Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

Wibbs

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

We may never have a vaccine and our lives may be changed forever.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/03/health/coronavirus-vaccine-never-developed-intl/index.html

A safe and effective vaccine could be a while off alright. Treatment options look to be the short and medium term hope and with so many working on that I have high hopes for it.

stephenjmcd

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Spain allowed some workers back about 3 weeks ago and numbers still plummeting. 800 odd cases today and just 50 in Madrid which was one of the hardest hit areas.

Excellent news but in the last few weeks the numbers on weekends have dipped so we'll have to see how they are as the week starts up

What Username Guidelines

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Excellent news but in the last few weeks the numbers on weekends have dipped so we'll have to see how they are as the week starts up

True, good point. It’s still a dip on previous weekends, so hopefully it continues.

Wombatman

The Wuhan lab thing smells like such a frame up.

Sheriff Trump had his man two weeks ago, without any evidence. Two week later the evidence had been manufactured discovered.

It's like the Weapons of Mass Destruction lie recycled.

Beasty

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Looks like this will be a long one. There's usually a good recap on Reddit after these things so I'll check that later instead. I'll repost here if there is

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Which sub on Reddit?

It usually just regurgitates the related press release, and it's as easy just to go the gov.ie website and view it directly....

iguana

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

We may never have a vaccine and our lives may be changed forever.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/03/health/coronavirus-vaccine-never-developed-intl/index.html

Well that's a bullshït article. Take this for example, "We've never accelerated a vaccine in a year to 18 months," Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, tells CNN. "It doesn't mean it's impossible, but it will be quite a heroic achievement." And yet in 2009, the H1N1 vaccine was created, tested and mass vaccination began in 5 months. Yes, the creation of a flu vaccine is different, because it's an adaptation of an existing flu vaccine but clinical trials and mass production were all done and completed in that time.

GM228

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Strange day and time for a briefing surely? Or have they done this before?

Regular on a Sunday morning.

DebDynamite

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Spain allowed some workers back about 3 weeks ago and numbers still plummeting. 800 odd cases today and just 50 in Madrid which was one of the hardest hit areas.

Also, are Spain still including the results of the antibody tests with confirmed cases?

cloudatlas

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-scientists-conclude-people-cannot-be-infected-twice-11981721

Coronavirus: Scientists conclude people cannot be infected twice :pac:

What Username Guidelines

DebDynamite wrote: »

Also, are Spain still including the results of the antibody tests with confirmed cases?

They are, that’s the figure you’ll see on worldometers, but the ~800 is for PCR tests.

DebDynamite

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

They are, that’s the figure you’ll see on worldometers, but the ~800 is for PCR tests.

Ah, I see. Thanks!

ChelseaRentBoy

iguana wrote: »

Well that's a bullshït article. Take this for example, "We've never accelerated a vaccine in a year to 18 months," Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, tells CNN. "It doesn't mean it's impossible, but it will be quite a heroic achievement." And yet in 2009, the H1N1 vaccine was created, tested and mass vaccination began in 5 months. Yes, the creation of a flu vaccine is different, because it's an adaptation of an existing flu vaccine but clinical trials and mass production were all done and completed in that time.

Just goes to show how completely untrustworthy CNN are.

Good spot.

Speak Now

GT89 wrote: »

How many people are dying of Covid 19 and at the time of death the only illness they have is Covid 19? You know like healthy people with no medical complications my guess that figure in this country would be less than 50 perhaps even less than 20. That would be the true death rate. The vast majority of people are not dying of Covid 19 they are dying with Covid 19 in their system.

Nonsense! People still clinging onto the underlying condition as a comfort blanket. Plenty of these conditions are manageable, they died because they got covid 19.

nacho libre

stephenjmcd wrote: »

98 currently in ICU as of last night.

Good article in the independent today regarding government and NPHET, seems to be growing unrest of how everything is being handled. NPHET didn't put any dates to the plan that was released the other day that was a government decision.

Well worth picking up the paper for today.

It was fairly obvious putting dates on the plan was a political decision to appease the public and business community

If the phases don't go smoothly, Leo and Simon will start emphasising that we are following the science advice, but their current high opinion poll rating will start to slide if people start to feel things are going awry.

Christy42

Less than 10k cases yesterday for the EU. Just above the day before so pretty good news. Still work to be done but still good.

Turtwig

nacho libre wrote: »

It was fairly obvious putting dates on the plan was a political decision to appease the public and business community

If the phases don't go smoothly, Leo and Simon will start emphasising that we are following the science advice, but their current high opinion poll rating will start to slide if people start to feel things are going awry.

