Pump for outdoor rainwater shower

ana_conda

I am looking to install an rainwater outdoor shower on a first floor balcony.


I am hoping that this pump will work and if not would any of you know a pump that would work?



https://www.trotec24.com/en-de/tools/submerged-water-pumps/garden-pump-tgp-1000-e.html



I plan on trying to pump the rain water from a barrel on the ground floor of my home up to a gas powered shower on our balcony (first floor at approx. 3m to 4m high).



This is the shower we have purchased and all the spec is listed on here.



https://www.ebay.ie/itm/12L-Gas-LPG-Hot-Water-Heater-Propane-Tankless-Instant-Boiler-Shower-Ridgeyard/223063002343?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



the shower needs Water Pressure of; Min.0.02MPa.Max.0.8MPa, Starting Pressure: 0.025MPa


In your expert opinion will the tortec pump work in this setting? I've attached pictures of the set up below

Sleeper12

What filtration system are you planning on using? Legionnaires disease is something to plan around

DGOBS

A. This a gas appliance, it will be illegal for you to fit this yourself.
B. It does not come with a flue (but it does require one)
D. Is this appliance specified for outdoor use?
E. Funny it has it's ISO certificate displayed prominently, but I can't see the CE mark on the Data Badge (where is normally is?)
F. As above, rainwater isn't safe to use for a shower, think about birds poop on your roof where your collecting the water amoung other issues

If it's not CE marked, then no registered gas installer can install it for you. (not sure if this is the case, but possibly is)

ana_conda

DGOBS wrote: »

A. This a gas appliance, it will be illegal for you to fit this yourself.
B. It does not come with a flue (but it does require one)
D. Is this appliance specified for outdoor use?
E. Funny it has it's ISO certificate displayed prominently, but I can't see the CE mark on the Data Badge (where is normally is?)
F. As above, rainwater isn't safe to use for a shower, think about birds poop on your roof where your collecting the water amoung other issues

If it's not CE marked, then no registered gas installer can install it for you. (not sure if this is the case, but possibly is)

Wow what an annoying response!

Sleeper12

ana_conda wrote: »

Wow what an annoying response!

I'm not sure if this is tongue in cheek but it is a very informative post, designed to save you time & money & maybe save a life or two at the same time.

DGOBS

Wow what an annoying response!

Thanks for your free professional opinion, would have been more appropriate!

ana_conda

DGOBS wrote: »

Thanks for your free professional opinion, would have been more appropriate!

Nobody answered what I actually asked!?!

Wearb

ana_conda wrote: »

Wow what an annoying response!

MOD NOTE: REMAIN CIVIL OR POST YOUR QUESTIONS ELSEWHERE.

dathi

ana_conda wrote: »

Nobody answered what I actually asked!?!

yes the pump would work if it was fitted with a water pressure switch but you would also need to fit a water filter and disinfect it with uv light .all the above you can do legally but as the other posters have tried to point out. any work on a gas appliance in Ireland is not permitted unless you are a registered gas installer

ana_conda

dathi wrote: »

yes the pump would work if it was fitted with a water pressure switch but you would also need to fit a water filter and disinfect it with uv light .all the above you can do legally but as the other posters have tried to point out. any work on a gas appliance in Ireland is not permitted unless you are a registered gas installer

Thank you

10pennymixup

The pump is fine as a garden water feature pump and could be adapted to your proposed use with the WPS, water steriliser, and filter mentioned before.

Your issue is the cheap (€80 including international postage), Chinese geyser.

Customer review:
"These Tankless Units are total Junk! ...snip..... First off the unit would NEVER ignite on the first try, ever. It would always build up a lot of unburnt propane gas and by the time it would ignite it would create an explosion. Secondly the heat exchanger inside the unit is made out of such cheap and thin copper than after a week it started leaking badly from inside the water heater."

Other reviews also mention explosions, gas valves that don't turn off and overheating to the point of melting.

Even the manufacturer recommends checking the unit regularly for gas leaks.

Guess you get what you pay for!

DGOBS

Hence no apparent CE mark!

All gas appliances in Ireland must adhere to the GAD (Gas Appliance Directive) and hold a CE mark.
And all for good reason. (but sure what would we know!)

But the OP isn't worried (just annoyed) that people here are giving life saving advice, isn't a shower on your balcony :rolleyes: so much more important.

Natural selection at it's finest

ana_conda

DGOBS wrote: »

Hence no apparent CE mark!

All gas appliances in Ireland must adhere to the GAD (Gas Appliance Directive) and hold a CE mark.
And all for good reason. (but sure what would we know!)

But the OP isn't worried (just annoyed) that people here are giving life saving advice, isn't a shower on your balcony :rolleyes: so much more important.

Natural selection at it's finest

A. Don't be annoyed that people are posting helpful responses
B. Its clear your initial response just served to annoy and nothing else

C. Are you now hoping that I will be killed because I pointed out your original post wasn't helpful just really self-righteous

C. Aren't people who post ABCD just really annoying!

DGOBS

Lad, I have been in this industry for many years, and I have seen all kinds of stupid.

