Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

Graham

KyussB wrote: »

All my posts have been about protecting the labour market, at times of high unemployment.

Making local crops more expensive than imported ones is going to protect nobody.

KyussB

Scotty # wrote: »

Kyuss do you condsider us to be at high unemployment now? 5.4% March 2020. 4.7% last Oct when these people were lined up.

Yes - offhand the figure was 200,000 unemployed (up by 20,000 in one month) - and a further 280,000 on Pandemic unemployment - and only 28,000 on wage subsidy.

The damage to the economy is done. We are most definitely not returning to near-'full' unemployment this year or next.

KyussB

Graham wrote: »

Making local crops more expensive than imported ones is going to protect nobody.

Sharing a greater proportion of the profits will help workers plenty, if they want to keep produce cheap to stay competitive.

Scotty #

KyussB wrote: »

Yes - offhand the figure was 200,000 unemployed (up by 20,000 in one month) - and a further 280,000 on Pandemic unemployment - and only 28,000 on wage subsidy.

The damage to the economy is done. We are most definitely not returning to near-'full' unemployment this year or next.

The March 2020 figure is 136,600.

1874

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The Irish Minimum wage is the second highest in the EU. I am citing it as a fact. It is immediately obvious that a Bulgarian worker coming to Ireland is a better off than one going to the UK, Germany or Holland. They are way better off compared to a Mexican picking fruit in the Florida or one milking cows in Wyoming.

We do not need to apologise over it.

On accommodation it is blindingly obvious that migrant workers could not compete for accommodation in the Irish market along the east coast. Fruit producers not just Keeling's put that accomodation in place. If fed and found for sub 100/ week this would be competitive from an Irish perceptive for 7 day good and lodgings.

You and other posters keep posting that minimum wage is given, like it is fact, when in FACT Keelings have declined to state what the pay and conditions are, WHAT does that tell you??
From what Ive read recently there have been cases taken in the past about pay and keelings.

KyussB wrote: »

Or pay high enough wages to get locals to pick the fruit...
The one thing people are continuously wilfully blind to.

Thats the thing no one considers, they assume Keelings are paying minimum wage when its blatantly obvious they arent, they wont even release what the rates are or they will have to alter their pay and conditions, as someone else stated, Keelings are profitable, they could easily pay minimum wage and there would be a raft of people located in Ireland and locally to take up those positions and the State/Govt should encourage and facilitate this. Covid19 got in the way of a Keelings business and it just highlighted what they are up to.

Scotty # wrote: »

I agree. The thread has gone way off topic.

Their travel was sanctioned by our government.

It seems your outrage should be aimed more at government and their decisions than at fruit farmers, no?

Some posters see it as nothing more than the ability to have a few strawberries on their porridge. I see the failure of our summer harvest as a much much bigger issue. Thankfully our government agrees with my view.

That article you linked does not say the Govt sanctioned anything,
There was a "request" AND a "strong appeal" AND "leaders promised to urgently address"AND even statements that "seasonal workers in some cases provided critical functions", I dont think picking Strawberries is critical to anything other than lining Keelings pockets in the face of a Global Pandemic, Im pretty sure if Keelings didnt want to take the whole loss of a crop, they could have taken suffered some loss and paid better, and I belive they would have sourced their workers from residents in Ireland already without introducing worse problems for transmission of Covid19
All the comments in that article are very wishy washy which shows the Govt and the EU support it but nothing firmly official looking, on the one hand they let businesses know its ok to what they did without being able to be blamed for doing the wrong thing during a pandemic, otherwise why have they flip flopped and made counter statements saying they are not happy about transporting workers here?

maestroamado wrote: »

Sure our Irish mammy's couldn't have their little dotes getting their hands and knees dirty.
We have lost the manual work Irish people were well known for.
Someone should create an app for it and we all in there...

Nonsense, anything to back that up, plenty of hard working Irish people, in my experience despite regional, cultural, national differences, people are the same everywhere, Ive worked with hard working Irish and also lazy sods, same for Polish, Croatians, and plenty others

Scotty # wrote: »

I 100% agree with you. The employment system is not fair, it never has been and it never will be.

