School not using Video Conferencing but lashing out the homework

gnf_ireland

khalessi wrote: »

I have worked in a variety of professions before becoming a teacher and been called a liar on Boards because I have a varied life experience. I dont lie about what i have done, I have no need to. Every profession has good and bad, good nurses bad nurses, bank officials, office workers etc

Every school is different working at different speeds and parents are coping as best they can so all we can be is respectful to each other, as we are examples to our kids and they learn from us.

Be kind to ourselves and each other

Absolutely there are good and bad in every profession. I don’t think anyone has ever said any different here. Problem is any hint that a teacher may not be making a reasonable effort is immediately a teacher bashing thread. It’s like they are infallible and what they say is absolute.

Some teachers need to grow up and realise that not everyone can be spoken to like a child. Parents are adults too - equally as intelligent as they are.

Some parents need to grow up and realise that they cannot ring teachers and abuse them for giving too much homework or complain that those trying their best are not doing enough.

Some principals need to grow up and realise that parents have concerns and if the best their school has to offer is an email once a week, and zero contact after that - it’s really poor to say that constitutes a reasonable weeks work in their eyes and need to talk to their staff members.

But fundamentally it makes no difference if children engage or not - that’s up to the parent and child. Teachers need to be available if the child wishes to engage with them. The child is not paid to go to school - the teacher is paid for their time to support the pupils education.

And as for teachers working 12 plus hours a day. Forget it - no one is asking for it or is looking for it. This is not the front line medical emergency team. Do your required hours and no more ... you are only impacting your own health and family wellbeing by doing it.

And yes, we all need to be civil to each other - even if we have different opinions on things !!

Smacruairi

Also while I'm posting for the first time in ages, I actually have a personal aversion to the whole image of the teacher "going above and beyond and leaving Easter eggs for ppl etc." we are professionals, we should act professionally and respond professionally when circumstances are not right, that's the way society has gone it seems.

I find that those who do the whole heroic teacher thing can only do it for a short amount of time and then they're burned out and you are left with someone feeling resentful when they don't get thanked a million times a week. Just do your job, do it well in line with what everyone else is doing and to the required standards and rail against those above when they don't support efforts to improve.

gnf_ireland

Smacruairi wrote: »

Gnf, I've been tempted to reply to you several times with some of your remarks, but obviously didn't, but your final post there I 100% agree with in terms of the DES focusing on getting next year in line. I work in a school with 68 members of staff of varying ability, trying to get any sense of consistency or agreement about the best way to do things has been a nightmare, and it's completely down to the DES and their complete abdication of responsibility. They dip in and dip out when it suits and we as a profession are left to pick up the very very sloppy pieces.

I agree with you, some staff members are brutal, some are excellent, most are fine. That's the same for most companies I'd wager if my friends WhatsApp frequency are anything to go by! What I would love is if the DES said "do what you can, we will support you, but we have a solid plan for next year and we want to iron out the difficulties over the summer",leave it with us and your representatives. But they have not come close to doing that, in fact seem to be going out of their way to not do that (see the school already abandoning the jc plan).

It doesn't help that for years teachers had flagged this and requested such systems to be set up and for us to start training in them. Instead we got weeks of "wellbeing training" or local policy writing hours, and so when the a hit the fan there was an element of "we told you so!". Not the ethical thing obviously but I think it'll be the same if we return for the floated "one day a week", and then kids get infected when no actual deep cleaning takes place.

This is a pandemic, we all realise that, and some are trying hard, some are hardly trying, but when we have senior doctors resigning from medical council over proceedings, and teachers en masse raging against the govt lack of planning, please think that maybe the ire should be placed at the DES and not the local school. If absolutely every tesco employee you met was brutal, you would take it up with the brand, not the manager working the night shift?

Hopefully that influences your opinion slightly, because I see you trying to see both sides,but you seem very coloured against one side and maybe that (justifiable in your anecdote!) ire is misplaced?

Thanks for the note and I do see both sides. I am not actually anti teacher at all. Far from it. I would have nothing but good things to say about the teachers in my kids school before this happened. It’s just I find it difficult that teachers can effectively go missing with no accountability whatsoever. I genuinely applaud any teacher trying their best given the circumstance

And yes, the Dept has a lot to answer for. Actually the system has due to the role of the church in running schools but I don’t think I could handle a discussion on that one.

