harm than good for both "sides".

i would suggest they are harming the side with unrealistic expectations of what an advocacy group for issues can really do, rather then those who the group advocate for.
the reason i say that is due to the services that have been implemented along with laws to try and deal with specific issues facing the traveling community, which i would expect may not have been implemented but for the advocacy of groups, which i would imagine pavee point are one of such groups.

shaveAbullock wrote: »

BTW what I think would happen if they started to stay in school until the age of 18 is they would start dating and even marring people that are not their cousins or related to them in any way.
This would mean they would fully integrate into the rest of society. Something Pavee Point would hate to see happen.

i can't see why pavee point would hate to see that happen.
it sounds to me like it would be the end game and the main reason, for the group ultimately being formed in the first place. the end game for all the work they were set up to achieve and do.
sure, anything is possible i guess, but i can't imagine them having an issue myself.

Fann Linn

Is it a culture, or just a lifestyle though?

Adam9213

Blaze420 wrote: »

Please don’t even try and compare the plight of black people in the US to ****ing Irish travellers, I’ve seen some nonsense on this site but that’s right up there. Travellers are given every support going and they continue to spit in our faces and **** it up for themselves, the black people had nothing but suppression and predjudice.

Well blacks had every support going in the 80s and now as well, I'm talking about a young traveller maybe only 12 years old growing up sees all these opinions and how people in general think of him just for who he is, you think that traveler is going to be respectful and a good member of society? Travelers have it worse with how people view them than black people have had in the US in the last 50 years.

shaveAbullock

end of the road wrote: »

i can't see why pavee point would hate to see that happen.
it sounds to me like it would be the end game and the main reason, for the group ultimately being formed in the first place. the end game for all the work they were set up to achieve and do.
sure, anything is possible i guess, but i can't imagine them having an issue myself.

But it is travellers themselves that are removing their children from education.
I have not heard pavee point address this. If they have what is their reasoning and what do they think could prevent this from happening?

Adam9213

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

It is the community culture that holds them back.

In black communities you are seen as "acting white" if you try and improve yourself. In travelling communities you are seen as acting like a "settled person" if you get an education/job.

It's about time everyone faces the fact that these communities/cultures do not and will not ever want to partake in ours.

Stop dealing with them as if it's a negotiation that is leading to a resolution. It is not and it won't. We are being laughed at for handing them free stuff. You will never earn any respect that way.

* I do have the utmost respect for those that break the chains of their repressive communities/cultures. The chains are theirs, though, not ours.

This thread seems quite snobby, truth is these kids have it 50 times harder to succeed in life for dozens of reasons not just the ones you said.

In your life it would probably have been 50 times harder for you to fail in life than it would be to succeed, but if succeeding means being a stuck up snob I'm sure a lot of people would actually rather fail.

Deebles McBeebles

end of the road wrote: »

i would suggest they are harming the side with unrealistic expectations of what an advocacy group for issues can really do, rather then those who the group advocate for.
the reason i say that is due to the services that have been implemented along with laws to try and deal with specific issues facing the traveling community, which i would expect may not have been implemented but for the advocacy of groups, which i would imagine pavee point are one of such groups.

I don't think anyone has unrealistic expectations for PP. Certainly, no one is looking to them to solve anything, but to be fair and address the problems that actually need addressing. The point of PP is to address traveller issues and to promote traveller rights. They do one side of that well. The other side of it is whitewashed.

Adam9213 wrote: »

Travelers have it worse with how people view them than black people have had in the US in the last 50 years.

PCeeeee

Adam9213 wrote: »

This thread seems quite snobby, truth is these kids have it 50 times harder to succeed in life for dozens of reasons not just the ones you said.

In your life it would probably have been 50 times harder for you to fail in life than it would be to succeed, but if succeeding means being a stuck up snob I'm sure a lot of people would actually rather fail.

Define succeed Adam please.

Adam9213

With the hatred I see for travelers on this thread and in general it's clear the only reason yous don't throw eggs or smear **** on their caravans is because yous would have your heads smashed in or get shot, or the reason their kids don't get bullied in school.

It's probably better for their sakes that they keep up this reputation.

Multipass

Adam9213 wrote: »

This thread seems quite snobby, truth is these kids have it 50 times harder to succeed in life for dozens of reasons not just the ones you said.

In your life it would probably have been 50 times harder for you to fail in life than it would be to succeed, but if succeeding means being a stuck up snob I'm sure a lot of people would actually rather fail.

You’re kind of right - in any other western country they would be removed from their parents, and given the right to an education. Letting them careen around main roads on sulkies is child neglect and child endangerment, the state should step in and save them from their culture.

Blaze420

Adam9213 wrote: »

With the hatred I see for travelers on this thread and in general it's clear the only reason yous don't throw eggs or smear **** on their caravans is because yous would have your heads smashed in or get shot.

