Prospective Landlord Requesting Payslip

Bubbaclaus

Can someone explain the hang up over payslips? Why so secretive?

Pawwed Rig

NuMarvel wrote: »

A normal tenancy is one where the tenant's rights are respected in the first place.

Again this is the difference between legal and practical.
Legally speaking a LL can evict a non paying tenant quickly. Practically this is not the case as when the tenant doesn't follow the law there are no repercussions however when the LL doesn't follow the law there a severe repercussions.

I didn't say tenants rights would not be respected. What I said was a tenancy can become a nightmare when every little perceived right is attempted to be enforced. I once saw a thread on boards, for example, where someone wanted their LL to call around and rehang a curtain. I once had a tenant complain to me that their internet connection was too slow (their own contract). Equally tenants so not want the LL maximising the amount of periodic inspections or hanging around doing 'maintenance'.
Meanwhile in normal land most people get along fine.

voluntary

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Can someone explain the hang up over payslips? Why so secretive?

Post scan of your payslips here and I'll then try to explain.

Dav010

voluntary wrote: »

Post scan of your payslips here and I'll then try to explain.

I will if you are advertising a house to rent that I want.

voluntary

Dav010 wrote: »

I will if you are advertising a house to rent that I want.

Many people would. Many get scammed every day. This doesn't mean anyone should do so or that it's safe to do so.

Besides, post your payslips first and then we talk. Otherwise these are just empty words.

Bubbaclaus

voluntary wrote: »

Many people would. Many get scammed every day. This doesn't mean anyone should do so or that it's safe to do so.

Besides, post your payslips first and then we talk. Otherwise these are just empty words.

What could a scammer do with a payslip?

Bubbaclaus

voluntary wrote: »

Post scan of your payslips here and I'll then try to explain.

Why do you need a copy of my payslip to explain your thinking process. Seems a bit of a logic fail there? Theres nothing on my payslip that will help you explain your thoughts.

Dav010

voluntary wrote: »

Many people would. Many get scammed every day. This doesn't mean anyone should do so or that it's safe to do so.

Besides, post your payslips first and then we talk. Otherwise these are just empty words.

There is nothing I want from you, so no reason to send anything at all to you.

voluntary

To put money where your mounth is. Why not post your payslip here? "Why so secretive?"

Bubbaclaus

voluntary wrote: »

To put money where your mounth is. Why not post your payslip here? "Why so secretive?"

Well my concern is that I am missing something obvious, given your great concern, so would like to know what I'm missing beforehand. Please explain?

B.A._Baracus

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

What could a scammer do with a payslip?

PPS is on pay slips.

For future advice if anyone is asked to give a payslip well... I know this might sound as overkill but got photoshop? if you don't you could use www.photopea.com a free clone of PS. But that means uploading an image to a server (bad idea)

But all you do is scan or take a picture and open it up with ideally Photoshop. Black out your PPS and while you are at it replace how much you earn

A simple 5 minute tutorial on youtube can explain how. It's easy tho.
I know it sounds much but if it is a thing you are gonna get asked, and it's a thing you don't want to openly share, why give the real one.

Even with regards to references you can give any ol' one.
Just open up MS Word (or open office - free clone) and type some garbage out. Grab some random address off Google Maps (so if a LL checks Google Maps he can see it exists himself) and give your friends mobile number and a fake email. Bobs your uncle.


Man I should write a book lol.

Dav010

voluntary wrote: »

To put money where your mounth is. Why not post your payslip here? "Why so secretive?"

Why would you want my payslip? I can see why a LL might have reason to look at it, what is yours?

voluntary

I don't need your payslip man, but you're apparently not that comfortable sharing it as you originally appeared to be. Why would you not share your payslip on boards?

NuMarvel

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Can someone explain the hang up over payslips? Why so secretive?

The question isn't why won't you show it, it's why is it necessary to be able to view a property.

And that's the question no one has been able to answer.

Maybe we'd get one if we insisted on seeing payslips first

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Again this is the difference between legal and practical.
Legally speaking a LL can evict a non paying tenant quickly. Practically this is not the case as when the tenant doesn't follow the law there are no repercussions however when the LL doesn't follow the law there a severe repercussions.

I didn't say tenants rights would not be respected. What I said was a tenancy can become a nightmare when every little perceived right is attempted to be enforced. I once saw a thread on boards, for example, where someone wanted their LL to call around and rehang a curtain. I once had a tenant complain to me that their internet connection was too slow (their own contract). Equally tenants so not want the LL maximising the amount of periodic inspections or hanging around doing 'maintenance'.
Meanwhile in normal land most people get along fine.

That's not the difference between legal and practical, it's the difference between real and imaginary. Data protection and privacy are real rights. Your landlord sorting out your own broadband speeds isn't.