A friend of mine started work with a new small utility company to Ireland last year, she has experience in the industry but was going for a job she's never done before. 40 hours training. Works from home. She gets X amount of of work to do each week and when she's done she's done. A very handy number. She started on €67,000 a year. Look at what a Luas driver earns! School bus drivers are paid more than teachers! Our Garda are on terrible money. Our child care workers... the list is endless. I agree with your point but I don't think it will ever change.

Even for what they do, they are on pretty decent money, even starting out its not too bad (probably not as good as it was for trainees but thats going back more than 10 years), better than many Graduates earn straight out of college or even for jobs with some experience and a lot of perks and benefits and it goes with the job, and significantly better paid than their peers in other European countries. I dont belie that Gardai have done badly or even poorly with their pay, teachers on the other hand, and Im referring to new entrants, I consider that criminal and an easy target, did the Gardai get treated that way? NO they didnt, Do we need a situation where Gardai might be tempted no we dont, but we are not anywhere near that as they are on better pay than the majority of workers in more difficult jobs. Two areas that are critical to our health and future (and I hope the nurses take issue with the State once this is all over) and thats Health AND Education, frontline staff Nurses, careworkers/HCAs, porters, Jr Drs not just who are on the lower end and across the board need to be compensated in accordance with their work, but I belive it should be measured on performance, so if someone is routinely out of work then they shouldnt get a flat increase, I know cases exist where there are Healthcare staff who are poor employees, arent in attendance etc but I consider they are in the minority.

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

There was one report in the paper from a farmer who had a load of local students employed. The parents showed up before 10:30 to collect them because it started raining.

Have you a link, something verified? I did a google search and nothing came up?? Ive no doubt it happens, and Im sure parents picking up kids happens too, its likely necessary if somewhere is out of the way and there is no transport links, Id certainly be conscious of a child working on a farm as its a job that has more potential hazards, I wouldnt count rain as one, but I think we're all aware PPE is pretty essential, whether people are provided it or need to provide their own (I know it should be provided but I know that isnt always the case in certain jobs).

Nitrogan wrote: »

So you'd rather we import strawberries.

But it won't affect you.

Id rather people resident here were paid, I might even buy strawberries (I usually buy other fruits) if I thought it was supporting local employment (by which I mean anyone resident in Ireland now, Irish, Polish whoever) with fair wages, but the Irish bashing is getting tired on this story, not that Im suggesting anyone nationality should be bashed, but if the jobs are so lucrative (with the alleged minimum wage) then why isnt there a significant take up of these jobs by other European nationalities resident here also, because it seems very likely that the pay and conditions dont match up (Keelings are keeping quiet on that score) with minimum pay and no one wants to do it for that reason, ie less than minimum wage, plus hard work equals cant get people locally (of any nationality) but by all means people can bash Irish people because its an easy way to excuse what has occurred. The alternative to this is what Keelings has been doing all along and has been highlighted by COVID19, and I have no doubt the people employed have experience at the work, but its not rocket science.

LuasSimon wrote: »

Keelings are a very profitable company, they could well afford to pay 13-15 Euro an hour and still make plenty of profit but they choose to seek out the poorest people in the EU instead who they can pay minimum wage, take a sizable chunk for their accommodation , cut corners on breaks etc etc seen as these people have no english and are coming from very poor conditions in rural Bulgaria.

Slave labour dressed up as essential work. Unless they go to Ethiopia for people dying from starvation to work Keelings & other fruit companys have finally reached the bottom

More or less, but I dont believe they are paying minimum wage, otherwise they would have been able to source people in Ireland, AND they would have released this information publicly, which they have declined to disclose
I think you are giving them ideas, Im sure some businesses could sink lower

Graham wrote: »

if only we had a minimum wage those local workers would be protected without having to pretend pulling up the drawbridge has anything to do with Coronavirus.
It's like reading the Nigel Farage economics cookbook

That keeps getting trotted out like its fact, when Keelings declined to reveal what pay and conditions were, its a tacit statement that they arent in fact paying minimum wage.

Graham

1874 wrote: »

That keeps getting trotted out like its fact, when Keelings declined to reveal what pay and conditions were, its a tacit statement that they arent in fact paying minimum wage.

No, it really isn't.

