Will the betting shops close permanently after this?

LuasSimon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well obviously. What business actually wants to give money away?

They should put a sign up so saying no one is allowed back winners on a reasonably regular basis - Losers and Mugs only .

Gunmonkey

LuasSimon wrote: »

Sister used work on bookmakers one time , ANYONE deemed to know their stuff ie back a few winners was to be reported to head off and all their bets rang in . She thinks they used be looking at them on cctv as well . She was told they only want losers ?? Bookmakers want it all one way

Course they do, bookies are just a lazy casino. Dont even host the games you are betting on, jut watch the neigh neighs on the screen and cough up your cash.

The house always wins!

Brock Turnpike

holyhead wrote: »

A number of points on betting shops

1. They provide employment.
2. Most people are able to gamble responsibly and enjoy doing so.
3. Gambling might cause an element of social carnage but so does excessive drinking. Close all pubs then?
4. Betting shops help keep town centre units occupied which might otherwise be idle.
5. Closing betting shops doesn't seriously impact on problem gambling due to the internet.
6. Like them or loathe them betting shops can be a place for people to socialise.

Clutching at straws with most of them.

ceadaoin.

LuasSimon wrote: »

They should put a sign up so saying no one is allowed back winners on a reasonably regular basis - Losers and Mugs only .

Well yeah, the bookies are there to make money, not give it away. If someone is that shrewd they have ways around these things. There's more than one bookie in town and people willing to put the bets on for them so as not to raise any red flags. They'll get on, don't worry. Trying to get one over on the bookie is part of the fun of it.

holyhead

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Clutching at straws with most of them.

As in you disagree or those who are anti will find arguments against bookies. Can't see where what I have said is not factual. Curious to see how it can be countered.

keynes

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Clutching at straws with most of them.

Moving gambling from shops to online would lead to much greater gambling problems. Losses are much less salient online

Brock Turnpike

holyhead wrote: »

As in you disagree or those who are anti will find arguments against bookies. Can't see where what I have said is not factual. Curious to see how it can be countered.

Ok...

1. They provide employment - Agreed
2. Most people are able to gamble responsibly and enjoy doing so. Not sure this is a legitimate reason for suggesting they should remain open particularly when the minority who can't gamble responsibly isn't a miniscule figure.
3. Gambling might cause an element of social carnage but so does excessive drinking. Close all pubs then? Whatabouterry
4. Betting shops help keep town centre units occupied which might otherwise be idle. I'd argue those units look better empty than they do with garish bookmakers signs
5. Closing betting shops doesn't seriously impact on problem gambling due to the internet. Would like to see evidence for this
6. Like them or loathe them betting shops can be a place for people to socialise If you're socializing in betting shop then you'd want to be taking a good hard look at yourself

Chalk McHugh

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Ok...

1. They provide employment - Agreed
2. Most people are able to gamble responsibly and enjoy doing so. Not sure this is a legitimate reason for suggesting they should remain open particularly when the minority who can't gamble responsibly isn't a miniscule figure.
3. Gambling might cause an element of social carnage but so does excessive drinking. Close all pubs then? Whatabouterry
4. Betting shops help keep town centre units occupied which might otherwise be idle. I'd argue those units look better empty than they do with garish bookmakers signs
5. Closing betting shops doesn't seriously impact on problem gambling due to the internet. Would like to see evidence for this
6. Like them or loathe them betting shops can be a place for people to socialise If you're socializing in betting shop then you'd want to be taking a good hard look at yourself

In relation to num 6 the poster is correct. In one of the six bookies in my area of Dublin there is usually 7 or 8 elderly men who meet up almost every day to chill out, watch the racimg and have a chat. It is a nice big shop with no pub beside it and i enjoy this one the most myself because theirs no drunks and theres a nice friendly vibe to it where a lot of people know each other.

sondagefaux

No comment needed...

Chalk McHugh

sondagefaux wrote: »

No comment needed...

25 free spins not to be sniffed at

Coillte_Bhoy

holyhead wrote: »

A number of points on betting shops

1. They provide employment.
2. Most people are able to gamble responsibly and enjoy doing so.
3. Gambling might cause an element of social carnage but so does excessive drinking. Close all pubs then?
4. Betting shops help keep town centre units occupied which might otherwise be idle.
5. Closing betting shops doesn't seriously impact on problem gambling due to the internet.
6. Like them or loathe them betting shops can be a place for people to socialise.

There is a social aspect to it for a lot of people and its far less dangerous imo meeting your mates and having a few bets than sitting at home on your own gambling online and i say this as someone who only probably frequents a shop once or twice a year at most.

osarusan

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

3. Gambling might cause an element of social carnage but so does excessive drinking. Close all pubs then? Whatabouterry

I don't think it is whataboutery, more like (what the poster thinks is) the logical extent of your argument.



If bookies should be closed because a certain proportion of customers are unable to avail of the service in moderation but end up causing 'social carnage', then why wouldn't that include pubs as well?


General question here - are there any statistics on the proportion of visitors to betting shops that develop a problem, compared to those who visit pubs?

BarryD2

Long_Wave wrote: »

Why pick on just the betting shops, what about the national lottery?

