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School not using Video Conferencing but lashing out the homework
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How is this thread even still going? The toxicity is disgusting!
Fourm rules......
The rules of the forum are simple but absolute.
We have one guiding principle: Don't be a dick.
Do not post any material that you know or should know is hateful, abusive, harassing, false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, vulgar, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or illegal.
You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. If we tell you to refrain from behaviour that we regard as uncivil, or that in our view detracts from a productive discussion, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges.
We reserve the right to delete any post for any or no reason whatsoever.0 -
Midlandsmesser wrote: »How is this thread even still going? The toxicity is disgusting!
Fourm rules......
The rules of the forum are simple but absolute.
We have one guiding principle: Don't be a dick.
Do not post any material that you know or should know is hateful, abusive, harassing, false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, vulgar, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or illegal.
You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. If we tell you to refrain from behaviour that we regard as uncivil, or that in our view detracts from a productive discussion, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges.
We reserve the right to delete any post for any or no reason whatsoever.
I don't see any posts breaking those rules?0 -
.Midlandsmesser wrote: »How is this thread even still going? The toxicity is disgusting!
Forum rules......
The rules of the forum are simple but absolute.
We have one guiding principle: Don't be a dick.
Do not post any material that you know or should know is hateful, abusive, harassing, false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, vulgar, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or illegal.
You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. If we tell you to refrain from behaviour that we regard as uncivil, or that in our view detracts from a productive discussion, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges.
We reserve the right to delete any post for any or no reason whatsoever.
I don't see any posts breaking those rules?
Right you are so.0 -
Christ almighty I don't know.
One side is saying they are happy enough with the plan for the week that they can do at their own pace.
The other side wants day to day interaction and a bit of a chat with class teacher.
One teacher is applauded because she sent out free postcards (which btw I don't think I'd be too happy with my address lying around some teacher's house).
Another is great because she left Easter eggs on her pupils doorsteps.
Can't do right for doing wrong.
Yes, can't win one way or another. I will hold my hands up and say some of my profession don't want to do a tap of work (you should've seen some posters in another message board going to extreme lengths to justify doing feck all) but that's not unique to teaching.
As an aside being able to access parents contact details is very normal - I have always been able to do it as a teacher. Most schools now are on online roll systems and class teachers can access addresses/ phone numbers/ birth dates etc.0 -
People generally don't have a clue about GDPR apart from what it stands for, so is easily misinterpreted..
I know, I even saw somebody say that the reason we didn’t get more details about Boris Johnson’s condition was because of GDPR. Aaaaah, no, that’s just standard medical confidentiality which has been around forever. What, do they think that pre-GDPR, doctors were running their mouths? GDPR is the worst acronym in the history of acronyms. WAG is the best. :P0 -
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I can't see how video conferencing would work where there is more than one pupil in the house and only one laptop?
Our two teachers are great. They're setting up the work weekly via Google Classroom and Aladdin and away we go. They're on the other end of message stream if we need anything.
The only thing is, they're both pointing us to websites for books that we can't get on to, because clearly every student in Ireland is trying to access the same website. It's really annoying. Once they became aware of it though, they uploaded photographs and we could work off them.
I think this way of working things was great for the stop gap between school closures and Easter. But there's just a little extra needed at this stage. It's all set up as if it's homework, with instructions on how to complete it. But no actual lesson on how it's done. If that makes sense?
I'm sure it's difficult for teachers as well and they have their own lockdown lives to persevere through, I'm just worried that they're going to miss out on a significant block of learning that I'm not qualified to provide.0 -
Hannibal_Smith wrote: »I'm sure it's difficult for teachers as well and they have their own lockdown lives to persevere through, I'm just worried that they're going to miss out on a significant block of learning that I'm not qualified to provide.
What ages are your kids.. unless they are in Leaving Cert year, they'll be grand.
There's a fierce amount of repetition in the education system, time wasted etc. Easy to catch up on if students and teachers put their minds to it.
And if they are in Leaving Cert year, they'll still be grand as everyone's in the same boat. The students that are motivated will do a bit whether they're in school or at home. The ones who couldn't really care would doss either way too.0 -
Hannibal_Smith wrote: »I can't see how video conferencing would work where there is more than one pupil in the house and only one laptop?
Our two teachers are great. They're setting up the work weekly via Google Classroom and Aladdin and away we go. They're on the other end of message stream if we need anything.
