Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Great British attitudes towards Northern Ireland?

Options
24

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    Edgware wrote: »
    The Provisional IRA kept a terrorist campaign going for 25 years with minimal support.
    There are thousands of Loyalists who will never agree to a United Ireland. In such circumstances we would have massive security bills and dont expect Britain to pay

    They did but it was a different era in many ways. I think 9/11 change everything for such attacks in the western world. Eta in Spain went the same way as the IRA. Phone technology and other measures can track almost everyone. Yes there could be trouble but nothing like what was happening in the 70’s and 80’s.


  • Options
    #33
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    shenanagans wrote: »
    It's irrelevant how the English feel... My understanding is that if there's evidence that a majority up North would favour reunification then a referendum must be triggered.... it's part of the Good Friday Agreement.

    It's about momentum in Ireland ..... North and South.

    The tories are essentially an English party and look like being in power for the foreseeable. Pressure on a Secretary of State to call such a poll would be accentuated if the English wanted rid.

    Of course no such poll would be called unless the Irish govt were not also on board.


  • Options
    #34
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Edgware wrote: »
    There are thousands of Loyalists..

    What would they be fighting for exactly if they started shooting innocent Catholics again?


  • Options
    #35
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    The tories are essentially an English party and look like being in power for the foreseeable. Pressure on a Secretary of State to call such a poll would be accentuated if the English wanted rid.

    Of course no such poll would be called unless the Irish govt were not also on board.

    The GFA has a specific criteria for when a referendum would be called.

    The Secretary of State is under an obligation to institute a referendum if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would support a united Ireland.


  • Options
    #36
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    shenanagans wrote: »
    It's irrelevant how the English feel...

    It's not. Read the YouGov doc above. It was always thought by government there that a border poll would be unpopular with the British people...hence they never looked at calling one. If a Tory government think that most in Britain would support the calling of a poll that will feed into a decision.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It's not. Read the YouGov doc above. It was always thought by government there that a border poll would be unpopular with the British people...hence they never looked at calling one. If a Tory government think that most in Britain would support the calling of a poll that will feed into a decision.

    If a referendum was called who votes all Britain or just Northern Ireland?


  • Options
    #38
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    shenanagans wrote: »
    The GFA has a specific criteria for when a referendum would be called.

    The Secretary of State is under an obligation to institute a referendum if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would support a united Ireland.

    Do you honestly think the Secretary of State would call such a poll without consulting the Dublin govt and getting their consent? It’s not in the agreement but it goes without saying.


  • Options
    #39
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    shenanagans wrote: »
    If a referendum was called who votes all Britain or just Northern Ireland?

    Just the north. Same as Scotland.


  • Options
    #40
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    shenanagans wrote: »
    If a referendum was called who votes all Britain or just Northern Ireland?

    Northern Ireland and Ireland.


  • Options
    #41
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    Do you honestly think the Secretary of State would call such a poll without consulting the Dublin govt and getting their consent? It’s not in the agreement but it goes without saying.

    They all signed up to GFA.....so could they object if the evidence was there to support triggering a referendum.

    I don't know....but I can't see how they could really stop it or object have signed up to this agreement.???


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Northern Ireland and Ireland.

    And if it passed (not that I think it would).....even if the rest of Britain didn't agree could London stop it or object having agreed to GFA and referendum etc.


  • Options
    #43
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Nice to have some data:

    https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1253236954742820865?s=21

    that headline excluded the 11% who'd be delighted to see the back of NI.


  • Options
    #44
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    shenanagans wrote: »
    It's a cultural thing rather than a matter of being in a better position. There are many up North that identify as Irish and feel the North is part of Ireland and for many particularly SF supporters they take a drop in lifestyle to finally have a unified Ireland.

    Maybe the SF supporters would take a drop in lifestyle but how many of the rest of NI would be up for a drop in lifestyle or more taxes?


  • Options
    #45
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    Do you honestly think the Secretary of State would call such a poll without consulting the Dublin govt and getting their consent? It’s not in the agreement but it goes without saying.

