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Prospective Landlord Requesting Payslip

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135

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    #62
    rodDaly69
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭rodDaly69


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Why not select tenants who provide what you ask for?

    Fair enough, if that's what the landlord wants. I just wasn't going to play that game. Why does a landlord need to know the minutiae of my financial life? I understand he needs to know I have the means to pay, and he can go run a credit check against me too if he would like! But to know what euro and cent goes where in my life for the last 3 months is OTT. I also had a reference from my current landlord that I was a tenant for the last couple of years & my rent was always paid in full on time, etc.

    Thankfully I didn't have to play this guys bent game as I wasn't up against the wall looking for a place, I had time on my side. Hope I'm never in a position where I do have to swallow my rights though.


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    #63
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    rodDaly69 wrote: »
    Fair enough, if that's what the landlord wants. I just wasn't going to play that game. Why does a landlord need to know the minutiae of my financial life? I understand he needs to know I have the means to pay, and he can go run a credit check against me too if he would like! But to know what euro and cent goes where in my life for the last 3 months is OTT. I also had a reference from my current landlord that I was a tenant for the last couple of years & my rent was always paid in full on time, etc.

    Thankfully I didn't have to play this guys bent game as I wasn't up against the wall looking for a place, I had time on my side. Hope I'm never in a position where I do have to swallow my rights though.

    To try and mitigate risk. If it was easier to remove a non paying tenant, there would be no need to seek this type of information. But it isn’t easy to remove a non paying tenant and even if the RTB rules in the LLs favour, there is little chance of recovering rent owed/costs. So LLs try to get as much info as possible to help them to choose among the applicants.


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    #64
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    So you wouldn't select tenants who would make sure their rights are upheld?

    And people say tenants have all the power...

    I don't select tenants at all. That is the agents job.


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    #65
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    I don't select tenants at all. That is the agents job.

    That's fine. But you still spoke about how you, not your agent, wouldn't select tenants who "stood out". You said it would be a waste of your time, not your agents.

    I'm just pointing out that you, or anyone who would do this, would be effectively penalising tenants for standing up for their rights.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Because landlords shouldn't be asking for this type of information at this stage. You're basically asking why not select tenants who will let the landlord break the law.

    And I'm sure I don't have to explain why that's not a good thing.

    How is asking for something like this breaking the law? You can ask for almost anything non sexual. The person being asked has the right to refuse the request.


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    #67
    James 007
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭James 007


    MissyN wrote: »
    And this guy is coming from Limerick to do the viewing with me so I suppose that makes sense (I’ve already sent my payslip so I’m trying to talk myself round here!)
    Yes, with Covid-19 gone now & the rules relaxed, he should be fine now to freely come from limerick:rolleyes: unless he is deeming the work is essential:pac:


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    #68
    celticWario
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭celticWario


    In my case I had been searching for months, going to viewing after viewing and getting nowhere, so when the Letting Agent asked for a payslip and bank statement, I was desperate so they got it.


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    #69
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    How is asking for something like this breaking the law? You can ask for almost anything non sexual.

    Under data protection laws, businesses can't collect excessive amounts of information. Asking for personal financial information just for the purposes of arranging a viewing of a property, is excessive.

    The Data Protection Commissioner's guidance might be of interest to you - https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-07/190710%20Requesting%20Personal%20Data%20from%20Prospective%20Tenants.pdf.
    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    The person being asked has the right to refuse the request.

    They do, but then they are risking the chance of not getting a viewing. And at least one landlord here has said they wouldn't chose a tenant who would "stand out and cause hassle", i.e. refusing to provide unnecessary information.

    And before you say that this is the chance someone takes when they refuse to provide the information, I suggest you first read the section on consent in the DPC's guidance.


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    #70
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,377 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    That's fine. But you still spoke about how you, not your agent, wouldn't select tenants who "stood out". You said it would be a waste of your time, not your agents.

    I'm just pointing out that you, or anyone who would do this, would be effectively penalising tenants for standing up for their rights.


    and do you doubt that happens?


    If you ere selecting someone to look after the most expensive asset you are ever going to own bar your family home and you had 20 candidates one of whom was going to enforce every single right they could the rest who would just be normal tenancies which would you pick?


