Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

Bass Reeves

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you seen who america elected president??

Casual/low paid immigration and its effect on jobs has drove that country nuts

A red herring. Minimum wages in america varies from 5-13 US dollars. Some states have even lower wages where tips form part of the wage. In this senario the MW can be low as 25-50% of the normal minimum wage. It is lowest in states that are generally republican voting you could say you get what you vote for.

plodder

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you seen who america elected president??

Casual/low paid immigration and its effect on jobs has drove that country nuts

America has had low paid immigrants going back centuries. They cannot be blamed for Trump. Every developed country has immigrants doing low paid jobs, and high paid ones too.

To say that Irish J1'ers are part of the cause of Trump, is just the same hysterical over reaction to casual immigrants from Bulgaria here (notwithstanding the health concern).

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A red herring. Minimum wages in america varies from 5-13 US dollars. Some states have even lower wages where tips form part of the wage. In this senario the MW can be low as 25-50% of the normal minimum wage. It is lowest in states that are generally republican voting you could say you get what you vote for.

They can pay immigrants less afaik,using same bed & board trick keelings use here??


America is a sh1thole for poor people,who rightly or wrongly have reasoned immigration is causing wages to drop??


They may be horrible racists among them,but they arent wrong....its fundamental need for capitalism to need an excess of labour/proverty to keep wages/costs down


The fact we are immediately citing min wage laws,is immidiately obvious

Bass Reeves

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The fact we are immediately citing min wage laws,is immidiately obvious

The Irish Minimum wage is the second highest in the EU. I am citing it as a fact. It is immediately obvious that a Bulgarian worker coming to Ireland is a better off than one going to the UK, Germany or Holland. They are way better off compared to a Mexican picking fruit in the Florida or one milking cows in Wyoming.

We do not need to apologise over it.

On accommodation it is blindingly obvious that migrant workers could not compete for accommodation in the Irish market along the east coast. Fruit producers not just Keeling's put that accomodation in place. If fed and found for sub 100/ week this would be competitive from an Irish perceptive for 7 day good and lodgings.

plodder

Exactly, I've no problem with our minimum wage. As I said before, one consequence of it, is that certain types of work can't be done here. I would say fruit picking is right on the edge, and it seems like some people would be happier if we stopped that as well, and just imported it all, for a lot less trouble.

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The Irish Minimum wage is the second highest in the EU. I am citing it as a fact. It is immediately obvious that a Bulgarian worker coming to Ireland is a better off than one going to the UK, Germany or Holland. They are way better off compared to a Mexican picking fruit in the Florida or one milking cows in Wyoming.

We do not need to apologise over it.

I was talking about min wage in US states,following line of conversation yous brought in....but way to shift focus,wild!!



But we can and should do better for the.immigrants coming here imo,bump up min wage for seasonal/short term fruit picking/agri work to e15 an hour perhaps??


Keelings dont even pay their taxes here,afaik its a isle of man based for tax purposes,

Bass Reeves

I must go away and do some essential work. No doubt some poster will claim after posting some rubbish that I ran away from there idealogical post which has no basis on reality

Scotty #

My Mrs runs a health sector related business in Dublin. 70 or so employees. She gets 20-30 job applicants a week despite the fact that she has not advertised any vacancies. During the recession this would have been 70-100 applicants per week. This is for a low paid job that most people wouldn't have the stomach for and you must have a range of qualifications and Garda vetting for.

I run a small business in Ashbourne, <8 employees. We haven't advertised a vacancy in years but I still get three or four CV's emailed to me every week despite no 'jobs' or 'careers' page or advertisements. Over the last 15 years or so I've had maybe 50 people knock on the door and ask could they hand in their CV? Incidentally, of these 50 or so not a single one of them was from an Irish person.

Keelings have been in St. Margaret's for decades. There's not a single adult in Ballymun, Finglas, Swords, St. Margarets, or Ashbourne who is not familiar with them and most of these people know that Keelings, just like every other agri-business, are going to have a spate of jobs on offer come May.

Could Keelings have made a greater effort to seek local workers, absolutely. Would they have found 900 willing to take the job? Not a chance! Keelings and other food producers know this from years of experience. It's the very same throughout Europe. It's temporary, low paid, weather dependant, laboursome work where to earn good money you have to work really hard. It's just not appealing to the resident workforce. It suits the Bulgarians because they get to return to their homes after the summer with more than a years, not just more than a years minimum wage salary but more than a years average salary in their back pocket!