Saying you/your agent wouldn't chose someone who would make vexatious or frivolous demands is a far cry from saying you/your agent wouldn't chose someone who wants to make sure their privacy is respected. I can understand the former. It's the latter which would concern me, and is relevant to what we're discussing.

So let's get a clear answer to this; if you insisted on seeing payslips before letting someone view a place, would you hold it against them if they raised an issue with your demand?

Pawwed Rig

NuMarvel wrote: »

So let's get a clear answer to this; if you insisted on seeing payslips before letting someone view a place, would you hold it against them if they raised an issue with your demand?

I have never asked for payslips, as again that is the agents territory, but in a general sense if there were 20 potential tenants and 1 refused to provide some information I had requested to perform a due diligence then they would not be considered.

Dav010

voluntary wrote: »

I don't need your payslip man, but you're apparently not that comfortable sharing it as you originally appeared to be. Why would you not share your payslip on boards?

Because it is an anonymous/avatar using website, are you not aware of this?

NuMarvel

NuMarvel wrote: »

Whether you believe landlords are businesses or not, they are subject to data protection laws. And the laws aren't just about data retention, they also cover the use of the data. Saying they're not keeping the information doesn't mean it's okay for them to seek it in the first place.

There's no valid reason under data protection laws as to why a payslip is necessary to let people attend a viewing. And that's not only my view, it's the view of the body charged with upholding data protection laws. And no one who disagrees with this view has been able to provide a valid reason.

Individuals are subject to data protection laws to a lesser degree than a company. You can't ignore that fact.

Looking at and retaining data are two different things, you cannot ignore that fact.

I said why it was a valid request, proof of an income. The data protection commissioner did not say that you cannot ask for proof of income nor does any of the acts. You think it's unreasonable, I don't.

By the way, the data protection commissioner herself has absolutely no legal background or training. Only 2 of the 7 deputy commissioners have. I believe her background is in i.t originally

NuMarvel

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Individuals are subject to data protection laws to a lesser degree than a company. You can't ignore that fact.

Landlords are subject to the same data protection laws as companies. There is no sole trader exemption.

Perhaps you're getting confused with information being collected in a personal capacity eg giving your email address to friends and family. In that instance, individuals are subject to a lesser degree (if at all). But that's not in anyway analogous to what we're talking about here.

If you're certain that what you say is a fact, you're welcome to cite your sources that confirm this.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Looking at and retaining data are two different things, you cannot ignore that fact.

I already addressed this. Data protection laws aren't only concerned with keeping data but also using it.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I said why it was a valid request, proof of an income. The data protection commissioner did not say that you cannot ask for proof of income nor does any of the acts. You think it's unreasonable, I don't.

You didn't say why knowing someone's income was necessary to determine who would get to view your property though. And if you're the one requesting the data, the onus is on you to set out why collecting it from everyone who enquires is a valid reason, in line with the principles in the acts.

What's more the Acts and Regulations don't cite any specific information types. Nor does the DPC's guidance, except for the case study at the end. That's because the Act and guidance applies to ALL personal information types.

That said, it's beyond me how someone would read the case study and think the principles wouldn't apply to other types of personal information like wage slips.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

By the way, the data protection commissioner herself has absolutely no legal background or training. Only 2 of the 7 deputy commissioners have. I believe her background is in i.t originally

This is the official guidance of the organisation, not someone's personal opinion. The qualifications or personal background of the head of the DPC are irrelevant.

NuMarvel

NuMarvel wrote: »

Landlords are subject to the same data protection laws as companies. There is no sole trader exemption.

Perhaps you're getting confused with information being collected in a personal capacity eg giving your email address to friends and family. In that instance, individuals are subject to a lesser degree (if at all). But that's not in anyway analogous to what we're talking about here.

If you're certain that what you say is a fact, you're welcome to cite your sources that confirm this.



I already addressed this. Data protection laws aren't only concerned with keeping data but also using it.



You didn't say why knowing someone's income was necessary to determine who would get to view your property though. And if you're the one requesting the data, the onus is on you to set out why collecting it from everyone who enquires is a valid reason, in line with the principles in the acts.

What's more the Acts and Regulations don't cite any specific information types. Nor does the DPC's guidance, except for the case study at the end. That's because the Act and guidance applies to ALL personal information types.

That said, it's beyond me how someone would read the case study and think the principles wouldn't apply to other types of personal information like wage slips.



This is the official guidance of the organisation, not someone's personal opinion. The qualifications or personal background of the head of the DPC are irrelevant.

I'm not confused. A landlord is not a commercial entity. You made the claim about companies, I merely pointed out that they aren't the same. I rented a house and paid tax. I made a personal tax return. That my point.

You want me to cite a source to prove a negative? Sorry, you are the one making the claim, you quote the law that says you can't all for a payslip.