Carrot before the horse. They gave the public something to try to chew on. The dates are dependent on everything going smoothly. Once things start reopening businesses start taking on considerable risk. Infection control procedures will be paramount.

wakka12

Speak Now wrote: »

Nonsense! People still clinging onto the underlying condition as a comfort blanket. Plenty of these conditions are manageable, they died because they got covid 19.

Exactly, hypertension and diabetes are apparently the two biggest risk factors and neither have a huge impact on quality of life or lifepsan if they are correctly treated

owlbethere

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Wouldn't worry about this yet. There's about 40 vaccine programmes running now let's see them start to fail before we begin panicking

This 100%. The team at Oxford seem to be confident in their vaccine so much so that they are planning on production of the vaccine before trials even end and are given the go ahead. This approach will allow the roll out of the vaccine immediately after success with the trials.

timsey tiger

stephenjmcd wrote: »

98 currently in ICU as of last night.

Good article in the independent today regarding government and NPHET, seems to be growing unrest of how everything is being handled. NPHET didn't put any dates to the plan that was released the other day that was a government decision.

Well worth picking up the paper for today.

That 98 figure is a bit bs. I guess the media has an agenda to promote controversy with a view to sell more papers.

98 is confirmed covid-19 cases, there are 22 suspected covid-19 cases, bringing the total to 120.

It's not like the 22 suspected cases are not actually in beds.

podgeandrodge

GT89 wrote: »

The vast majority of people are not dying of Covid 19 they are dying with Covid 19 in their system.

Gynoid wrote: »

Congratulations on both your medical qualification not to mention your epoch-shattering and undoubtedly vastly-researched factual contribution to the quickly evolving scientific canon on the novel coronavirus.

Speak Now wrote: »

Nonsense! People still clinging onto the underlying condition as a comfort blanket. Plenty of these conditions are manageable, they died because they got covid 19.

Interesting article that touches on the "dying with covid" vs "dying of covid" question on fullfacts.org, see bit below, but read FULL article for further clarification on the below point.

On the other hand, you may have heard that some of the people who died “with” Covid-19 did not actually die “from” it, which is true, at least according to the death certificates. Analysis by the ONS found that 14% of the death certificates mentioning “Covid-19” in March did not list the disease itself as the “underlying cause of death”. It also found that deaths from ischaemic heart disease—commonly one of the biggest killers in the UK—were 26% below the average for the month. That could mean that Covid-19 killed some people who were already close to death, but it could also mean that some heart disease deaths were being attributed to Covid-19 incorrectly.



https://fullfact.org/health/covid-deaths/

Ficheall

cloudatlas wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-scientists-conclude-people-cannot-be-infected-twice-11981721

Coronavirus: Scientists conclude people cannot be infected twice :pac:

Well, if this is true, it will be the most important news of the day. Fingers crossed!

s1ippy

cloudatlas wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-scientists-conclude-people-cannot-be-infected-twice-11981721

Coronavirus: Scientists conclude people cannot be infected twice :pac:

So what the plan for getting all the recovered people back to work ASAP?

Turtwig

owlbethere wrote: »

This 100%. The team at Oxford seem to be confident in their vaccine so much so that they are planning on production of the vaccine before trials even end and are given the go ahead. This approach will allow the roll out of the vaccine immediately after success with the trials.

Being realistic however any vaccine being researched right now needs it's production chain planned too. Bill Gates was right imo. Governments need to start building the manufacturing capabilities now. It'll be too late when the vaccine is found. Need to start planning for scaling production sooner rather than later.

The Oxford group are just trying to cover as many bases as possible. Producing 1,000,000 units doesn't mean they're 100% their vaccine will work. Rather, it's a bare minimum necessity should it work.

jackboy

owlbethere wrote: »

This 100%. The team at Oxford seem to be confident in their vaccine so much so that they are planning on production of the vaccine before trials even end and are given the go ahead. This approach will allow the roll out of the vaccine immediately after success with the trials.

It is fine if they want to take that risk. However, their ‘confidence’ is irrelevant and gives no insight into the chances of the vaccine working. Companies and research labs are endlessly’confident’ when developing new products and most of these products fail.

GT89

wakka12 wrote: »

That is absolutely false
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-warning-as-major-study-finds-most-elderly-victims-would-not-have-died-otherwise-11980675

Death rate is not calculated based on it's effect on young healthy people only. A huge proportion of the population have other medical problems

So you are admitting what I'm saying is true basically. It's only killing the elderly and people with under lying health conditions that's the truth. The response to this is completely riddiculous and over exagerated

Kermit.de.frog

owlbethere wrote: »

This 100%. The team at Oxford seem to be confident in their vaccine so much so that they are planning on production of the vaccine before trials even end and are given the go ahead. This approach will allow the roll out of the vaccine immediately after success with the trials.

