School not using Video Conferencing but lashing out the homework

History Queen

thomasdylan wrote: »

Its pretty bad that your understanding of the hospital situation is so shallow that you think nurses and HCAs aren't at risk if they're not working on COVID wards.

Guidelines today changed BTW that for all patient encounters on COVID or non-COVID wards a mask should be worn.

While your nurse family members are going to work, all that is expected of you is to work from home. It's not in the same league. It's embrassing you can't seem to see the difference here.

My family members are not at risk. That is by their own admission not mine. I think they should be equally recognised however not just people putting their lives at risk. They work in awful understaffed conditions every day. Long before there was a pandemic.

And of course I am not seriously comparing working at home to working on the front line. I was being facetious to try and highlight the fact that your proposal is too simplistic. Obviously that didn't translate very clearly.

khalessi

thomasdylan wrote: »

Its pretty bad that your understanding of the hospital situation is so shallow that you think nurses and HCAs aren't at risk if they're not working on COVID wards.

Guidelines today changed BTW that for all patient encounters on COVID or non-COVID wards a mask should be worn.

While your nurse family members are going to work, all that is expected of you is to work from home. It's not in the same league. It's embrassing you can't seem to see the difference here.

Will it be in the same league when the schools reopen. Will you be clapping or teachers who will be at risk. WIll you agree with them wearing masks while teaching if they wish?

thomasdylan

History Queen wrote: »

My family members are not at risk. That is by their own admission not mine. I think they should be equally recognised however not just people putting their lives at risk. They work in awful understaffed conditions every day. Long before there was a pandemic.

And of course I am not seriously comparing working at home to working on the front line. I was being facetious to try and highlight the fact that your proposal is too simplistic. Obviously that didn't translate very clearly.

My proposal is simplistic alright. But the big barrier to protecting frontline pay when there are cuts is that people like yourself will try to equate what you are doing with what nurses are doing.

If your family members work in a hospital they are at risk. Why have they be told to wear masks with all patients if there's no risk there?

And with the staff shortages at the moment there's a good chance they'll be looking after COVID patients at some point.

khalessi

thomasdylan wrote: »

My proposal is simplistic alright. But the big barrier to protecting frontline pay when there are cuts is that people like yourself will try to equate what you are doing with what teachers are doing.

If your family members work in a hospital they are at risk. Why have they be told to wear masks with all patients if there's no risk there?

And with the staff shortages at the moment there's a good chance they'll be looking after COVID patients at some point.

My sister works in a hospital as admin in a covid ward, with covid patients and was told not to wear a mask as it will scare the patients, I kid you not. I told her if the nurses wear one she wears one and no ifs or buts.

History Queen

khalessi wrote: »

My sister works in a hospital as admin in a covid ward, with covid patients and was told not to wear a mask as it will scare the patients, I kid you not. I told her if the nurses wear one she wears one and no ifs or buts.

That's horrendous

khalessi

History Queen wrote: »

That's horrendous

I know, I told her to ask if they knew what white coat syndrome is and her wearing a mask wasnt a problem, so she did and is now wearing a mask.

thomasdylan

khalessi wrote: »

Will it be in the same league when the schools reopen. Will you be clapping or teachers who will be at risk. WIll you agree with them wearing masks while teaching if they wish?

No, of course not. Going to work directly with COVID patients in hospital is different than going to work in a school. And anyway, all the evidence looks like healthcare workers are at a highest risk of dying from Covid-19.

Teachers should wear masks if the recommendation is that they should.

khalessi

thomasdylan wrote: »

No, of course not. Going to work directly with COVID patients in hospital is different than going to work in a school. And anyway, all the evidence looks like healthcare workers are at a highest risk of dying from Covid-19.

Teachers should wear masks if the recommendation is that they should.

Interesting as nobody minds cashiers wearing masks and gloves and getting spit screens dealing with mainly the public in shops and supermarkets, and they are not dealing with covid patients

History Queen

Anyway to get this thread back on track, any suggestions for how to engage students who aren't working (not ones with genuine excuses, I've been in contact with themor their parents and found work arounds where appropriate). I have a number of students just not engaging since the Easter holidays and some more doing the bare minimum. Any ideas?

Edited to say I'm posting here as parents who are not necessarily teachers might have insight or ideas on how to motivate their kids.

thomasdylan

khalessi wrote: »

Interesting as nobody minds cashiers wearing masks and gloves and getting spit screens dealing with mainly the public in shops and supermarkets, and they are not dealing with covid patients

I'm sure there are cashiers wearing masks but I haven't seen any.