    What the law says and what happens in practicality from both owner and renters perspectives are 2 completely different things until they hit tribunal. In reality most of these relationships do not end up in tribunal (which was my point in the first place).


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    #71
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    and do you doubt that happens?

    I'm certain it happens. I'd prefer if it didn't, which is why I'm highlighting it.
    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    If you ere selecting someone to look after the most expensive asset you are ever going to own bar your family home and you had 20 candidates one of whom was going to enforce every single right they could the rest who would just be normal tenancies which would you pick?

    A normal tenancy is one where the tenant's rights are respected in the first place.


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    #72
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    I'm certain it happens. I'd prefer if it didn't, which is why I'm highlighting it.



    A normal tenancy is one where the tenant's rights are respected in the first place.

    A normal tenancy is where both parties right are equally protected. This does not and is not happening in the rental sector hence the mess it is!


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    #73
    voluntary
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭voluntary


    I dealt with good few landlords and have never been asked for a payslip copy! Standard work references for rental purposes do not include your earnings, just company, a start date and your job title.

    First, you don't know this man and you don't know his intentions.

    Second, if you share a copy with him, you should not trust he will store it securely. While sharing sensitive personal details with others you need to be prepared that it will leak sooner or later.

    Third, sharing your pay info outside the family and trusted parities (like banks, solicitors) may be in breach with your employment contract.


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    #74
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    The Student wrote: »
    A normal tenancy is where both parties right are equally protected. This does not and is not happening in the rental sector hence the mess it is!

    Glad to see you agree that tenants shouldn't have to give unnecessary financial information, and that they shouldn't be penalised if they refuse to do so.


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    #75
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Glad to see you agree that tenants shouldn't have to give unnecessary financial information, and that they shouldn't be penalised if they refuse to do so.

    I did not say that. If I am going to consider entering into a contract with anyone I will undertake due diligence same as a bank would. Does every applicant for a mortgage get one?


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    #76
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    The Student wrote: »
    I did not say that. If I am going to consider entering into a contract with anyone I will undertake due diligence same as a bank would. Does every applicant for a mortgage get one?

    Maybe read the OP again because we're talking about someone having to handover sensitive personal information just to see a place, not someone who is about to sign a lease.

    To use your bank analogy, it would be like having to handover a wage slip just to find out what the interest rates were.


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    #77
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Maybe read the OP again because we're talking about someone having to handover sensitive personal information just to see a place, not someone who is about to sign a lease.

    To use your bank analogy, it would be like having to handover a wage slip just to find out what the interest rates were.

    No its not, its handing over your payslip to see how much of a mortgage a bank will give you based on your income.


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    #78
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    The Student wrote: »
    No its not, its handing over your payslip to see how much of a mortgage a bank will give you based on your income.

    I can do that online without having to handover a wage slip.

    I should also be able to view a property without having to handover a wage slip. Something the regulatory body for data protection also says.


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    #79
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    I can do that online without having to handover a wage slip.

    I should also be able to view a property without having to handover a wage slip. Something the regulatory body for data protection also says.

    You can view a property online as well!


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    #80
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    The Student wrote: »
    You can view a property online as well!

    There are plenty of things you can do online.

    But I think we can all understand why a property viewing is best carried out in person.

    What anyone has yet to say is why things like wage slips are necessary to carry out those viewings. It's probably convenient, but as Graham said earlier, there isn't an it makes things easier for me exemption in data protection laws.


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    #81
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    There are plenty of things you can do online.

    But I think we can all understand why a property viewing is best carried out in person.

    What anyone has yet to say is why things like wage slips are necessary to carry out those viewings. It's probably convenient, but as Graham said earlier, there isn't an it makes things easier for me exemption in data protection laws.

    People wanted the rental sector to be professional. Renting a property is a commercial transaction. All businesses will undertake credit checking any application before engaging in business. In the business world this info is available through the CRO or Dun & Bradstreet. There is no similar tool available for individuals. The ICB does not give a persons income, it only gives details of loans etc and access to this is restricted to financial institutions.