If you undertake work like this yourself, you are putting lives at risk, and I am not being in anyway funny about that.

I could not give a toss about you and your pump questions, of someone has neither the skill nor experience that I and other here spent years gaining. I gave you some very important safety pointers on the work you are attempting to undertake, it was you who decided to be the smart arse.

Nobody is hoping anyone gets killed, because we have seen this up close and personal, and it ain't pretty, but you just seem to ignore that fact someone went out of their way on a Sunday morning to actually give you IMPORTANT SAFETY ADVICE on what you see as a fun DIY project (which it isn't!)

But look, if you know better (as the one who took offence at my post of advice) off with you, and just so you know, illegal gas works (that you are proposing) in this country carry with it a hefty fine and/or a prison sentence. Also your house insurance will be null and void.

Now off with you little lad, and decide for yourself.

embraer170

I know I am not helping either but can someone tell me what is the point of having a shower on your balcony.

What am I missing?

ana_conda

DGOBS wrote: »

Lad, I have been in this industry for many years, and I have seen all kinds of stupid.

If you undertake work like this yourself, you are putting lives at risk, and I am not being in anyway funny about that.

I could not give a toss about you and your pump questions, of someone has neither the skill nor experience that I and other here spent years gaining. I gave you some very important safety pointers on the work you are attempting to undertake, it was you who decided to be the smart arse.

Nobody is hoping anyone gets killed, because we have seen this up close and personal, and it ain't pretty, but you just seem to ignore that fact someone went out of their way on a Sunday morning to actually give you IMPORTANT SAFETY ADVICE on what you see as a fun DIY project (which it isn't!)

But look, if you know better (as the one who took offence at my post of advice) off with you, and just so you know, illegal gas works (that you are proposing) in this country carry with it a hefty fine and/or a prison sentence. Also your house insurance will be null and void.

Now off with you little lad, and decide for yourself.

Interesting that you think I am a man

FluffPiece

embraer170 wrote: »

I know I am not helping either but can someone tell me what is the point of having a shower on your balcony.

What am I missing?

You're probably missing notions...

ana_conda

embraer170 wrote: »

I know I am not helping either but can someone tell me what is the point of having a shower on your balcony.

What am I missing?

Its not massively necessary (as a woman with curly hair) rainwater does a lovely job of washing it...Nothing better!!



Rather than constantly farting about with a kettle and a watering can an upstairs shower on my balcony with a view would be a nice alternative. And as i have the time at the moment this somewhat frivolous job will also be done.



Over this break I've figured out that not all plumbing jobs are rocket science. I have removed my downstairs bathroom (toilet sink) and tiled it all and put everything back without a bother. I think I'll figure this one out too.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

ana_conda wrote: »

C. Are you now hoping that I will be killed because I pointed out your original post wasn't helpful just really self-righteous

No one is hoping you’ll be killed, they’re pointing out that you probably will be killed if you venture down this route.

ana_conda

FluffPiece wrote: »

You're probably missing notions...

Yeah that's me living that far away BIG dream!!... Such a big dreamer!


Who knew that a rainwater shower was so posh now I'm defo putting one in!!


Ga wan Hatton ya dreamer!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCmQkIKODso

Sleeper12

ana_conda wrote:

Its not massively necessary (as a woman with curly hair) rainwater does a lovely job of washing it...Nothing better!!

It's the softest water you'll ever find. I'd imagine you'd need no conditioner. I know running a washing machine on harvested rainwater you'll never use fabric softener.

dathi

ana_conda wrote: »

Its not massively necessary (as a woman with curly hair) rainwater does a lovely job of washing it...Nothing better!!



Over this break I've figured out that not all plumbing jobs are rocket science. I have removed my downstairs bathroom (toilet sink) and tiled it all and put everything back without a bother. I think I'll figure this one out too.

just have a quick read here before you start

https://www.constructionireland.ie/construction-news/128548/lpg-installers-legislation-updated

ana_conda

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's the softest water you'll ever find. I'd imagine you'd need no conditioner. I know running a washing machine on harvested rainwater you'll never use fabric softener.

Amazing that you are running your washing machine off it! That's a great idea and very environmentally friendly....I couldn't believe that one little shower of rain filled up the barrel in one afternoon.



So far on here for coming up with this idea I have notions above my station! I am probably going to die (natural selection because I am stupid)

or I'll just be scalded to death for buying something cheap from China (cause nothing we regularly buy is manufactured there) and If that doesn't get me the law will up to 3 years in prison and a 15K fine.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Will you be getting Daniel O’Donnell to fit it for you?

ana_conda

Jaxson Quaint Lung wrote: »

Will you be getting Daniel O’Donnell to fit it for you?

are you a plumber.... worried about the economy?

corkgsxr

There's multiple issues with your design.