Gloves makes sense as they're probably in contact with 100s of people a shift.

Once there's more research we'll know more.

I don't see the controversy in what I said. If teachers are advised to wear PPE they should be provided with it.

khalessi

Was wondering the same myself, History Queen. I just spent from 730 until after 8 chating to a kid really stuck on Maths and am going to try to give the kid grinds online but it will be hard going technology wise.

What level are you talking?

History Queen

khalessi wrote: »

Was wondering the same myself, History Queen. I just spent from 730 until after 8 chating to a kid really stuck on Maths and am going to try to give the kid grinds online but it will be hard going technology wise.

What level are you talking?

My subjects are English and History
Believe it or not my 6th years are the worst, probably not helped by the fact that we have the course finished and now that exams are further away they aren't as motivated?

1st and 2nd years doing well for.the most part but my third yearsare noticably in decline sinve Easter too.

khalessi

History Queen wrote: »

My subjects are English and History
Believe it or not my 6th years are the worst, probably not helped by the fact that we have the course finished and now that exams are further away they aren't as motivated?

1st and 2nd years doing well for.the most part but my third yearsare noticably in decline sinve Easter too.

AH the effect of the Junior Cert in limbo

History Queen

khalessi wrote: »

AH the effect of the Junior Cert in limbo

I know... I suppose I've a fair idea of the cause but what I'm hoping is someone will have a suggestion of a solution. We all know it'll be teacher's fault anyway when they look at lack of engagement when this is over I just want to try as much as I reasonably can to mitigate.

(Already following school policy re reporting to yearheads/contacting parents etc) I was just wondering if anyone had suggestions of things that might 'grab' or entice the students to keep going?

History Queen

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History Queen

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slipperyox

runawaybishop wrote: »

Just want to confirm, you might accidently upload an inappropriate file online so for that reason you should refuse to work, but still get paid?

Can't beat Dialectic conversation.:)
I never mentioned that.
I mentioned a pitfall of doing this with "vulnerable" people, who are not adults.
Would be a useless forum if we all agreed we should just jump in, without a peek first.
Personally, I think video classes are a good idea to augment, but I believe better used with leaving certs.
There are also welfare aspects of video calling. Do it for 6 hours straight and come back tell me how you feel.



very little conversation in 29 pages of forum, on pros and cons of video calling...

History Queen

slipperyox wrote: »

Can't beat Dialectic conversation.:)
I never mentioned that.
I mentioned a pitfall of doing this with "vulnerable" people, who are not adults.
Would be a useless forum if we all agreed we should just jump in, without a peek first.
Personally, I think video classes are a good idea to augment, but I believe better used with leaving certs.
There are also welfare aspects of video calling. Do it for 6 hours straight and come back tell me how you feel.



very little conversation in 29 pages of forum, on pros and cons of video calling...

Not a con as such, I'm just very nervous of it as I'm not used to it. Also I'm at home with a 2 year old (my husband is working out of the house) so that makes it difficult. I can time prerecorded classes around sleep times and my husband being home so that works better for me. Saying that maybe my students would be more engaged if classes were live and they felt they had to "attend" class as such?

Dravokivich

jlm29 wrote: »

I think I could reasonably expect that If squinting at a 4” phone screen to upload school work was giving them eye strain, as was mentioned earlier in this thread (at least I think It was this thread), that they might have used the Easter holidays to put another plan in place that would be a bit easier. If a laptop was not affordable, then maybe they could make do with a not ideal tablet, for the sake of their eye sight. I don’t think a €50 tablet is optimal, but you yourself seemed to think it outrageous that a professional might be expected to purchase a laptop due to the cost. I was just suggesting an alternative.

If you are going to suggest an alternative, you are suggesting something you think will be effective for the job. Now you are just trying to get out putting forward a 50euro tablet knowing well and good, that it wasn't ever going to be capable for the workload.

For those advocating the use of video conferencing - I'm a primary school teacher and not a hope in hell I would do it - my sister has fourth class and her principal has asked all staff to do a 40 minute Zoom call with their class once a week.

She did it yesterday and said it was a disaster. She had four emailed complaints from parents after - one mother claiming she didn't get the link that was sent out and her child was being excluded (the irate parent managed to get her mobile number and rang her to tell her), another saying their child didn't get a chance to speak and was being excluded, another from a parent who took exception at her for asking a child not to curse at her brother who kept coming in to shot and finally one for using Irish at one point as she was excluding the parents who don't have the language.

Mostly, she said that the call wasn't really for the kids as they couldn't focus and got very little from it, but also because she felt it was just parents who were there and found it very unnerving and more than a little strange.