Incidentally, in a normal year, if our hotels/tourism were open we'd be flying tens of thousands of extra workers in, not just the few thousand we need to keep the food chain going.

If they paid higher rates would they attract more locals? Yes, of course. But the Supermarket decides the price. Of that price (if beef and dairy are anything to go by) the supermarket gets at least 50%. I don't know how much producers get per punnet but I would imagine that even a small increase in wage rates would make the business untenable. It would spell the end of Irish tomatoes, lettuce, apples, etc, etc. Remember they're also competing against imported produce too.

I'm not condoning any of the above. I'm just saying that's the way it is.

KyussB

Bass Reeves wrote: »

...

The point about hiring locally, is that they can successfully do this by offering a high enough wage.

This leads into another strain of discussion, that when unemployment is high, there should be labour market protections so that local unemployed are hired first, to reduce unemployment and avoid depressing wages.
Some people argue this contravenes freedom of movement, others - me - argue that the rules allow this.

On minimum wage: For practical reasons, these workers are forced to buy services from Keelings for accommodation - Keelings have deliberately set it up this way. It's a way of working around minimum wage laws.

Setting the level of minimum wage is a political decision - these workers have no influence on it.

These workers do not move here - people opposing complaints about Keelings, explicitly don't want them to, because then they'd have to be paid a higher wage to meet the cost of living.

Rows Grower

Scotty # wrote: »

My Mrs runs a health sector related business in Dublin. 70 or so employees. She gets 20-30 job applicants a week despite the fact that she has not advertised any vacancies. During the recession this would have been 70-100 applicants per week. This is for a low paid job that most people wouldn't have the stomach for and you must have a range of qualifications and Garda vetting for.

I run a small business in Ashbourne, <8 employees. We haven't advertised a vacancy in years but I still get three or four CV's emailed to me every week despite no 'jobs' or 'careers' page or advertisements. Over the last 15 years or so I've had maybe 50 people knock on the door and ask could they hand in their CV? Incidentally, of these 50 or so not a single one of them was from an Irish person.

Keelings have been in St. Margaret's for decades. There's not a single adult in Ballymun, Finglas, Swords, St. Margarets, or Ashbourne who is not familiar with them and most of these people know that Keelings, just like every other agri-business, are going to have a spate of jobs on offer come May.

Could Keelings have made a greater effort to seek local workers, absolutely. Would they have found 900 willing to take the job? Not a chance! Keelings and other food producers know this from years of experience. It's the very same throughout Europe. It's temporary, low paid, weather dependant, laboursome work where to earn good money you have to work really hard. It's just not appealing to the resident workforce. It suits the Bulgarians because they get to return to their homes after the summer with more than a years, not just more than a years minimum wage salary but more than a years average salary in their back pocket!

Incidentally, in a normal year, if our hotels/tourism were open we'd be flying tens of thousands of extra workers in, not just the few thousand we need to keep the food chain going.

If they paid higher rates would they attract more locals? Yes, of course. But the Supermarket decides the price. Of that price (if beef and dairy are anything to go by) the supermarket gets at least 50%. I don't know how much producers get per punnet but I would imagine that even a small increase in wage rates would make the business untenable. It would spell the end of Irish tomatoes, lettuce, apples, etc, etc. Remember they're also competing against imported produce too.

I'm not condoning any of the above. I'm just saying that's the way it is.

Scotty, Scotty, Scotty... you are ignoring the whole point of why people are up in arms with Keelings.

They flew in 189 workers on a chartered flight during a world pandemic ignoring all guidelines that the whole of Ireland was taking very seriously so these people could pick strawberries to keep Keelings multi million euro company in the profits they are accustomed to.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Alrigghtythen

You cant talk the berries off plants
Time to cash the checks mouths have been writing and walk the walk

Quantum Erasure

Rows Grower wrote: »

Scotty, Scotty, Scotty... you are ignoring the whole point of why people are up in arms with Keelings.

They flew in 189 workers on a chartered flight during a world pandemic ignoring all guidelines that the whole of Ireland was taking very seriously so these people could pick strawberries to keep Keelings multi million euro company in the profits they are accustomed to.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It was either fly in workers, or let the fruit rot

weldoninhio

Scotty # wrote: »

My Mrs runs a health sector related business in Dublin. 70 or so employees. She gets 20-30 job applicants a week despite the fact that she has not advertised any vacancies. During the recession this would have been 70-100 applicants per week. This is for a low paid job that most people wouldn't have the stomach for and you must have a range of qualifications and Garda vetting for.

