€1 on price of a pint could be the way out for pubs

paw patrol

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Society changes all the time. When you put the timescale over centuries , then it becomes clear that things can change in the short term - which can last years or decades.

Of course things will change after Covid. Unless we get a vaccine, lots of things will change.

lets agree to disagree.

Sure we'll see small changes like probably sanitiser everywhere and more cleaning.
I recognise places like hospitals and nursing homes will probably have big changes.
but I can't see much changes for normal societal behaviour and that includes pubs.

LeinsterDub

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We should get away from thinking alcoholism is something to be celebrated and an inevitable disease in Ireland.

This is not true, it's never been true.

It's a fault in our culture.

Everytime some important person visits for some reason they have to be photographed with a pint of Guinness. Our biggest tourist attraction is a private distillery. Everyone needs to visit a pub. Everything has to be associated with alcohol.

It does not need to be that way imo.

It's odd we never hear about Germany's drink problem or South Korea's perhaps it's because their licensing laws aren't about maximizing production to beat the Kaiser?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita
https://www.euronews.com/2017/05/17/which-eu-state-is-the-world-s-heaviest-drinking-country

magma69

Deleted User wrote: »

"I'm alright and therefore everyone else will be too"

Boards.ie summed up in a quote.

italodisco

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It's odd we never hear about Germany's drink problem or South Korea's perhaps it's because their licensing laws aren't about maximizing production to beat the Kaiser?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

Irrelevant, we are dealing with Ireland and our issues.

It doesn't matter if other countries are just as bad or worse, its not an excuse.

Tazz T

The easiest way to give the pubs back a €1 on a pint is to reduce the excise rate, especially on wine which is the highest in Europe.

LeinsterDub

italodisco wrote: »

Irrelevant, we are dealing with Ireland and our issues.

It doesn't matter if other countries are just as bad or worse, its not an excuse.

The contex matters to actually decide if we have an issue with drinking too much. We seem to be very much in the middle.

El_Duderino 09

paw patrol wrote: »

lets agree to disagree.

Sure we'll see small changes like probably sanitiser everywhere and more cleaning.
I recognise places like hospitals and nursing homes will probably have big changes.
but I can't see much changes for normal societal behaviour and that includes pubs.

Yeah, more hand sanitiser and social distancing

Akabusi

We are all going to have less money to spend after this. If you are lucky enough to get through this with your job and salary intact that's great but you will be paying a lot more tax. People will have less disposable income and the pub will be well down the list of priority on where to spend it. Even before this kicked off, my time in the pub had become less and less. It was just too much hassle with getting to and from the pub and organising babysitters, so much easier to sit at home with Netflix and a few bottles of craft beer at half the price of a pint. Adding another Euro to the price of a pint is not in any way the answer.

Geuze

Tazz T wrote: »

The easiest way to give the pubs back a €1 on a pint is to reduce the excise rate, especially on wine which is the highest in Europe.

Excise on beer in Ireland is 22.55 cent per liter per cent of alcohol, so it's 53.8 cent for a pint of 4.2% beer.

https://revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/alcohol-products-tax/alcohol-products-tax/index.aspx

Excise on beer in the UK is GBP 19.08 pence per liter per cent of alcohol, so it's 45.5 pence for a pint of 4.2% beer.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowance-excise-duty-alcohol-duty/alcohol-duty-rates-from-24-march-2014

So the excise rates are very close.


Yet, pint of beer can be bought in a pub in Greater Manchester for GBP 1.34, and in many pubs for 2.00-2.50.

The main reason for expensive beer in Irish pubs is not excise rates.

It is the brewer's dominance, their high prices, massive rents, and huge profit margins.

MarkR

I saw an article yesterday saying that alcohol sales were up significantly on the same week last year. Then I started to wonder, are we drinking more (I am!), or are we just drinking more at home? Similar to take aways, I haven't had any in weeks. Still getting fat, but that's my fault! :-)

Saying that, If I was to go out to a pub, adding a euro onto a pint would probably annoy me. Even though logically, it'd cost me maybe a fiver in a night? 10 add on for a meal is a bit much, I'm sure most people would feel that's double tipping really.