I've recorded a few video messages and small lessons and that seems to be a far better option for any class younger that Leaving Cert I would guess. Video conferencing and whole class Zoom calls seem to be totally counter productive, useless for the students and very stressful for the person trying to manage the whole thing.

Hannibal_Smith

Deleted User wrote: »

For those advocating the use of video conferencing - I'm a primary school teacher and not a hope in hell I would do it - my sister has fourth class and her principal has asked all staff to do a 40 minute Zoom call with their class once a week.

She did it yesterday and said it was a disaster. She had four emailed complaints from parents after - one mother claiming she didn't get the link that was sent out and her child was being excluded (the irate parent managed to get her mobile number and rang her to tell her), another saying their child didn't get a chance to speak and was being excluded, another from a parent who took exception at her for asking a child not to curse at her brother who kept coming in to shot and finally one for using Irish at one point as she was excluding the parents who don't have the language.

Mostly, she said that the call wasn't really for the kids as they couldn't focus and got very little from it, but also because she felt it was just parents who were there and found it very unnerving and more than a little strange.

I've recorded a few video messages and small lessons and that seems to be a far better option for any class younger that Leaving Cert I would guess. Video conferencing and whole class Zoom calls seem to be totally counter productive, useless for the students and very stressful for the person trying to manage the whole thing.

I think if you're going to do a zoom conference it's really important everyone is invited. Four emails of complaint out of how many kids? And if they all get to talk, a little check in with those who haven't spoken yet is important. We've done a class zoom, without the teacher, just between the kids and when they see each other first it is a bit 'whaaaaa'

Hannibal_Smith

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I think if you're going to do a zoom conference it's really important everyone is invited. Four emails of complaint out of how many kids? And if they all get to talk, a little check in with those who haven't spoken yet is important. We've done a class zoom, without the teacher, just between the kids and when they see each other first it is a bit 'whaaaaa'

Of course the parent was invited, but they missed the class and chose to blame the teacher, despite my sister proving that the parent had been sent the same email as the rest.

There are 31 kids - if you let every kid talk the lesson would last for hours. It's not that easy to give every child a chance to talk in a normal classroom setting never mind in a zoom call.

I think my sister was disappointed that she was put into a tough situation trying to chair and facilitate a tough call like that and didn't get much understanding from the parents.

Unfortunately, the parents in question could only see the mater from the perspective of their own child and didn't stop to think how tough it was for the teacher.

Hannibal_Smith

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course the parent was invited, but they missed the class and chose to blame the teacher, despite my sister proving that the parent had been sent the same email as the rest.

There are 31 kids - if you let every kid talk the lesson would last for hours. It's not that easy to give every child a chance to talk in a normal classroom setting never mind in a zoom call.

I think my sister was disappointed that she was put into a tough situation trying to chair and facilitate a tough call like that and didn't get much understanding from the parents.

Unfortunately, the parents in question could only see the mater from the perspective of their own child and didn't stop to think how tough it was for the teacher.

Ah ok I misunderstood. I thought everyone was allowed to say something but one was left out and another didn't get the invite. 4 parents out of 31 weren't happy. I know in my job, I could do the same job for 30 clients and the vast majority will be very appreciative but there will be a handful who will never appreciate the work you've done for them. If you sister is happy she did all she could, I wouldn't count it as a disaster. I wouldn't be inclined to do it again mind you.

cant26

Neyite wrote: »

In the private sector it's fairly simple - if you can continue to work from home, you do so. If you can't then your employer lays you off and you can contact Social Welfare for the €350 per week CoviDole.

So even though I'm an area with sh!t broad band, feck all mobile signal, and a portion of my work is office based and can't be transferred online I'm trying a myriad of ways that I can remain working for my employer so I can continue to get paid. I've a bored kid that we need to tag team to entertain plus two cocooning households as well as my own to shop for as well as clocking in for 40hrs. I'll make it work, I've no choice.

It'll never happen, but if the teachers who are currently radio silent were suddenly faced with either working from home or signing on there would be a bit more enthusiasm for tech solutions that work for their individual circumstances.

This!! If the excuses that some teachers are giving we’re given by private sector employees you’d be gone.

Hannibal_Smith

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Ah ok I misunderstood. I thought everyone was allowed to say something but one was left out and another didn't get the invite. 4 parents out of 31 weren't happy. I know in my job, I could do the same job for 30 clients and the vast majority will be very appreciative but there will be a handful who will never appreciate the work you've done for them. If you sister is happy she did all she could, I wouldn't count it as a disaster. I wouldn't be inclined to do it again mind you.