I run a small business in Ashbourne, <8 employees. We haven't advertised a vacancy in years but I still get three or four CV's emailed to me every week despite no 'jobs' or 'careers' page or advertisements. Over the last 15 years or so I've had maybe 50 people knock on the door and ask could they hand in their CV? Incidentally, of these 50 or so not a single one of them was from an Irish person.

Keelings have been in St. Margaret's for decades. There's not a single adult in Ballymun, Finglas, Swords, St. Margarets, or Ashbourne who is not familiar with them and most of these people know that Keelings, just like every other agri-business, are going to have a spate of jobs on offer come May.

Could Keelings have made a greater effort to seek local workers, absolutely. Would they have found 900 willing to take the job? Not a chance! Keelings and other food producers know this from years of experience. It's the very same throughout Europe. It's temporary, low paid, weather dependant, laboursome work where to earn good money you have to work really hard. It's just not appealing to the resident workforce. It suits the Bulgarians because they get to return to their homes after the summer with more than a years, not just more than a years minimum wage salary but more than a years average salary in their back pocket!

Incidentally, in a normal year, if our hotels/tourism were open we'd be flying tens of thousands of extra workers in, not just the few thousand we need to keep the food chain going.

If they paid higher rates would they attract more locals? Yes, of course. But the Supermarket decides the price. Of that price (if beef and dairy are anything to go by) the supermarket gets at least 50%. I don't know how much producers get per punnet but I would imagine that even a small increase in wage rates would make the business untenable. It would spell the end of Irish tomatoes, lettuce, apples, etc, etc. Remember they're also competing against imported produce too.

I'm not condoning any of the above. I'm just saying that's the way it is.

Surely if Keelings refused to sell to the supermarket at a below cost price, the government would have to step in and get the ESSENTIAL food onto the shelves, no??

KyussB

Scotty # wrote: »

My Mrs runs a health sector related business in Dublin. 70 or so employees. She gets 20-30 job applicants a week despite the fact that she has not advertised any vacancies. During the recession this would have been 70-100 applicants per week. This is for a low paid job that most people wouldn't have the stomach for and you must have a range of qualifications and Garda vetting for.

I run a small business in Ashbourne, <8 employees. We haven't advertised a vacancy in years but I still get three or four CV's emailed to me every week despite no 'jobs' or 'careers' page or advertisements. Over the last 15 years or so I've had maybe 50 people knock on the door and ask could they hand in their CV? Incidentally, of these 50 or so not a single one of them was from an Irish person.

Keelings have been in St. Margaret's for decades. There's not a single adult in Ballymun, Finglas, Swords, St. Margarets, or Ashbourne who is not familiar with them and most of these people know that Keelings, just like every other agri-business, are going to have a spate of jobs on offer come May.

Could Keelings have made a greater effort to seek local workers, absolutely. Would they have found 900 willing to take the job? Not a chance! Keelings and other food producers know this from years of experience. It's the very same throughout Europe. It's temporary, low paid, weather dependant, laboursome work where to earn good money you have to work really hard. It's just not appealing to the resident workforce. It suits the Bulgarians because they get to return to their homes after the summer with more than a years, not just more than a years minimum wage salary but more than a years average salary in their back pocket!

Incidentally, in a normal year, if our hotels/tourism were open we'd be flying tens of thousands of extra workers in, not just the few thousand we need to keep the food chain going.

If they paid higher rates would they attract more locals? Yes, of course. But the Supermarket decides the price. Of that price (if beef and dairy are anything to go by) the supermarket gets at least 50%. I don't know how much producers get per punnet but I would imagine that even a small increase in wage rates would make the business untenable. It would spell the end of Irish tomatoes, lettuce, apples, etc, etc. Remember they're also competing against imported produce too.

I'm not condoning any of the above. I'm just saying that's the way it is.

If the work requires a bunch of qualifications and is difficult (to the point that most people wouldn't have the stomach for it) - then it should not be low pay, it should be paid better...

The only reason you get to pay such a low wage - and have those workers subsidize your business, by not being paid appropriately - is because the economy is built to maintain a persistent rate of unemployment, that keeps wages depressed.

You know perfectly well that Keelings has no problem finding local workers, by offering a high enough wage - and that they would have to, if the country had proper labour market protections.

Hard work - whatever the type, skilled and unskilled - deserves higher pay. When people have to give significantly more than their minimum - they deserve significantly more than the minimum wage.

