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Great British attitudes towards Northern Ireland?

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13

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    #62
    dd973
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dd973


    The majority of English and Welsh people just see NI as some 'over there, fractious, pain in the neck place' that costs unnecessary time and money and aren't attuned to the way we can broadly differentiate Nationalists/Republicans/Loyalists/Unionists/small u Unionists like we can or for the most part can they tell the people apart based on surname, cultural leanings and sometimes appearance like we can.

    There's a very small minority of British Nationalist English who are into the whole Unionist thing, usually either unimportant football hooligan/EDL types or the Army Barmy types who regard slavish worship of British Army militarism as ubiquitous with patriotism. They're usually obsessed with the IRA and have an internalised version of events wherein the Nationalists are the planters, the trouble makers and insurgents and Northern Ireland is some sovereign nation originally peopled by Ulster Scots.

    Scotland has gotten a lot more interesting in recent years, there's a growing presence of pro-Independence Scots whom are utterly disdainful of the Ibrox Orange types, seeing them as sectarian dupes totally hoodwinked by British Nationalism, the Monarchy, Eton and Westminster. Of course due to history and geographical proximity the West of Scotland has always been better informed and more aware of the going's on across the North Channel, but there's always been a Scottish Nationalist contingent that despises Ulster Unionism, even if they stem from a Scottish Protestant background.

    The 'Donegal Glaswegian's' in Glasgow and the surrounding towns pretty much self-identify as Irish and many have Irish citizenship. Try walking into a Celtic pub in Glasgow with a Northern Ireland top and see how they stand on the issue!


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    #63
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    I'm talking about down here though. All we'll get is the how great it'll be side with detractors told they aren't patriots and get called west Brits.

    No you won't. That's probably your guilt complex shining there.

    There will be people selling the benefits though. If your only objection is, the British or Unionists might be unhappy or disgruntled then you will be asked why you are not thinking of your fellow Irish man and woman first.
    Up until the GFA, Unionists with the backing of the British had their go...they failed spectacularly and tragically by any metric. It's time for another go at it. We don't deserve some of our islanders living in an abnormal society that requires two sovereign governments to run.


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    #64
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Most of them seem to want to get rid of NI.


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    #65
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Most of them seem to want to get rid of NI.

    But the can't just "get rid" of one part of the United Kingdom, unless that country or region wishes to leave by their own free will. Take Scotland as another example, the rest of the UK can't just tell them to pack up & leave, although they may do anyway post Brexit?

    And if Scotland breaks away,, well then who knows what's next ???


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    #66
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    But the can't just "get rid" of one part of the United Kingdom, unless that country or region wishes to leave by their own free will. Take Scotland as another example, the rest of the UK can't just tell them to leave, although they may do anyway post Brexit?

    If Scotland breaks away,, well then who knows what's next ???

    They can affect the outcome of a poll though. It took a massive mobilisation North to keep the Scots in last time. Remember Cameron and Brown and all the Tories imploring Scotland to remain? That proved pivotal.
    They could easily elect not to do that.
    In fact, I would expect many MP's to encourage a UI.


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    #67
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,659 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    They can affect the outcome of a poll though. It took a massive mobilisation North to keep the Scots in last time. Remember Cameron and Brown and all the Tories imploring Scotland to remain? That proved pivotal.
    They could easily elect not to do that.
    In fact, I would expect many MP's to encourage a UI.

    I wouldn't be so sure of that Francie.


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    #68
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I wouldn't be so sure of that Francie.

    Why?

    If it is politically expedient for a british government to offload NI I think you would see MP's couch it in 'It's for the best' terms. And I think there would be many non-Tory MP's who would naturally see it as the right thing. I haven't looked too closely at current opinions, but the there were always Labour MP's who thought it was the right thing.


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    #69
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    dd973 wrote: »
    The majority of English and Welsh people just see NI as some 'over there, fractious, pain in the neck place' that costs unnecessary time and money and aren't attuned to the way we can broadly differentiate Nationalists/Republicans/Loyalists/Unionists/small u Unionists like we can or for the most part can they tell the people apart based on surname, cultural leanings and sometimes appearance like we can.