    The only time a Tory SoS will call a poll is when it is politically expedient/advantageous to do it. What the SoS believes about the possibility of it passing will not factor.
    Yes, I agree they will consult if relations are good but if they were to fester over Brexit, who knows.
    In my opinion the British tacitly or emotionally withdrew when they signed the GFA so it will be a politically expedient decision when it comes.


  • Options
    #46
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    shenanagans wrote: »
    It's a cultural thing rather than a matter of being in a better position. There are many up North that identify as Irish and feel the North is part of Ireland and for many particularly SF supporters they take a drop in lifestyle to finally have a unified Ireland.

    a drop in lifestyle? :confused::confused:


  • Options
    #47
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Maybe the SF supporters would take a drop in lifestyle but how many of the rest of NI would be up for a drop in lifestyle or more taxes?

    Totally. I think support for a unified Ireland is overestimated. North and South


  • Options
    #48
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    shenanagans wrote: »
    And if it passed (not that I think it would).....even if the rest of Britain didn't agree could London stop it or object having agreed to GFA and referendum etc.

    They would have to break the GFA to stop it. They have guaranteed to effect it's passage through Government, however long that takes (ála Brexit for example).


  • Options
    #49
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »
    The English aren't as bad as the Scots. I dislike the English as a national identity but that doesn't mean I hate every English human. They have a sense of ownership over Ulster yet if Paddy went over to England and claimed that as him homeland that would be a different story. Paddy from Derry will be viewed as a foreigner yet they claim that Ulster is a home nation. I want nothing to do with the whole thing, it was just a curse to be born into post plantation Ulster, simple as that.

    Whichever home nation you`re from,the others are annoying (English annoy the Scots and vise versa, the Welsh annoy everyone and NI are always arguing amongst themselves)but that does`nt mean we don`t want to stay together.


  • Options
    #50
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The only time a Tory SoS will call a poll is when it is politically expedient/advantageous to do it. What the SoS believes about the possibility of it passing will not factor.
    Yes, I agree they will consult if relations are good but if they were to fester over Brexit, who knows.
    In my opinion the British tacitly or emotionally withdrew when they signed the GFA so it will be a politically expedient decision when it comes.

    Well in fairness it seems to be in the control of the SoS......I mean what evidence is sufficient..... who's to say?. Just because population demographics are changing doesn't mean all Catholics want out of UK.


  • Options
    #51
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,926 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Whichever home nation you`re from,the others are annoying (English annoy the Scots and vise versa, the Welsh annoy everyone and NI are always arguing amongst themselves)but that does`nt mean we don`t want to stay together.

    I don't see your point. Some annoyance about accents or whatever won't break up the union.

    The biggest electoral decision being forced through despite half of the home nations voting against it will be what tears the union apart. Nothing makes one question a relationship as effectively as being told they don't matter. No consensus has been sought and no attempt to allay fears has been made. Whatever the Tory right wants, it gets.

    Before you respond with 52% or whatever, that isn't my point. My point is that if you want to keep the union then you need to make sure each member feels valued. Regional assemblies and devolved powers can help with this but ultimately forcing upon them something they don't want isn't viable if the British public cares about the union which it patently does not.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Well in fairness it seems to be in the control of the SoS......I mean what evidence is sufficient..... who's to say?. Just because population demographics are changing doesn't mean all Catholics want out of UK.

    Technically yes... it will be the SoS who makes the big public announcement. But we know this is not how something of this scale will work. There will be many factors/pressures/incentives involved.

    As to demographics...I agree. It won't won't come down to that. It will be based on a mix of emotion and whether there is a chance it could work out to be in our interests to have a whole island working for itself, economically, healthwise and from a social point of view. The moderate Unionist realises this is not the 1920's anymore and Rome rule is not an issue. They might prefer to stay in the UK but they also know this is coming, they aren't fools.


  • Options
    #53
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I don't see your point. Some annoyance about accents or whatever won't break up the union.

    The biggest electoral decision being forced through despite half of the home nations voting against it will be what tears the union apart. Nothing makes one question a relationship as effectively as being told they don't matter. No consensus has been sought and no attempt to allay fears has been made. Whatever the Tory right wants, it gets.