Schools are given autonomy by the Dept and principals are responsible for the schools along with the board of management. Fantastic - Dept washes its hands of the day to day and schools get the autonomy they desire. Send in a few inspectors every so often and sure isn’t it grand. Happy days

Then something like this happens and the whole thing falls apart. Everyone looking at each other and no idea how to solve it. But mostly no leadership from any side. Unions gone AWOL - usual noise raising problems and issues. Dept completely missing in action and principals - I assume they have some sort of representation but never heard of it so not sure they know themselves. Someone has to step up - and the only ones capable of doing anything are the schools themselves. And we can all see how that’s going so far

This is an opportunity to change the system. Take back ownership and management of the schools and ensure a proper plan can be universally applied come September. Will it happen - not a chance

Why am I frustrated - because I know deep down, come September we will be having the same discussions and parents will be left trying to juggle impossible workloads suffering burnout while employers start to tire of being over flexible and asking parents to take parental leave (assuming they still have a job) - while the schools response is we don’t have any policies to support this ...

Maybe I will be wrong - but I doubt it ...

Am I anti teacher - absolutely not. Am I against being told a teacher sending 1 email a week is going her best - absolutely !!

gnf_ireland

Smacruairi wrote: »

Also while I'm posting for the first time in ages, I actually have a personal aversion to the whole image of the teacher "going above and beyond and leaving Easter eggs for ppl etc." we are professionals, we should act professionally and respond professionally when circumstances are not right, that's the way society has gone it seems.

I find that those who do the whole heroic teacher thing can only do it for a short amount of time and then they're burned out and you are left with someone feeling resentful when they don't get thanked a million times a week. Just do your job, do it well in line with what everyone else is doing and to the required standards and rail against those above when they don't support efforts to improve.

Absolutely. No child needs any more Easter eggs.

And leave the current martyrdom efforts to the medical staff. Teachers extra efforts are needed when the kids go back to school

Smacruairi

Yeah, I agree to all of the above, don't really need to add anything. You have very well defined the system as is. The source of your ire is the inertia, and I completely agree, but again (without saying this is correct BTW) this is completely down to a des that both enables and cripples when it wants. It has institutionalised the profession and removed forward thinking.

The whole class system is a relic of the industrial age - bells, kids by classes etc. You have a chance here to shake it up totally (doesnt matter what year you are in, if you want to look at ww2, off you go to teacher x here for example), but again this is a system that says we all must have the same paperwork, the same hardcopy folders etc, so it doesn't reward that brand of thinking. I empathise with parents and students I do, and my students get my issues too as they are very cognisant of the way things work, so that is why i would love if the DES got more of a rap, but I appreciate that all politics is local. Thanks for the debate anyway, you've given me good points for the future.

khalessi

As you say gnf, none of us want to hear a week before school, there is no plan. I hope there is a plan.

In Denmark, classes have been split in to small groups, by the looks of the lovely photos all over the papers earlier in the week, of no more than 8 children in a class, buildings such as museums leased temporarily as teaching hubs similar to how hotels have been leased as drop down hospitals here, 6 square metres allocated for each child, desks spread out in classroom for social distancing, 2 hourly handwashing etc. They have I am betting done more then will be done here.

I will be surprised but delighted if Dept of Education step up to the mark properly and safely by leasing buildings so that classes can be split appropriately into groups of no more then 8 with a teacher and SNA where necessary, providing a budget so that proper deep cleaning can be carried out daily, or between groups if half daily lessons, 2 hourly handwashing like Denmark, supplying appropriate ppe, ensuring children stay in small groups, ensuring the health and safety of students staff and parents in the school environment.

I was impressed to see how quickly places like shops dealt with health and safety by providing spit screeens, masks, gloves for their staff. I obviously dont expect spit screens, but I doubt the Dept will go to such lengths.

I have seen what I was told was a deep clean in my school and it was a farce. I have 20 plus years as a nurse and know what is required and what I saw was not even close. It doesnt have to be medical grade but it does have to be cleaned better then usual.

Though if we are reopening in next few weeks as rumours go, I expect they will reopen the doors, with a half assed plan and going by previous experiene of the Dept teachers will be expected to sort it out and get on with it, and the safety of students especially those with conditions that prior to Covid19 were highlighted but not a concern but that now could be a major concern will not be dealt with properly. Very little of the Denmark strategies will be implemented.

I will be delighted if I am wrong reopening in the next few weeks, does not give them much time to plan properly, or me much hope of it being done correctly. Maybe due to my background my expectations are higher then most re H&S and cross infection control but if Denmark can do it for their schools we should at least be doing the same.