Eating out and drinking in pubs is an expensive luxury. A lot of businesses are going to go to the wall on this one, and we're going to see a contraction on the variety of goods and services available for a while, even when we are allowed out...

begbysback

Alcohol sales have transferred from the pubs to the off licenses, fairly normal I’d assume as people will still drink, Ireland like a lot of other countries has an alcoholism problem but no more than others. The reality is there are a lot of people self isolating who don’t use the internet, and would be really bored at this stage of quarantine- few scoops would be the only relief they have.

troyzer

MarkR wrote: »

I saw an article yesterday saying that alcohol sales were up significantly on the same week last year. Then I started to wonder, are we drinking more (I am!), or are we just drinking more at home? Similar to take aways, I haven't had any in weeks. Still getting fat, but that's my fault! :-)

Saying that, If I was to go out to a pub, adding a euro onto a pint would probably annoy me. Even though logically, it'd cost me maybe a fiver in a night? 10 add on for a meal is a bit much, I'm sure most people would feel that's double tipping really.

Eating out and drinking in pubs is an expensive luxury. A lot of businesses are going to go to the wall on this one, and we're going to see a contraction on the variety of goods and services available for a while, even when we are allowed out...

This is the nub of the issue. Restaurants and pubs are already priced like an occasional indulgence. Similar to how it's really expensive to go to the cinema if you bring kids, get sweets and popcorn etc.

But historically, pubs and restaurants were somewhere you'd go several times a week and their numbers still reflect that popularity.

Something has got to give, they are far too numerous to survive as a luxury experience. A lot of them are going to go to the wall and maybe that's not a bad thing.

Eric Cartman

Geuze wrote: »

Excise on beer in Ireland is 22.55 cent per liter per cent of alcohol, so it's 53.8 cent for a pint of 4.2% beer.

https://revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/alcohol-products-tax/alcohol-products-tax/index.aspx

Excise on beer in the UK is GBP 19.08 pence per liter per cent of alcohol, so it's 45.5 pence for a pint of 4.2% beer.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-and-allowance-excise-duty-alcohol-duty/alcohol-duty-rates-from-24-march-2014

So the excise rates are very close.


Yet, pint of beer can be bought in a pub in Greater Manchester for GBP 1.34, and in many pubs for 2.00-2.50.

The main reason for expensive beer in Irish pubs is not excise rates.

It is the brewer's dominance, their high prices, massive rents, and huge profit margins.

Pubs themselves arent making huge margins on a pint, its why the price of soft drinks and snacks are so high

storker

893bet wrote: »

Raise prices or cease trading are likely hoods.

I'd say raise prices and (shortly afterwards) cease trading might equally be a likelihood.

subpar

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Pubs themselves arent making huge margins on a pint, its why the price of soft drinks and snacks are so high

Brewers share of the price of a pint is approx 30%. Of the the 3 constituents that make up the price to the customer the Brewers share is the smallest.

gormdubhgorm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I feel not closing off licenses was a real missed opportunity to lance the boil of alcoholism in Ireland.

Yes, some would have gone mad but still would have been worth it imo.

I'm not bothered either way on the pubs. Personally, I find everywhere much more pleasant at the moment, without drunks all over the place.

KungPao wrote: »

...and supermarkets to stop selling alcohol too? There’d be actual riots and looting!

We don’t live in Riyadh.

They still sell alcohol in the likes of riyadh underground for the foreigners.

https://stepfeed.com/we-talked-to-people-who-drink-illegally-in-saudi-arabia-and-kuwait-9372

The poster is right though Ireland does have a problem with drink. It is Ireland's blind spot socially acceptable manner of excess and stupidity. I mean we laugh at the yanks and thier guns everywhere - thier blind spot. But think it is only a bit of craic when we see drinking to excess, and those who do not partake are 'dry ****es'.

I always think if someone drank 10 pints of alcohol it is viewed as a great night out. But when you think about it, if someone drank 10 pints of milk on a binge you would think it was a bit odd!

saabsaab

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How about we move pubs outside. They should be all doing up their outdoor spaces now ready for a summer under the stars.

Some are, hope the weather co-operates.

Akabusi

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They still sell alcohol in the likes of riyadh underground for the foreigners.

https://stepfeed.com/we-talked-to-people-who-drink-illegally-in-saudi-arabia-and-kuwait-9372

The poster is right though Ireland does have a problem with drink. It is Ireland's blind spot socially acceptable manner of excess and stupidity. I mean we laugh at the yanks and thier guns everywhere - thier blind spot. But think it is only a bit of craic when we see drinking to excess, and those who do not partake are 'dry ****es'.

