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School not using Video Conferencing but lashing out the homework
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BonsaiKitten wrote: »While I'm sorry that happened to your sister, I'm also a 4th class teacher doing regular Zoom lessons - I split my class in groups for it. It is a short amount of work for me and it seems really successful so far. We're not covering anything like the amount of work we'd do in school but the kids are definitely working.
Ime video conferencing can work once you have a strict structure to it. Unfortunately the background of your class comes into play too as kids need devices and a quiet space for it to work, as well as parents who will get on board.
Edit: I will also day that my first few Zoom sessions were very wobbly. It gets much easier when you have a few under your belt.
Great idea. If she was to split the thirty one kids into three groups and spend 25/30 minutes worth each group it would be far more productive and easier to manage.
Kudos to you for thinking on your feet and getting on with your job and improvising instead of moaning that it can't be done.0 -
My 3rd years went dark, untill I told them there might be a possibility of an exam at the end of May 'set by me' instead of the JC so I'll be giving out exam tips and similar questions to exam style questions (I often told them that some of the questions on my exams are an exact copy of one I've done in class!).
Also I've tried giving small surveys through Forms where they rank in order the topics they'd like to cover and leave a space at the end for other comments. I got a good few responses that way as it made them think about the course and of gave them a say. Cuts down on my work too as I just focus on a few things at a time.
Great suggestions thanks, especially about the survey0 -
BonsaiKitten wrote: »While I'm sorry that happened to your sister, I'm also a 4th class teacher doing regular Zoom lessons - I split my class in groups for it. It is a short amount of work for me and it seems really successful so far. We're not covering anything like the amount of work we'd do in school but the kids are definitely working.
Ime video conferencing can work once you have a strict structure to it. Unfortunately the background of your class comes into play too as kids need devices and a quiet space for it to work, as well as parents who will get on board.
Edit: I will also day that my first few Zoom sessions were very wobbly. It gets much easier when you have a few under your belt.
That sounds great. I'll pass on those tips to my sister and maybe she'll try it again in smaller groups. Fair play!0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »That sounds great. I'll pass on those tips to my sister and maybe she'll try it again in smaller groups. Fair play!
Yeah starting into it is not easy at all - it's not what we trained for, I was daunted when I started and the excitement was through the roof in the first few sessions. Setting up class rules was a big help for me - I had them all 'sign' it via Google Forms. It was very like the class charters a lot of teachers do in September.
If your sister wants details of how I run my sessions send me a DM and I can explain it properly!0 -
Teaching and learning takes place from the interaction between teacher and child. For secondary you are dealing with about 250 'clients' per day face to face + group dynamic. Now you are moving all of that online. Plus you were dealing with teenagers and the issues that inhibit/encourage learning, those issues haven't gone away.
You can't just treat all of these teachers as a homogeneous group where they can all switch to distance learning with zero training or IT support.
Seeing as you mentioned Private sector, could you give a similar example to teaching which includes a change of role and zero IT support?
Of course there is not IT support since schools are not normally providing that type of service. I guess the point is, if you are unable to do a job because:
1) you don't have decent internet.
2) you don't have a suitable place in the house to work.
3) you don't know how to use the various tools.
Then you are not really available for work and should be put on unpaid leave I would say. Given the inconsistent approach it may have been better to allow all schools to be fully off now, with the view to coming back through the summer.0 -
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History Queen wrote: »Anyway to get this thread back on track, any suggestions for how to engage students who aren't working (not ones with genuine excuses, I've been in contact with themor their parents and found work arounds where appropriate). I have a number of students just not engaging since the Easter holidays and some more doing the bare minimum. Any ideas?
Edited to say I'm posting here as parents who are not necessarily teachers might have insight or ideas on how to motivate their kids.
As a parent and one who's not working I can easily physically see what my primary child needs as all work is through edmodo now and I get the notifications. With my secondary the communication is directly with the students.
So I can watch and ask but also may not know if there is some slacking off. So I would appreciate an email at the end of the week or even every 2 weeks from a teacher to let me if we are on track or not.
That way I know, im informed and if work is not being done im aware of it and the responsibility is on me to get my childs ass in gear.
It would also protect any teacher who is working hard and has students who dont engage.
