Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

Scotty #

markodaly wrote: »

An honest question. Where does the Unite guy get the '€200 a week' from?

Did he just take some number out of thin air and presented it like a hard cold, researched fact.

Doesnt Trump do that on a daily basis?

Trump also disparages foreigners and migrants.
I guess many in this thread have a lot in common with him.

It's about 12 mins in. He says something like "So you've to pay €95 a week accommodation, you don't have to pay much tax but you have other expenses, so you're basically working for €200 per week." The Bulgarian looks confused for a second or two and then says "yes".

2u2me

I would be interested to know what's the average working contract for an employee of Keelings, is that information available anywhere?
(not the 12 week contract offered, but how long an average worker stays of this 12 week period).

Scotty #

maestroamado wrote: »

The one thing i would gripe about is the agency fee €40+ pw for the privilage of hard labour.

Even though it includes their flights and they get paid for the first 4 days while they do their manual handling etc?

I don't see it as excessive. Perhaps when you look at it from a Bulgarian perspective it is.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

markodaly wrote: »

An honest question. Where does the Unite guy get the '€200 a week' from?

Did he just take some number out of thin air and presented it like a hard cold, researched fact.

Doesnt Trump do that on a daily basis?

Trump also disparages foreigners and migrants.
I guess many in this thread have a lot in common with him.

Have you bothered to watch the video? You have the cheek to attack others for posting misinformation and you are barely aware of the facts yourself.

Graham

Steyr 556 wrote: »

posting misinformation and you are barely aware of the facts yourself.

like the fact the workers on the video aren't really being paid €200 a week.

Scotty #

2u2me wrote: »

I would be interested to know what's the average working contract for an employee of Keelings, is that information available anywhere?
(not the 12 week contract offered, but how long an average worker stays of this 12 week period).

I think I read that 70% return year on year. These would be people invited back so I'd imagine they stayed the 12 weeks.

The season is 26 weeks though. I don't know if there is a new 12 week contract each term.

maestroamado

2u2me wrote: »

Yeah I noticed that on first watch. It's wrong. But I believe just as wrong as people pointing to the minimum wage and saying look they're being treated fairly!

They are all adults so if they are happy to the work for minimum wage its nothing to do with us, who is the decider of what's fair?
As i was typing i seen a post saying 70% return each year, that's an amazing result as i was thinking likely half that.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Graham wrote: »

like the fact the workers on the video aren't really being paid €200 a week.

I actually thought you had me on ignore Graham because you had gone very quiet on me.

Sure he's probably not even Bulgarian, is he? It's all Union propaganda.

mgn

Scotty # wrote: »

You're right. The locals would be paying far more out of their wage to pay mortgages and rent.

Not if there were 8 of them sharing an apartment at €95 per person.

That works out at €760 a week or €3293 per month.

I'm sure you could get a place around St Margarets for that sort of money,

Graham

maestroamado wrote: »

They are all adults so if they are happy to the work for minimum wage its nothing to do with us, who is the decider of what's fair?
As i was typing i seen a post saying 70% return each year, that's an amazing result as i was thinking likely half that.

I understand the good pickers can earn significantly more but the unions won't go anywhere near those payslips.

mgn

markodaly wrote: »

If you mean them as agri-business, then yes, you would starve.

Id say most here couldn't tell the difference between a cow and a horse, or tillage farming and dairy farming.

But sure, I am looking forward to 900 Irish fruit pickers given jobs.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but i was brought on a farm and back living on one now, so less of your guff there.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Scotty # wrote: »

I don't see anything in the contract (also shown in the video) that says they can't find their own accommodation. It just says they have to be on time. It also says they can work a second job elsewhere as long as it doesn't interfere with their max working time hours.

It's unclear in both interviews if it's €95/room or €95 per person.

You will be required to pay the 95 euro per week. That's in the contract. It doesn't say anything about 95 euro shared, which would be, for two people, 47.50 euro.

I suppose you could go find your own accommodation, but you will still be paying the 95 euro as it's in a non-negotiable contract.

mgn

markodaly wrote: »

If you mean them as agri-business, then yes, you would starve.

Id say most here couldn't tell the difference between a cow and a horse, or tillage farming and dairy farming.

But sure, I am looking forward to 900 Irish fruit pickers given jobs.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but i was brought on a farm and back living on one now, so less of your assumptions there,

Graham

lol @ the scrambling to find other problems now the less than minimum wage lie has been exposed.