I always think if someone drank 10 pints of alcohol it is viewed as a great night out. But when you think about it, if someone drank 10 pints of milk on a binge you would think it was a bit odd!

There is no enjoyment in drinking 10 pints of milk, so yes that would be odd. There is huge enjoyment in drinking 10 pints of beer.

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

when we see drinking to excess, and those who do not partake are 'dry ****es'.

I always think if someone drank 10 pints of alcohol it is viewed as a great night out. But when you think about it, if someone drank 10 pints of milk on a binge you would think it was a bit odd!

Still remember from all these years ago the notices offering student accomodation on the Students Union ending with the statement

"And NO DRYAR5ES!!"

GazzaL

Captcha wrote: »

People will realise that drinking & eating at home means they save a fotune... When you get used to that, it will be hard to waste money like we did in the past again out of laziness or habits.

How many people will be good at cutting hair, or "good enough" to save 20 euros per cut?

**** all by the looks of it.

gormdubhgorm

Akabusi wrote: »

There is no enjoyment in drinking 10 pints of milk, so yes that would be odd. There is huge enjoyment in drinking 10 pints of beer.

Is there though? The hangover the day after the lost hours, the damage to the liver long term, blotchy skin, red faced (premature aging of the face) dehydration. The sh!ts. Weight gain, beer bellies. Yeah it's great craic alright. Not to mention the expense on the pocket.
Oh and you and throw in an unplanned pregnancy or two while you are at it. Violence, fights over nothing outside the chipper. Crowded A and E's at the weekend.

Great craic, great night lads.

saabsaab

There has been a move away from pubs for several years and due to the crisis more are drinking at home.

As this ends, whenever that is, it won't be back to normal and many who won't or can't adapt to the new normal will go bust. Adding a euro to the drink in most pubs around then would be suicidal for them.

silver2020

People are throwing loads of ideas out there for a quick recovery, yet that clickbait website only publises one because that's what get the offended "offended" and fools to click on their story.

Akabusi

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Is there though? The hangover the day after the lost hours, the damage to the liver long term, blocthy skin, red faced, dehydration. The sh!ts. Yeah it's great craic alright. Not to mention the expense on the pocket.
Oh and you and throw in an unplanned pregnancy or two while you are at it. Violence fights over nothing outside the chipper. Crowded A and E's at the weekend.

Great craic, great night lads.

God, just what have you been drinking?

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1252193787436314624

Leo says no

While I wouldn't get unduly worked up on either an additional euro on a pint or a tenner tax on my meal, simply because I just don't frequent pubs enough, I think this is a bit of a red herring overall because:

1. Due to continued curtailment of visitors to Ireland, pub numbers overall are going to be down but they will still have the same overheads to pay

2. An awful lot of young people support the pub industry more-so than older people who are in the midst of raising families- but young people need money to go to pubs, and with less seasonal/temporary jobs available to them, they'll have less money to spend.

3. If social distancing is imposed in pubs, many (especially the massive super-pubs that pack em in in the cities) just won't open because again, their overheads just won't allow it- remember swing-gate? It hasn't gone away you know- public liability insurance was a big bug bear before Covid 19- rents, insurance, rates etc will all have to be pushed way down if re-opening a pub in 2020 is to be a sustainable business-

relying on 1 euro a pint or an additional 5 euro for a steak&kidney pie and chips just won't pay the bills.

Plumbthedepths

Things I learned from this thread
1. Alcohol sales have increased in Off licenses, amazing. Not really since every pub in the country is closed.
2. At least 3 posters would like to use the present pandemic to push their own moral agenda on others.

gormdubhgorm

saabsaab wrote: »

There has been a move away from pubs for several years and due to the crisis more are drinking at home.

As this ends, whenever that is, it won't be back to normal and many who won't or can't adapt to the new normal will go bust. Adding a euro to the drink in most pubs around then would be suicidal for them.

Plus boards.ie seems to be very urban in outlook. Those down the country have had to stop going to pubs because of the drink driving laws. No handy transport there.