And regarding the current martydom by the medical staff, according to my ex colleagues its grand but they dont need it they are just doing a job and just want the appropriate ppe to do it safely. If that applies to nurses or cashiers or any other occupation, it should apply to an equal level in education to keep students, staff and parent safe in these covid times.

heldel00

Smacruairi wrote: »

Also while I'm posting for the first time in ages, I actually have a personal aversion to the whole image of the teacher "going above and beyond and leaving Easter eggs for ppl etc." we are professionals, we should act professionally and respond professionally when circumstances are not right, that's the way society has gone it seems.

I find that those who do the whole heroic teacher thing can only do it for a short amount of time and then they're burned out and you are left with someone feeling resentful when they don't get thanked a million times a week. Just do your job, do it well in line with what everyone else is doing and to the required standards and rail against those above when they don't support efforts to improve.

I wish I could shake hands with you for this post. In fairness it is usually young teachers who think nonsensical acts like this will help them keep their job the next year.
I send very carefully thought out work on a Monday. I don't just lash home any aul bull because I have to be able to stand over it. Children are expected to do work independently and it is revision in maths. They will pick up where we left off whenever we get back.
I am contactable via email every day during school hours. I've had very few emails so either people are just not engaging or are happy enough with what has been sent home.
I am not available for "chats". I don't have time in the classroom for this, except before the break time bell and I'd have a queue at this desk looking for a bit of craic. If children/ parents need to contact me about school work or concerns this is no problem. However, a Zoom session just so we can all see each other and a bit of a chinwag is a definite no from me.
Now apart from shunning HSE guidelines and driving around unnecessarily pegging Easter eggs at people's front doors, I don't know what more I can do.

gnf_ireland

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah, I agree to all of the above, don't really need to add anything. You have very well defined the system as is. The source of your ire is the inertia, and I completely agree, but again (without saying this is correct BTW) this is completely down to a des that both enables and cripples when it wants. It has institutionalised the profession and removed forward thinking.

The whole class system is a relic of the industrial age - bells, kids by classes etc. You have a chance here to shake it up totally (doesnt matter what year you are in, if you want to look at ww2, off you go to teacher x here for example), but again this is a system that says we all must have the same paperwork, the same hardcopy folders etc, so it doesn't reward that brand of thinking. I empathise with parents and students I do, and my students get my issues too as they are very cognisant of the way things work, so that is why i would love if the DES got more of a rap, but I appreciate that all politics is local. Thanks for the debate anyway, you've given me good points for the future.

I do agree with what you are saying here, and I would 100% agree that the system is institutionalised at this stage. I am not convinced the teachers are, but the system definitely is. The fact its so 'closed' to the outside world does not help at times like this. Even the police bring in "outside blood" in certain roles to bring in different experiences (even if it is a recent thing)

Regarding all politics being local - yes that is definitely true. But also many people the status quo suited teachers and principals for the last 50 odd years. Keep the department and parents at arms length and we will do our thing with full autonomy. Combined with quite a militant set of unions, the approach very much created the us versus them situation over time. I doubt there is a more militant union out there than the TUI !

But with responsibility comes accountability - and maybe this is where we disagree. I am all for making people personally responsible and stepping up to the mark. I am not a believer in micro-management or the likes. But it does mean that teachers need to step up as well - and for decades there have been very poor teachers doing very little with no repercussions whatsoever. What some experience now is decades of 'self-governance' and lack of accountability, and when the crises happened, the immediate aim is to deflect onto the Department (who are not without blame - agreed). But now is the time for the teachers to pay-back on the autonomy they have been given and lead from the front with some constructive proposals on how to solve this.

I would hate for a school to become a business - that would be the worst outcome of all. I also believe that children's allowance should be cut to 100 euro and the money used to properly fund schools. The current funding rates are not sufficient whatsoever, and think an extra 480 euro a year (40 euro * 12 months) would make a massive difference. But the system would need to transform first before I would consider throwing any more money at it.

Crises either tend to bring the best, or worst, out of people. The question will be as this goes on, especially into September, what side will the teaching profession end up on ?

And despite all of my comments above, I am not anti teacher. I might be anti system, but not anti teacher!

And yes, thanks for the debate in a rational non-personal manner. It gives me hope that change may come at some stage in the future.

gnf_ireland

khalessi wrote: »

As you say gnf, none of us want to hear a week before school, there is no plan. I hope there is a plan.

