Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So you want a whole food producer like Keepings shut down ?

If they cant compete and pay underlying costs,it isnt viable

Strawberries are one of few fruit,needs picking nowadays.....ive drove machines picking spudz,beet,carrots etc....helped a mate pdi apple picking machines,and a leek picker....its not exactly rocket science



Their putting all our health at risk,for their profits.....whole country stuck at home,everyone doing their best to not die/stay away from elderly relatives,no sport nor concerts etc allowed,

,and in fly 200 odd people to pick strawberries,a bit of perspective wouldnt go astray,before implying anyone againest this is a racist(not you,but it is openly implied)

KR127

KR127 wrote: »

Flights are only about 10% full at a strecth...

this one was full of cheap labour coming to undermine the Irish labour market.

Did many Irish apply for the positions?
And why the big rant about covid then? If it's merely a labour issue

lawred2

weldoninhio wrote: »

Strawberries don't grow in fields brainiac!! :rolleyes:

What? They are plants aren't they?

Gynoid

All this outrage.
That coffee and tea we are gasping for - what circumstances do we think allowed for it to be here for us? Those bananas, that avocado in the fruit bowl. The mangoes, tinned coconut milk? The rice, chillies, haricot beans in the tins. The mined ores that are behind our electronic gadgets. The brand name clothing. The cheap mass produced domestic appliances.
There is hardly one facet of our daily lives that has not been brought to us without the toil and sweat of abusively cheap if not enslaved labour.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

What? They are plants aren't they?

They grow on vines/branches in tunnels/greenhouses,not fields....i picked em,when i younger

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They grow on vines/branches in tunnels/greenhouses,not fields....i picked em,when i younger

So did I. And I was in a field. Was a fruit farm just down the road.. they were a bit of a cottage industry though for the local area. Not a Nationwide distributor. This was over twenty years ago.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Their putting all our health at risk,for their profits.....whole country stuck at home

Id be interested to know why you think they are putting our health at risk?
Probably the Bulgarians are putting their lives at greater risk from us.
And the whole country is not stuck at home. Some people are working.

Sober Crappy Chemis

Gynoid wrote: »

All this outrage.
That coffee and tea we are gasping for - what circumstances do we think allowed for it to be here for us? Those bananas, that avocado in the fruit bowl. The mangoes, tinned coconut milk? The rice, chillies, haricot beans in the tins. The mined ores that are behind our electronic gadgets. The brand name clothing. The cheap mass produced domestic appliances.
There is hardly one facet of our daily lives that has not been brought to us without the toil and sweat of abusively cheap if not enslaved labour.

But, but .... it’s all fair trade these days so I have a clear conscience!

(Sarcasm)

Grumpypants

They are returning workers with specific experience, not cheap labor. They will isolate for 14 days and will be working at distance. There is very little risk to keeping an essential service going.

How many of those moaning on Facebook are going to be stuffing their trolley with fruit in Aldi over the weekend. Where do they think this comes from.

dundalkfc10

Disgraceful scenes.

The govt should be ashamed of themselves.

They shouks get dole register and people on it longest should be told u have to work fruit picking or you are getting no free money anymore

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

So did I. And I was in a field. Was a fruit farm just down the road.. they were a bit of a cottage industry though for the local area. Not a Nationwide distributor.

You will grow alot more per area in a tunnel set up surely and not risk attack from birds??

Never heard of it in a field tbh :O....but that place i done it,is gone now and so is their veg,mostly ploughed back into grassland for dairying

completedit

Gynoid wrote: »

All this outrage.
That coffee and tea we are gasping for - what circumstances do we think allowed for it to be here for us? Those bananas, that avocado in the fruit bowl. The mangoes, tinned coconut milk? The rice, chillies, haricot beans in the tins. The mined ores that are behind our electronic gadgets. The brand name clothing. The cheap mass produced domestic appliances.
There is hardly one facet of our daily lives that has not been brought to us without the toil and sweat of abusively cheap if not enslaved labour.

It’s a good post but reality is, what we perceive as bad and terrible jobs, have helped people come out of poverty. So we have to be careful to not apply our standards to others.
I have problems with this but so far this system has been the best way of alleviating poverty. And it’s true that often these type of jobs will have high amount of demand.