Because if come next year school year we are kids who have fallen behind and teachers who made no effort to flag it. I can see that causing issue0 -
There needs to be a lot of parent help with young children.
My ex is pulling her hair out as we dont live together and she does have a hard job keeping the child engaged. I try to be on a video call for a couple of hours each day to help too, and its kinda nice way to spend time, but its hard.
In the parent whatsapp group its full of people bitching and moaning about the teachers and the schools not doing enough and how they are stuck with the kids and cant work while the teachers do nothing.
Its hard for the teachers, its hard for the parents, its hard for the kids.
Its not an easy thing folks. Cop on and help your own kids too and dont if you feel this virus is interupting their education. Its nobodies fault, but people alwats have to blame someone else to blame.0 -
My children are at home and home schooling their children with, in the case of primary schools, very little interface with teachers and they are all loving the experience and it gives them all something to do together
I have one grandson in secondary school and his parents are finding some subjects rather challenging but they are getting through it. His school shares textbooks which was a problem initially but they have bought the ones he didn’t have0 -
As a parent and one who's not working I can easily physically see what my primary child needs as all work is through edmodo now and I get the notifications. With my secondary the communication is directly with the students.
So I can watch and ask but also may not know if there is some slacking off. So I would appreciate an email at the end of the week or even every 2 weeks from a teacher to let me if we are on track or not.
That way I know, im informed and if work is not being done im aware of it and the responsibility is on me to get my childs ass in gear.
It would also protect any teacher who is working hard and has students who dont engage.
Because if come next year school year we are kids who have fallen behind and teachers who made no effort to flag it. I can see that causing issue
Thanks for the reply. We have an online system called Vsware where teachers can put comments and I was (like my colleagues) putting a comment up there anytime a student didn't submit work(maybe once or twicea week), but parents contacted the school saying we were stressing them and students by putting up comments so we were told to stop and to contact yearheads instead who would contact parents directly or ok us to put comments up. We are all still keeping our own records of engagement and assignment submission.
I was speaking to one year head today about how these phone calls are going, she said some parents are having same issue as us trying to motivate students at home, others felt it wasn't their place to 'make' students do schoolwork, others have stopped answering the phone to her.
Interestingly only three households(from this particular group) have genuine technology issues and either the parents or the students have worked with us to find workarounds that suit their situation.
I'll ask management if maybe we could collate our individual feedback and send an update email or lettervto parents maybe every week or two. So just one piece of correspondence but still keeps them in the loop, do you think this would be acceptable as a parent yourself?0 -
History Queen wrote: »Thanks for the reply. We have an online system called Vsware where teachers can put comments and I was (like my colleagues) putting a comment up there anytime a student didn't submit work(maybe once or twicea week), but parents contacted the school saying we were stressing them and students by putting up comments so we were told to stop and to contact yearheads instead who would contact parents directly or ok us to put comments up. We are all still keeping our own records of engagement and assignment submission.
I was speaking to one year head today about how these phone calls are going, she said some parents are having same issue as us trying to motivate students at home, others felt it wasn't their place to 'make' students do schoolwork, others have stopped answering the phone to her.
Interestingly only three households(from this particular group) have genuine technology issues and either the parents or the students have worked with us to find workarounds that suit their situation.
I'll ask management if maybe we could collate our individual feedback and send an update email or lettervto parents maybe every week or two. So just one piece of correspondence but still keeps them in the loop, do you think this would be acceptable as a parent yourself?
Personally yes, I think its totally acceptable and i would be delighted. I really think when teacher and parent come together the child benefits the most.
I guess ultimately you cant please everyone. There will always be a student or a parent (most likely a parent) who will find cause to complain or moan. But all you can do is your best, seep doing as you are. Keep note and track of your availability. Because if anything it covers you for the inevitable the teacher is to blame brigade.0 -
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It is hilarious that parents always blame teachers and teachers don’t actually in practice, have the right to suggest that maybe some of the fault might lie with them.
Now that they are having to home educate their children might give them an insight into what teachers cope with having 20 little personalities together at one time!😀0 -
BonsaiKitten wrote: »Yeah starting into it is not easy at all - it's not what we trained for, I was daunted when I started and the excitement was through the roof in the first few sessions. Setting up class rules was a big help for me - I had them all 'sign' it via Google Forms. It was very like the class charters a lot of teachers do in September.
