Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

whisky_galore

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Ok, can Keelings confirm each is taken on as a PAYE worker?

Ring them up yourself and find out.

Thelonious Monk

blacklilly wrote: »

I must add, I don’t believe the Irish are lazy, however I believe the majority of Irish view themselves as being above picking strawberries for a living

It used to be a thing even up till the 90s were local kids would pick spuds etc when off school in North County Dublin. My friends from Skerries and Kinsealy did this, I doubt it happens now though.

Tenzor07

billie1b wrote: »

I work there and witnessed the bars being loaded by DHL for it.

DHL load bars on flights?? :rolleyes:

Atlantic Dawn

whisky_galore wrote: »

Ring them up yourself and find out.

I'd imagine if they want to put out this fire they will circulate to the media if they are.

Jinglejangle69

Loving the sudden concern for low paid workers from people who love nothing better than buying a bag of carrots in Aldi for 50 cent and think nothing of it.

RobertKK

Best of luck to the Bulgarians who are coming here to do an honest job.

There’s over 7 million people in Bulgaria and they’ve conducted just over 18,000 tests.

There’s nearly 5 million people in Ireland and as of 13th April we’d tested nearly 91,000 people.

In any other fruit picking season I would have no issue but while there’s a global pandemic emergency ongoing, we need to contain it in any way possible. Even the Bulgarian prime minister is worried about seasonal workers coming back to their home country and bringing the virus with them.

Danno

blacklilly wrote: »

So show me the que of Irish people that would do this work?

The 737-800 seats 162 passengers in a two-class layout or 189 passengers in a one-class layout. Most of Ryanair planes are... 737-800s

Keelings admitted on their press release that exactly, wait for it... 189 workers arrived today.

The fact that these folks were packed in on a flight CHARTERED by Keelings is the issue.

They weren't even on the ground in Dublin and they have already broken restrictions.

If you buy the rest of the muck that these 189 folks will be isolated for fourteen days before picking a berry, you're gullible.

They'll be picking berries in just over six and a half hours time. (7am).

I've no issue with bringing in seasonal workers for this task, but the company has flouted much of the Governments health advice.

Graham

Rows Grower wrote: »

Would you ever go away and cop on to your self please?

Do you have any comprehension of what others are sacrificing for us?

Some of us have family in the front line, some have family that have passed away and you are ranting on trying to justify a plane load of people being brought into our country to pick strawberries?

You disgust me.

You are assuming I have no family on the front line.

You are assuming the population is suddenly going to willingly give-up all non-essential products and still happily remain at home.

It is probably fair to say you are making all of those assumptions (incorrect and correct) from a home stocked with products purchase in the last 2 months that are almost certainly not all essential.

It's probably worth considering for a while what the next few weeks will be like for the entire country/continent if governments suddenly restrict food products to essentials only.

At that point you may concur, placing food restrictions on an already restricted populace is probably not the best move.

bigroad

There are plenty of companies at this craic.
The haulage industry has been at this for many a year.

Alrigghtythen

The company added it was also recruiting local workers to pick crops on its farm along with other roles within the business.



Im sure all the eager beavers on the thread will be applying

blacklilly

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It used to be a thing even up till the 90s were local kids would pick spuds etc when off school in North County Dublin. My friends from Skerries and Kinsealy did this, I doubt it happens now though.

I did it quite a few times as a child, got paid pennies but have great memories from doing it.
I really hope this doesn’t have too much of a negative financial impact on keelings. Would be terrible if the response of Irish people meant an Irish company folds

Rows Grower

Graham wrote: »

You are assuming I have no family on the front line.

You are assuming the population is suddenly going to willingly give-up all non-essential products and still happily remain at home.

It is probably fair to say you are making all of those assumptions (incorrect and correct) from a home stocked with products purchase in the last 2 months that are almost certainly not all essential.

It's probably worth considering for a while what the next few weeks will be like for the entire country/continent if governments suddenly restrict food products to essentials only.

At that point you may concur, placing food restrictions on an already restricted populace is probably not the best move.

I'm not assuming anything, I read your contributions and you disgust me with your ignorance.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

They wouldn't. It's illegal immigrants in the USA, backpackers and seasonal imports in Australia and NZ, Africans in Spain, etc.
Rich countries don't do this work any more.

They didn't do it in the 80s either, I grew up in the area where keelings is and they used to take on school kids, from ten years old and up for the strawberry picking.

If I remember correctly they paid a pound a day.
I got twice that for working on my uncle's farm with dinner thrown in as did anyone else my age that he took on and that was just to harvest potatoes.

DelaneyIn

Are these workers paid Irish minimum wage, or are they paid a by sub contractor in their home country?

Graham

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'm not assuming anything, I read your contributions and you disgust me with your ignorance.

And yet you haven't been able to refute any of my points, offer sensible alternatives or offer a compelling argument as to how/why I'm wrong.

Jinglejangle69

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Are these workers paid Irish minimum wage, or are they paid a by sub contractor in their home country?

You gonna stop buying cheap products now?

Covid19

Covid19 wrote: »

F"$#@ the strawberries.