I suspect we will be hearing about plenty of cures in the next 18 months, none of which come to reality.

iguana

Turtwig wrote: »

Being realistic however any vaccine being researched right now needs it's production chain planned too. Bill Gates was right imo. Governments need to start building the manufacturing capabilities now. It'll be too late when the vaccine is found. Need to start planning for scaling production sooner rather than later.

The Oxford group are just trying to cover as many bases as possible. Producing 1,000,000 units doesn't mean they're 100% their vaccine will work. Rather, it's a bare minimum necessity should it work.

That is the plan with the most promising vaccines though isn't it. Mass production before it's known if they are definitely effective. If they are proven effective, then great we are ready to go. If not they are scrapped. It's a massive waste of money if they have to be scrapped but the time saving if they work is worth so much more that the risk is worth it. We did all this 11 years ago. The turn around on the H1N1 vaccine was so rapid that if the Covid vaccine was as fast, mass vaccines would be starting in a few weeks. Which they won't. But if they are ready in the next few months it won't be historically fast.

Gynoid

GT89 wrote: »

So you are admitting what I'm saying is true basically. It's only killing the elderly and people with under lying health conditions that's the truth. The response to this is completely riddiculous and over exagerated

Well Jesus don't let us stop you a minute longer from going out and getting it and bringing it home. Off ya go.

Ficheall

owlbethere wrote: »

This 100%. The team at Oxford seem to be confident in their vaccine so much so that they are planning on production of the vaccine before trials even end and are given the go ahead. This approach will allow the roll out of the vaccine immediately after success with the trials.

Team A say they are working on a vaccine that they hope will provide a cure.
Team B say they are working on a vaccine that they expect will provide a cure and they are so confident that they want to start producing before it's tested.
To whom do you give the research funding?

mandrake04

Gael23 wrote: »

Has the theory that the virus can be transmitted through human faeces been proven or dismissed?

SARS-CoV-2 uses Angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 as a viral receptor, this ACE2 is primarily found in lungs but also in the intestines. You eat food and picks up the virus going down your throat and it ends in your gut where cells have ACE2. This is why one of the symptoms is diarrhea.

Australia is testing sewage for hot spots, trying track down what suburb its prevalent for community testing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-17/australia-to-test-sewage-for-coronairus-as-testing-net-widens/12156858

timsey tiger

jackboy wrote: »

It is fine if they want to take that risk. However, their ‘confidence’ is irrelevant and gives no insight into the chances of the vaccine working. Companies and research labs are endlessly’confident’ when developing new products and most of these products fail.

Their confidence is worth something, they have expertise in the area, it is certainly worth more then Donald "what have they got to lose" Trump's confidence. Of course it is not a guarantee.

jackboy

timsey tiger wrote: »

Their confidence is worth something, they have expertise in the area, it is certainly worth more then Donald "what have they got to lose" Trump's confidence. Of course it is not a guarantee.

No, it means absolutely nothing until full testing is complete.

bodhrandude

What phase will be when you can start travelling from city to city again?

magic17

cloudatlas wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-scientists-conclude-people-cannot-be-infected-twice-11981721

Coronavirus: Scientists conclude people cannot be infected twice :pac:

All the scaremongers will be gutted

magic17

bodhrandude wrote: »

What phase will be when you can start travelling from city to city again?

July 20th if you're talking over 20km but good luck to them policing that when the daily cases and deaths dramatically fall to near 0 in the next 3 or 4 weeks.

alexv

Less used back roads around towns should be pedestrianized to encourage people to safely exercise while respecting social distancing measures.

This should become a permanent arrangement.

Turtwig

iguana wrote: »

That is the plan with the most promising vaccines though isn't it. Mass production before it's known if they are definitely effective. If they are proven effective, then great we are ready to go. If not they are scrapped. It's a massive waste of money if they have to be scrapped but the time saving if they work is worth so much more that the risk is worth it. We did all this 11 years ago. The turn around on the H1N1 vaccine was so rapid that if the Covid vaccine was as fast, mass vaccines would be starting in a few weeks. Which they won't. But if they are ready in the next few months it won't be historically fast.

It won't be historically and yet it could be.
This is very nuanced. H1N1 was really similar to previous flu strain in 1977 so vaccine production was comparatively easy. That said there were still issues. Swine flu caused narcolepsy in some cases. People who were given the live vaccine were exposed to this potential, albeit at a much lesser risk.

This is a novel virus. Many of vaccines in development are using novel methods. In that context their production and development would be historically fast. One of the biggest positives that may come from this pandemic is the effective development of RNA vaccines. That it took a global pandemic for it happen however should be held as a constant black mark against us.:(

Discodog

Strumms wrote: »

To do a job, which in the instance shown they didn’t have the required resources to do.

Like sending Roger Federer into Wimbledon without a racket.