All in all though the country would be far better off if they had a normal attitude with alcohol. More and more I have met people who do not drink by choice. And never have.

roverjoyce

A solution would be for a base price for a pint
Say €4 for porter

Pubs can go above this or below it but off licenses cannot sell a can/unit below this

So a can in the off license will be at a minimum €2.80

WE have to take drink out of the home and eventually get people to go out and spend money and interact with people again

LeinsterDub

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus boards.ie seems to be very urban in outlook. Those down the country have had to stop going to pubs because of the drink driving laws. No handy transport there.

All in all though the country would be far better off if they had a normal attitude with alcohol. More and more I have met people who do not drink by choice. And never have.

Normal like middle of the road in terms of alcohol consumtpion in Europe sort of normal?

gormdubhgorm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Things I learned from this thread
1. Alcohol sales have increased in Off licenses, amazing. Not really since every pub in the country is closed.
2. At least 3 posters would like to use the present pandemic to push their own moral agenda on others.

It is not a 'moral agenda' it is a realisation for Irish people who drink to excess that is not great craic and should not be accepted as the norm.

I remember years ago when I was at the GP she asks me what I would drink during a night out three four pints says I. Thinking it was nothing. But the medical profession class over three pints as binge drinking!

Pkiernan

We should support our pubs and restaurants at this time.

They've always strived to give their customers some of the best deals in Europe.

Now its our turn to take care of them....

El_Duderino 09

Akabusi wrote: »

There is no enjoyment in drinking 10 pints of milk, so yes that would be odd. There is huge enjoyment in drinking 10 pints of beer.

Yeah, milk doesn't get you high so it would be weird. Likewise if someone smoked 20 cigarettes made of leaves from the garden, that would be weird.

whomitconcerns

corks finest wrote: »

Do whatever they do in Romania and several other EU countries as the local wage differs greatly compared to the visiting tourists, different prices for tourists

Just for clarification...they dont do that in Romania (or anywhere else in Europe that I have been) Cuba is in fact the only country I can think of that does that institutionally.

Atlantic Dawn

roverjoyce wrote: »

A solution would be for a base price for a pint
Say €4 for porter

Pubs can go above this or below it but off licenses cannot sell a can/unit below this

So a can in the off license will be at a minimum €2.80

WE have to take drink out of the home and eventually get people to go out and spend money and interact with people again

Why not then also increase the price of meat in retailers to match what it costs in a restaurant too?

gormdubhgorm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Normal like middle of the road in terms of alcohol consumtpion in Europe sort of normal?

Well my father and mother went over and visited distant relations in America. A young fella was having a wedding. They decided to have NO drink at it. Even my father (not much of a drinker was surprised at this).

But the real cultural shock for my mother was the Groom was presented with a gun at the end as present.

The whole story brought home to me the difference cultural acceptance, and what is considered the norm.

On continental Europe they can have a glass of wine with a meal and stop there. In Ireland the culture is drink till you drop - ha ha fair play etc. So it would be a good idea to have a cultural change.

Strumms

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Why do we need to save pubs and restaurants? As you said, they were closing down before Covid, so maybe they were on the way out anyway. Maybe we could lose a quarter of the pubs and restaurants and the rest could be profitable.

People are more conscious of the food they eat and more people are interested in cooking and drinking at home because its so much cheaper. Young couple saving for a house or saving to start a family? Then you have no money for nonsense like restaurants.

If we need to invest government money in keeping businesses afloat, then backing a dying sector like pubs and restaurants is probably a poor decision.

100% The publicans around the corner from me are multi millionaires. Cant begrudge them at all they run an excellent pub, well five across the city, all busy with excellent levels of comfort, service, friendliness and excellent food and drink, been operating for 30 odd years, nice folks in the main too.

They can suck it up, quite frankly. They are not open but they are not incurring costs in any major way... a lot of the established pubs will be in the same boat. Not making but not loosing. We back people now, the likes of you and me, not millionaires and profit gobblers.

GreeBo

enricoh wrote: »

Government job, probably 300k + benefits a year.
He's good value with brainwaves like that, give him a raise I say!!
Stick on a tourist tax to make up for less tourists while we're at it!

Or maybe a max of €180K?

https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/careers/policies/staff-categories-salary-scales-and-salary-bands.pdf?sfvrsn=12

Facts huh! Who needs 'em?
We all know that everyone with more money than me is a Tat Cat Banker, right?!