The only thing is, they're both pointing us to websites for books that we can't get on to, because clearly every student in Ireland is trying to access the same website. It's really annoying. Once they became aware of it though, they uploaded photographs and we could work off them.
I think this way of working things was great for the stop gap between school closures and Easter. But there's just a little extra needed at this stage. It's all set up as if it's homework, with instructions on how to complete it. But no actual lesson on how it's done. If that makes sense?
I'm sure it's difficult for teachers as well and they have their own lockdown lives to persevere through, I'm just worried that they're going to miss out on a significant block of learning that I'm not qualified to provide.
Fair enough but there is only so much primary teachers can do if they are not in class. They are giving work, you can contact them directly, they have addressed issues with books. You actually can't have it all you know.
Those teachers have their house in order in my view.0 -
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The advantage to this closure is that everyone is in the same boat. It's not like when a child is on holidays or is sick and the class continues as normal. I think maths is the only subject where there will be any difficulty in catching up as there are specific skills taught in each class level and built on the following year. However every teacher will be able to say what they had covered up to the school closures and communicate this to the next teacher if it is the case that schools don't reopen until the new school year. If schools reopen before then, I would imagine that maths would be prioritised over some other subjects. Doing lots of revision work now through remote learning will help ensure that what has been learned to date is known well and can be built on. Early primary classes will likely prioritise literacy to ensure children know their letters and sounds etc.
I would hope that no parent would worry about their child missing out or falling behind. It will be each school and teacher's job and duty to help support all children when schools are up and running. Doing some remote learning activities are important as they keep things ticking over in the child's mind. Wouldn't it be great if every primary child returned to school saying they had done loads and loads of reading or if older children were able to say 'I know my tables inside out'! A parent's priority at the moment is to keep their household safe and secure. They should have no guilt or worry attached to what level of schooling or education they are able to provide or facilitate. Just do what you and it is enough.0 -
Totally out of context.
My issue is with internet access. I can only only email work. I don’t have to capacity to upload videos or live stream myself.
Should a situation arise where I can access better internet I have no problem with streaming myself. My point was that teacher home situations do not always lend themselves to live teaching. Same for students what if they can’t access laptop for live teaching at a particular time?
Email work is secure, there for them to access at any time and contains the same explanations I would include when in the classroom. They can send me questions should they have any.
This zoom teaching is only a novelty.
I'm amazed you're putting yourself through this trial by forummers, why do you need to justify yourself to a load of strangers? You're being held to account for the efforts you are making to adapt to a global pandemic and an unprecedented closure of schools nationwide. Save yourself the heartache, if you're happy with the efforts you are making - grand.0 -
So can I ask the teachers a Q... As I didn't see an answer earlier but maybe I missed it...
Would you be willing to work with groups of 15 children or half a class size, roving am and pm, for June and thru to late July.... With consideration for the existing July provision scheme?
I think that's the nub of it?
I don't get the view that 'kids will be grand'... Without any education in school setting for 6 months. You are definitely not doing yourselves justice as a profession if that's the party line. And I mean that in good spirit.0 -
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Ray Donovan wrote: »Fair enough but there is only so much primary teachers can do if they are not in class. They are giving work, you can contact them directly, they have addressed issues with books. You actually can't have it all you know.
Those teachers have their house in order in my view.
Did I ask for it all? Did I suggest the teachers didn't have their houses in order? No on both counts. I said both teachers are great. I said they are available. I said the problem we had was solved.
I aired a concern I had in relation to the process itself.0 -
I know many teachers are struggling to get work uploaded due to broadband speeds in their homes. Some had been going in to the school to upload work but that is no longer allowed.
Hold on a second, I live in dublin with sufficient broadband in a reasonably well off area. And there are no online class, no correcting of homework I cant believe it.
The older kids are getting videos which are ok.
Little ones just get homework, I can not believe that they do have a zoom meeting with a class catch up or short discussion.
No data protection as you dont need to record the session and no kids information stored. And we are in an emergency situation we could get the policy written over a weekend.0 -
So can I ask the teachers a Q... As I didn't see an answer earlier but maybe I missed it...
Would you be willing to work with groups of 15 children or half a class size, roving am and pm, for June and thru to late July.... With consideration for the existing July provision scheme?
I think that's the nub of it?
I don't get the view that 'kids will be grand'... Without any education in school setting for 6 months. You are definitely not doing yourselves justice as a profession if that's the party line. And I mean that in good spirit.
