180deg turn in sewer with run of just 2.5m.

mayoman1973

Built new house 5 years ago and one of the sewers has been blocking constantly due to one or all of three things. 1. The fall is about 10mm which is a bit on the steep side given 1 in 40 is the ideal fall. 2. Making 180 deg turn in too short a run, ie 2.5m. 3. The side channel feeds into main channel with one of them manholes which has a 30mm drop into the main channel and this is where the blockage always starts. ( Why oh why is that drop in the manhole for, why not just meet the main channel level? )

Anyways it is what it is. New sewer route is not an option. Only option is fix whats there or take the toilet out of comission.

So I have been thinking could I create a small sort of mini tank that this toilet feeds directly into and then install one of them sewage pumps to push it onto the main sewer. That means no turn iin sewer. The pump can send it where ever it needs to be sent in what ever direction I have been told.
Has anyone done anything like this before?

Victor

Could you do a sketch of the layout?

What distance is the 10mm(?) fall over?

mayoman1973

Its a 2.5 m run. Not much to sketch. Sewer does a 180deg, 10mm fall, over a 2.5m run between point where it exits house to where it joins main sewer in a regular manhole.

fred funk }{

Do you mean a 90 degree turn? Having problems visualising 180.

The Bishop Basher

mayoman1973 wrote: »

So I have been thinking could I create a small sort of mini tank that this toilet feeds directly into and then install one of them sewage pumps to push it onto the main sewer. That means no turn iin sewer. The pump can send it where ever it needs to be sent in what ever direction I have been told.
Has anyone done anything like this before?

We put an identical system on when we built about 12 years ago. We got prices for tanks at the time but they were off the wall so we buried a blue plastic drum in concrete and had a tank for a fraction of the cost.

It pumps about 15m up to an AJ and it works well. The pump can fail from time to time but it’s not a big job to clear it or replace. Unpleasant maybe but easy enough.

kieran.

10mm fall over 2.5m is 1 in 250 I'm guessing it's a 100mm pipe this simply won't work. Can you raise the pipe at the WC. Ideally I would be looking at 75mm of even continuous fall. Can you send a picture of the connection manhole we're the issue is. Is the connection at 90 degrees or less to the main flow?

Bass Reeves

180 degrees is a straight through

Victor

Bass Reeves wrote: »

180 degrees is a straight through

Straight through is 0 degrees.

A slight bend might be 10-30 degrees.

A pronounced bend might be 30-60 degrees.

A right angle is 90 degrees.

180 degrees is coming back on itself.

Bass Reeves

Victor wrote: »

Straight through is 0 degrees.

A slight bend might be 10-30 degrees.

A pronounced bend might be 30-60 degrees.

A right angle is 90 degrees.

180 degrees is coming back on itself.

Incorrect 360 degrees to come back on itself. 180 degrees is straight through

Guy:Incognito

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Incorrect 360 degrees to come back on itself. 180 degrees is straight through

Stand up.

Face the wall.

Turn all the way around till you face the wall again.

You've just turned 360 degrees.

The Bishop Basher

360 degrees would mean a full twist and keep going in the same direction..

Bass Reeves

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Stand up.

Face the wall.

Turn all the way around till you face the wall again.

You've just turned 360 degrees.

Is that not what I posted

Guy:Incognito

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Is that not what I posted

No , 360 degrees would be 4 elbows (90 degrees each) , itd come full circle and youd end up going the same direction you already were.



180 degrees would be 2 elbows and you end up facing back the way you just came.

This thread is brilliant haha

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No , 360 degrees would be 4 elbows (90 degrees each) , itd come full circle and youd end up going the same direction you already were.

Exactly. A 360 pipe looks like this:











I have to admit it would be comical watching one being installed.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly. A 360 pipe looks like this:











I have to admit it would be comical watching one being installed.

All waste stacks should come down buildings like that imo

Bass Reeves

Degree have nothing to do with right angle bends. If you are putting something straight through its 180 degrees you use a straight through socket. If you turn it 90 or 270 degrees it's a right angle bend you use. If you are coming back on yourself it 360 degrees seldom done in reality.

In plumbing two 45 degree bends do not make 90 degrees. It's not a matter of adding angles or degrees

twowheelsonly

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Do you mean a 90 degree turn? Having problems visualising 180.

Same as that - and trying to figure out why you'd need to do a 180 degree turn over 2.5m. Sounds very strange.

twowheelsonly

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Degree have nothing to do with tight angle bends. If you are putting something straight through its 180 degrees you use a straight through socket. If you turn it 90 or 270 degrees it's a bend you use. If you are coming back on yourself it 360 degrees seldom done in reality.