LeinsterDub

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not a 'moral agenda' it is a realisation for Irish people who drink to excess that is not great craic and should not be accepted as the norm.

I remember years ago when I was at the GP she asks me what I would drink during a night out three four pints says I. Thinking it was nothing. But the medical profession class over three pints as binge drinking!

You mean these units?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/alcohol-limits-were-plucked-out-of-the-air-332869.html
And the same GP was probably telling you to follow the food pymaid up to recently too

gormdubhgorm

Akabusi wrote: »

God, just what have you been drinking?

It is just the reality of it of the hassle drink causes people. No moderation and gob****es heading off to early houses, or hanging around pubs waiting for them to open.

Or even people who cannot say they had a 'good night' because they were not drinking. There is something pathetic about that as well.

gormdubhgorm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You mean these units?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/alcohol-limits-were-plucked-out-of-the-air-332869.html
And the same GP was probably telling you to follow the food pymaid up to recently too

Yeah would have been around then yeah.

LeinsterDub

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well my father and mother went over and visted distant relations in America. A young fella was having a wedding. They decided to have NO drink at it. Even my father (not much of a drinker was surprised at this).

But the real cultural shock for my mother was the Groom was presented with a gun at the end as present.

The whole story brought home to me the difference cultural acceptance and what is considered the norm.

On continental Europe they can have a glass of wine with a meal and stop there. In Ireland the culture is drink till you drop - ha ha fair play etc.

Yet on continental Europe they are drinking the same amount as us . They must be quare hungry in Europe to have a glass with all those meals

blade1

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Personally, I find everywhere much more pleasant at the moment, without drunks all over the place.

Which city you from,Sodom or Gomorrah?

LeinsterDub

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah would have been around then yeah.

The ones plucked out of no where . Yup we should all base our lifes on random nonsense someone said in the 80's

El_Duderino 09

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not a 'moral agenda' it is a realisation for Irish people who drink to excess that is not great craic and should not be accepted as the norm.

I remember years ago when I was at the GP she asks me what I would drink during a night out three four pints says I. Thinking it was nothing. But the medical profession class over three pints as binge drinking!

Yeah the amount of alcoholic needed to cause harm to the body is pretty small. I think it usually surprises people.

But, it’s the medical community’s job to get the information out there, not to police how much people drink so it's only right that they tell us.

Neames

I think eating out and pubs are expensive enough already.

I'm not a big drinker but when I do go out with the Mrs for a few drinks, I'm shocked at the cost especially when you throw babysitting into the mix.

A bottle of wine, a takeaway or home cooked meal and a movie at home. Much cheaper.

That said, a night out is good for the head and the economy.

saabsaab

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not a 'moral agenda' it is a realisation for Irish people who drink to excess that is not great craic and should not be accepted as the norm.

I remember years ago when I was at the GP she asks me what I would drink during a night out three four pints says I. Thinking it was nothing. But the medical profession class over three pints as binge drinking!

I has a Dr say a few years ago that a few pints like you had are no harm at all but not overdo it. He drank himself but others aren't so forgiving nowadays.

gormdubhgorm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Yet on continental Europe they are drinking the same amount as us . They must be quare hungry in Europe to have a glass with all those meals

The general altitude is not as f**ked up though.



You seem to be trying to justify the binge drinking, 'great craic' culture. My advice would be to have a quick look at A&E at a weekend, and look at the crime rates etc.

LeinsterDub

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The general altitude is not as f**ked up though.



You seem to be trying to justify the binge drinking, 'great craic' culture. My advice would be to have a quick look at A&E at a weekend, and look at the crime rates etc.

I'm not trying to justify anything . I'm saying how come other EU countries drink more than us with less apparent issues. As I've already suggested our licensing laws certainly don't help

gormdubhgorm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah the amount of alcoholic needed to cause harm to the body is pretty small. I think it usually surprises people.

But, it’s the medical community’s job to get the information out there, not to police how much people drink so it's only right that they tell us.

Reading this thread had make me think of a fella who was I used to work with who 'fond of the drink'. In particular every year around the time of Cheltenham (racing) he used to disappear for the week or more. Come back looking wrecked, red faced, gaunt, and withdrawn. The same fella tried to cut back, but ended up dying at a relatively young age in his 50's. The damage was done.