Tenzor07

Danno wrote: »

The fact that these folks were packed in on a flight CHARTERED by Keelings is the issue.
They weren't even on the ground in Dublin and they have already broken restrictions.
If you buy the rest of the muck that these 189 folks will be isolated for fourteen days before picking a berry, you're gullible.
They'll be picking berries in just over six and a half hours time. (7am).
I've no issue with bringing in seasonal workers for this task, but the company has flouted much of the Governments health advice.

As there's no scheduled commercial flights in the EU then a charter makes sense, the agency who sent them would most likely have arranged a charter flight anyways to bring everyone in.

Your comments suggest that all of this was done without consulting the authorities in Ireland, seems unbelieveable to me...

RobertKK

I have a friend from Eastern Europe who is taking up a job on the seas, he will have 14 days quarantine before he sails and he was telling me in total before he starts his job, he will have done two stints of 14 day quarantine.

Atlantic Dawn

I was pissed off when I saw the travellers on RTE News yesterday attending a funeral with zero social distancing, this is worse.

martingriff

ruwithme wrote: »

Completely understandable why keelings would bring in worker's from abroad. in 2 weeks time these workers will hit the ground running.

sure isn't anyone who was in employment in Ireland prior to lockdown in receipt of social welfare payment for now.

Unlikely would give that up for a few weeks picking fruit and be unavailable to your employer should things change positively in the weeks ahead.

Bingo. Lets say on the 5th Shaws BT and clothes shop open where will Kelling be. Who knows there maybe some legal problems with going for a job while off work due to the virus and what they can claim and maybe give back.

I also agree there be a fair few who would not do it anyway

Scotty #

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Are these workers paid Irish minimum wage, or are they paid a by sub contractor in their home country?

They are paid on piece work. That is, they are paid according to how much they produce. This is a great method of paying staff because it means you get no slackers. These folks will work every hour they are allowed and the good ones will earn huge money.

I lived beside Keelings for years. These workers will spend no time mingling in the local community. They work, they sleep, they work. They'll basically be self isolating all summer as they do every year.

At the end of the season they will move on to do they same thing throughout the winter somewhere else and return next summer.

The downside is, they don't contribute a lot to the local economy.

Jinglejangle69

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I was pissed off when I saw the travellers on RTE News yesterday attending a funeral with zero social distancing, this is worse.

First the foreigners, now the travellers.

Wonder who's next.

GT89

Beyond a joke now at this stage

Tenzor07

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

First the foreigners, now the travellers.

Wonder who's next.

5G mast installation engineers?

Danno

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Your comments suggest that all of this was done without consulting the authorities in Ireland, seems unbelieveable to me...

Any busses and trains running in Ireland have most seats closed off to maintain distancing.

This plane had all its 189 seats filled.

Irish authorities are very lax when it comes to international travel... for some strange reason while motorway checkpoints are setup all over Ireland.

Tenzor07

Danno wrote: »

Irish authorities are very lax when it comes to international travel... for some strange reason while motorway checkpoints are setup all over Ireland.

There's no regular scheduled commercial flights into Ireland currently.

Scotty #

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'm not assuming anything, I read your contributions and you disgust me with your ignorance.

You clearly don't understand why these workers had to be brought in. Food must be produced, even strawberries. They're as important as any other particular food. If you don't have a local workforce, then one must be brought in. Keeling aren't the first and won't be the last to do it.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Danno wrote: »

Any busses and trains running in Ireland have most seats closed off to maintain distancing.

This plane had all its 189 seats filled.

Irish authorities are very lax when it comes to international travel... for some strange reason while motorway checkpoints are setup all over Ireland.

But all these people are staying in one group for isolation, they aren't all moving off individually

Atlantic Dawn

Tenzor07 wrote: »

There's no regular scheduled commercial flights into Ireland currently.

There are plenty, have a look at Ryanair.com.

Atlantic Dawn

Xander Alive Dune wrote: »

But all these people are staying in one group for isolation, they aren't all moving off individually

At what confirmed central location for 189 people? Will their food and entertainment arrive via Wifi?

Covid19

Scotty # wrote: »

You clearly don't understand why these workers had to be brought in. Food must be produced, even strawberries. They're as important as any other particular food. If you don't have a local workforce, then one must be brought in. Keeling aren't the first and won't be the last to do it.

In normal times yes. Not during a bloody pandemic.

Danno

Tenzor07 wrote: »

There's no regular scheduled commercial flights into Ireland currently.

I didn't imply there was currently any commercial flights.

For much of March when there was commercial flights, there were virtually no restrictions - for a virus that had to have come in on a flight or a ferry.

Secondly, did you see the Dublin Airport footage of these 189 going through arrivals? No 2m social distancing at all.

My point about this whole debacle is the lax implementation of restrictions for foreign national workers arriving, while our own citizens are having their shopping bags checked. (perhaps theyre making sure we bought Keelings?)

Seems overtly lopsided, wouldn't you agree?

bigroad

Do the Irish government get a few quid from the euro union for taking workers in from poor euro countries.