Not sure how many times it needs saying, pay slip to prove income. Shall I say it again? Do I need someone else to repeat it?

Banks also ask for recent payslips to prove you can repay a loan and a mortgage. Are all the mortgage lenders breaching the law?

And yes, you are correct and I'm glad you agree. The act does not specify what can and cannot be requested. That's the point. It's based on the circumstances and what is reasonable. Again, I think a payslip is reasonable, you don't. That's that really but banks appear to be allowed ask in mortgage application before a house has even been looked at.

Of course the qualifications of an individual leading an organization matter. I'm not even going to address that. Look at Trump ffs!

Graham

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Dav010

NuMarvel wrote: »

Landlords are subject to the same data protection laws as companies. There is no sole trader exemption.

Perhaps you're getting confused with information being collected in a personal capacity eg giving your email address to friends and family. In that instance, individuals are subject to a lesser degree (if at all). But that's not in anyway analogous to what we're talking about here.

If you're certain that what you say is a fact, you're welcome to cite your sources that confirm this.



I already addressed this. Data protection laws aren't only concerned with keeping data but also using it.



You didn't say why knowing someone's income was necessary to determine who would get to view your property though. And if you're the one requesting the data, the onus is on you to set out why collecting it from everyone who enquires is a valid reason, in line with the principles in the acts.

What's more the Acts and Regulations don't cite any specific information types. Nor does the DPC's guidance, except for the case study at the end. That's because the Act and guidance applies to ALL personal information types.

That said, it's beyond me how someone would read the case study and think the principles wouldn't apply to other types of personal information like wage slips.



This is the official guidance of the organisation, not someone's personal opinion. The qualifications or personal background of the head of the DPC are irrelevant.

I wouldn’t argue with you about the legality of the request, but the reality is that the owner has no obligation to rent to anyone. So if you don’t want to provide it, that is your right, but someone else will. That is the unarguable reality of the situation the op finds themselves in.

NuMarvel

Dav010 wrote: »

I wouldn’t argue with you about the legality of the request, but the reality is that the owner has no obligation to rent to anyone. So if you don’t want to provide it, that is your right, but someone else will. That is the unarguable reality of the situation the op finds themselves in.

We know that's what's happening. My point is that it shouldn't be happening, and this is an important point to make given the number of posters who don't agree with us about the legality of the request.

Dav010

NuMarvel wrote: »

We know that's what's happening. My point is that it shouldn't be happening, and this is an important point to make given the number of posters who don't agree with us about the legality of the request.

Get a grip. The op isn’t being forced to handover payslips, if he/she doesn’t want to, so be it. But someone else will get that property.

NuMarvel

Dav010 wrote: »

Get a grip. The op isn’t being forced to handover payslips, if he/she doesn’t want to, so be it. But someone else will get that property.

I suggest you read the section in the DPC guidance on consent. Because if someone needs to handover an unnecessary amount of personal information just to even go to a viewing, then yes, they are being forced. That's the reality of the rental market as it is.

Dav010

NuMarvel wrote: »

I suggest you read the section in the DPC guidance on consent. Because if someone needs to handover an unnecessary amount of personal information just to even go to a viewing, then yes, they are being forced. That's the reality of the rental market as it is.

There are loads of properties to rent, move on.

Bubbaclaus

NuMarvel wrote: »

I suggest you read the section in the DPC guidance on consent. Because if someone needs to handover an unnecessary amount of personal information just to even go to a viewing, then yes, they are being forced. That's the reality of the rental market as it is.

Define unnecessary? I would regard proof of income as being very necessary.

NuMarvel

NuMarvel wrote: »

I suggest you read the section in the DPC guidance on consent. Because if someone needs to handover an unnecessary amount of personal information just to even go to a viewing, then yes, they are being forced. That's the reality of the rental market as it is.

I'm still waiting on your opinion about mortgage applications.

NuMarvel

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Define unnecessary? I would regard proof of income as being very necessary.

You're not alone in regarding it as necessary.

What no one has been able to explain is *why* is it necessary for the purposes of arranging viewings. Why does a LL or agent need to see proof of income from everyone who walks through the door, and not just the person who will be offered the lease?

NuMarvel

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I'm still waiting on your opinion about mortgage applications.

I covered this with another poster yesterday. In short, arranging a property viewing isn't the same as applying for a mortgage. Feel free to read back through the thread if you want to see my comments in detail.

Dav010

NuMarvel wrote: »

You're not alone in regarding it as necessary.

What no one has been able to explain is *why* is it necessary for the purposes of arranging viewings. Why does a LL or agent need to see proof of income from everyone who walks through the door, and not just the person who will be offered the lease?

Process of elimination presumably. Many won’t agree to provide the info, some will have high incomes or HAP plus income to pay their portion, they will be considered more favourably than those who earn just enough to afford the rent.