If your sister wants details of how I run my sessions send me a DM and I can explain it properly!
Thanks a million. I'll get on to her and PM if I need your help.0 -
It is hilarious that parents always blame teachers and teachers don’t actually in practice, have the right to suggest that maybe some of the fault might lie with them.
Now that they are having to home educate their children might give them an insight into what teachers cope with having 20 little personalities together at one time!��
Its like comparing apples and oranges though. One is trained to do the job and the other isn't. One has the supports and setting of the classroom and the other doesnt. Not to mention the way I learned in school is nothing like my kids are being taught.0 -
I fully accept primary not using sharing platforms............I agree.0
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Of course there is not IT support since schools are not normally providing that type of service. I guess the point is, if you are unable to do a job because:
1) you don't have decent internet.
2) you don't have a suitable place in the house to work.
3) you don't know how to use the various tools.
Then you are not really available for work and should be put on unpaid leave I would say. Given the inconsistent approach it may have been better to allow all schools to be fully off now, with the view to coming back through the summer.
So teachers who don't have broadband or training should be put on unpaid leave??0 -
So teachers who don't have broadband or training should be put on unpaid leave??
This kinda attitude from some annoys the hell out of me. Personally I'm having to use mobile data which is very patchy as new estate isn't connected and won't be connected to the network by Eir for quite some time. Not my fault that I don't have or can't get fixed broadband. Some days the mobile data works fine, next day nothing, won't even load a page never mind anything else.0 -
So teachers who don't have broadband or training should be put on unpaid leave??
Well if you can't work from home, why would you be paid? I think there needs to be a review of how well it has worked overall during the summer. I don't see the point in having some teachers engaging and others not. It would be better to let everyone have holidays now and then work during the summer if it is possible to do so.0 -
This!! If the excuses that some teachers are giving we’re given by private sector employees you’d be gone.
Nothing surprises me anymore but some of the posts on this thread alone show a total disregard for all variables involved.
It's not really about private and public sector in this instance, there are jobs/roles in both sectors that don't and cannot be delivered from a home environment.
Then there's the whole infrastructure perspective. Have staff adequate equipment, infrastructure, training and support to do their job from home?
In this instance you also have the consideration of the clients. Do the clients have the equipment, infrastructure, training and support?
Finally, as one is dealing with the young and very young you have a whole heap of considerations around supervision, child protection and appropriate behaviour comes into play.
Most of what I've seen happening, teachers sending daily work in a weekly format, is perfectly adequate combined with videos and links to further resources.
People maybe seeing that managing a class of 30 odd 5-18 year olds on a weekly basis is not straightforward.
It is extremely difficult to engage with adult learners over zoom, never mind teenagers and younger.
As an aside, a lot of places are struggling with WFH because they were not set up for it from an infrastructure and business process point of view initially and will probably ensure this doesn't happen again. Business continuity planning was big for a while after 9/11 but will take a big leap forward again in the coming years.
It's hard enough for business who may have dedicated personel available to install, support and train in IT infrastructure but schools dont have these resources a lot of the time.0 -
Well if you can't work from home, why would you be paid? I think there needs to be a review of how well it has worked overall during the summer. I don't see the point in having some teachers engaging and others not. It would be better to let everyone have holidays now and then work during the summer if it is possible to do so.
Well what would be the difference between now and the summer. It is not like the government is suddently going to go,oh the teachers need broadband during to teach remotely, make it so. THey are too busy trying to fix the Leaving Cert situation0 -
Well what would be the difference between now and the summer. It is not like the government is suddently going to go,oh the teachers need broadband during to teach remotely, make it so. THey are too busy trying to fix the Leaving Cert situation
I wasn't suggesting that they teach remotely in the summer. I don't think it works very well, particularly for primary kids.0 -
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[Deleted User] wrote: »For those advocating the use of video conferencing - I'm a primary school teacher and not a hope in hell I would do it - my sister has fourth class and her principal has asked all staff to do a 40 minute Zoom call with their class once a week.
