Will the betting shops close permanently after this?

Kermit.de.frog

Following on from the pubs thread what's the thoughts on betting shops not reopening?

Whatever about anything else I despise betting shops because they are positioned to prey on the most vulnerable (normally in the poorest areas and every one of them is beside a pub).

I know some jobs would be lost but i'd happily see them closed.

I think they have been in decline anyway with online gambling etc.

Thoughts? Will they all reopen you reckon?

EDIT: this is not about banning gambling, it's about the shops

Eric Cartman

I wish, they're a scourge and they're placement next to pubs is no accident. Online gambling only with strict monthly limits would be the way forward imo.

Technocentral

They are a scourge, hopefully they will all go to the wall.

Esel

1000/1 they stay closed.

Kermit.de.frog

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I wish, they're a scourge and they're placement next to pubs is no accident. Online gambling only with strict monthly limits would be the way forward imo.

Aye. Often you'll see a Paddy Powers one side and a Ladbrokes the other of any given pub. Quite cynical to say the least.

Chalk McHugh

I have been betting on the football for 20 years or more. I haven't even noticed its gone and have enjoyed the break from it and the lack of stress. I wouldn't be that disappointed to see them close but they'll be back up and running when sport is back and restrictions lifted. The profit margin on all the shops is huge i would imagine. Low cost to operate and making huge money on mugs like me.

kingtiger

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Online gambling only with strict monthly limits would be the way forward imo.

would never work, lots of Tony Soprano types would be licking their lips at that prospect

jack of all

These shops are no addition to any street or town. Problem gambling is a blight on society, getting rid of betting shops might help but online gambling is a bigger problem.

Thedogsbolix

Open in june .

ancapailldorcha

Used to work for one and they're worse than you'd think.

These companies are thoroughly morally bankrupt. They've not compunction whatsoever about preying on vulnerable people. I worked for one before the advent of apps and big data but when I was at it they tracked the bigger customers in the shops. Over the phones, numbers of people they knew bet big would jump the queue.

If the lot go bankrupt, we'll all be better off.

Jim Root

with a bit of luck they'll be gone.

Kermit.de.frog

kingtiger wrote: »

would never work, lots of Tony Soprano types would be licking their lips at that prospect

We can't keep using that argument for doing nothing.

There are things that can be done (assuming some of the shops survive) in the planning system for example, more rules etc.

Long_Wave

Why pick on just the betting shops, what about the national lottery ? One time only some shops sold national lottery tickets but now any shop can sell quick picks and scratch cards.

Eric Cartman

kingtiger wrote: »

would never work, lots of Tony Soprano types would be licking their lips at that prospect

By that logic sure lets just sell heroin in boots. Wont solve it for addicts but will encourage some to seek help and others not to start in the first place

Eric Cartman

Long_Wave wrote: »

Why pick on just the betting shops, what about the national lottery ? One time only some shops sold national lottery tickets but now any shop can sell quick picks and scratch cards.

The new display cabinets having up to 15 varieties of scracth cards on sale are a disgrace, should be like cigarettes, tucked away, no bright colours and a giant warning on the front that your odds of winning are f*ck all .

The normal lottery and euromillions atleast are only twice a week although a system of capping how many entries you can do would be nice

Richard Hillman

No. There is always room for the shops. A lot of people like to gamble but wish to keep betting records off bank statements in case of loan/mortgage applications.

Eric Cartman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No. There is always room for the shops. A lot of people like to gamble but wish to keep betting records off bank statements in case of loan/mortgage applications.

Might that be because its a dangerous vice that results in missed payments on loans a lot...

JohnnyFlash

If the Tote offered fixed odd betting then that might work. Let the bookies ply their trade on track.

Del2005

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We can't keep using that argument for doing nothing.

There are things that can be done (assuming some of the shops survive) in the planning system for example, more rules etc.

The USA has tried banning alcohol and that resulted in organised crime getting extremely powerful. Most gambling is illegal in the USA yet they still have problem gamblers going to illegal bookies. Some drugs are illegal in most countries yet people manage to get high without much effort.

Prohibition doesn't work for human vices so banning book maker shops won't solve peoples gambling problems just like banning drugs does not stop people becoming addicts. Not saying that I know the solution but prohibition has never worked.

kowloon

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Used to work for one and they're worse than you'd think.

Were there many clients you think were money laundering?

osarusan

Once sports are back up and running, people will want to gamble, and somebody will provide a venue for that, legal or not.

We can only hope that problem gamblers, like problem drinkers I suppose, come out of Covid-19 with less of a problem than they had, and thus less of a dependency.

Kermit.de.frog

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No. There is always room for the shops. A lot of people like to gamble but wish to keep betting records off bank statements in case of loan/mortgage applications.

That may be true but i'm not sure it's the best argument for keeping them open :rolleyes:

ArmaniJeanss

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

If the Tote offered fixed odd betting then that might work.