Graham

Be careful what you protest for.

Farmers across Europe are warning that crops will be left to rot in fields in the absence of the usual migrant workers that arrive at picking season.

It may only be Strawberries for now but don't think for a second that's the only product that will be in short supply if a complete ban on migrant workers is implemented.

Spain, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the UK. The need for pickers is only going to increase over the coming weeks.

Scotty #

Covid19 wrote: »

In normal times yes. Not during a bloody pandemic.

That's when they're needed most!

(The workers that is, not the strawberries )

Tenzor07

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

There are plenty, have a look at Ryanair.com.

99% of RA's fleet are grounded with limited flights until the 23rd and a 14 day quarantine period for returning travellers.

Danno

Xander Alive Dune wrote: »

But all these people are staying in one group for isolation, they aren't all moving off individually

So, if even one of them has/gets Covid-19 then some north Dublin hospital is likely to see a notable jump in admission.

Does Keelings have health insurance in place for such an event should it happen?

billie1b

Tenzor07 wrote: »

DHL load bars on flights?? :rolleyes:

Yes, their base is just up the road from the airport and they are contracted with Ryanair for all bars and catering going onto and coming off flights, that, OCS and fuelling are the only things Ryanair ground crew don’t do in Dublin.

Melanchthon

Economically what's the rational behind this being exempted. As far as I know all outdoor construction sites are closed which is a far bigger impactor on the economy than the strawberry crop. Strawberries aren't an essential service, this doesn't make much sense really from a pandemic point of view or a economic point of view, 188 construction workers will out far more money into the Irish economy than 188 migrant workers with no more risk provided social distancing is observed and arguably the service they provide is as important as strawberries being on the supermarket shelf.
I agree that outdoor construction probably should close but I don't see why this situation is happening at the same time.

Scotty #

Danno wrote: »

So, if even one of them has/gets Covid-19 then...

and the very same could be said about any large food processing plant in the country.

Tenzor07

billie1b wrote: »

Yes, their base is just up the road from the airport and they are contracted with Ryanair for all bars and catering going onto and coming off flights, that, OCS and fuelling are the only things Ryanair ground crew don’t do in Dublin.

So the flight came from Bulgaria, therefore DHL up the road from Dublin airport didn't load any booze onto the charter flight.

Skylinehead

Melanchthon wrote: »

Economically what's the rational behind this being exempted.

It's food. We need food.

There's no special exemption needed here.

Graham

Melanchthon wrote: »

Economically what's the rational behind this being exempted

I don't think it's economic.

It's essential.


From the Financial Times 3 days ago.


Josef Schmidhuber, deputy director of the UN Food and Agriculture Organization’s trade and markets division, said: “In developed countries which rely on immigrant labour, if the [coronavirus] crisis lasts for two months, the impact will be very severe.”

The numbers involved are substantial:

France is short of about 200,000 workers until the end of May
Spain has a shortfall of 70,000 to 80,000.
Italy needs about 250,000 seasonal workers in the next two months
the UK normally receives 70,000 to 80,000 over the season
Germany 300,000

ted1

Scotty # wrote: »

They are paid on piece work. That is, they are paid according to how much they produce. This is a great method of paying staff because it means you get no slackers. These folks will work every hour they are allowed and the good ones will earn huge money.

I lived beside Keelings for years. These workers will spend no time mingling in the local community. They work, they sleep, they work. They'll basically be self isolating all summer as they do every year.

At the end of the season they will move on to do they s thing throughout the winter somewhere else and return next summer.

The downside is, they don't contribute a lot to the local economy.

Sounds pretty much like how slaves worked. Read what you said and tell me who that is allowed in modern Ireland.

Because you leave lives beside it for so long you have become blind.

Scotty #

Melanchthon wrote: »

Economically what's the rational behind this being exempted. As far as I know all outdoor construction sites are closed which is a far bigger impactor on the economy than the strawberry crop. Strawberries aren't an essential service, this doesn't make much sense really from a pandemic point of view or a economic point of view, 188 construction workers will out far more money into the Irish economy than 188 migrant workers with no more risk provided social distancing is observed and arguably the service they provide is as important as strawberries being on the supermarket shelf.
I agree that outdoor construction probably should close but I don't see why this situation is happening at the same time.

OK, Keelings don't only produce strawberries. The process a whole range of fruit. Are we to deem all fruit unnecessary? What about vegetables? They also process a huge range of veg.

Mrs Shuttleworth

So let me get this, persons ordinarily resident in the State (as the legislation reads) are not permitted to leave their place of residence under threat of prosecution but anyone from overseas not ordinarily resident in the State can freely enter and exit and transit through its ports and airports and move about within the territory of the State with no such restrictions?

Just who or what exactly is this "lockdown" facilitating?

Atlantic Dawn

Some reporter better ask questions about this at tomorrow's press conference.

Melanchthon

Skylinehead wrote: »

It's food. We need food.

There's no special exemption needed here.

Do we need Irish strawberries more than we need more houses? Not all food stuffs are the same, people go without Irish strawberries for most of the year.