In Denmark, classes have been split in to small groups, by the looks of the lovely photos all over the papers earlier in the week, of no more than 8 children in a class, buildings such as museums leased temporarily as teaching hubs similar to how hotels have been leased as drop down hospitals here, 6 square metres allocated for each child, desks spread out in classroom for social distancing, 2 hourly handwashing etc. They have I am betting done more then will be done here.

I will be surprised but delighted if Dept of Education step up to the mark properly and safely by leasing buildings so that classes can be split appropriately into groups of no more then 8 with a teacher and SNA where necessary, providing a budget so that proper deep cleaning can be carried out daily, or between groups if half daily lessons, 2 hourly handwashing like Denmark, supplying appropriate ppe, ensuring children stay in small groups, ensuring the health and safety of students staff and parents in the school environment.

I was impressed to see how quickly places like shops dealt with health and safety by providing spit screeens, masks, gloves for their staff. I obviously dont expect spit screens, but I doubt the Dept will go to such lengths.

I have seen what I was told was a deep clean in my school and it was a farce. I have 20 plus years as a nurse and know what is required and what I saw was not even close. It doesnt have to be medical grade but it does have to be cleaned better then usual.

Though if we are reopening in next few weeks as rumours go, I expect they will reopen the doors, with a half assed plan and going by previous experiene of the Dept teachers will be expected to sort it out and get on with it, and the safety of students especially those with conditions that prior to Covid19 were highlighted but not a concern but that now could be a major concern will not be dealt with properly. Very little of the Denmark strategies will be implemented.

I will be delighted if I am wrong reopening in the next few weeks, does not give them much time to plan properly, or me much hope of it being done correctly. Maybe due to my background my expectations are higher then most re H&S and cross infection control but if Denmark can do it for their schools we should at least be doing the same.

And regarding the current martydom by the medical staff, according to my ex colleagues its grand but they dont need it they are just doing a job and just want the appropriate ppe to do it safely. If that applies to nurses or cashiers or any other occupation, it should apply to an equal level in education to keep students, staff and parent safe in these covid times.

I don't think anyone in their right mind expects schools to open with divided classes before the end of June. Its simply not going to happen and there has to be much more important priorities right now. I believe September will be a challenge at this rate, never mind May.

Yes, the Dept has a role to play here, but so too does the unions and teachers, as well as the parents. As I said above, teachers & schools have enjoyed levels of autonomy for decades unheard of anywhere else. I would love to see some leadership on their side, and push the Dept into action. Its very easy criticize any proposals made - much more difficult come up with the proposals.

Can teachers unions not be proactive for once in their lives and draw up a proposal of how children could go back to school in September, and some creative suggestions would be exceptionally welcome? It would (a) force the Dept into action and (b) maybe show that they are trying to assist rather than always say no !

But I absolutely agree with you, if the status quo is maintained and schools wait for the Dept to issue proposals in July/August for September, it will be an unmitigated disaster ... and the blame game starts over again !


Regarding medical staff - like all professions there are some going well above and beyond and some doing their normal efforts. Yes, PPE is essential - I don't think anyone is denying this. But the entire world is looking for it right now in massive quantities and its supply is simply not there. We have ended up over the last three decades that the western world is fully reliant on China for manufacture, and are literally being held to random at this stage. Maybe everyone needs to realise that going for the cheapest option is not the best option longer term.

gnf_ireland

heldel00 wrote: »

I wish I could shake hands with you for this post. In fairness it is usually young teachers who think nonsensical acts like this will help them keep their job the next year.
I send very carefully thought out work on a Monday. I don't just lash home any aul bull because I have to be able to stand over it. Children are expected to do work independently and it is revision in maths. They will pick up where we left off whenever we get back.
I am contactable via email every day during school hours. I've had very few emails so either people are just not engaging or are happy enough with what has been sent home.
I am not available for "chats". I don't have time in the classroom for this, except before the break time bell and I'd have a queue at this desk looking for a bit of craic. If children/ parents need to contact me about school work or concerns this is no problem. However, a Zoom session just so we can all see each other and a bit of a chinwag is a definite no from me.
Now apart from shunning HSE guidelines and driving around unnecessarily pegging Easter eggs at people's front doors, I don't know what more I can do.

Isn't it funny how two people can read the same text and see two different points of view come across in it ! Ah the power of the English language.

Of course we all know written language only accounts for a small percentage of the way we communicate :-)

Sheep breeder

s1ippy wrote: »

I actually had a parent ring me just before the mid term and basically fúck me out of it because apparently the list of (entirely optional) work was too much. I had to just go "OK, OK, yeah, no problem" while she went on a 40 minute tirade about how they only have one computer and her child is under pressure. I emphasised a few times that the work is more to keep the kids busy and that I highlight the things they really should be doing each day and she would start yelling at me again that her child was upset that he wasn't getting it done. She basically bullied me down the phone for three quarters of an hour and demanded that I give less work.