Scotty #

2u2me wrote: »

Yeah I noticed that on first watch. It's wrong. But I believe just as wrong as people pointing to the minimum wage and saying look they're being treated fairly!

I'm not advocating that they don't deserve more than minimum. The rights and wrongs of min wage work is not what this thread was intended for though.

Fruit picking will always be a low paid job.

Alrigghtythen

If it's the minimum wage people have the issue with maybe we should look at 2 min wages. One for the locals and a higher one for the non nationals.

blinding

maestroamado wrote: »

To me €467.80 seems pretty fair and i suppose the only way of supervision is performance factor.
If they getting bed and food for €95 pw that seems fair, i assume they well looked after as you need to eat well to do this work.
The one thing i would gripe about is the agency fee €40+ pw for the privilage of hard labour.
I think at least half of this should be returned on completion of full time.
I wonder who pays for the flights on normal year?

They buy their own Food and as yo say you have to eat well to do back breaking work . Very often in the Rain. Potentially Morning Noon and Evening in Ireland.

greasepalm

I do hope they are tasty strawberries with cream for later.

maestroamado

mgn wrote: »

Not if there were 8 of them sharing an apartment at €95 per person.

That works out at €760 a week or €3293 per month.

I'm sure you could get a place around St Margarets for that sort of money,

From what i seen here it seems €95 for a room shared by two people.
I had it wrong i thought it was food and bed for one person.
€95 be crazy. A daughter of a friend of mine is paying less than that to have her own room in a shared house Glasnevin, they have being there for few years...

Graham

maestroamado wrote: »

From what i seen here it seems €95 for a room shared by two people.

Facts have a habit of being rather elastic around here so I wouldn't take that as gospel.

Also keep in mind there's a fair difference between the cost of short-term and long term accommodation. That's not something employers of any variety can control.

maestroamado

Graham wrote: »

Facts have a habit of being rather elastic around here so I wouldn't take that as gospel.

Also keep in mind there's a fair difference between the cost of short-term and long term accommodation. That's not something employers of any variety can control.

What does all of that mean?

Jizique

blinding wrote: »

They buy their own Food and as yo say you have to eat well to do back breaking work . Very often in the Rain. Potentially Morning Noon and Evening in Ireland.

is that why none of the local jobless want to do it?

bizidea

Graham wrote: »

Facts have a habit of being rather elastic around here so I wouldn't take that as gospel.

Also keep in mind there's a fair difference between the cost of short-term and long term accommodation. That's not something employers of any variety can control.

The only we fact we are sure of is that keelings flew 189 people from the far side of Europe in the middle of the worse health crisis to hit mankind in a century

maestroamado

bizidea wrote: »

The only we fact we are sure of is that keelings flew 189 people from the far side of Europe in the middle of the worse health crisis to hit mankind in a century

I think it was Ryanair and the flight was approved and well flagged in advance.
The health of the nation is not belonged to either Ryanair or Keelings it's belong to us.
I am having a nice glass Spanish vino tinto that's us and i include me...

1o059k7ewrqj3n

maestroamado wrote: »

What does all of that mean?

It means when it suits him he'll pipe up but when he's caught out he'll go silent.

Graham

maestroamado wrote: »

What does all of that mean?

Some of the 'facts' are completely untrue.

maestroamado

Graham wrote: »

Some of the 'facts' are completely untrue.

By their very nature facts are the truth, i cannot understand this comment.
So what facts do you think are untrue?

weldoninhio

maestroamado wrote: »

From what i seen here it seems €95 for a room shared by two people.
I had it wrong i thought it was food and bed for one person.
€95 be crazy. A daughter of a friend of mine is paying less than that to have her own room in a shared house Glasnevin, they have being there for few years...

There is literally a contract a few pages back. It’s €95 per person. No food included.

caveat emptor

It's in stark contrast to Keelings and Dublin Airport, Germany treating this for what it is......A massive infection risk. No disrespect to any country etc. People from Northern Ireland, UK, US, China are the same. In pandemic everyone external is. It's not stopping the food being picked but it's at least trying to mitigate the risk.

https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1254656550104432640?s=20

bizidea

I see singapore thought they were out of the woods but forgot all about their migrant workers who were all living in close proximity to each other until there was clusters of otbreaks involving these poor people

jimmycrackcorm

caveat emptor wrote: »

It's in stark contrast to Keelings and Dublin Airport, Germany treating this for what it is......A massive infection risk. No disrespect to any country etc. People from Northern Ireland, UK, US, China are the same. In pandemic everyone external is. It's not stopping the food being picked but it's at least trying to mitigate the risk.

https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1254656550104432640?s=20

There will be a German version of boards with a whole cohort of whinging equivalent outraged keyboard warriors writing the same rubbish.