Sober Crappy Chemis

Fun fact, strawberries don’t ‘know’ if they are growing in a tunnel or in a field!

whisky_galore

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Surely the obvious thing for anyone with isdue here is organise a boycott of any/all keelings products


If one of the workers coughs onto the fruit,how long deos virus live on that surface??

38 deaths in Bulgaria.

They're coming to work here in a country that's comparatively riddled with Covid.

weldoninhio

Graham wrote: »

Pandemic might kill us.

Starvation definitely will.

Nobody is going to starve from a lack of strawberries. :rolleyes:

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If they cant compete and pay underlying costs,it isnt viable

Strawberries are one of few fruit,needs picking nowadays.....ive drove machines picking spudz,beet,carrots etc....helped a mate pdi apple picking machines,and a leek picker....its not exactly rocket science



Their putting all our health at risk,for their profits.....whole country stuck at home,everyone doing their best to not die/stay away from elderly relatives,no sport nor concerts etc allowed,

,and in fly 200 odd people to pick strawberries,a bit of perspective wouldnt go astray,before implying anyone againest this is a racist(not you,but it is openly implied)

Don't kid yourself that these practices are not even worse in other parts of Europe that we depend on to supply our cheap fruit and veg. Do you think your fresh iceberg lettuce in December is sustainably produced by fair labour practices?


https://www.dw.com/en/spains-sea-of-plastic-where-europe-gets-its-produce-migrants-get-exploited/a-47824476

Elmo

s1ippy wrote: »

My understanding, as told to me by a lad who had tried to get work with them, is that they get food and board on the site and by providing this the company then skirts paying minimum wage, as they're just helpers and not officially employees, only paying them expenses incurred and pocket money.

I thought the government had stopped people doing this with au pears (yes there’s another pun in that also).

the.red.baron

are they paying them for the 2 weeks of quarantine?


for the all those saying irish wouldn't last 5 minutes at the job go away and ****e, people haven't gotten any softer over the years, just your old brains have



half the old farts on here who lived in the country will have done this as a summer job when it was legal to exploit child labour


its not that hard the pay is ****e though, i'm sure keeings make plenty money off these peoples backs though

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

Id be interested to know why you think they are putting our health at risk?
Probably the Bulgarians are putting their lives at greater risk from us.
And the whole country is not stuck at home. Some people are working.

Mate,their flying 200 odd people in from abroad,and whole country isnt allowed go more than 2km from their house....in what world is that right

Unless they being in quarantine for 2 weeks before coming,they are risking health of people working/living here,fresh strawberries are usually sold day they picked,if one of the pickers is a super spreader and no sythoms,how long can virus live on surface of the fruit/packaging??



I dont think strawberries/any food that cant be harvested mechanically is worth risking peoples health with this virus over

weldoninhio

Scotty # wrote: »

Strawberries account for about 1% of what Keeling process. Almost all fruit and veg on supermarket shelves is processed by Keelings. Having a workforce to do that is essential. With all due respect...

Keelings own statement says that these people are here to pick strawberries. Other fruit and veg have nothing to do with this.

Sober Crappy Chemis

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Disgraceful scenes.

The govt should be ashamed of themselves.

They shouks get dole register and people on it longest should be told u have to work fruit picking or you are getting no free money anymore

WhatsApp and Facebook called, they want their rant back...

Graham

Woodsie1 wrote: »

So why not get the processors in the milk factories back to work?

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/dairy-farmers-face-dumping-milk-as-processors-sweat-over-a-shut-down-39080341.html

Milk is slightly more important than a few poxy strawberries.

The article that doesn't say the milk processors have stopped but discusses what might happen if they did.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But migrant workers are not just brought in for strawberries alone, they are used to harvest a variety of food products.

And if that food supply starts to break down because of all this then we are in deep trouble.

Are the workers who arrived just here to pick strawberries or do they stay until the harvest season is over for all fruit and veg?

vicwatson

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So the flight came from Bulgaria, therefore DHL up the road from Dublin airport didn't load any booze onto the charter flight.

The aircraft left Dublin without passengers to collect these people from Bulgaria

arccosh

weldoninhio wrote: »

1. Wrong. They are earning €40 a day.

considering food and board is paid for... this isn't too bad

Elmo

arccosh wrote: »

considering food and board is paid for... this isn't too bad

Didn’t the government prevent this from happening in homes with au pairs?