Conceptually it wouldn't be the Tote then. Once you offer fixed odds you can theoretically lose money on any event, and if you lose big on enough events you go bankrupt. So you then need to employ risk managers and traders like the bookies do.
Tote/pari-mutuel systems, because they do pooled betting, can't lose as they just pay back 80% of the money taken in on each event and divide it amongst the winners. But this can't work with the idea of 'offering odds'.

punisher5112

Not a hope they will disappear....

It's the same argument about pubs and they ruin lives....

Yes in some cases they aid it but it's down to personal responsibility and if people can't control themselves then they need to get help.

There should be better practices in place and if people are known to be going through problems or they feel they may have then they should be able to provide options for them.

Kermit.de.frog

Del2005 wrote: »

The USA has tried banning alcohol and that resulted in organised crime getting extremely powerful. Most gambling is illegal in the USA yet they still have problem gamblers going to illegal bookies. Some drugs are illegal in most countries yet people manage to get high without much effort.

No one has mentioned banning gambling. This is about the betting shops.

ancapailldorcha

kowloon wrote: »

Were there many clients you think were money laundering?

Unlikely. It was older men who just sort of loitered around wasting their cash. It might have served as something of a hub for them to congregate in but I don't think the high street is viable in its current form.

Kermit.de.frog

punisher5112 wrote: »

There should be better practices in place and if people are known to be going through problems or they feel they may have then they should be able to provide options for them.

As mentioned they located primarily in poor areas and beside pubs for reasons.

Are you seriously suggesting that betting shops are the right outlets to be regulating the gambling habits of their biggest and most vulnerable customers?

punisher5112

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

As mentioned they located primarily in poor areas and beside pubs for reasons.

Are you seriously suggesting that betting shops are the right outlets to be regulating the gambling habits of their biggest and most vulnerable customers?

Online they must give options.

I'm open to hear any options I was just throwing out an idea.

Like a bar man/woman can choose a patron has had enough, they are responsible for not serving to someone that has had enough and same should be for gambling.

Oh and they aren't just on poor areas they are placed wherever they deem will be busy so of course beside pubs is one of the best options.

mariaalice

How are they gambling now is it all going online?

Online gambling can be tracked which is a good thing and should lead to consequences like difficulty in getting a mortgage which might be enough to deter those who do it for a hobby, although I do think a small amount of betting is harmless.

Those with reall issues need help and problem gambling is just a manifestation of some other issue.

Kermit.de.frog

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Used to work for one and they're worse than you'd think.

These companies are thoroughly morally bankrupt. They've not compunction whatsoever about preying on vulnerable people. I worked for one before the advent of apps and big data but when I was at it they tracked the bigger customers in the shops. Over the phones, numbers of people they knew bet big would jump the queue.

If the lot go bankrupt, we'll all be better off.

Did you ever feel uncomfortable yourself working there at all? Do others?

I know people have jobs to do but personally i'd struggle to work in an environment that sees people throwing their lives away every day of the week.

Mancomb Seepgood

A few months back I read "Tony 10", the book by the guy who ended up in prison for stealing from the post office he managed to fund his gambling addiction. One of the bits that stuck with me was when the Paddy Power app and phone line went down at some stage, Paddy Power himself contacted him to let him know that he could contact PP personally to place any bets he wanted.

It's an amoral business and absolutely can't be trusted to self-regulate. It also gets something of a free ride in the media (particularly RTE) as being a harmless flutter and a bit of fun. Which it is for many people but it also happens to destroy lives.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Did you ever feel uncomfortable yourself working there at all? Do others?

I know people have jobs to do but personally i'd struggle to work in an environment that sees people throwing their lives away every day of the week.

It was my second job so I was somewhat naive at the time. Rural Ireland as well so... You can judge me if you want. It was one of the most depressing places to work. Pubs at least can and often are fun and the staff can certainly get to know some of the punters but there was close to none of that in the betting shop.

I did start to feel uncomfortable as I noticed that people who would previously lay on much bigger bets laid on much smaller ones. One fella even resorted to asking me for money as he'd clearly lost so much.

Kermit.de.frog

I'm not judging, just trying to get a feel for what it's like to work in one of these shops. Can't be the happiest place.

paw patrol

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Following on from the pubs thread what's the thoughts on betting shops not reopening?

Whatever about anything else I despise betting shops because they are positioned to prey on the most vulnerable (normally in the poorest areas and every one of them is beside a pub).

I know some jobs would be lost but i'd happily see them closed.

I think they have been in decline anyway with online gambling etc.

Thoughts? Will they all reopen you reckon?

EDIT: this is not about banning gambling, it's about the shops

you are a funny sort.
You didn't like the pubs in another thread.
Its almost like you'd ban the things you didn't like and to hell with anybody else and what they wanted.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Might that be because its a dangerous vice that results in missed payments on loans a lot...

you are right but so what?
I really hate the way rules/law get set with the problem types in mind rather than the vast majority of people who can control their behaviour to the limit of slightly reckless

punisher5112

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm not judging, just trying to get a feel for what it's like to work in one of these shops. Can't be the happiest place.

Smelly places I found and full of filthy guys mainly....