BMurr

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There will be a German version of boards with a whole cohort of whinging equivalent outraged keyboard warriors writing the same rubbish.

Calling people whinging keyboard warriors doesn't really contribute much in the way of information apart from giving some sense of your own frustration.

2u2me

caveat emptor wrote: »

It's in stark contrast to Keelings and Dublin Airport, Germany treating this for what it is......A massive infection risk. No disrespect to any country etc. People from Northern Ireland, UK, US, China are the same. In pandemic everyone external is. It's not stopping the food being picked but it's at least trying to mitigate the risk.

https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1254656550104432640?s=20

I posted a while back about a youtuber from Romania who has been documenting his country sending workers to Germany.
Sounds like modern day slavery the way he puts it.

blinding

2u2me wrote: »

I posted a while back about a youtuber from Romania who has been documenting his country sending workers to Germany.
Sounds like modern day slavery the way he puts it.

This guy is great. He has such good insights and takes the pee out of the Bad Bosses ! ! !:D

Bass Reeves

US could be looking at meat shortages. It interesting from the fact that they did not put in place any plan from the start of the pandemic. Hoe do you decide what is essential and what is not in good terms. In reality you keep all sources of food processing and production in play for as long as possible.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/us-dangerously-close-to-meat-shortages-as-plants-close/

2u2me

Bass Reeves wrote: »

US could be looking at meat shortages. It interesting from the fact that they did not put in place any plan from the start of the pandemic. Hoe do you decide what is essential and what is not in good terms. In reality you keep all sources of food processing and production in play for as long as possible.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/us-dangerously-close-to-meat-shortages-as-plants-close/

Isn't a lot of that demand shortage because supply chains to restaurants have shut?
How can we expect to produce the same amount of meat if restaurants are shut?
How much were Mcdonalds buying off them.

Bass Reeves

2u2me wrote: »

Isn't a lot of that demand shortage because supply chains to restaurants have shut?
How can we expect to produce the same amount of meat if restaurants are shut?
How much were Mcdonalds buying off them.

Read the article the meat factories in the US are shutting because of being unable to prevent the pandemic effecting there workers.

2u2me

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Read the article the meat factories in the US are shutting because of being unable to prevent the pandemic effecting there workers.

Perhaps you're right. It's a very vague article and the bloomberg piece it references was behind a paywall.

Scotty #

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Read the article the meat factories in the US are shutting because of being unable to prevent the pandemic effecting there workers.

If the same were to happen here we might be glad we still have our stock of stawberries!! :eek::eek::D:D

blinding

You can tell what sort of an organisation the Eu is in the manner that it allows some of its poorest people to be treated e.g. Bulgarian Farm workers in various Eu Countries = Shameful.

STB.

Graham wrote: »

lol @ the scrambling to find other problems now the less than minimum wage lie has been exposed.

What do mean Graham ? I think you need to watch the interview Brendan Ogle conducted with an ex Keeling "worker" and a translator that has been representing Bulgarians working there. Both spoke quite frankly on what was going on.

At a time when €400 per month was the average monthly wage in Bulgaria, these "horticultural experts" paid between €500 and €750 upfront for translation and air fares for the privilege of working at one of three fruit farm locations in Ireland.

The chap they interviewed had no horticultural background and it was the first time he was on a fruit farm. He was told that there wasn't enough work 8 few weeks in, only to be replaced by more people brought in to replace them. He was offered another fruit picking job in Scotland at his own airfare expense.

They put in 30-45 hours a week getting 1200 per month. Out of that they paid €95 per week for their bed (and some of them are put in barracks type accommodation). Food is not provided and the canteen facilities exceeds the number of workers.

30 minutes break if they worked over 6 hours. So effectively €200 for a weeks back breaking work. Perhaps the most alarming thing in the interview was the lack of comprehension on what self isolation meant in the event of an Covid outbreak.

Was I incensed. Just a little bit.

Graham

STB. wrote: »

What do mean Graham ? I think you need to watch the interview Brendan Ogle conducted with an ex Keeling "worker".

Is he the chap that called ESB staff spoiled while collecting €80k a year from the ESB?

The same fella referred to here: https://www.politicalirish.com/threads/ogle-unite-the-fake-left-exposed-by-apollo-house-stunt.11499/

From the same union pretending €400+ is just like €200.