Is the boiler able to take the pressure that pump will put in.

Will it flow too much and not heat the water effectively.

Yes needs a flue. Also compable units in priced are near 1000 euro. That alone should make you wonder at quality.

You need to test for leaks. Lpg is much more explosive than natural gas piped in. Its window of lighting is much lower and much higher.

Unit may not last long before blocking up as water your sending through isn't clean.

Have you sized your tank so you don't have water sitting there unused for long periods. That will build up alge and likes and block up your filters.

To be honest it's a mess of a idea. Imo

DGOBS

corkgsxr, don't waste your time one this one, she (and apologise for my presumption, in my haste it's normally men here who propose killing themselves by undertaking restricted works with the knowledge or equipment required in my experience) doesn't;t want to hear about safety and whats is illegal gas works.

but what do professional gas qualified people and phd microbiologists know about this stuff anyway that you can't get from youtube.

ana_conda

corkgsxr wrote: »

There's multiple issues with your design.

Is the boiler able to take the pressure that pump will put in.

Will it flow too much and not heat the water effectively.

Yes needs a flue. Also compable units in priced are near 1000 euro. That alone should make you wonder at quality.

You need to test for leaks. Lpg is much more explosive than natural gas piped in. Its window of lighting is much lower and much higher.

Unit may not last long before blocking up as water your sending through isn't clean.

Have you sized your tank so you don't have water sitting there unused for long periods. That will build up alge and likes and block up your filters.

To be honest it's a mess of a idea. Imo

Honestly.... I have given too much of my day to this forum!



I would have the job done by the time I reply to all the naysayers on here.



When I order all the bits I need and I achieve the engineering challenge of the centenary (that is if I live, am not permanently scarred or in jail) I'll post up a little video of the working shower



This place has taken up enough of my day I'm out!

10pennymixup

There's just no arguing with thick!!

DGOBS

Interesting that you think I am a man

More interesting, that thats the only point you took from this!!

Rodney Bathgate

embraer170 wrote: »

I know I am not helping either but can someone tell me what is the point of having a shower on your balcony.

What am I missing?

If the OP is an attractive lady then I am all for her having a shower on her balcony.

DGOBS

dead from the neck up though.....

Along with your picture, I'd love to see your results for tightness testing, and flue gas analysis to confirm your installation safety, long with your legally required certificate of gas conformance (cert 2) and the fleeing arrangements you used and calculated given the appliance doesn't arrive with a manufacturers flue, and while your at it, how you qualified using an appliance IP rated for internal use, externally, but stayed within regulations.

Also if you don't treat the water correctly, enjoy the e-coli microbes, I believe ingesting them is very healthy for you, and your hair.

But sure, be grand!

Tell that to the poor sod in Clare a few months ago with 75% burns on his entire body! (was extremely lucky to survive)

Bonzo Delaney

Dont shoot the messenger but would swapping the gas shower for Triton t 90 with a header tank above be a solution

newirishman

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Dont shoot the messenger but would swapping the gas shower for Triton t 90 with a header tank above be a solution

Or maybe an electric under sink water heater, coupled with a simple water filtration system. Less likely to explode.

Rainwater is grand for washing machine and toilets (and by all means the odd shower) assuming you put in a filtration system.

Sleeper12

Bonzo Delaney wrote:

Dont shoot the messenger but would swapping the gas shower for Triton t 90 with a header tank above be a solution

It would still require filtration system to avoid legionnaires disease. It will require a dedicated pump to get the water from the barrel to the header tank. It will require a Registered Electricl Contractor for installation.

I can't see this being a cheap option. Shower, pump, header tank and labour over 1000 euro. I've no idea on the cost of the filtration system

10pennymixup

Considering the OP's lack of experience of gas and building reg's they might be better off with something like this:

https://www.ultimateoutdoors.com/equipment/303844-higear-solar-shower-20.html/1201891/?istCompanyId=415fd961-0fbe-471a-8d25-aa4bf950e4dc&istFeedId=10340d64-a82e-4c76-96f7-8ea1b1449852&istItemId=ipiqqipia&istBid=tztx&gclid=CjwKCAjw7e_0BRB7EiwAlH-goG67cQoqOMiX5FTaCQyhvkB8jaH46UUOUq6vovWVOoplghyNNIILiBoClpcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

DGOBS

Sleeper, would need more than legionnaires protection, as there would be e-coli in the water collected from the roof (bird poop etc)
as would be some real nasties in there.

DGOBS

When I order all the bits I need and I achieve the engineering challenge of the centenary (that is if I live, am not permanently scarred or in jail) I'll post up a little video of the working shower

Along with your post code, the gas regulator will be very interested in speaking with you.

corkgsxr

DGOBS wrote: »

corkgsxr, don't waste your time one this one, she (and ap......... that you can't get from youtube.

Ah I could see that already. Mental tack