I put out a survey and her opinion was largely not shared by the other parents, who understood that the work was optional and were happy that their child be given it as an option. They also said that they were happy when the way the content was delivered. So now I'm in a position where I have to deliver the whole curriculum but one vindictive parent has a huge issue and might try and f me over if I put a foot out of line somehow. That definitely doesn't instil confidence in me about recording videos or doing a live chat. This morning I'm online like I am every evil morning to deal with anything they need and there are no students here, as has happened almost all times after a break. But I'll stick around to respond to messages until break. Oh and there's the parent mentioned emailing me because the work I posted up isn't what she demanded before the break and she wants to control everything.

People hate teachers, even other teachers as is evidenced by this thread. I don't know if it's because they had bad experiences in school themselves, begrudgery that they can't do it or they can't control situations... I personally feel like I'm walking a knife edge at all times in this job. Being attacked by the public, your management, parents and sometimes even students. I'm just getting on with things as best I can. If gmf Ireland has a problem they can fly up my hole

Important thing to do with that phone call from the parent is record the time and date and number and basic content of the conversation and any follow up you have the details of the abuse. Work in the coal face and have received same and ask them to put it writing soon softened the cough. We ourselves are grateful to the way our teachers are trying their best. What annoying is the poor teacher.

FeirmeoirtTed

gnf_ireland wrote: »

I do not agree with what you are saying at all here, and I would 100% agree that the system is institutionalised at this stage. I am not convinced the teachers are, but the system definitely is. The fact its so 'closed' to the outside world does not help at times like this. Even the police bring in "outside blood" in certain roles to bring in different experiences (even if it is a recent thing)

Regarding all politics being local - yes that is definitely true. But also many people the status quo suited teachers and principals for the last 50 odd years. Keep the department and parents at arms length and we will do our thing with full autonomy. Combined with quite a militant set of unions, the approach very much created the us versus them situation over time. I doubt there is a more militant union out there than the TUI !

But with responsibility comes accountability - and maybe this is where we disagree. I am all for making people personally responsible and stepping up to the mark. I am not a believer in micro-management or the likes. But it does mean that teachers need to step up as well - and for decades there have been very poor teachers doing very little with no repercussions whatsoever. What some experience now is decades of 'self-governance' and lack of accountability, and when the crises happened, the immediate aim is to deflect onto the Department (who are not without blame - agreed). But now is the time for the teachers to pay-back on the autonomy they have been given and lead from the front with some constructive proposals on how to solve this.

I would hate for a school to become a business - that would be the worst outcome of all. I also believe that children's allowance should be cut to 100 euro and the money used to properly fund schools. The current funding rates are not sufficient whatsoever, and think an extra 480 euro a year (40 euro * 12 months) would make a massive difference. But the system would need to transform first before I would consider throwing any more money at it.

Crises either tend to bring the best, or worst, out of people. The question will be as this goes on, especially into September, what side will the teaching profession end up on ?

And despite all of my comments above, I am not anti teacher. I might be anti system, but not anti teacher!

And yes, thanks for the debate in a rational non-personal manner. It gives me hope that change may come at some stage in the future.

I've no idea why teachers are engaging with you or trying to justify what they do to someone who must by now have reiterated that they are not anti teacher in about 20 posts, the mask has slipped on numerous occasions I'm afraid and the crux of it is the pay and holidays like every other anti teacher thread here that's what it all boils down to.
I did not become a teacher because ten years ago I foresaw a global pandemic of biblical proportions arriving and giving me a few handy months off school.
Teachers are not the only ones getting paid for in your eyes" doing very little"
Not every teacher is doing their best we can agree on that but you constantly pouring petrol on the teacher bashing here in the past 2 threads says more about your attitude to teachers than anything else. Email your childs teacher they should be se doing you work for your child. Email the principal if no reply is received. Maybe read to your child take a break from boards or better yet teach your child the curriculum you seem to have an in depth knowledge of all things teaching, I'm sure youd do a far better job than any teacher ever could.