Sam Hain

punisher5112 wrote: »

Smelly places I found and full of filthy guys mainly....

You're not in the Turkish Baths thread anymore.

punisher5112

Sam Hain wrote: »

You're not in the Turkish Baths thread anymore.

Ha

Brock Turnpike

Long_Wave wrote: »

Why pick on just the betting shops, what about the national lottery ? One time only some shops sold national lottery tickets but now any shop can sell quick picks and scratch cards.

I remember, probably about a year ago, hearing one of the national lottery people on the Last Word getting extremely annoyed about being called betting. That's what they are, and the chances of winning on any of their fans is miniscule. And even at that, their scratch cards only ever seen to reward people with single figure returns when they do win.

As for the being shops. They are utterly disgusting. If the workers could be redeployed elsewhere and the shops kept closed, it would improve the appearance of many shop fronts throughout the country. Not to mention that the firms themselves are absolute scum with absolutely no moral compass.

mariaalice

Its an interesting question of what are the daily drinker alternating between the pub and bookies doing now? they may have spent all their adult life doing so, a lot while holding down a job.

Will it all revert to normal when this is all over.

punisher5112

mariaalice wrote: »

Its an interesting question of what are the daily drinker alternating between the pub and bookies doing now they may have spent all their adult life doing so, a lot while holding down a job.

Will it all revert to normal when this is all over.

Most likely drinking at home and will fall straight back into place ...

4068ac1elhodqr

It's a question of balance, the US is actually opening up the entire gaming market, state by state: due simply to the criminal blackmarket profiting from it, and as a result many $bn's of lost tax revenues.

Strict enforcement and legislation is the way forward. This would include limits of the sheer quantity, position and opening hours of these shops.
More important me thinks, is the absoloute huge amount of TV advertising for pure nonsense stuff like bingo, slots and games that will attract fresh young blood.

The future of shops is doomed anyway, unless there is going to be facilities for niche (anon/crypto) cards, in this coming 'cashless society'.
Already many credit card vendors won't allow them to be used for bets/deposits, soon major debit cards will follow.

Also, welfare payments (+UBI) in the future, will be digital, and may have barring actions on spends for bets/booze/smokes.

Lewis_Benson

Heres hoping

ceadaoin.

Most people who gamble are not addicts. Same as most people who drink aren't alcoholics. If people choose to spend their money on betting, so what? Prohibition does not work, ever, with anything. You can't just ban everything you don't personally agree with.

I never worked in betting shops but I worked for 2 of the biggest bookies for years, starting out taking bets over the phone. The vast majority were people having their weekly 10er soccer accumulator or horse bet at the weekend, and not problem gamblers. Maybe the betting shops will close but online won't. Sure even the US is allowing online sports betting now.

There are 10s of thousands of people employed in the industry but screw all them right?

Feisar

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Did you ever feel uncomfortable yourself working there at all? Do others?

I know people have jobs to do but personally i'd struggle to work in an environment that sees people throwing their lives away every day of the week.

I can't speak for bookies however I was a barman back in the say. Serving alchos or women in with kids in buggies for the day spending the children's allowance didn't bother me.

ancapailldorcha

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Most people who gamble are not addicts. Same as most people who drink aren't alcoholics. If people choose to spend their money on betting, so what? Prohibition does not work, ever, with anything. You can't just ban everything you don't personally agree with.

I've not advocated banning anything.

LuasSimon

Sister used work on bookmakers one time , ANYONE deemed to know their stuff ie back a few winners was to be reported to head off and all their bets rang in . She thinks they used be looking at them on cctv as well . She was told they only want losers ?? Bookmakers want it all one way

Chalk McHugh

LuasSimon wrote: »

Sister used work on bookmakers one time , ANYONE deemed to know their stuff ie back a few winners was to be reported to head off and all their bets rang in . She thinks they used be looking at them on cctv as well . She was told they only want losers ?? Bookmakers want it all one way

Desperate carry on. And isn't it statistically proven that 98% of punters lose over the course of every year. Maybe even 99%? Hard to believe the profit margin for the betting vulture companies.

Guy:Incognito

Eric Cartman wrote: »

By that logic sure lets just sell heroin in boots. Wont solve it for addicts but will encourage some to seek help and others not to start in the first place

By the other side of it, lets ban everything thats bad for people. Lets just assume no one has any self control and all need to be protected from themselves.

Why should all pubs not be permanently shut?

Guy:Incognito

LuasSimon wrote: »

She was told they only want losers ?? Bookmakers want it all one way

Well obviously. What business actually wants to give money away?

no.8

Hopefully. Waste of prime retail space, scourge to society

holyhead

A number of points on betting shops

1. They provide employment.
2. Most people are able to gamble responsibly and enjoy doing so.
3. Gambling might cause an element of social carnage but so does excessive drinking. Close all pubs then?
4. Betting shops help keep town centre units occupied which might otherwise be idle.
5. Closing betting shops doesn't seriously impact on problem gambling due to the internet.
6. Like them or loathe them betting shops can be a place for people to socialise.