I'm a secondary school teacher but I'd imagine that the issue in my school would be similsr to many... many classrooms can only accommodate 6-8 students while adhering to social distancing. I have no bother going back to school til the end of the school year if it's safe to do so.I also have no bother accomodating my LC students for two weeks in July.
What I do take issue with(not directed at you in particular LilyShame) is the constant attacks on teachers. We (most of us anyway) are working online so students shouldn't be left 6 months with no education. Any parent with students in that situation needtodirectly contact the principal and BOM of theor school if that is indeed the case. Working from home is recognised in other industries, why do people struggle to accept that many teachers are doing the same?
No other profession that I know of is subjected to such bile. Yes there are bad teachers, equally there are bad doctors/politicians/ accountants/emplyers/employees etc.
For the most part we are doing our best with what we have. We are people too with families and worries and struggles, that is not unique to the parents and students in this situation, teachers are finding it difficult too.0 -
I posted near the start of the crisis in another thread about the issue of homework..
Interesting reading all this.
My own three, 1st year, transition year and 4th class
1st year: He gets homework from 2 of his i think 7 teachers twice a week. One was to transcribe the national anthem. English, Irish and History are the only subjects he has got any work in.
Transition year: wasnt expecting much but zero contact not even an email asking how they are.
4th Class: an email from school account once a week with a list of work to be done, spellings to learn, tomestables, new work not revision. No support, no correcting. Email asks parents to correct and supervise.
We wrote an email to the pricipal regarding this...no reply so dont bother following the work.
Do I sympathize with teachers, somewhat. Dont expect live chats/video calls but some really have questions to be answered. 5 out of 7 teachers had zero contact with their 1st year students.
Primary school teacher writes up a weeks work, possibly a 1/2 days work what do they do thecother 4 1/2 days
I think this is an opportunity to overhaul the school set up. Extend the school years, no need for long easter/xmas and summer holidays.0 -
I’m also a teacher (secondary). I record videos and put them up for the students to view as well as do out notes. I encourage them to ask any questions they have, they can e-mail or put it up on the class page. The feedback I’m getting from the pupils seems to be that they are happy with what we are doing and I’m happy with the content we are covering.
Personally, I don’t want to do Live Tecahing, I don’t feel comfortable with the possibility of something happening that shouldn’t, a student doing something stupid or even an accusation being made (unfortunately you can’t be too careful these days and also I teach the opposite sex). I’ve heard a few horror stories.
Most teachers I know are doing their best and working away consistently. There will always be the few letting the side down but they are in every walk of life, in every job.
The thing that annoys me is the constant moaning about teachers. I know people that work in offices that are absolutely useless but we don’t hear people always moaning about them, saying office workers are useless, question if they are doing as much as they should now that they are at home. To me it seems that dorm people had a bad experience when they were in a school (different times) and angry as a result. I suppose the other thing is the holidays which seems to draw a lot of ire.
To answer someone’s question from earlier, the response from teachers has been very clear that they will teach the Leaving Certs in school in the summer of it is safe to do so, every teacher I know will do so.0 -
So can I ask the teachers a Q... As I didn't see an answer earlier but maybe I missed it...
Would you be willing to work with groups of 15 children or half a class size, roving am and pm, for June and thru to late July.... With consideration for the existing July provision scheme?
What do you mean by 'with consideration' for the existing July provision scheme?0 -
One last thing to add, those that are saying that some of your kids have heard nothing from their teachers. You need to contact the principal immediately as this isn’t acceptable. (I’m saying this as a teacher)0
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If you took the time to read my reply correctly you would see that I went about doing my work, videoing myself and proceeded to upload - file is too large to upload from home internet.
Of course I have considered the alternatives. Your suggestions aren’t very inspiring. it’s the internet is the problem the interruptions are just funny at this stage. My home situation does not lend itself to live teaching end of.
You make it sound like I don’t care. The point I am making is we are all coping as best we can. Your attitude of well your not doing good enough is why I became a teacher in the first place. I would never approach a student in the manner you have.
Such a condescending tone and a disregard for personal situations is why I wouldn’t never sit beside you in the staff room. I’m teaching a very long time and I would always put myself out to help students.
You seem to think some teachers are doing nothing or making up excuses when it’s the reality of their life situation. Same for students if they are not completing the work I will always take into consideration their home situation.