It's probably better for their sakes that they keep up this reputation.

Way to back up your argument against generalising them there pal :rolleyes:

pablo128

Adam9213 wrote: »

With the hatred I see for travelers on this thread and in general it's clear the only reason yous don't throw eggs or smear **** on their caravans is because yous would have your heads smashed in or get shot, or the reason their kids don't get bullied in school.

It's probably better for their sakes that they keep up this reputation.

When you freely admit travellers have ready access to firearms and are willing to use them against members of the public, you've lost the argument.

Adam9213

Blaze420 wrote: »

Way to back up your argument against generalising them there pal :rolleyes:

I'm not generalising, that's fact if you done any of them things to travelers or to anyone at all with a set of balls you would have your head smashed in, how is that giving them a bad name?

Blaze420

Adam9213 wrote: »

I'm not generalising, that's fact if you done any of them things to travelers or to anyone at all with a set of balls you would have your head smashed in, how is that giving them a bad name?

I’ll say the same to you as I would to anybody who I’d suspect is a cosseted city dweller with limited experience of them - go live beside a halting site for a year or 2 and see how your opinion changes. It’s easy to pontificate when the closest you’ve ever been to dealing with them is probably seeing a sulky on a road somewhere.

Adam9213

pablo128 wrote: »

When you freely admit travellers have ready access to firearms and are willing to use them against members of the public, you've lost the argument.

Some of them do yes, does that mean everyone of them does?

Rockbeast2

Adam9213 wrote: »

This thread seems quite snobby, truth is these kids have it 50 times harder to succeed in life for dozens of reasons not just the ones you said.

In your life it would probably have been 50 times harder for you to fail in life than it would be to succeed, but if succeeding means being a stuck up snob I'm sure a lot of people would actually rather fail.

What people need to remember is that in the majority of western societies there is essentially no ceiling on social mobility, certainly within two generations.

But you have to put in the work.

Education. Education. Education. Sure, a young black kid might be a preternaturally gifted athlete or singer, but the odds are 100s of thousands to one against them being/becoming one. Same as they were for me.

Education. Education. Education. I don't even know to what young traveller kids aspire. Constantly amazed that the horse racing industry here which employs 14,000+ here isn't heavily populated by travellers. Where are all the traveller vets? Mechanics?

Social Welfare
Council house.
Free primary education.
Free secondary education.
Free college education.

There are the means for them to achieve whatever they want. Legally.

Oh, and those means? They were my means, too.

collywobble7

Adam9213 wrote:

This thread seems quite snobby, truth is these kids have it 50 times harder to succeed in life for dozens of reasons not just the ones you said.

And while people like you continue to make excuses for them they never will. You are enabling failure.

Adam9213

Blaze420 wrote: »

I’ll say the same to you as I would to anybody who I’d suspect is a cosseted city dweller with limited experience of them - go live beside a halting site for a year or 2 and see how your opinion changes. It’s easy to pontificate when the closest you’ve ever been to dealing with them is probably seeing a sulky on a road somewhere.

I know what travelers can be like, I've never met a decent one in my life but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

The same thing some people would have said in America years ago in the 80s about black people if someone tried to defend them "yeah buddy go live next to a black area and tell me that" which probably would be true the majority of them are probably scum but it doesn't mean they all are.

Blaze420

Adam9213 wrote: »

I know what travelers can be like, I've never met a decent one in my life but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

The same thing some people would have said in America years ago in the 80s about black people if someone tried to defend them "yeah buddy go live next to a black area and tell me that" which probably would be true the majority of them are probably scum but it doesn't mean they all are.

You are not making any sense at all comparing travellers to black people in the US, it is a ridiculous comparison and no amount of whataboutery will change that. Black people in the US were systemically discriminated against at every level, and that’s not even mentioning the whole slave thing.

Travellers meanwhile have every support thrown at them, from education opportunities to financial supports and they still turn around and throw 2 fingers to society. Oh and surprisingly they also know a bit about owning slaves as well, remember Dale Farm?

But yeah let’s keep comparing apples and onions.

Adam9213

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

What people need to remember is that in the majority of western societies there is essentially no ceiling on social mobility, certainly within two generations.

But you have to put in the work.

Education. Education. Education. Sure, a young black kid might be a preternaturally gifted athlete or singer, but the odds are 100s of thousands to one against them being/becoming one. Same as they were for me.

Education. Education. Education. I don't even know to what young traveller kids aspire. Constantly amazed that the horse racing industry here which employs 14,000+ here isn't heavily populated by travellers. Where are all the traveller vets? Mechanics?

Social Welfare
Council house.
Free primary education.
Free secondary education.
Free college education.

There are the means for them to achieve whatever they want. Legally.

Oh, and those means? They were my means, too.