KyussB

Scotty # wrote: »

The March 2020 figure is 136,600.

Live Register gives fuller figures:
https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/liveregister/

Scotty #

1874 wrote: »

That keeps getting trotted out like its fact, when Keelings declined to reveal what pay and conditions were, its a tacit statement that they arent in fact paying minimum wage.

I'll refer you to the employee on Reddit who verified his authenticity by posting his pay slip. No worker receives less than minimum wage.

Scotty #

KyussB wrote: »

Live Register gives fuller figures:
https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/liveregister/

Huh? You do realise the Live Register includes part-time and seasonal workers?

Bass Reeves

KyussB wrote: »

You know what I'm talking about - protecting local workers from wage depression and high unemployment, brought about through bringing in cheap labour at times of high unemployment.

So what you are advocating so is that in a recession you give priority to local workers. So when we have fu employment as before COVID a company sources employee's then along comes factors outside it control it in Keeling's tells it normal workers you have to stay or f@@k off back to Bulgaria.

To put this in perceptive all the Irish people working across the world are told the same. In a time of economic downturn when trying to complete companies would have to source untrained local labour at rates that some here are proposing 40% above the legal minimum rate and compete in an international marketplace.

Say goodbye to Tourism and our agrifood industry. Day goodbye to our agri engineering firms. We are an exporting nation with a small internal market.

What a load of rubbish we have the second highest minimum I Europe. Over the last ten years as they went through college my hildten benefited from it, one worked in s nursing home, one in a bookies and last one is working in the bar trade while he is in colleges. They have earned anything from 8-12k /year at college.

The minimum wage protects workers it sets abase below which employers cannot pay. It sets a base which forces up wages in the economy. AFAIK only about 10% of workers are
At the minimum rate.

KyussB

Scotty # wrote: »

Huh? You do realise the Live Register includes part-time and seasonal workers?

Who have registered for Jobseekers Benefit/Allowance.

The main interest I have in those figures, is the inclusing of Pandemic unemployment payments as well - I'm happy to settle with the figure you provide, of ~130,000, as also displaying plenty of unemployed folk.

Do you really think it's worth discussing though - as in: Do you really doubt unemployment is skyrocketing, even if it's not yet reflected in official figures?

Central Bank, government etc. warning of a huge jump in unemployment.

cryptocurrency

Xander Alive Dune wrote: »

I thought I was gonna get loads in the clearance part of tesco, nothing there

Nah, there is a certain freshness with Keelings which I always put down to the swiftness of the picking, to packing to shelf process. When you have efficiency like that it is always yum yum. From the min the workers enter the area, the clock starts ticking once they start to pick.

Keelings nail this.

2u2me

These comments from the AMA I read previously linked for me are not all that unfamiliar with comments in other sectors etc... but what stands out to me is the how disposable these people are. Whatever about the minimum wage, these conditions do not seem right.

Job stability:

We can talk with everyone we want, but we are scared, because if we say something bad about Keelings there is a good chance we won't receive an invitation to work again in the next year.

Thoughts on having their money taken for accomodation etc..

My thoughts? I hate them because they do w/e they want with us because we are so easily replaceable.

Why they come to Ireland despite it being more infected than Bulgaria

They are scared, but they don't have an option. They need the money.

Everyone that was on the plane knew that there is a risk of getting sick, but most of them just have no other option. They are unemployed in Bulgaria, they have kids and they have bills. We don't get any compensation for being unemployed during the pandemic, so the people have no choice. Either they risk going to Ireland or they run out of money.

Not sure why Keelings has such a hard time finding employees with glowing accounts such as these;

What are they like to work for? Well let me just say that 95% of the Bulgarians hate Keelings, but we need this job. For you the min wage is really low but for the Bulgarians is a lot. Keelings knows that. They know we are easily replaceable and tend to do w/e they want with us.

Last year a forklift broke someone's leg. We've been working in one of the glasshouses. The health guy came in and the first question he asked was "WTF were you doing there" instead of asking "How are you?". It's just disgusting. Obviously Keelings had to pay all expenses. That person got fired after a month and he didn't get an invitation to work there again.