Dr Turk Turkelton

heldel00 wrote: »

I wish I could shake hands with you for this post. In fairness it is usually young teachers who think nonsensical acts like this will help them keep their job the next year.
I send very carefully thought out work on a Monday. I don't just lash home any aul bull because I have to be able to stand over it. Children are expected to do work independently and it is revision in maths. They will pick up where we left off whenever we get back.
I am contactable via email every day during school hours. I've had very few emails so either people are just not engaging or are happy enough with what has been sent home.
I am not available for "chats". I don't have time in the classroom for this, except before the break time bell and I'd have a queue at this desk looking for a bit of craic. If children/ parents need to contact me about school work or concerns this is no problem. However, a Zoom session just so we can all see each other and a bit of a chinwag is a definite no from me.
Now apart from shunning HSE guidelines and driving around unnecessarily pegging Easter eggs at people's front doors, I don't know what more I can do.

Well just a hint on what else you could do apart from the one "carefully thought out" email on a Monday morning and "being available" during class times for the rest of the week.
Perhaps send an email on Wednesday asking how the kids are finding the work and if they are having any trouble with it?
Ask do any kids want extra work. Im sure most won't but if there is one or two it would help keep them encouraged.
Ask the parents in an email if any kid is having trouble with the work and get it sent to you for marking and observations.
On a Friday ask the parents to send you an email if they can giving you a run down of how they thought their kids got on and any work they struggled on which you could address in the following weeks work.
As their teacher the kids will look up to you. It may not seem like much but a quick 10 minute zoom chat once a week will let them know that teacher is still around and thinking about them. It's small things like this that make all the difference.
It's about being proactive now. A lot of parents might not want to contact you first but will engage happily if they know that you are willing to engage with them and show its not just a line in an email. Obviously we are in unprecedented times and it's a learning curve for everyone but it's what it is and we all have to play our part.
Maybe you won't get any engagement or feedback and the status quo will remain the same but at least you will be able to say you made the effort and tried your best.

gnf_ireland

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

I've no idea why teachers are engaging with you or trying to justify what they do to someone who must by now have reiterated that they are not anti teacher in about 20 posts, the mask has slipped on numerous occasions I'm afraid and the crux of it is the pay and holidays like every other anti teacher thread here that's what it all boils down to.
I did not become a teacher because ten years ago I foresaw a global pandemic of biblical proportions arriving and giving me a few handy months off school.
Teachers are not the only ones getting paid for in your eyes" doing very little"
Not every teacher is doing their best we can agree on that but you constantly pouring petrol on the teacher bashing here in the past 2 threads says more about your attitude to teachers than anything else. Email your childs teacher they should be se doing you work for your child. Email the principal if no reply is received. Maybe read to your child take a break from boards or better yet teach your child the curriculum you seem to have an in depth knowledge of all things teaching, I'm sure youd do a far better job than any teacher ever could.

Firstly, I edited the post [at 8:22] to say I did agree with the person. I realised I had made an error in the initial statement and corrected it. [This was a few minutes before your post was sent, just in case you think it was a reaction to it]

I have mentioned pay in one post to date - around where students do not have to engage because they cannot be forced to, but teachers have to be available to engage with students as they are paid to do so. That is the only time I have referenced pay and I am sorry if you feel that pay cannot be mentioned as a reason for engagement. Teaching is not voluntary and is a job the last time I heard. I have never once mentioned holidays.
*correction* I did mention that schools should be shut for the year and lets leave pay out of this

Thank you very much for the suggestions on how I can assist my children's education. You will see most of my posts are late at night or early morning when I children are in bed.

And absolutely not, I would not make a better teacher than most. I can fully accept this.

But what I can say is the world has had to adapt to the situation we find ourselves in - clearly some more than most.

I will leave it at that. Clearly we are worlds apart in our mindset. Good luck with the next 12 plus months during the times that are ahead - it will not be an easy journey for anyone.

[edit] And you will be glad to hear I have taken your advice and will leave the school based threads alone for a while. And in return, maybe you could consider why parents are so 'frustrated' at the education system (rather than teachers personally) and why the teaching profession has allowed it become like that. And its not about pay or holidays (for most) - that is just a handy distraction.

Midlandsmesser

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

I've no idea why teachers are engaging with you or trying to justify what they do to someone who must by now have reiterated that they are not anti teacher in about 20 posts, the mask has slipped on numerous occasions I'm afraid and the crux of it is the pay and holidays like every other anti teacher thread here that's what it all boils down to.
I did not become a teacher because ten years ago I foresaw a global pandemic of biblical proportions arriving and giving me a few handy months off school.
Teachers are not the only ones getting paid for in your eyes" doing very little"
Not every teacher is doing their best we can agree on that but you constantly pouring petrol on the teacher bashing here in the past 2 threads says more about your attitude to teachers than anything else. Email your childs teacher they should be se doing you work for your child. Email the principal if no reply is received. Maybe read to your child take a break from boards or better yet teach your child the curriculum you seem to have an in depth knowledge of all things teaching, I'm sure youd do a far better job than any teacher ever could.