In plumbing two 45 degree bends do not make 90 degrees. It's not a matter of adding angles or degrees

Yes, but you're talking about the flow continuing in the same direction as it started but with 360 degrees of bends thrown in.
From the OPs' description it sounds like the flow is coming back against itself albeit in a parallel pipe i.e. doing a U Turn.

sydthebeat

I'm also having difficulty picturing what the OP is talking about...

Are you saying you have two 90 degrees turn at the end of a 2.5m run, and there's a 10mm fall along that run??

TheChizler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Degree have nothing to do with right angle bends. If you are putting something straight through its 180 degrees you use a straight through socket. If you turn it 90 or 270 degrees it's a right angle bend you use. If you are coming back on yourself it 360 degrees seldom done in reality.

In plumbing two 45 degree bends do not make 90 degrees. It's not a matter of adding angles or degrees

Google 180 degree pipe.

Bass Reeves

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Yes, but you're talking about the flow continuing in the same direction as it started but with 360 degrees of bends thrown in.
From the OPs' description it sounds like the flow is coming back against itself albeit in a parallel pipe i.e. doing a U Turn.

The OP had his angle incorrect I imagine. Two 90 degree bends could take you straight on they could turn you up into the air or down into the ground.

garv123

Someone's gonna have to do a 180 with their answers..

mayoman1973

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Do you mean a 90 degree turn? Having problems visualising 180.

The sewer pipe exits the house on north side, the main sewer runs south right along the side of house. The exit point from the house is about 2.2m from the main sewer so it currently is a U shape run, with radius of about 1.3m,
The feed into main sewer is a 45deg so the rest of the 180 turn ( 135deg ) is made up of 3 x wide 45deg turns.

kirving

In terms of calculating pressure loss for a piping system, the following scenarios are all equivalent:

1. Left turn, 2m run, right turn
2. Left turn, right turn (to kink the pipe)
3. Left turn, left turn (180°)

In this case, flow would be analogous to pressure loss as described above.

As I see it, the shallow fall along the 2.5m might just about work for a straight only.

However, the addition of the two 90° fittings cause the fluid to slow down and get clogged up.

The design is limited, so not much you can't really do outside a sewage pump I don't think.

One thing to try, as I have a similar problem at home, and cleaned it last week. Lovely job....

OP, can you flush the toilet a few times a day with no paper in it. Keep that up for a few weeks. If the extra flow of clear water daily appears to sold the problem, you could install an automated flusher.

I'm sure there are many on the market, but a quick Google gave me this retro fit unit for normal toilets that will flush once every 24 hours.

https://www.centralrestaurant.com/Rubbermaid-FG750831-Tc-Autoflush-c115p96487.html

Also, use cheap toilet paper. Andrex is not your friend here.

Bass Reeves

mayoman1973 wrote: »

The sewer pipe exits the house on north side, the main sewer runs south right along the side of house. The exit point from the house is about 2.2m from the main sewer so it currently is a U shape run, with radius of about 1.3m,

I presume that it is a 9O degree turn, a straight section a 90 degree turn into main sewer. Did they put in AJ's at the bends or just put 90 degree bends on the pipe

The Bishop Basher

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Also, use cheap toilet paper. Andrex is not your friend here.

Same if you go with the pump..

mayoman1973

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I presume that it is a 9O degree turn, a straight section a 90 degree turn into main sewer. Did they put in AJ's at the bends or just put 90 degree bends on the pipe

No. It is 3 wide bend 45degs meeting the main channel at 45deg.
I used the best flusher of the lot. I'm steering storm water from roof into sewer and it keeps it clear but has the obvious problem of filling the septic tank too quickly.

Wildly Boaring

10mm in 2500mm is 0.4%
1 in 40 is 2.5%

Your pipe has too little fall for a straight pile never mind one with 3 or 4 long 45s on it.

The fall in the AJ from channel to main channel is not an issue. This is just where the energy is getting the solids to.

Can you relay with enough fall?
Can you relay with less bends?

The pump will work but for my own house I'd be investing in a sewerage pump that can deal with the solids. Or a mascerator, but even industrial ones are forever breaking down.

mickdw

Can you not use a wavin AJ where this toilet line meets your sewer. This AJ would not have the 30 mm step so if i understand you correctly, this would allow more fall in the 2.5m section.
Also i dont know why you are using the slow sweeping curved sections.
AJ outside house at path turning 90 deg to wards main line then AJ on main line to take the feed from this toilet.
The AJ will take the pipe arriving at 90 deg to main run and has a built in swept angle to allow correct flow at the junction.

Im assuming it all 4 inch pipe?

sydthebeat

mayoman1973 wrote: »

No. It is 3 wide bend 45degs meeting the main channel at 45deg.
I used the best flusher of the lot. I'm steering storm water from roof into sewer and it keeps it clear but has the obvious problem of filling the septic tank too quickly.

I hope that storm water steer is a VERY temporary measure, as you are destroying your effluent treatment by doing that.