KyussB

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

It was either fly in workers, or let the fruit rot

Or pay high enough wages to get locals to pick the fruit...

The one thing people are continuously wilfully blind to.

Scotty #

Rows Grower wrote: »

Scotty, Scotty, Scotty... you are ignoring the whole point of why people are up in arms with Keelings.

I agree. The thread has gone way off topic.

Rows Grower wrote: »

They flew in 189 workers on a chartered flight during a world pandemic ignoring all guidelines...

Their travel was sanctioned by our government.

Our Minister for Agriculture wrote:

According to a speaking note, seen by RTÉ News, Mr Creed highlighted the importance of maintaining the free movement of labour which was "particularly important in ensuring the continued effective functioning of agri-food supply chains".

He called on the commission to ensure that "border checks do not unnecessarily disrupt the free movement of goods or labour", especially when it came to agri-food supply chains.

He said: "The key priority for all of us is to take the necessary steps to ensure that producers and processors can continue to operate effectively, that supply lines can be kept open, that we continue to feed people, and that the economic impact on the agri-food and fisheries sectors can be minimised."

It seems your outrage should be aimed more at government and their decisions than at fruit farmers, no?

Some posters see it as nothing more than the ability to have a few strawberries on their porridge. I see the failure of our summer harvest as a much much bigger issue. Thankfully our government agrees with my view.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Graham wrote: »

Where do you get the statistic that 1 fruit picker is going to infect 1 other person?

Making up numbers really isn't doing much for the point you're trying to make.

I'd say it's far higher actually but I've gone with a conservative figure.

We are told that the point of social distancing and the lockdown is to flatten the curve - to halt the amount of people that an infected person can come into contact - which will slow the reproductive rate of the virus. Dr Kim Roberts, a virologist, talks about it here:

The Journal wrote:

To limit the spread of the infection, Kim Roberts explained that reducing social interactions can have a huge influence on numbers.

“If we assume everyone who has Covid-19 will pass the virus on to an average of 2.5 people, and that transmission occurs on average five days after exposure, then within a month a single infected person can contribute to the infection of 244 people,” she said.

“If the transmission rate is reduced to 50% and each infected person instead passes the virus on to an average of 1.25 people then in a month, that infected person only contributes to the infection of four people.”

The latter part is, of course, assuming you do socially distance and isolate, that you haven't travelled on a packed airplane and are not now living with at least 1 person in a bedroom with 6-8 people in your apartment. Those sharing a bedroom in the "family units" are most at risk and if they get sick or are sick then their roommate is that 1 other person who can be infected.

Graham

Rows Grower wrote: »

Scotty, Scotty, Scotty... you are ignoring the whole point of why people are up in arms with Keelings.

Most level headed people aren't up in arms with Keelings.

It's probably fair to say most people are either blissfully unaware or really don't care.

Outside of the vociferous few, the Facebook mob will move on to the next outrage-a-thon and crops will be harvested either by locals or additional migrant agricultural workers.

Quantum Erasure

KyussB wrote: »

Or pay high enough wages to get locals to pick the fruit...

The one thing people are continuously wilfully blind to.

It's all very ideological with you. And I usually agree with your ideas, in theory. But the actual real world, right now, is different

maestroamado

Sure our Irish mammy's couldn't have their little dotes getting their hands and knees dirty.
We have lost the manual work Irish people were well known for.
Someone should create an app for it and we all in there...

KyussB

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

It's all very ideological with you. And I usually agree with your ideas, in theory. But the actual real world, right now, is different

I doubt any poster could pin me down as any particular ideology.

I just have an interest in economic issues, where most people are bored by economics - which leads to me understanding the faults in economic systems, and how to fix them (including understanding of many faults/fixes that are completely alien to most people).

Nothing ideological about it - just applied problem solving, with a wide understanding of economic problems + fixes - and all of it aimed at incrementally fixing problems in the real world.

Scotty #

KyussB wrote: »

If the work requires a bunch of qualifications and is difficult (to the point that most people wouldn't have the stomach for it) - then it should not be low pay, it should be paid better...

I 100% agree with you. The employment system is not fair, it never has been and it never will be.

A friend of mine started work with a new small utility company to Ireland last year, she has experience in the industry but was going for a job she's never done before. 40 hours training. Works from home. She gets X amount of of work to do each week and when she's done she's done. A very handy number. She started on €67,000 a year. Look at what a Luas driver earns! School bus drivers are paid more than teachers! Our Garda are on terrible money. Our child care workers... the list is endless. I agree with your point but I don't think it will ever change.