KyussB

Bass Reeves wrote: »

So what you are advocating so is that in a recession you give priority to local workers. So when we have fu employment as before COVID a company sources employee's then along comes factors outside it control it in Keeling's tells it normal workers you have to stay or f@@k off back to Bulgaria.

To put this in perceptive all the Irish people working across the world are told the same. In a time of economic downturn when trying to complete companies would have to source untrained local labour at rates that some here are proposing 40% above the legal minimum rate and compete in an international marketplace.

Say goodbye to Tourism and our agrifood industry. Day goodbye to our agri engineering firms. We are an exporting nation with a small internal market.

What a load of rubbish we have the second highest minimum I Europe. Over the last ten years as they went through college my hildten benefited from it, one worked in s nursing home, one in a bookies and last one is working in the bar trade while he is in colleges. They have earned anything from 8-12k /year at college.

The minimum wage protects workers it sets abase below which employers cannot pay. It sets a base which forces up wages in the economy. AFAIK only about 10% of workers are
At the minimum rate.

Yes. I'm fine with bringing in workers where there are skills shortages and that type of thing, though.

Anyone already here, from before protections come in place, gets treated as one of our own.

The minimum wage just sets a floor for workers wages - it doesn't fully protect them. Working in e.g. a nursing home like one of your own did, is hard work - and should be paid a good bit more, really.

Minimum wage, as good as it is, does bugger all for the unemployed - and persistent long term unemployment destroys many peoples prospects and lives - it's incredibly destructive.

Scotty #

KyussB wrote: »

Who have registered for Jobseekers Benefit/Allowance.

The main interest I have in those figures, is the inclusing of Pandemic unemployment payments as well - I'm happy to settle with the figure you provide, of ~130,000, as also displaying plenty of unemployed folk.

Do you really think it's worth discussing though - as in: Do you really doubt unemployment is skyrocketing, even if it's not yet reflected in official figures?

Central Bank, government etc. warning of a huge jump in unemployment.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think it's idealistic.

Even when unemplyment was at 17% just a few years ago, the agri, fishing, hotel, and tourism sectors still had to bring workers in.

On one hand you have people saying that we need cheap food because so many are living week to week barely on the bread line, and then you have people championing higher food prices.

It's like child care, everyone thinks child care costs in this country are too high and yet everyone agrees that child care workers are paid too little. What's the solution?

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Scotty # wrote: »

I'll refer you to the employee on Reddit who verified his authenticity by posting his pay slip. No worker receives less than minimum wage.

The pay slip in question, which has most of the details marked out, which you could understand if it mentioned their name or personal details [PPS], but sadly would have put a lot of debate to bed if it included pay.

LuasSimon

Keelings should get a boat to the coast of North Africa and start offering migrants on rafts contracts , they wouldn’t have to pay Irish minimum wage they could pay Libyan minimum wage rates and make deductions each week for the boat back to Ireland . These people would be delighted to accept these terms and conditions . Keelings profits would grow even further .

KyussB

Scotty # wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think it's idealistic.

Even when unemplyment was at 17% just a few years ago, the agri, fishing, hotel, and tourism sectors still had to bring workers in.

On one hand you have people saying that we need cheap food because so many are living week to week barely on the bread line, and then you have people championing higher food prices.

It's like child care, everyone thinks child care costs in this country are too high and yet everyone agrees that child care workers are paid too little. What's the solution?

Unemployed people should still have standards, and the self-respect to expect good pay for hard work (if they have to give more than minimum effort, they should expect more than minimum wage).

Those industries bringing in cheap labour, even when there was 17% unemployment back then, just emphasizes that we need labour market protections.

If cheap food is needed, then share a greater proportion of the profits with the workers.

I don't think anything that I say here is unrealistic - and there are other policies that I haven't gone into in this thread at all, that would significantly help with high unemployment without affecting industry (but they're not for this thread) - all of these things are perfectly realistic and not as burdensome as people make out, in the end.

weldoninhio

Scotty # wrote: »

I'll refer you to the employee on Reddit who verified his authenticity by posting his pay slip. No worker receives less than minimum wage.