Agreed.

79 posts in the two teaching forums since 3pm Sunday. Giving a compliment accompanied by thinly veiled back handed criticism.

One minute is looking for increased engagement from her child’s teacher, the next claiming schools should be closed until September to “use the time remaining in this academic year to prepare for the next one and write this one off from school work/home work point of view.” Can’t keep up.

Gnf_Ireland: Email the school if there is no engagement from the teacher. If there is no engagement it’s not on. Your energy would be put to better use spending time with your children and helping them in areas you feel they are lacking in.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

cocopops wrote: »

Unfortunately a lot of schools are between a rock and a hard place due to 1) GDPR regulations, 2) lack of a relevant remote learning policy in place and even if one was drawn up, getting it ratified by the Board of Management, 3) possibly not every teacher having good broadband access and 4) not all schools can afford to provide the hardware needed 5) not wanting to put families under pressure when it’s possible they don’t have suitable broadband/devices either

1. Bullshít. GDPR is a shítty excuse for being lazy.
2. Eh, more bullcrap. Crate a bloody policy if you need a policy to pull your head out of your arse.
3. Probably? Ask the teachers maybe?
4. A computer, laptop, most will have. Again, it's a matter of asking.
5. Again, ask. This is a nonsense.

heldel00

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Well just a hint on what else you could do apart from the one "carefully thought out" email on a Monday morning and "being available" during class times for the rest of the week.
Perhaps send an email on Wednesday asking how the kids are finding the work and if they are having any trouble with it?
Ask do any kids want extra work. Im sure most won't but if there is one or two it would help keep them encouraged.
Ask the parents in an email if any kid is having trouble with the work and get it sent to you for marking and observations.
On a Friday ask the parents to send you an email if they can giving you a run down of how they thought their kids got on and any work they struggled on which you could address in the following weeks work.
As their teacher the kids will look up to you. It may not seem like much but a quick 10 minute zoom chat once a week will let them know that teacher is still around and thinking about them. It's small things like this that make all the difference.
It's about being proactive now. A lot of parents might not want to contact you first but will engage happily if they know that you are willing to engage with them and show its not just a line in an email. Obviously we are in unprecedented times and it's a learning curve for everyone but it's what it is and we all have to play our part.
Maybe you won't get any engagement or feedback and the status quo will remain the same but at least you will be able to say you made the effort and tried your best.

My email on a Monday contains all of the points you made, bar the Friday review, which i take on board as a good idea.

If I ask people to contact me at any time, I can't understand why i would need to contact again to remind people to contact me again!

Plenty of meaningful, extra work is sent in my original email. A few parents have replied with copies of children's work, I correct and return. As I said I'm assuming that the others are either not engaging or are happy.

What we are doing is working well for our school and our parents. We are a small country school and by god but we would know if they weren't happy. I'm very involved in my local community and a lot of parents would have my mobile number because of GAA/ scór etc. I'm certain that if anyone was struggling then I'd be contacted. What works for us will not work elsewhere though.

FishOnABike

G-Man wrote: »

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Things are not ideal, but we are into 2nd month of this and to get another dose of pdfs, many of which we cant print, for which there will be no feedback on is very poor form.

Are the print rights on the PDFs password restricted or why can they not be printed?

Even if they are password restticted, if they can be viewed a screenshot of each page can be printed if the PDF can't be printed directly.

BarryD2

Murple wrote: »

The advantage to this closure is that everyone is in the same boat. It's not like when a child is on holidays or is sick and the class continues as normal. I think maths is the only subject where there will be any difficulty in catching up as there are specific skills taught in each class level and built on the following year.

Agree fully that all in same boat. But maths is a prime example of endless boring repetition - how many different possible ways can be thought of to do basic sums and fill in the day. It's a wonder children aren't turned off the subject altogether and many are

PreCocious

I'm not a teacher but I am a parent.

My organisation has recently rolled out remote working to virtually everyone and it has been an eye opener.

Whilst my kids, my wife and I all have laptops and we've excellent broadband it's clear that many colleagues are sharing devices amongst family members and in a lot of places broadband is poor (I'm in Cork city and locally eir is poor and three is pathetic).