She did it yesterday and said it was a disaster. She had four emailed complaints from parents after - one mother claiming she didn't get the link that was sent out and her child was being excluded (the irate parent managed to get her mobile number and rang her to tell her), another saying their child didn't get a chance to speak and was being excluded, another from a parent who took exception at her for asking a child not to curse at her brother who kept coming in to shot and finally one for using Irish at one point as she was excluding the parents who don't have the language.
Mostly, she said that the call wasn't really for the kids as they couldn't focus and got very little from it, but also because she felt it was just parents who were there and found it very unnerving and more than a little strange.
I've recorded a few video messages and small lessons and that seems to be a far better option for any class younger that Leaving Cert I would guess. Video conferencing and whole class Zoom calls seem to be totally counter productive, useless for the students and very stressful for the person trying to manage the whole thing.
I teach third and have been using Google Meet with great success. Key is setting ground rules. I had just been assigning work via google Classroom but my class were really craving live interaction with me and each other.
My tips would be
1. Ensure all microphones are muted at the start. In Google Meet I can manually mute anyone who didn’t mute their own. I get my class to leave their cameras on if possible and then physically raise their hand to ask a question. When I call on them they unmute their mics and then mute again when they are finished talking to me. I only allow one child to be unmuted at a time.
2. Have a class list next to your laptop and tick off students you’ve given an opportunity to speak. I usually either try to speak to everyone or half the class with the other half speaking/called on in the next session.
3. Enable grid view. Not sure how this works on Zoom but on google meet you have to add an extension to see all faces on grid view. If a student has their camera off their name appears in their spot so I know they’re there. Names appear as they are registered in google Classroom.
4. Limit expectations. Don’t think you can teach a top quality lesson like you would at school. It’s simply not possible. Keep it short, keep in simple. Some of my videos have literally just been a question time about work I’ve given. Or how to upload Classwork etc for me to correct. Also word games, show and tell, tables activities etc are great. You want them to enjoy it.
5. Focus on the positives-I got one or 2 complaints at the start. But I also got great feedback from others. I chose to concentrate on that.
6. Make it clear these videos are for the children, not the parents. If parents want to supervise that’s obviously fine. But it’s the child’s voice and the child’s face you want to see. When parents ask questions I tell them I’ll phone them when we are done and discuss it then. Once I had done that a few times they stopped. To be fair, most parents got it and would email or message on Google Classroom instead.
7. Try out the platform before you begin. Make sure you have a fair idea of what you’re doing. Get some colleagues or family members to join a practice session so you can figure out what you’re doing and how it all works.0 -
So teachers who don't have broadband or training should be put on unpaid leave??
The training argument really annoys me, it's a total cop out imo. We've been off for weeks. There are a lot of places teachers can turn to for training - Teaching Council holding webinars right now, my local education center has offered to schedule sessions with tutors and you can just follow all the how to videos online. Huge amounts of support being offered by Seesaw etc right now.
We are all adults and honestly if a teacher is hiding behind the no training excuse then why should they be paid? No one is expecting perfection but they should be doing something for that wage.0 -
Dravokivich wrote: »If you are going to suggest an alternative, you are suggesting something you think will be effective for the job. Now you are just trying to get out putting forward a 50euro tablet knowing well and good, that it wasn't ever going to be capable for the workload.
Teachers are given €600 every year in flat rate expenses.
If you have been teaching for the last ten years, that six fucking thousand euro you have been given by the tax payer.
In the times that's in it, it's not too much to ask that teachers would buy a new laptop if needed to continue their work.0 -
Teachers are given €600 every year in allowances.
If you have been teaching for the last ten years, that six fucking thousand euro you have been given by the tax payer.
In the times that's in it, it's not too much to ask that teachers would buy a new laptop if needed to continue their work.
That allowances money goes towards buying classroom materials, schools are hugely underfunded. Art materials, items for science experiments, rewards, display items are purchased throughout the year. It's not as simple as "teachers have been stuffing €600 under the mattress every year".0 -
Teachers are given €600 every year in flat rate expenses.
If you have been teaching for the last ten years, that six fucking thousand euro you have been given by the tax payer.
In the times that's in it, it's not too much to ask that teachers would buy a new laptop if needed to continue their work.