You have no idea if that is an employee of someone bored sitting at home in their basement. It’s an anonymous person on the internet.

blinding

LuasSimon wrote: »

Keelings should get a boat to the coast of North Africa and start offering migrants on rafts contracts , they wouldn’t have to pay Irish minimum wage they could pay Libyan minimum wage rates and make deductions each week for the boat back to Ireland . These people would be delighted to accept these terms and conditions . Keelings profits would grow even further .

If they could get away with it the would most definitely do it.

They worship the God of Cheap / Exploited Labour and they have no Intention of Changing their Religion ! !

1874

Scotty # wrote: »

I'll refer you to the employee on Reddit who verified his authenticity by posting his pay slip. No worker receives less than minimum wage.

Great link, DID YOU EVEN READ THAT???
Because there is zero in that payslip that shows minimum wage or any deduction, its virtually all blacked out. It says they did 48 hours basic and 4.75 hrs OT, I used to get the EXACT same format of payslip, it must be standard for the contract industry.

So claims they are paid minimum wage, I still dont believe, but Keelings wont reveal this and conditions.


It's also stated in reddit, comments like hates keelings, fearful they wont be invited back if they approach a Union or say anything bad about them, lose their hourly pick rate, they have to keeo the fruit dry with their clothes?? wtf rather than Keelings providing some kind of basic cheap equipment for that task?


Yep, NOT convinced

markodaly

KyussB wrote: »

Minimum wage, as good as it is, does bugger all for the unemployed - and persistent long term unemployment destroys many peoples prospects and lives - it's incredibly destructive.

So, now you are arguing against the minimum wage.

blinding

1874 wrote: »

Great link, DID YOU EVEN READ THAT???
Because there is zero in that payslip that shows minimum wage or any deduction, its virtually all blacked out. It says they did 48 hours basic and 4.75 hrs OT, I used to get the EXACT same format of payslip, it must be standard for the contract industry.

So claims they are paid minimum wage, I still dont believe, but Keelings wont reveal this and conditions.


It's also stated in reddit, comments like hates keelings, fearful they wont be invited back if they approach a Union or say anything bad about them, lose their hourly pick rate, they have to keeo the fruit dry with their clothes?? wtf rather than Keelings providing some kind of basic cheap equipment for that task?


Yep, NOT convinced

Keelings are very Secretive. Ya don’t need Sherlock Holmes to work out Why ! ! !

blinding

markodaly wrote: »

So, now you are arguing against the minimum wage.

What is needed is a Living wage, and a Living Wage for the Country that any work is Done. It Ain’t Rocket Science ! ! !

markodaly

KyussB wrote: »

Unemployed people should still have standards, and the self-respect to expect good pay for hard work (if they have to give more than minimum effort, they should expect more than minimum wage).

Those industries bringing in cheap labour, even when there was 17% unemployment back then, just emphasizes that we need labour market protections.

If cheap food is needed, then share a greater proportion of the profits with the workers.

I don't think anything that I say here is unrealistic - and there are other policies that I haven't gone into in this thread at all, that would significantly help with high unemployment without affecting industry (but they're not for this thread) - all of these things are perfectly realistic and not as burdensome as people make out, in the end.

Its all aspirational fantasy land stuff.
Protect national labour markets against EU migration.
Share low margin high volume products with workers.
Anything more than min effort = more than the min wage.

Its weird mix of Nigel Farage and Karl Marx.
UKIP meets Communism.

I can see you in a while advocating for Irexit when what you want, won't transpire because the government of the day or the EU commission sees it differently.

markodaly

blinding wrote: »

What is needed is a Living wage, and a Living Wage for the Country that any work is Done. It Ain’t Rocket Science ! ! !

Yet people complain about the high cost of living in Ireland....

Ireland already has one of the highest minimum wages in the world and at a time like this with 22% unemployed, banging on about a living wage would kill any recovery and permanently destroy hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Graham

Some of the responses are completely cloud cuckoo land stuff.

Making our produce more expensive than imported produce is not going to protect our economy or our work force.

1874

Scotty # wrote: »

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I think it's idealistic.

Even when unemplyment was at 17% just a few years ago, the agri, fishing, hotel, and tourism sectors still had to bring workers in.

On one hand you have people saying that we need cheap food because so many are living week to week barely on the bread line, and then you have people championing higher food prices.

It's like child care, everyone thinks child care costs in this country are too high and yet everyone agrees that child care workers are paid too little. What's the solution?