    There's a very small minority of British Nationalist English who are into the whole Unionist thing, usually either unimportant football hooligan/EDL types or the Army Barmy types who regard slavish worship of British Army militarism as ubiquitous with patriotism. They're usually obsessed with the IRA and have an internalised version of events wherein the Nationalists are the planters, the trouble makers and insurgents and Northern Ireland is some sovereign nation originally peopled by Ulster Scots.

    Scotland has gotten a lot more interesting in recent years, there's a growing presence of pro-Independence Scots whom are utterly disdainful of the Ibrox Orange types, seeing them as sectarian dupes totally hoodwinked by British Nationalism, the Monarchy, Eton and Westminster. Of course due to history and geographical proximity the West of Scotland has always been better informed and more aware of the going's on across the North Channel, but there's always been a Scottish Nationalist contingent that despises Ulster Unionism, even if they stem from a Scottish Protestant background.

    The 'Donegal Glaswegian's' in Glasgow and the surrounding towns pretty much self-identify as Irish and many have Irish citizenship. Try walking into a Celtic pub in Glasgow with a Northern Ireland top and see how they stand on the issue!

    Its important to consider the views of the local pissheads and useful idiots. Same reaction you would get if you wore a Rep of Ireland top in to a Rangers pub.


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    #70
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    6541 wrote: »
    I love the following analogy, living in Northern Ireland is like living in a free house with all bills paid for by a landlord. As an Irish person living there you should make it your business to pay as little taxs as possible and every opportunity you get you should claim off the landlord aka state !
    Why wouldn’t you. Look at what your taxes go towards. Royal family, trident, foreign policy etc. **** that


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    #71
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    The Brits should give Leo the Six counties for his " help “ with Brexit.

    It would be a Win Win for the Brits !


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    #72
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    blinding wrote: »
    The Brits should give Leo the Six counties for his " help “ with Brexit.

    It would be a Win Win for the Brits !

    But not for Ireland. We're in enough debt already. Thanks very much.


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    #73
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    shenanagans wrote: »
    But not for Ireland. We're in enough debt already. Thanks very much.
    Ireland does not come into it for the Brits and Leo has earned it !;)


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    #74
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    blinding wrote: »
    Ireland does not come into it for the Brits and Leo has earned it !;)

    Ireland does not come into it ??


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    #75
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    They shaould never have agreed to partition in the first place and it would have got sorted 100 years ago, there would have probably been a civil war but it would have been no worse than the one which did happen after partition.


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    #76
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    They shaould never have agreed to partition in the first place and it would have got sorted 100 years ago, there would have probably been a civil war but it would have been no worse than the one which did happen after partition.
    Big Island Brits know this only too well and want to put it right and save themselves a fortune of course ! !:D


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    #77
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    They shaould never have agreed to partition in the first place and it would have got sorted 100 years ago, there would have probably been a civil war but it would have been no worse than the one which did happen after partition.

    At present I couldn't give a shot about the history of it. It comes down to money and cost for me. Don't think everyone up North would be happy either so why rock the boat. Things are fine as they are now.


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    #78
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Ireland does not come into it ??
    Ireland has never been important in Britain and thats why they have never made any go at running Ireland.


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    #79
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    blinding wrote: »
    Big Island Brits know this only too well and want to put it right and save themselves a fortune of course ! !:D

    Brits had it for last 100 years since the partition. Haven't invested anything in it. Economically it's made little progress. They can't find themselves. Subsidised hugely by London ......now they want to hand it back. No thanks.

    Not unless they continue to subsidise it long-term in a divorce deal.


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    #80
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    blinding wrote: »
    Ireland has never been important in Britain and thats why they have never made any go at running Ireland.

    Why keep the 6 counties 100 years ago if it's never been important to them?


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    #81
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Why keep the 6 counties 100 years ago if it's never been important to them?
    They have been waiting for someone as Capable as Leo to come along. Now that Leo is here they reckon he is the one that can handle it.

    That, and saving themselves a fortune has convinced them that the time is right.

    Its got a nice little earner , Luvely Jubbly feel about it:D:D


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    #82
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    shenanagans wrote: »
    At present I couldn't give a shot about the history of it. It comes down to money and cost for me. Don't think everyone up North would be happy either so why rock the boat. Things are fine as they are now.
    No they’re not. All well and good for those Irish happy to see the country partitioned, funny they mostly seem to be in the 26. How can you casually dismiss something that has never properly been examined?