Do they get their own room? What kind of food and board do they get?

vicwatson

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless they being in quarantine for 2 weeks before coming,they are risking health of people working/living here,fresh strawberries are usually sold day they picked,if one of the pickers is a super spreader and no sythoms,how long can virus live on surface of the fruit/packaging??

Ah sure ya can always wash them for 20 seconds in soap singing happy birthday twice. They’d be grand

vicwatson

arccosh wrote: »

considering food and board is paid for... this isn't too bad

Are they staying at An Grianan in termonfeckin?

weldoninhio

NIMAN wrote: »

I see a lot of posts about these folk getting paid a couple of Euro per hour.

Are foreign workers not protected by our minimum wage rates once they are working in the country?

Surely these workers are all above board and going through the books? It's not a cash in hand, black market job?

They'll officially be getting minimum wage, then food and board will be taken from it, leaving them with a pittance.

Elmo

vicwatson wrote: »

Are they staying at An Grianan in termonfeckin?

Seriously the HQ of the ICA?

Looked up au pairs you can deduct just 7.75 per day from their Minimum wage for food and board.

Graham

weldoninhio wrote: »

They'll officially be getting minimum wage, then food and board will be taken from it, leaving them with a pittance.

Source?

weldoninhio

Graham wrote: »

What else will you stop production/harvesting of now then?

Beer/Wine
Chocolate
Those small yoghurts for the kids
Biscuits
Cakes
Coffee
Tea

All non essential.

You really want to start down that road?

If they need a plane load of people in to produce/harvest then they should be stopped. They don't though. So you're talking shite.

whisky_galore

lawred2 wrote: »

Are we not eating food while we're in our houses?

You should only eat "essential" foods; spuds, potatoes and praties, turnips, bacon and cabbage.
Strawberries aren't essential food. This'll be great lads, it'll be like the Emergency all over again!

Fr Tod Umptious

Sober Crappy Chemis wrote: »

But, but .... it’s all fair trade these days so I have a clear conscience!

(Sarcasm)

I've always noticed that Fair Trade coffee is not as nice as the non Fair Trade stuff.

It's a bit like non alcoholic beer not tasting the same with the alcohol removed, the Fair Trade coffee does not taste the same with the exploitation removed

JustAThought

There are families who have not been able to visit their elderly relations in nursing homes and people with cancer hiding inside their houses terrified of going out in case they catch it and it will kill them.

There are Irish elderly who have worked and contributed to this society their entire lives and who are now being discarded as not worthwhile or cost efficient to treat based on the scoring system for entry to ICU adopted by the HSC.

There are roadblocks on the motorways and roads to prevent people travelling to second homes or to visit family outside a 2km limit.

Yet god know who from god knows where is allowed travel across the continent to hang out in north county dublin to pick ****ing strawberries.

this despite all the quangos, state agencies and so called emergency committees ‘organising’ a response and emergency legislation put into place to give the police powers to arrest and fine 1,500 people caught outside in the ‘wrong’ location.

The usual f’ing civil servant ‘manager’ tossers who couldn’t organise a biscuit for a capuchino in a bar.

What other life threatening exceptions are being allowed for the profit of other private companies like keelings?

weldoninhio

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Is it essential?

There is workers crammed in breweries to supply alcohol to the public as we speak.

Could be spreading the virus.

So where is the outrage?

There is none, because you are talking nonsense.

Elmo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It's a bit like non alcoholic beer not tasting the same with the alcohol removed, the Fair Trade coffee does not taste the same with the exploitation removed

I don’t know I have found that keelings fruit isn’t great.

Tacitus Kilgore

People shocked at how cheap food comes about, shocker

JustAThought

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

People shocked at how cheap food comes about, shocker

If it costs peoples lives it’s not so cheap.

And keelings is notoriously expensive.

paw patrol

Keelings statement is not believable

Currently The workers in keelings go into swords to buy food and I assume other stuff , they are picked up outside Lidl/JCs and a smaller number seem to hang about swords manor for a lift.

Are keelings going to do the shopping for these people under quarantine?

Are they going to keep these 189 away from the current labourers in keeling - who do frequent swords - I don't see how that is possible even if keelings tried to do this.

Some workers ( I cant say if they are keelings tbh) who work on these farms are housed in apartments around swords (applewood in particular) . How is that managed with regard to covid19 and new arrivals.

We should boycott keelings. Many people/companies have given up their jobs & income for the great good but they have choosen not too.