People growing up in very deprived areas technically have all those same oppertunities as you, but people growing up in those deprived areas hardly ever do anywhere near as good as kids growing up in an area like yours even though they have the "same oppertunities", why is that?

I'm not just talking about travelers here in talking about deprived areas in general.

Adam9213

The thread title here is a bit misleading it should just be called "the traveller hate thread"

end of the road

shaveAbullock wrote: »

But it is travellers themselves that are removing their children from education.
I have not heard pavee point address this. If they have what is their reasoning and what do they think could prevent this from happening?

i don't know what they believe would prevent this from happening, ultimately that is a question they will only be able to answer.
however, the laws are already there to force education attendants, so apart from as i said having people come to specifically take the children to school, which is likely going to be unrealistic even though i would support it personally across the board where there are issues with education attendants, i am not sure what else could realistically be done that would work.

Multipass wrote: »

You’re kind of right - in any other western country they would be removed from their parents, and given the right to an education. Letting them careen around main roads on sulkies is child neglect and child endangerment, the state should step in and save them from their culture.

actually, they may not necessarily be removed from their parents, i guess it will depend on the specific case.

Adam9213

Blaze420 wrote: »

You are not making any sense at all comparing travellers to black people in the US, it is a ridiculous comparison and no amount of whataboutery will change that. Black people in the US were systemically discriminated against at every level, and that’s not even mentioning the whole slave thing.

Travellers meanwhile have every support thrown at them, from education opportunities to financial supports and they still turn around and throw 2 fingers to society. Oh and surprisingly they also know a bit about owning slaves as well, remember Dale Farm?

But yeah let’s keep comparing apples and onions.

I'm not referring to a black slave from the 1800s am I? I'm talking about say blacks from the 1980s, what's the difference there?

Black people then had every support thrown at them as well, there would still be white people with your same attitude "them god damn nig***s have every support thrown at them"

pablo128

Adam9213 wrote: »

People growing up in very deprived areas technically have all those same oppertunities as you, but people growing up in those deprived areas hardly ever do anywhere near as good as kids growing up in an area like yours even though they have the "same oppertunities", why is that?

I'm not just talking about travelers here in talking about deprived areas in general.

Rubbish. I grew up in a deprived area. My da was in an accident when I was 7 and was never able to work again. Me and my 4 brothers and sister all work. Most people from the area that I know work as well. A former classmate of mine is an elected TD. Other mates brothers went to Trinity. Ronanstown general area if you must know.

Adam9213

pablo128 wrote: »

Rubbish. I grew up in a deprived area. My da was in an accident when I was 7 and was never able to work again. Me and my 4 brothers and sister all work. Most people from the area that I know work as well. A former classmate of mine is an elected TD. Other mates brothers went to Trinity. Ronanstown general area if you must know.

I was comparing them to black areas in the 80s because I was talking about the discrimination and hatred they feel from society growing up.

Adam9213

pablo128 wrote: »

Rubbish. I grew up in a deprived area. My da was in an accident when I was 7 and was never able to work again. Me and my 4 brothers and sister all work. Most people from the area that I know work as well. A former classmate of mine is an elected TD. Other mates brothers went to Trinity. Ronanstown general area if you must know.

And anyways correct if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure ronanstown is the middle class part of clondalkin?

Blaze420

Adam9213 wrote: »

I'm not referring to a black slave from the 1800s am I? I'm talking about say blacks from the 1980s, what's the difference there?

Black people then had every support thrown at them as well, there would still be white people with your same attitude "them god damn nig***s have every support thrown at them"

My point is that black people in the 1980’s were still fighting racist oppression that was going on since the time of them being kept as slaves.

Remind me where your comparison here links to travellers? Did they have a Rosa Parks moment too or are you just talking absolute bollix that you know nothing about?

Rockbeast2

Adam9213 wrote: »

People growing up in very deprived areas technically have all those same oppertunities as you, but people growing up in those deprived areas hardly ever do anywhere near as good as kids growing up in an area like yours even though they have the "same oppertunities", why is that?

I'm not just talking about travelers here in talking about deprived areas in general.

Eh, I grew up on what was the no-go estate in a bad area with massive unemployment on Dublin's Northside.

I am doing very well now. My parents, although not together, both wanted me to do very well. Education. Education. Education. None of my family live on that estate now. None of us miss it. We all put in the effort. Social mobility.

* I will admit to always having a "good" accent. That may have been a
slight advantage later in life but my qualifications spoke for themselves. My family were not originally from the area. Needs must at the time.

pablo128

Adam9213 wrote: »

I was comparing them to black areas in the 80s because I was talking about the discrimination and hatred they feel from society growing up.

Mate you're doing nothing but making excuses for them. What they need is some tough love. We have tried the carrot and stick approach and it didn't work.

If they feel they can't get a job, there are grants out there and courses on how to start and run a business. For anyone, including travellers. They have no excuse.