I'm not sure four lengthy emails outlining petty gripes and perceived slights and an irate phone call is a great strike rate!

At least in business, if a client or business partner is unhappy they deal with you in a professional manner.

Most parents are great - I'm blessed with the parents of my kids this year - but there are those who are constantly offended by the slightest things, are constantly looking for apologies and feel the need to take their anger and frustration out on teachers.

She was on to her principal and is never doing it again. It's not a suitable forum for kids that age, and allowing parents into the learning environment like that is not a great idea.

She's going back to 1 to 1 calls with kids who need help and uploading videos in her own time.

Hannibal_Smith

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure four lengthy emails outlining petty gripes and perceived slights and an irate phone call is a great strike rate!

At least in business, if a client or business partner is unhappy they deal with you in a professional manner.

Most parents are great - I'm blessed with the parents of my kids this year - but there are those who are constantly offended by the slightest things, are constantly looking for apologies and feel the need to take their anger and frustration out on teachers.

She was on to her principal and is never doing it again. It's not a suitable forum for kids that age, and allowing parents into the learning environment like that is not a great idea.

She's going back to 1 to 1 calls with kids who need help and uploading videos in her own time.

But it's 4 out of 31? No, not all clients will deal with you in a professional manner, when the clients are the general public. You will always get those that are under pressure and have their own gripes and you get the bullet. 4 out of 31, isn't bad? Especially when those parents sound really petty.

It's great she tried it. It didn't work out. Maybe 30 kids on zoom was a bit optimistic. But at least she tried. If it was my kid, I think I would have been present (in the background) to make sure my kid behaved more than anything. I've seen it with my two and their friends since doing the whole zoom thing that they get really giddy with each other onscreen.

A little consideration from both sides, ie that teachers and parents alike are having to operate in extremely stressful times and are doing their best, would go a long way.

BonsaiKitten

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For those advocating the use of video conferencing - I'm a primary school teacher and not a hope in hell I would do it - my sister has fourth class and her principal has asked all staff to do a 40 minute Zoom call with their class once a week.

She did it yesterday and said it was a disaster. She had four emailed complaints from parents after - one mother claiming she didn't get the link that was sent out and her child was being excluded (the irate parent managed to get her mobile number and rang her to tell her), another saying their child didn't get a chance to speak and was being excluded, another from a parent who took exception at her for asking a child not to curse at her brother who kept coming in to shot and finally one for using Irish at one point as she was excluding the parents who don't have the language.

While I'm sorry that happened to your sister, I'm also a 4th class teacher doing regular Zoom lessons - I split my class in groups for it. It is a short amount of work for me and it seems really successful so far. We're not covering anything like the amount of work we'd do in school but the kids are definitely working.

Ime video conferencing can work once you have a strict structure to it. Unfortunately the background of your class comes into play too as kids need devices and a quiet space for it to work, as well as parents who will get on board.

Edit: I will also day that my first few Zoom sessions were very wobbly. It gets much easier when you have a few under your belt.

Treppen

cant26 wrote: »

This!! If the excuses that some teachers are giving we’re given by private sector employees you’d be gone.

Teaching and learning takes place from the interaction between teacher and child. For secondary you are dealing with about 250 'clients' per day face to face + group dynamic. Now you are moving all of that online. Plus you were dealing with teenagers and the issues that inhibit/encourage learning, those issues haven't gone away.

You can't just treat all of these teachers as a homogeneous group where they can all switch to distance learning with zero training or IT support.

Seeing as you mentioned Private sector, could you give a similar example to teaching which includes a change of role and zero IT support?

Treppen

History Queen wrote: »

I know... I suppose I've a fair idea of the cause but what I'm hoping is someone will have a suggestion of a solution. We all know it'll be teacher's fault anyway when they look at lack of engagement when this is over I just want to try as much as I reasonably can to mitigate.

(Already following school policy re reporting to yearheads/contacting parents etc) I was just wondering if anyone had suggestions of things that might 'grab' or entice the students to keep going?

My 3rd years went dark, untill I told them there might be a possibility of an exam at the end of May 'set by me' instead of the JC so I'll be giving out exam tips and similar questions to exam style questions (I often told them that some of the questions on my exams are an exact copy of one I've done in class!).

Also I've tried giving small surveys through Forms where they rank in order the topics they'd like to cover and leave a space at the end for other comments. I got a good few responses that way as it made them think about the course and of gave them a say. Cuts down on my work too as I just focus on a few things at a time.