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    #83
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Why keep the 6 counties 100 years ago if it's never been important to them?

    They never intended or thought partition would last as it was a ridiculous notion, economically and socially
    It was political expediency to solve a problem.
    Little did they know that it would come back to bite them the way it has on many fronts. Not least, wrecking Brexit on them and putting them on a damaging back foot.


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    #84
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    They never intended or thought partition would last as it was a ridiculous notion, economically and socially
    It was political expediency to solve a problem.
    Little did they know that it would come back to bite them the way it has on many fronts. Not least, wrecking Brexit on them and putting them on a damaging back foot.

    They wanted the North 100 years ago because it was the economic and industrial hub of Ireland. Left us with the rest. North had an huge mill and steel/ship industry in the past .....it was valuable then. Brits haven't invested anything in it since and now happy to give it back. Better be offering a fab divorce settlement. Because we can't afford to take it on.


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    #85
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    They never intended or thought partition would last as it was a ridiculous notion, economically and socially
    It was political expediency to solve a problem.
    Little did they know that it would come back to bite them the way it has on many fronts. Not least, wrecking Brexit on them and putting them on a damaging back foot.
    The certainly would not have divided it where they did, if they thought that it was going to be long term.

    Twas a mess and there is no long term future in from now, at least ! !


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    #86
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    shenanagans wrote: »
    They wanted the North 100 years ago because it was the economic and industrial hub of Ireland. Left us with the rest. North had an huge mill and steel/ship industry in the past .....it was valuable then. Brits haven't invested anything in it since and now happy to give it back. Better be offering a fab divorce settlement. Because we can't afford to take it on.

    Read the docs from the time...they didnt expect partition to last.
    That NI became important to their war efforts they couldnt have known.

    Partition was and is a mistake and will never work without our and Britain's intervention and oversight.


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    #87
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Read the docs from the time...they didnt expect partition to last.
    That NI became important to their war efforts they couldnt have known.

    Partition was and is a mistake and will never work without our and Britain's intervention and oversight.
    Another Fine Mess by the British in Ireland. They never learned in Ireland and so it continues.

    Time to say Goodbye !


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    #88
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Read the docs from the time...they didnt expect partition to last.
    That NI became important to their war efforts they couldnt have known.

    Partition was and is a mistake and will never work without our and Britain's intervention and oversight.

    Why didn't they hand it bad years ago so?

    If the Brits wanted to give the North back why not integrate education up there since the GFA.

    Schools are still Catholic or Protestant. They don't mix.

    How do you prepare for reunification when society is like that? Reunification won't be harmonious.....it will be bitter if it happens.

    I think they need to prepare long term for such a measure.


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    #89
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    shenanagans wrote: »
    Why didn't they hand it bad years ago so?

    If the Brits wanted to give the North back why not integrate education up there since the GFA.

    Schools are still Catholic or Protestant. They don't mix.

    How do you prepare for reunification when society is like that? Reunification won't be harmonious.....it will be bitter if it happens.

    I think they need to prepare long term for such a measure.

    There are Catholic and Protestant schools here and in Britain.

    Britain doesn't want a blood bath that is their issue. That is why they won't just hand it back.
    The GFA is perfect way for them to withdraw.
    Let the demographics apply the pressure and let democracy do the rest - perfect for them.


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    #90
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There are Catholic and Protestant schools here and in Britain.

    Britain doesn't want a blood bath that is their issue. That is why they won't just hand it back.
    The GFA is perfect way for them to withdraw.
    Let the demographics apply the pressure and let democracy do the rest - perfect for them.
    The Final British Solution to the Irish Problem ! !:D


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    #91
    TheRepentent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why not have belfast as capital?

    Fuk no...it's worse than Cork

    Wanna support genocide?Cheer on the murder of women and children?The Ruzzians aren't rapey enough for you? Morally bankrupt cockroaches and islamaphobes , Israel needs your help NOW!!

    http://tinyurl.com/2ksb4ejk


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes

    https://www.btselem.org/



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