One alternative to teachers that are unable or unwilling to teach would be for them to sign on. I wonder how many issues would disappear if that was the case.0 -
See my post above....already did and no reply there either
To be honest if you can’t even get a reply from the Principal then I would suggest that the problem is the school in general. I know if our principal got an e-mail like that she would be in touch with us asking about it and would be back on to the parents.0 -
To be honest if you can’t even get a reply from the Principal then I would suggest that the problem is the school in general. I know if our principal got an e-mail like that she would be in touch with us asking about it and would be back on to the parents.
Only thing is schools have been on Easter holidays for last two weeks. If you can't get in touch tomorrow I'd try contact the Board of Management0 -
National school (DEIS) teacher here. My own experience is that it is very difficult to get kids from my school to engage. I teach maths to 85 kids. The tasks for today, which are just revision and include no new learning, were completed by 18 pupils. This was actually an improvement.
It doesn't take me very long to set the tasks but I do check in constantly throughout the day on Google Classroom to provide feedback and 'chat'. In my free time, and there's plenty of it, I'm attempting to overhaul the long term plans for maths across the school. I can honestly say that the engagement from the vast majority of the teachers in my school is very good, it's just difficult to get the majority of the kids to engage consistently.
My own son receives work to be done from his school by e-mail or the seesaw app. This is done weekly and there is also some contact/feedback from the teacher throughout the week. I'm fine with this.
Some posters have suggested that teachers should be willing to go back to school during the summer if we have reached a stage where it is safe to do so. Again, I'm fine with this (like the majority of teachers, i can't wait to get back).
My question is how we can improve things for the pupils and their parents in the meantime (would be genuinely grateful for any novel suggestions).
Thanks0 -
I have been reading this and was resisting answering any questions because generally there have been at least 3 teacher bashing threads in the last month and some of them have been vicious. I expect to be lynched here too.
When the closure was announced it took the teachers by surprise, nothing was confirmed and suddenly we we being kicked out and the building closed at 630 that evening. The staff were in shock. We were worried about how to get work to the kids and how the kids with SNAs would cope and how long we would be shut for. We took turns covering classes while the photocopier were under siege. I sent home 4 weeks of photocopying with the kids mainly in English and Maths. it was a knee jerk reaction.
I also panicked as I didnt have proper internet modem broke was and didnt have a laptop so I bought both as I had to be able to teach somehow.
The following week there were meetinge to discuss what to do and it was decided online classes for senior students and work sent home via email to other younger kids because it was felt they would not be able to sit for long at a computer and typing would be an issue and would need lots of supervision. I am in a school of about 70 teachers and all are doing their best and working their asses off.
So by the end of that week we were teaching via google classroom. The work is uploaded every night for the following day and is also sent by email. I am online most of the day so the kids can send a msg and I answer. I write step by step guides as I would say them if they were in the room, to everything I want them to do and also add videos from various educational sites to compliment the work. I was online today from 8am untiil 730 then I got dinner. 2 weeks ago I was getting up at 5am to be online as some kids were on early as parents needed laptops to wfh but they soon stopped as they were wrecked.
The first kid didnt log in until around 11ish today and a number of kids haven't logged on at all despite me contacting them since this started. I did tell the parents who are stressed that in law they are the primary educators and can decide what work is to be done. Something I rely on for myself as to drag my own chldren to get work done is like getting blood from a stone. I ended up teaching them over Easter to keep up with the work and I am still behind with them.
I sent messages to the kids and we had a lot of q&a, some of it even about the work, they want to know how me and kids getting on and I tell them as I ask about their lives and its what we did in class so it a small bit of normality. My own kids didnt get a look in till after dinner and we finished at 940 I will now be planning correcting and returning the work for tomorrow. Their teacher sent an email a few weeks ago and nothing else. Then last night an email of work and loads of contact online today.
I have worked in a variety of professions before becoming a teacher and been called a liar on Boards because I have a varied life experience. I dont lie about what i have done, I have no need to. Every profession has good and bad, good nurses bad nurses, bank officials, office workers etc
Every school is different working at different speeds and parents are coping as best they can so all we can be is respectful to each other, as we are examples to our kids and they learn from us.
Be kind to ourselves and each other0 -
A little bit of perspective for primary school parents who are worried that their children’s education will suffer.
During their time in primary school, children will be at school potentially for 1,464 days. Even if schools have to remain closed until September, it would account for 4.1% of their time in primary school.