Whats the solution? childcare is a rip off, compare us to more enlightened countries, like Denmark and Sweden and even Germany,
Govt/and in this case the State has farmed it out to private ownership (to some extent that might be good, if there was standards across the board that were applied), and at the sametime these businesses are in the main getting paid quite well for something in my opinion should be a state run effort (just like the State has farmed out housing, which is not a comprehensive or healthy system either), needless to say, costs somewhere need to come down for businesses in certain areas (without them just hoovering up the excess as profits in a good time), I would say tackle head on the Insurance industry, look at Countries where it works better, standardise payments for claims, bring in a mixture of repsonsibility for a safe environment but also personal responsibility, plus the reality that certain things will happen in certain situations, re childcare, kids will get bumps, knocks etc, Im not talking about serious institutional failures or defending that, so it will ultimately mean tackling head on the Legal system an healthcare in this country all at the same time, I dont believe ther eis the political ability or will to do this, just not interest despite what people want and need.

KyussB

markodaly wrote: »

So, now you are arguing against the minimum wage.

I don't see how remarking that someone without a job, doesn't benefit from the minimum wage, can be considered as arguing against having a minimum wage.

1874

Graham wrote: »

Some of the responses are completely cloud cuckoo land stuff.

Making our produce more expensive than imported produce is not going to protect our economy or our work force.

So you dont agree with lcoking this country down in favour of the economy??
If the Govt had the balls and the sense, we could have locked down hard for 3 weeks, about 2-3 weeks before they did, and we would have crossed the biggest hurdle early and quick and minimised the ongoing impact to both the state of our national economy and the health and welfare of people and in many case actual lives would have been saved, but you are concerned so much the economy, as has been mirrored by the Govt, that this whole thing has been dragged out worsening it for all.

Graham

1874 wrote: »

So you dont agree with lcoking this country down in favour of the economy??

Absolutely agree with it.

Other than essential services like healthcare and food production/supply.

KyussB

markodaly wrote: »

Its all aspirational fantasy land stuff.
Protect national labour markets against EU migration.
Share low margin high volume products with workers.
Anything more than min effort = more than the min wage.

Its weird mix of Nigel Farage and Karl Marx.
UKIP meets Communism.

I can see you in a while advocating for Irexit when what you want, won't transpire because the government of the day or the EU commission sees it differently.

It's farcical enough when a poster labels another a Communist out of nowhere - but it's just desperate and completely discrediting when a poster labels someone both a Nazi and a Communist at the same time, as if that makes any sense.

markodaly

KyussB wrote: »

I don't see how remarking that someone without a job, doesn't benefit from the minimum wage, can be considered as arguing against having a minimum wage.

Because having high wages can kill jobs and lead to more automation, which is coming anyway.

KyussB

Graham wrote: »

Some of the responses are completely cloud cuckoo land stuff.

Making our produce more expensive than imported produce is not going to protect our economy or our work force.

Or share a greater percentage of profits with workers to keep produce cheap.

markodaly

KyussB wrote: »

It's farcical enough when a poster labels another a Communist out of nowhere - but it's just desperate and completely discrediting when a poster labels someone both a Nazi and a Communist at the same time, as if that makes any sense.

No, its apt in this case because you are peddling nonsense

Rows Grower

Some lads still hanging around seeking validation, trying to provoke responses instead of engaging in reasonable discussion.

At least Scotty hashtag made an effort at refuting others points, he's the kind of guy you'd want on your side in an honest debate because if he had the moral high ground he would be like a wounded rhino and crush all before him.

The other little lap dogs have exposed themselves badly in this thread.

KyussB

markodaly wrote: »

Because having high wages can kill jobs and lead to more automation, which is coming anyway.

This seems to be unrelated to what you were quoting - unless you are arguing against the minimum wage, here?

KyussB

markodaly wrote: »

No, its apt in this case because you are peddling nonsense

If it's such nonsense then it should be easy to debunk, instead of flailing around with accusations of Communism and Nazism combined.

1874

Graham wrote: »

Absolutely.

Other than essential services like healthcare and food production/supply.