Woodsie1

Woodsie1 wrote: »

So why not get the processors in the milk factories back to work?

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/dairy-farmers-face-dumping-milk-as-processors-sweat-over-a-shut-down-39080341.html

Milk is slightly more important than a few poxy strawberries.

If they were coming in to work in milk factories, you would still be complaining about the foreigners.
The article you linked says nothing about the factories not working, but what could happen if one stopped. Also mentions that the milk yield produced this year is at an unprecedented amount.

"Our production managers are estimating that 2020 peak supply could be as high as an unprecedented 250 million litres per week."

Graham

Mr.S wrote: »

The logical answer is Keeling's should pay a decent wage so that local's would do it (tbh though, I really doubt they would get the numbers they need) instead of the need to bring in cheaper labour.

A UK charity recently ran a recruitment drive for fruit pickers to try and make up for the loss of migrant fruit pickers from the recently unemployed.

Last time I came across them, these were the approximate results:

36,000 registrations.
6,000 video interviews
900 job offers
112 agreed contracts to accept employment.

JustAThought

What nurse or doctor or clinical worker do you want to die so any of these untested imported bulgarians can get medical treatment?

Fr Tod Umptious

Mr.S wrote: »

Keeling's don't just pick strawberries.

The logical answer is Keeling's should pay a decent wage so that local's would do it (tbh though, I really doubt they would get the numbers they need) instead of the need to bring in cheaper labour.

To do that, shops like Lidl / Tesco and all the rest need to pay Keeling's more for their produce, which is currently pittance. So, they would need to increase costs to the consumer to still get their cut and make it a viable product on the shelf, which would effect sales (price goes up, sales go down) and no one want's to spend a lot of money on fruit & veg - it's dirt cheap for a reason.

It's a bit bonkers we need to import workers to do these jobs and the timing is absolutely awful for Keeling's - but who else is going to do it?

The alternative is a damaged supply chain for fruit & veg - I guarantee you the uproar about that would be more then a plane-full of Bulgarians coming into the country.

Keeling's are not exactly a star employer, let's be clear about that. They are also a business driven by making profit so will do everything within their business means to turn money over. I'd also hope the HSE drop by to make sure the staff are self-isolating in proper conditions over the next 14 days.

This is it.

My biggest concern about this whole pandemic is that the food supply chain will break down.

Haverters can't harvest.
Stocks go down
Prices go up
People out of work find it difficult to afford food
Etc etc etc.

If that starts to happen then we will be in far more serious bother than we are now.

timetogo1

weldoninhio wrote: »

They'll officially be getting minimum wage, then food and board will be taken from it, leaving them with a pittance.

So what's the argument here?

1: Don't give them food and board?
2: Pay them more?
3: Only hire Irish people who already have food and board (presumably with parents).

Each question has answers that are not black and white.

1: I'm not mad about that. They'd be going out into the community more then.
2: I'm fine with that. The price of our food will go up or we'll import more from other countries.
3: I'm fine with that too. If they can't get Irish workers then what? Automate and increase the cost of production or import our strawberries from abroad.

I presume Keelings aren't the only strawberry grower in Ireland. What do other producers do?

Tacitus Kilgore

JustAThought wrote: »

If it costs peoples lives it’s not so cheep.

And keelings is notoriously expensive.

You really don't get what I said there do ye

Graham

weldoninhio wrote: »

If they need a plane load of people in to produce/harvest then they should be stopped. They don't though. So you're talking shite.

So you're saying it's ok to ship people around our heavily infected country without issue it's just foreigners isolating on a farm that are a problem.

Or something else?

weldoninhio

bigroad wrote: »

Do the Irish government get a few quid from the euro union for taking workers in from poor euro countries.

Simon Coveney and Jim Keeling are quite good mates. I'm sure he'll get a fruit basket as a thank you.

Montage of Feck

Notdeco wrote: »

So a lot of Irish are without jobs now, and would love to get outside and work.

Yet people are being flown into the country to work?

Yea what could go wrong?
Keelings are going to pay the price for this imo.

No they won't, I'm guessing that the majority of fruit and veg brought in the supermarket is picked by migratery workers.

weldoninhio

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So the flight came from Bulgaria, therefore DHL up the road from Dublin airport didn't load any booze onto the charter flight.

The flight left from Dublin empty and returned full. :rolleyes:

Have you even read the basics before jumping in??