Of which teachers are taxpayers, there is a joke that goes teaching the only job you steal from home and bring it to work.
For my first teaching job I was handed my supplies, a dice and a bag of marbles. The school didnt have money to buy supplies, I spent 1800 euro of my own money that year on supplies. Over the years my spend on classroom materials including photocopying is around 400e but usually more.0 -
BonsaiKitten wrote: »That allowances money goes towards buying classroom materials, schools are hugely underfunded. Art materials, items for science experiments, rewards, display items are purchased throughout the year. It's not as simple as "teachers have been stuffing €600 under the mattress every year".
That means u stuff it under the mattress some years - lol0 -
BonsaiKitten wrote: »That allowances money goes towards buying classroom materials, schools are hugely underfunded. Art materials, items for science experiments, rewards, display items are purchased throughout the year. It's not as simple as "teachers have been stuffing €600 under the mattress every year".
No, but it is a bit mental to think that someone who works in education has no access to a tablet or laptop in this day and age, as many are claiming. I work in education myself, and I couldn’t be without a laptop.0 -
No, but it is a bit mental to think that someone who works in education has no access to a tablet or laptop in this day and age, as many are claiming. I work in education myself, and I couldn’t be without a laptop.
I used to email my Cúntas miosúil to my principal from my personal email account. She told me that if school was ever "checked" (not sure who does the checking) but if required I would have to give them total access to my email account. I now send everything from my school email.
I think people are claiming that they don't have a school laptop provided for them. I don't think teachers should be expected to use personal device and then, if something goes wrong, maybe have to hand it over to the "powers that be".
People are entitled to look up, within reason, whatever they like on their own personal device. I for example, would not like my superiors to know that I could easily sit for an hour watching pimple popping videos - don't judge!0 -
Bizarre comment there from Millionaire. My 4th class have better critical thinking skills.No, but it is a bit mental to think that someone who works in education has no access to a tablet or laptop in this day and age, as many are claiming. I work in education myself, and I couldn’t be without a laptop.
I teach but I just have a tablet and phone at home - I don't need a personal laptop. Right now I have a school laptop to use at home. Without that I could probably do bits of work on the tablet but I can't see it being as effective - and I wouldn't be spending my own money on a laptop for work.
There must be teachers out there who don't have devices at home and aren't able to borrow a school device (there are certainly staff in my school who don't have anything other than a phone). I know of a lot of schools which just have desktops in classrooms.0 -
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I teach third and have been using Google Meet with great success. Key is setting ground rules. I had just been assigning work via google Classroom but my class were really craving live interaction with me and each other.
My tips would be
1. Ensure all microphones are muted at the start. In Google Meet I can manually mute anyone who didn’t mute their own. I get my class to leave their cameras on if possible and then physically raise their hand to ask a question. When I call on them they unmute their mics and then mute again when they are finished talking to me. I only allow one child to be unmuted at a time.
2. Have a class list next to your laptop and tick off students you’ve given an opportunity to speak. I usually either try to speak to everyone or half the class with the other half speaking/called on in the next session.
3. Enable grid view. Not sure how this works on Zoom but on google meet you have to add an extension to see all faces on grid view. If a student has their camera off their name appears in their spot so I know they’re there. Names appear as they are registered in google Classroom.
4. Limit expectations. Don’t think you can teach a top quality lesson like you would at school. It’s simply not possible. Keep it short, keep in simple. Some of my videos have literally just been a question time about work I’ve given. Or how to upload Classwork etc for me to correct. Also word games, show and tell, tables activities etc are great. You want them to enjoy it.
5. Focus on the positives-I got one or 2 complaints at the start. But I also got great feedback from others. I chose to concentrate on that.
6. Make it clear these videos are for the children, not the parents. If parents want to supervise that’s obviously fine. But it’s the child’s voice and the child’s face you want to see. When parents ask questions I tell them I’ll phone them when we are done and discuss it then. Once I had done that a few times they stopped. To be fair, most parents got it and would email or message on Google Classroom instead.
7. Try out the platform before you begin. Make sure you have a fair idea of what you’re doing. Get some colleagues or family members to join a practice session so you can figure out what you’re doing and how it all works.
How about families that don't have devices for these lessons?0
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