    Before you respond with 52% or whatever, that isn't my point. My point is that if you want to keep the union then you need to make sure each member feels valued. Regional assemblies and devolved powers can help with this but ultimately forcing upon them something they don't want isn't viable if the British public cares about the union which it patently does not.

    I agree with that.All nations within the Union should have an equal input and feel valued- the days of the privileged toffs threatening countries with terrible war or riding roughshod over the rest of the UK have supposedly gone but the tories think not.


  • Options
    #54
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why not have belfast as capital?

    Well it is the capital of NI, but seeing as NI is a region within the UK, then London is their overarching Capital City, and a bloody great city it is too!
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Devolved power in stormont deosnt work, dup have seen to that, its a waste of everyones time pretending it does.

    :cool: I think you'll find that it's been Sinn Fein who have made sure the NI Assembly doesn't work, and not the DUP.

    Three years in the wilderness thanks to SF demands, not least that Arlene Foster be sacked before the assembly is back up & running .....

    Sinn Fein have gone out of their way in the last few years to make sure the assembly is down, possibly hoping that its doors would be shut for good....


  • Options
    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    Well it is the capital of NI, but seeing as NI is a region within the UK, then London is their overarching Capital City, and a bloody great city it is too!

    I think it would be a great capital for a utd ireland,large parts of dublin are only fit to.run a D9 through


    :cool: I think you'll find that it's been Sinn Fein who have made sure the NI Assembly doesn't work, and not the DUP.

    Three years in the wilderness thanks to SF demands, not least that Arlene Foster be sacked before the assembly is back up & running .....

    Sinn Fein have gone out of their way in the last few years to make sure the assembly is down, possibly hoping that its doors would be shut for good, so that Dublin could be called upon to take over the reigns.

    Meh....your entitled to your take on it,respectfully disagree mind.....

    either way stormont isnt worth.bothering with....it simply deosnt work and it&westminister have failed the 6 counties in this crisis....time to be run on all-island basis


  • Options
    #56
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Stormont was grinding to a halt long before RHI was exposed because of intransigence and misuse of the PoC by the DUP.

    You only haave to look at WHO walked away from a deal to get it up and running and who the Secretary of State blamed for no new deal. The DUP.


  • Options
    #57
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    shenanagans wrote: »
    You're spot on. Catholics will out number protestants before long. But do all Catholics want a united Ireland or are many happy with that status quo??

    And would a referendum pass in the South??? I doubt it.

    I really dont see why so many seem to see this as a NI is either part of the UK or part of Ireland. The choice should be either stay in the UK or independence. If after a generation or so of independence its a stable, properly functioning country, approach the unification issue.
    Edgware wrote: »
    When the South starts looking at the cost they might be slow enough to vote yes.

    The lead up to a referedum would put the Brexit one to shame. Republicans doing all they can to bang the Ireland drum without any entertaining of any bad sides. They might even have a few busses going around saying how great it'll be for everyone..........


  • Options
    #58
    6541
    Registered Users Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭6541


    I love the following analogy, living in Northern Ireland is like living in a free house with all bills paid for by a landlord. As an Irish person living there you should make it your business to pay as little taxs as possible and every opportunity you get you should claim off the landlord aka state !


  • Options
    #59
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »



    The lead up to a referedum would put the Brexit one to shame. Republicans doing all they can to bang the Ireland drum without any entertaining of any bad sides. They might even have a few busses going around saying how great it'll be for everyone..........

    That's a bit like criticising a political party for trying to win an election. Ridiculously bitchy there Guy.
    It will be interesting to see the busses of those wishing to continue partition though.


  • Options
    #60
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see the busses of those wishing to continue partition though.

    Now that would be a clown-show.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    That's a bit like criticising a political party for trying to win an election. Ridiculously bitchy there Guy.
    It will be interesting to see the busses of those wishing to continue partition though.

    I'm talking about down here though. All we'll get is the how great it'll be side with detractors told they aren't patriots and get called west Brits.


Advertisement