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    #82
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    The Student wrote: »
    People wanted the rental sector to be professional. Renting a property is a commercial transaction. All businesses will undertake credit checking any application before engaging in business. In the business world this info is available through the CRO or Dun & Bradstreet. There is no similar tool available for individuals. The ICB does not give a persons income, it only gives details of loans etc and access to this is restricted to financial institutions.

    That's still not a necessary reason to demand financial and personal information just for a viewing.

    If I walked into Harvey Norman after lockdown with the intention of getting a suite of furniture on credit, I don't have to hand over my payslip so that I can walk around the show room.


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    #83
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    That's still not a necessary reason to demand financial and personal information just for a viewing.

    If I walked into Harvey Norman after lockdown with the intention of getting a suite of furniture on credit, I don't have to hand over my payslip so that I can walk around the show room.

    They might certainly want some evidence you can pay for it if the suite cost €250k though.


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    #84
    10pennymixup
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭10pennymixup


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    That's still not a necessary reason to demand financial and personal information just for a viewing.

    If I walked into Harvey Norman after lockdown with the intention of getting a suite of furniture on credit, I don't have to hand over my payslip so that I can walk around the show room.

    Why are you planning on living in Harvey Normans?

    Stop with the analogies, the don't work. You're right LL's shouldn't look for them prior to a viewing, but they do. Tenants don't have to supply them prior, but they do.

    I can't believe this thread has gone on so long!!!!


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    #85
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    10pennymixup wrote: »
    Why are you planning on living in Harvey Normans?

    Stop with the analogies, the don't work. You're right LL's shouldn't look for them prior to a viewing, but they do. Tenants don't have to supply them prior, but they do.

    I can't believe this thread has gone on so long!!!!

    Exactly .


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    #86
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Dav010 wrote: »
    They might certainly want some evidence you can pay for it if the suite cost €250k though.

    They'll almost certainly want to see something even if it costed just a tenth of that.

    But the point, which I thought was abundantly clear in my post, is that people don't have to share personal and financial information just to attend a viewing. And that's true of furniture shops and property rentals.


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    #87
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    They'll almost certainly want to see something even if it costed just a tenth of that.

    But the point, which I thought was abundantly clear in my post, is that people don't have to share personal and financial information just to attend a viewing. And that's true of furniture shops and property rentals.

    What’s equally clear is that neither the landlord, nor the shop, is obligated to rent/sell to you if you don’t meet their terms.


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    #88
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Dav010 wrote: »
    What’s equally clear is that neither the landlord, nor the shop, is obligated to rent/sell to you if you don’t meet their terms.

    As long as those terms are reasonable and necessary, sure.

    EDIT: Reasonable, necessary, and legal. Just in case it needs to be said.


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    #89
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭The Student


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    As long as those terms are reasonable and necessary, sure.

    EDIT: Reasonable, necessary, and legal. Just in case it needs to be said.

    For the love of God close this thread.


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    #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Under data protection laws, businesses can't collect excessive amounts of information. Asking for personal financial information just for the purposes of arranging a viewing of a property, is excessive.

    The Data Protection Commissioner's guidance might be of interest to you - https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-07/190710%20Requesting%20Personal%20Data%20from%20Prospective%20Tenants.pdf.



    They do, but then they are risking the chance of not getting a viewing. And at least one landlord here has said they wouldn't chose a tenant who would "stand out and cause hassle", i.e. refusing to provide unnecessary information.

    And before you say that this is the chance someone takes when they refuse to provide the information, I suggest you first read the section on consent in the DPC's guidance.

    Indeed but asking to view is not the same as retaining information. Nor is a landlord a business necessarily.

    I would also suggest that a pay slip is merely proof of income.


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    #91
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Indeed but asking to view is not the same as retaining information. Nor is a landlord a business necessarily.

    I would also suggest that a pay slip is merely proof of income.

    Whether you believe landlords are businesses or not, they are subject to data protection laws. And the laws aren't just about data retention, they also cover the use of the data. Saying they're not keeping the information doesn't mean it's okay for them to seek it in the first place.

    There's no valid reason under data protection laws as to why a payslip is necessary to let people attend a viewing. And that's not only my view, it's the view of the body charged with upholding data protection laws. And no one who disagrees with this view has been able to provide a valid reason.


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