By all means, support your child as much as possible with learning at home but please remember they have probably covered the work already and will more than like cover it again many times.
Family wellbeing and mental health are much more important than falling behind in long division.0 -
I have a child in Primary, and to tell the truth I don't want him stuck to a laptop. He gets his list at the beginning of the week from the teacher, which I write into his homework journal and he ticks off what he's done as he goes. Mixed in with lego challenges, school hub on rte, and bouncing on a trampoline, his day is quite full. I have arranged a few zoom meetups with his friends, where they just played lego and chatted for a while.
My other child is in post primary, and teachers are online - some are doing online classes- which he hates, as there's messing, others email work, send prerecorded lessons, he sends the work back and they correct and send back feedback, and it seems to be working out ok.
I'm a teacher, post primary - I don't do live lessons, I prefer uploading powerpoints - as I can add quizzes, videos, links to etc, and I am aware that not all students can access a laptop at the same time, especially when there is a few kids from the one family in the school. I'm online for my timetables classes to answer questions/give feedback on team chats though, I work in learning support as well, so I do contact students, but mainly students who are not engaging with other subjects, who might need additional support with work, or parents who have children attending the school with special needs- there simply would not be time to contact every student I work with. In the background were still having online staff/department meetings, and there is still other administrative tasks to be done.
No option is ideal, I think every teacher would prefer be in the classroom, if it was safe to do so. If anything this past few weeks is teaching us, is how important physically being in a class is for that teacher/student interaction , as well as the social aspect for themselves.1 -
I took a break from this thread for most of the day. Looking back over it again now two things jump out at me
1. Let’s stop the charade at national school level about sending homework. It’s irrelevant. Some teachers are great but others sending an email once a week is a waste of time. Just close the school and stop the pretence and come up with a plan of how this will work for the new academic year. Could not care less that teachers are getting paid to be on holidays. Exceptional time’s and all of that
2. I assume everyone realises there is no vaccine for SARS or other similar viruses and the likelihood of having one globally available in September is zero. It could be 18-24 months before this is available and maybe never - who knows. So if social distancing is needed to be maintained come September - what then? Efforts need to be put in place now to address this possibility. Now is the time to prepare for this.
Use the time remaining in this academic year to prepare for the next one and write this one off from school work/home work point of view. Write whatever policies are needed, get whatever consent is needed signed etc
But like most, what I don’t want to hear the week before the kids are due back after close to 6 months off is we have no plan or solution on how to handle it.
It’s very likely this challenge will be with us for 12-18 months. Let the teaching profession and Dept of education show us how they can adapt to the challenge and put solid proposals on the table to make this work come September. And until then, let’s call it an emergency and close the schools and be done with it and save us all the hassle0 -
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Gnf, I've been tempted to reply to you several times with some of your remarks, but obviously didn't, but your final post there I 100% agree with in terms of the DES focusing on getting next year in line. I work in a school with 68 members of staff of varying ability, trying to get any sense of consistency or agreement about the best way to do things has been a nightmare, and it's completely down to the DES and their complete abdication of responsibility. They dip in and dip out when it suits and we as a profession are left to pick up the very very sloppy pieces.
I agree with you, some staff members are brutal, some are excellent, most are fine. That's the same for most companies I'd wager if my friends WhatsApp frequency are anything to go by! What I would love is if the DES said "do what you can, we will support you, but we have a solid plan for next year and we want to iron out the difficulties over the summer",leave it with us and your representatives. But they have not come close to doing that, in fact seem to be going out of their way to not do that (see the school already abandoning the jc plan).
It doesn't help that for years teachers had flagged this and requested such systems to be set up and for us to start training in them. Instead we got weeks of "wellbeing training" or local policy writing hours, and so when the a hit the fan there was an element of "we told you so!". Not the ethical thing obviously but I think it'll be the same if we return for the floated "one day a week", and then kids get infected when no actual deep cleaning takes place.
This is a pandemic, we all realise that, and some are trying hard, some are hardly trying, but when we have senior doctors resigning from medical council over proceedings, and teachers en masse raging against the govt lack of planning, please think that maybe the ire should be placed at the DES and not the local school. If absolutely every tesco employee you met was brutal, you would take it up with the brand, not the manager working the night shift?
Hopefully that influences your opinion slightly, because I see you trying to see both sides,but you seem very coloured against one side and maybe that (justifiable in your anecdote!) ire is misplaced?0
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