Alrigghtythen

maestroamado wrote: »

Sure our Irish mammy's couldn't have their little dotes getting their hands and knees dirty.
We have lost the manual work Irish people were well known for.
Someone should create an app for it and we all in there...

There was one report in the paper from a farmer who had a load of local students employed. The parents showed up before 10:30 to collect them because it started raining.

Scotty #

lol, incidentally, the minimum wage for under 18's is €7.07. If the farmers really wanted to maximise profits they could just hire U18's.

Nitrogan

KyussB wrote: »

Or pay high enough wages to get locals to pick the fruit...

The one thing people are continuously wilfully blind to.

How much are you willing to pay for strawberries?


Would you pay twice as much for fruit picked by Irish workers?

ed. if there's a market to pay more for fruit picked by Irish workers you should apply for a new business grant and go do it.

jrosen

Scotty # wrote: »

lol, incidentally, the minimum wage for under 18's is €7.07. If the farmers really wanted to maximise profits they could just hire U18's.

true but usually this time of year they would all be in school.

2u2me

plodder wrote: »

Exactly, I've no problem with our minimum wage. As I said before, one consequence of it, is that certain types of work can't be done here. I would say fruit picking is right on the edge, and it seems like some people would be happier if we stopped that as well, and just imported it all, for a lot less trouble.

I'd bet people would be happy to pay a little bit more knowing it was 'guaranteed local' stimulating the local economy and providing good jobs.

Didn't the EU make the Guaranteed Irish thing illegal?

KyussB

Nitrogan wrote: »

How much are you willing to pay for strawberries?


Would you pay twice as much for fruit picked by Irish workers?

ed. if there's a market to pay more for fruit picked by Irish workers you should apply for a new business grant and go do it.

Don't really eat strawberries. I don't need to do anything at an individual level - we all know that's ineffective - instead, if labour protections during times of high unemployment are put in place, it gets done from a top-down level.

blinding

BMurr wrote: »

A quick scan of this thread shows a fair bit of disapproval of potential exploitation of workers, with people getting minimum wage for tough hard work. Yet we are all for the most part happy for someone in China to live a near slave like existence so that we can have the latest electronic gizmo. Perhaps we should have some sort of a recalibration of our values and buying habits. We are essentially saying that so long as it's not on our back door we don't care what happens and that all sorts of reprehensible things are permitted. Of course with China we are feeding a monster as they are very adept as a nation in the art of exploiting others outside their borders when given half a chance.

As a Society we have completely lost our way !

All that is Important is “ Chape Stuff “

“ We Know the Price of Everything and the Value of Nothing “ To Quote Oscar Wilde I believe ! !

Nitrogan

KyussB wrote: »

Don't really eat strawberries. I don't need to do anything at an individual level - we all know that's ineffective - instead, if labour protections during times of high unemployment are put in place, it gets done from a top-down level.

So you'd rather we import strawberries.


But it won't affect you.

KyussB

I'd rather have labour market protections at times of high unemployment - and see where the market settles.

Bass Reeves

KyussB wrote: »

I'd rather have labour market protections at times of high unemployment - and see where the market settles.

We have it's called the minimum wage the second highest on Europe. It's interesting that at least 6 countries in the EU have minimum wage. Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland Italy amd Sweden

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

Don't really eat strawberries. I don't need to do anything at an individual level - we all know that's ineffective - instead, if labour protections during times of high unemployment are put in place, it gets done from a top-down level.

Ok if you don't buy them, to go another way about this.

How much extra do you think I should pay for them?

KyussB

Bass Reeves wrote: »

We have it's called the minimum wage the second highest on Europe. It's interesting that at least 6 countries in the EU have minimum wage. Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland Italy amd Sweden

You know what I'm talking about - protecting local workers from wage depression and high unemployment, brought about through bringing in cheap labour at times of high unemployment.

cryptocurrency

Got Keelings Strawberries today, they were ace.

KyussB

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Ok if you don't buy them, to go another way about this.

How much extra do you think I should pay for them?

The market rate. Don't ask me to divine that rate, under the conditions I propose - when that's impossible to know in advance.

LuasSimon

Keelings are a very profitable company, they could well afford to pay 13-15 Euro an hour and still make plenty of profit but they choose to seek out the poorest people in the EU instead who they can pay minimum wage, take a sizable chunk for their accommodation , cut corners on breaks etc etc seen as these people have no english and are coming from very poor conditions in rural Bulgaria.