Maybe if they didn't have so many pointless checkpoints it would free up Gardai to deal with the real issues.

Gael23

Heads on plates time
https://extra.ie/2020/05/03/news/irish-news/everybodys-worst-nightmare-family-given-wrong-body-after-covid-19-mix-up-in-irish-hospital

Stheno

In an interview with the Indo Cillian de Gascun says the plan for widespread antibody testing so they can gauge how widespread the infection is in the community is to start doing it in June

Sorry it's actually the IT https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/cillian-de-gascun-team-sports-are-going-to-be-in-a-very-difficult-position-1.4243847?mode=amp

wakka12

GT89 wrote: »

So you are admitting what I'm saying is true basically. It's only killing the elderly and people with under lying health conditions that's the truth. The response to this is completely riddiculous and over exagerated

No, I replied with actual proof that the vast vast majority of COVID patients died because of the disease, not with COVID. versus your 'hunch' that they would die anyway and just happened to have COVID.

Elderly and having health conditions means relatively little without further clarification, you can have underlying conditions which put you at much greater risk but the diseases themselves have no impact on lifespan in normal circumstances when treated correctly such as hypertension, and you can be elderly and have 20 years left to live under normal circumstances. COVID is taking many years of life from these groups of people

Turtwig

iguana wrote: »

That is the plan with the most promising vaccines though isn't it. Mass production before it's known if they are definitely effective. If they are proven effective, then great we are ready to go. If not they are scrapped. It's a massive waste of money if they have to be scrapped but the time saving if they work is worth so much more that the risk is worth it. We did all this 11 years ago. The turn around on the H1N1 vaccine was so rapid that if the Covid vaccine was as fast, mass vaccines would be starting in a few weeks. Which they won't. But if they are ready in the next few months it won't be historically fast.

It won't be historically and yet it could be.
This is very nuanced. H1N1 was really similar to previous flu strain in 1977 so vaccine production was comparatively easy. That said there were still issues. Swine flu caused narcolepsy in some cases. People who were given the live vaccine were exposed to this potential, albeit at a much lesser risk.

This is a novel virus. Many of vaccines in development are using novel methods. In that context their production and development would be historically fast. One of the biggest positives that may come from this pandemic is the effective development of RNA vaccines. That it took a global pandemic for it happen however should be held as a constant black mark against us.:(

yew_tree

alexv wrote: »

Less used back roads around towns should be pedestrianized to encourage people to safely exercise while respecting social distancing measures.

This should become a permanent arrangement.

That’s one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen. Every back road has homes and farm land along them...are you gonna stop people driving to their homes and farmers to their land? You didn’t think that one out.

ChelseaRentBoy

Gael23 wrote: »

Heads on plates time
https://extra.ie/2020/05/03/news/irish-news/everybodys-worst-nightmare-family-given-wrong-body-after-covid-19-mix-up-in-irish-hospital

You've never made a mistake ?

yogmeister

cloudatlas wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-scientists-conclude-people-cannot-be-infected-twice-11981721

Coronavirus: Scientists conclude people cannot be infected twice :pac:

No they don't. They conclude they haven't relapsed.

Plumbthedepths

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

You've never made a mistake ?

I've put colours in with whites, is my mistake in the same category as giving a grieving family the wrong body?

Ficheall

Gael23 wrote: »

Heads on plates time
https://extra.ie/2020/05/03/news/irish-news/everybodys-worst-nightmare-family-given-wrong-body-after-covid-19-mix-up-in-irish-hospital

Head photoshopped into lab for some reason..

Fann Linn

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

You've never made a mistake ?

That's some mistake.

Sincerest sympathies to deceased family.

alexv

yew_tree wrote: »

That’s one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen. Every back road has homes and farm land along them...are you gonna stop people driving to their homes and farmers to their land? You didn’t think that one out.

I've walked plenty of stretches of road in Ireland with not one residential or farm entrance. Presumably you'd have no objection to closing those off to traffic?
Speaking of farms, it's about time Ireland adopted a measure similar to Sweden's freedom to roam principle.

https://visitsweden.com/what-to-do/nature-outdoors/nature/sustainable-and-rural-tourism/freedomtoroam/

Plumbthedepths

alexv wrote: »

I've walked plenty of stretches of road in Ireland with not one residential or farm entrance. Presumably you'd have no objection to closing those off to traffic?
Speaking of farms, it's about time Ireland adopted a measure similar to Sweden's freedom to roam principle.

https://visitsweden.com/what-to-do/nature-outdoors/nature/sustainable-and-rural-tourism/freedomtoroam/

I've ran marathons all over Ireland most of them are on quite country roads yet every single road I ran on had houses or field entrances, where are these roads you have walked that someone just decided to lay for no purpose?