I dont think it needed clearing up, but at least you admitted it, hasnt the WHO already criticised National Govts for failing to act adequately! The CMO has made his opinion on it clear,

We shouldnt need a lock down overall, but we do, it points to the failures and weaknesses in our current system, healthcare most of all.

Had we locked down early and hard we would have done more to protect the Economy and deal with Covid19 at the same time, unfortunately people concerned with the economy have aided COVID19 in that they were reluctant to lockdown hard, causing this all to be dragged out, COVID19 has highlighted failings in a number of places, employee protection for one by highlighting businesses like Keelings that arent paying legally enshrined minimum wage OR theyd be able to show that, but they decline, if they were they'd be able to source their employees here, they like you are more concerned with the economy and profits.
There is always some excuse for the Human cost, why this or that is ok, minimum pay, minimum standards, in both instances not even being met, for profit.

blinding

Graham wrote: »

Some of the responses are completely cloud cuckoo land stuff.

Making our produce more expensive than imported produce is not going to protect our economy or our work force.

Is the Eu designed to bring wages down to the lowest common denominator or the opposite ?

Should we just find the Country in the Eu thats pays the lowest wage and pay everyone in the Eu that wage ? ?

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Just seen this.

The Gript wrote:

Keelings would almost have you believe that no fruit and veg were picked before the importation of migrant workers, many of whom it is claimed are not paid minimum wage and whose short contracts are with an agency rather than with the workers as individuals. When the season is over they are flown home.

Using an agency in this way allows requirements to pay the Irish minimum wage to be circumvented, since EU regulations don’t require that the minimum wage of the country where the work takes place need apply. And just look at the manner in which Keelings circumvented flight restrictions.

I'd like to be able to confirm definitely that Keelings use an agency to recruit in eastern Europe but there really is no other way they could do it, is there?

1o059k7ewrqj3n

LuasSimon wrote: »

Keelings should get a boat to the coast of North Africa and start offering migrants on rafts contracts , they wouldn’t have to pay Irish minimum wage they could pay Libyan minimum wage rates and make deductions each week for the boat back to Ireland . These people would be delighted to accept these terms and conditions . Keelings profits would grow even further .

David Keeling already tried to get work permit restrictions for non-EEA workers before back in 2018 by lobbying Minister for Enterprise Heather Humphries.

So you're not too far off.

blinding

Steyr 556 wrote: »

David Keeling already tried to get work permit restrictions for non-EEA workers before back in 2018 by lobbying Minister for Enterprise Heather Humphries.

So you're not too far off.

These people would bring Back Slavery if they were Allowed ! !

Rows Grower

blinding wrote: »

These people would bring Back Slavery if they were Allowed ! !

And you'd have the lads on here accusing others of racism telling us it's okay.

blinding

Rows Grower wrote: »

And you'd have the lads on here accusing others of racism telling us it's okay.

Sure they’d be delighted with the ” Chape stuff ":eek::eek:

Graham

blinding wrote: »

Is the Eu designed to bring wages down to the lowest common denominator or the opposite ?

Should we just find the Country in the Eu thats pays the lowest wage and pay everyone in the Eu that wage ? ?

But the opposite is happening.

Wages are rising in the counties with the lower rates of pay.

blinding

Graham wrote: »

But the opposite is happening.

Wages are rising in the counties with the lower rates of pay.

Is the Eu designed to bring down ( or at least stop them from rising ) the Higher Wages Countries to meet the Lower Waged Countries.

Would it not be better for the Eu to be honest and just find the Lowest Paid Country in the Eu and make that the Standard Wage Across the Eu.

It would be a More Honest Way of going about what is Happening ! !

Graham

blinding wrote: »

Is the Eu designed to bring down ( or at least stop them from rising ) the Higher Wages Countries to meet the Lower Waged Countries.

No

blinding

Graham wrote: »

No

Why not as a One Off. Find the Lowest Wage Country in the Eu. Make this the Standard Wage across the Eu and immediately lower the cost of living across the Eu.

Would this not just be a more Honest way of Going Forward ! !

Graham

blinding wrote: »

Why not as a One Off. Find the Lowest Wage Country in the Eu. Make this the Standard Wage across the Eu and immediately lower the cost of living across the Eu.

You might want to Google the negative effects of deflation.