Slave labour dressed up as essential work. Unless they go to Ethiopia for people dying from starvation to work Keelings & other fruit companys have finally reached the bottom

Graham

KyussB wrote: »

You know what I'm talking about - protecting local workers from wage depression and high unemployment, brought about through bringing in cheap labour at times of high unemployment.

if only we had a minimum wage those local workers would be protected without having to pretend pulling up the drawbridge has anything to do with Coronavirus.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Got Keelings Strawberries today, they were ace.

I thought I was gonna get loads in the clearance part of tesco, nothing there

utyh2ikcq9z76b

LuasSimon wrote: »

Keelings are a very profitable company, they could well afford to pay 13-15 Euro an hour and still make plenty of profit but they choose to seek out the poorest people in the EU instead who they can pay minimum wage, take a sizable chunk for their accommodation , cut corners on breaks etc etc seen as these people have no english and are coming from very poor conditions in rural Bulgaria.

Slave labour dressed up as essential work. Unless they go to Ethiopia for people dying from starvation to work Keelings & other fruit companys have finally reached the bottom

That's called global capitalism, Apple could afford to pay US workers to make their phones, Nike could pay them to produce clothes as well but they don't. How would Keelings compete with a company that brings in Bulgarians and undercuts them?? Don't hate the player hate the game

A lot of big corporations could afford to pay tax in their own country but they don't, they use a little offshore tax Haven known as Ireland

weldoninhio

Xander Alive Dune wrote: »

That's called global capitalism, Apple could afford to pay US workers to make their phones, Nike could pay them to produce clothes as well but they don't. How would Keelings compete with a company that brings in Bulgarians and undercuts them?? Don't hate the player hate the game

A lot of big corporations could afford to pay tax in their own country but they don't, they use a little offshore tax Haven known as Ireland

Or the Isle of Man in Keelings case.

2u2me

Xander Alive Dune wrote: »

Don't hate the player hate the game

Graham

LuasSimon wrote: »

Slave labour dressed up as essential work. Unless they go to Ethiopia for people dying from starvation to work Keelings & other fruit companys have finally reached the bottom

You think fruit companies should be subject to a different minimum wage than the one that applies to the local workforce?

Scotty #

weldoninhio wrote: »

Or the Isle of Man in Keelings case.

You can see on Vision.net that they're registered here and have filed their returns here.

Do you know something else? Source?

Scotty #

LuasSimon wrote: »

Keelings are a very profitable company, they could well afford to pay 13-15 Euro an hour and still make plenty of profit but they choose to seek out the poorest people in the EU instead who they can pay minimum wage, take a sizable chunk for their accommodation , cut corners on breaks etc etc seen as these people have no english and are coming from very poor conditions in rural Bulgaria.

Slave labour dressed up as essential work. Unless they go to Ethiopia for people dying from starvation to work Keelings & other fruit companys have finally reached the bottom

Tell me this Simon, does your employer pay your rent/mortgage for you AND THEN pay you or are these expenses you must look after yourself AFTER you've been paid?

I'll quote the Reddit guy again for the fun of it...

"Keelings is actually doing a pretty good job when it comes to employment rights."

KyussB

Graham wrote: »

if only we had a minimum wage those local workers would be protected without having to pretend pulling up the drawbridge has anything to do with Coronavirus.

The minimum wage doesn't protect local workers from heightened unemployment, and depressed wages, as a result of bringing in cheap labour when unemployment is high.

Graham

KyussB wrote: »

The minimum wage doesn't protect local workers from heightened unemployment, and depressed wages, as a result of bringing in cheap labour when unemployment is high.

It protects them from anyone trying to undercut or pay beneath the minimum wage.

At least you've finally accepted this is all to do with protectionism rather than being remotely Coronavirus related.

KyussB

Scotty # wrote: »

Tell me this Simon, does your employer pay your rent/mortgage for you AND THEN pay you or are these expenses you must look after yourself AFTER you've been paid?

More relevant question: Is your employer also your landlord, and in complete control of your living situation due to flying you in from a whole other country?

KyussB

Graham wrote: »

It protects them from anyone trying to undercut or pay beneath the minimum wage.

At least you've finally accepted this is all to do with protectionism rather than being remotely Coronavirus related.

All my posts have been about protecting the labour market, at times of high unemployment.

Scotty #

KyussB wrote: »

a result of bringing in cheap labour when unemployment is high.

Kyuss do you condsider us to be at high unemployment now? 5.4% March 2020. 4.7% last Oct when these people were lined up.