Schools are notoriously underfunded in terms of technology and access to same. This crisis will possibly help change that or maybe it'll be ignored. Universities are well funded but were caught on the hop as well.

Sometimes I think we all live in bubbles and assume that everyone has the same privilege as us.

heldel00

Well said. We each have a school laptop (5 teachers) and we had to have a big song&dance of an assembly because the Parents' assoc donated 5 Samsung tablets. That is the height of our access to tech in the school.
(Btw I'm not knocking the Par. Assoc. They are working with very limited funds but for a modern country, trying to run shoulders with the creme de la creme of Europe and the world, we are a bloody joke.)

afatbollix

afatbollix wrote: »

GDPR and children is very serious.

Basically they can't give permission for storage of any of their data not even their names. So for schools or companies who control this (Not the teachers) they only allow the data to be stored on school or company equipment and can be deleted after.

Yes, its a bit crap that something really meant for the googles of the world affects keeping a kids name on a PC but that's what it did.

I know a few teachers currently (and have always been) using their personal phones and laptops for school related stuff and now using them to teach by video, set and correct homework, call patents etc. GDPR my hole I really wish it could be erased from existence.

I also know plenty of teachers who use their school issued laptops and iPads as their personal machine also. There are a few on boards obsessed with GDPR, most people don’t care as it’s a load of bull.

Dr Turk Turkelton

heldel00 wrote: »

My email on a Monday contains all of the points you made, bar the Friday review, which i take on board as a good idea.

If I ask people to contact me at any time, I can't understand why i would need to contact again to remind people to contact me again!

Plenty of meaningful, extra work is sent in my original email. A few parents have replied with copies of children's work, I correct and return. As I said I'm assuming that the others are either not engaging or are happy.

What we are doing is working well for our school and our parents. We are a small country school and by god but we would know if they weren't happy. I'm very involved in my local community and a lot of parents would have my mobile number because of GAA/ scór etc. I'm certain that if anyone was struggling then I'd be contacted. What works for us will not work elsewhere though.

Fair play you seem to have a handle on it then and also fair play for taking the Friday review on board. I do find as a parent though it can be awkward contacting a teacher and that is why I suggested reaching out and when it's seen that you are welcoming to it, it would be be a lot easier to send that initial awkward contact.
Best of luck getting through this tough time.

neonsofa

FishOnABike wrote: »

Are the print rights on the PDFs password restricted or why can they not be printed?

Even if they are password restticted, if they can be viewed a screenshot of each page can be printed if the PDF can't be printed directly.

We had this issue with pdfs too. I think it's a shared template and each class teacher enters the info for their class, but when you open and print the pdf it only prints the template, not the text they had entered. Copied and pasted it into word and had same issue, tried every single work around you could think of, and it just didnt make any sense. In the end I had to do as you suggest, print screen it and print that way.

neonsofa

neonsofa wrote: »

We had this issue with pdfs too. I think it's a shared template and each class teacher enters the info for their class, but when you open and print the pdf it only prints the template, not the text they had entered. Copied and pasted it into word and had same issue, tried every single work around you could think of, and it just didnt make any sense. In the end I had to do as you suggest, print screen it and print that way.

There are free online tools to unlock pdfs, they have worked for me in the past.

neonsofa

Jacoby Short Table wrote: »

There are free online tools to unlock pdfs, they have worked for me in the past.

Tbh the print screen worked grand in the end, was just a very confusing time printing multiple blank templates no matter what we did, and it didnt make sense that the template showed but the contents didnt, even on other platforms after a copy and paste. I would be used to locked pdfs that require pins but never had that issue before, so it was a learning curve along with everything else, just took some workaround and some wasted ink :pac:

In my primary school there was one particular teacher who thought her job was to lash out the homework, spend the following day correcting it, and then lash out more at about 2.30. Rinse and repeat.

Unfortunately some teachers are just like that.

FishOnABike

There might be an option in the PDF application you are using, to print the document and include comments and / or annotations.

heldel00

Deleted User wrote: »

In my primary school there was one particular teacher who thought her job was to lash out the homework, spend the following day correcting it, and then lash out more at about 2.30. Rinse and repeat.

Unfortunately some teachers are just like that.

I also had a doctor that thought it was his job to lash out antibiotics, spend a week realising that they weren't needed and then lash out more when I'd go back.
Thank God this was 20 years ago so I realise now that not all doctors are like that.

neonsofa

FishOnABike wrote: »

There might be an option in the PDF application you are using, to print the document and include comments and / or annotations.

Never even thought of that, every day is a learning day! Thanks