That one?

Somebody give me a nudge if we ever get past the union flag waving.

Rows Grower

STB. wrote: »

What do mean Graham ? I think you need to watch the interview Brendan Ogle conducted with an ex Keeling "worker" and a translator that has been representing Bulgarians working there. Both spoke quite frankly on what was going on.

At a time when €400 per month was the average monthly wage in Bulgaria, these "horticultural experts" paid between €500 and €750 upfront for translation and air fares for the privilege of working at one of three fruit farm locations in Ireland.

The chap they interviewed had no horticultural background and it was the first time he was on a fruit farm. He was told that there wasn't enough work 8 few weeks in, only to be replaced by more people brought in to replace them. He was offered another fruit picking job in Scotland at his own airfare expense.

They put in 30-45 hours a week getting 1200 per month. Out of that they paid €95 per week for their bed (and some of them are put in barracks type accommodation). Food is not provided and the canteen facilities exceeds the number of workers.

30 minutes break if they worked over 6 hours. So effectively €200 for a weeks back breaking work. Perhaps the most alarming thing in the interview was the lack of comprehension on what self isolation meant in the event of an Covid outbreak.

Was I incensed. Just a little bit.

The funniest thing about Graham's stance in this discussion is not only is he trapped in his own cocoon with regards to opening his mind about the problems this whole scenario has presented to our nation, he is also a moderator on this very forum in "accommodation and property".

You couldn't make it up, LOL.

STB.

Graham wrote: »

Is he the chap that called ESB staff spoiled while collecting €80k a year from the ESB?

The same fella referred to here: https://www.politicalirish.com/threads/ogle-unite-the-fake-left-exposed-by-apollo-house-stunt.11499/

From the same union pretending €400+ is just like €200.

That one?

Somebody give me a nudge if we ever get past the union flag waving.

I know Ogle has a mixed history even going back to his CIE days, but that interview was fairly damning.

400 like 200 ? I suggest you watch the interview. 1200 per month (or 300 per week minus 95 per week for accommodation) 200 per week seems to be right alright.

Perhaps you should watch the interview. There is more than just low pay going on in there. The staff are under tremendous pressure to even have the 12 week contract seen out from what I can see. That pressure underpinned by the money they had to pay to get here. Its scandalous.

maestroamado

Rows Grower wrote: »

The funniest thing about Graham's stance in this discussion is not only is he trapped in his own cocoon with regards to opening his mind about the problems this whole scenario has presented to our nation, he is also a moderator on this very forum in "accommodation and property".

You couldn't make it up, LOL.

The big con here for me here is €95 pw for what is likely a single bed in a shared room. They may be on-suite?
Keeling's to be fair are fallowing the rules and who am i to say but the living set-up i am not sure.
First of all i thought acc free, then i thought €95 bed+food which be fine.
Now €95 for bed.
The one good thing here is they will have to up their game for next year.
"unless we all forget"
I said earlier the daughter of my friend paying less than that for her own room in house Dromcondrs/Glasnevin...

eh i dunno

https://touch.daft.ie/sharing/swords-and-surrounds-dublin

Not many rooms available for €95 a week in swords which is probably the nearest town to keelings

Graham

maestroamado wrote: »

The big con here for me here is €95 pw for what is likely a single bed in a shared room..

I understand the R0 of Coronavirus is inversely proportional to the weekly rates for accommodation multiplied by the average hourly rate for fruit pickers divided by the number of union reps making videos.

Either that or none of it is particularly relevant to the initial outrage-a-thon.

Alrigghtythen

eh i dunno wrote: »

https://touch.daft.ie/sharing/swords-and-surrounds-dublin

Not many rooms available for €95 a week in swords which is probably the nearest town to keelings

They need to pay for a car and insurance out of the 200/week which would mean they are only being paid 140/week




Union maths

Rows Grower

eh i dunno wrote: »

https://touch.daft.ie/sharing/swords-and-surrounds-dublin

Not many rooms available for €95 a week in swords which is probably the nearest town to keelings

Big difference between renting a room and a bed, ask Graham, he should know.

maestroamado

eh i dunno wrote: »

https://touch.daft.ie/sharing/swords-and-surrounds-dublin

Not many rooms available for €95 a week in swords which is probably the nearest town to keelings

I am assuming that the living quarters on property owned by keelings.
That is the impression i got when the 2 week isolation was mentioned.
How could Keeling's organize in rented acc in swords.
So you think they are staying around Swords the local will love that...