Was thinking this myself the other day when I heard the lottery ads. Know that a proportion goes towards community causes but still a healthy profit for the operators.

What are people betting on now to feed the habit? Poker, blackjack, those sort of online games??

Kermit.de.frog

osarusan wrote: »

If bookies should be closed because a certain proportion of customers are unable to avail of the service in moderation

They are horrible looking places as well to be fair.

As previous poster said for aesthetics alone they wouldn't be missed.

RandomViewer

Long_Wave wrote: »

Why pick on just the betting shops, what about the national lottery ? One time only some shops sold national lottery tickets but now any shop can sell quick picks and scratch cards.

Used to be if there was a shop with the Lotto close you wouldn't get a lotto machine, they are everywhere now

Andrew00

Some of you want the bookie shops closed forever.

How do you think winning punters will get money down then? You can't get any money on a horse online and they restrict ur account after a week.

Winning punters and lads who just like the odd bet need the bookies

nthclare

My grandfather was an old school bookie's goer.

Place a few bets a week and smoke his Carroll's out a red box I remember it well, he'd bring me down to the Waterford's Newross road near Glenmore wed buy crisps and a small bottle of fizzy orange he'd have a glass of Guinness in Penders. We'd have a ham sandwich, the early 80's it was poor time's, but our lives were rich.

A harmless punt, we'd go for a walk look at the Galley then back to see if there's a winner.

risteard7

Who pays the rent, electricity, staff wages?

nthclare

risteard7 wrote: »

Who pays the rent, electricity, staff wages?

I'm not sure really I was too young to be thinking about rent and staff wages etc

I'd say they weren't paid much.

risteard7

nthclare wrote: »

I'm not sure really I was too young to be thinking about rent and staff wages etc

I'd say they weren't paid much.

Sorry I meant it's fairly obvious it's the customers losing money. If people didn't gamble these places would close down.

You are simply not allowed to win on a consistent basis or you will be limited to a small stake. But you can lose every penny you have without a word said

holyhead

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Ok...

1. They provide employment - Agreed
2. Most people are able to gamble responsibly and enjoy doing so. Not sure this is a legitimate reason for suggesting they should remain open particularly when the minority who can't gamble responsibly isn't a miniscule figure.
3. Gambling might cause an element of social carnage but so does excessive drinking. Close all pubs then? Whatabouterry
4. Betting shops help keep town centre units occupied which might otherwise be idle. I'd argue those units look better empty than they do with garish bookmakers signs
5. Closing betting shops doesn't seriously impact on problem gambling due to the internet. Would like to see evidence for this
6. Like them or loathe them betting shops can be a place for people to socialise If you're socializing in betting shop then you'd want to be taking a good hard look at yourself

Point 1 we agree!
Point 2 only adults can place bets. As adults we are responsible for our actions. The state cannot be allowed to regulate to the enth degree whereby we end up living in a nanny state.
Point 3 as other posters have pointed out is not whataboutery
Point 4 empty units speak negatively about a town. Full units means people have a reason to circulate on streets.
Point 5 is that the internet is prevalent in all aspects of life now. Closing betting shops might stop the older folk but the young uns' will be sufficiently tech savvy to get their gambling fix.
Point 6 is very demeaning to all those decent people who like to bet responsibly and have the craic.

4068ac1elhodqr

LuasSimon wrote: »

They should put a sign up so saying no one is allowed back winners on a reasonably regular basis - Losers and Mugs only .

No need to put up a sign, some branches now have FRSystems that allow the all-seeing AI bot, to spot a previous winners face before they even make it to the desk, and alert the staff that 'Monsieur big winluckypants' has just strolled in and to limit any stake. There are ways around this however.

Brock Turnpike

Andrew00 wrote: »

Some of you want the bookie shops closed forever.

How do you think winning punters will get money down then? You can't get any money on a horse online and they restrict ur account after a week.

Winning punters and lads who just like the odd bet need the bookies

I would like to see two things:

1. Betting industry regulated
2. Limits on number of betting shops within certain radius.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

........... although I do think a small amount of betting is harmless.

...............

My Dad would pop into a betting office a few times a week, he'd go to race meetings with me a few times a year. He's places small bets and doesn't chase losses etc.

It's a nice trip out of the house of lots of elderly chaps ........ loads of wasters in betting offices also of course, there's for and against it. More against really. But it's not all bad.

I've had some incredibly laughs in one or two betting offices near home over the years.

Brock Turnpike

holyhead wrote: »

...

Point 1 we agree! *Virtual social distance high five*
Point 2 only adults can place bets. As adults we are responsible for our actions. The state cannot be allowed to regulate to the enth degree whereby we end up living in a nanny state. Bookmakers actively target problem gamblers. And as has been mentioned, won't allow anyone they consider to be a winning punter put in any sorry if bet. They need to be regulated. I agree there is personal responsibility on everyone. However, I think bookmakers contributely hugely to encouraging problem gambling.
Point 3 as other posters have pointed out is not whataboutery We'll have to agree to differ.
Point 4 empty units speak negatively about a town. Full units means people have a reason to circulate on streets.Empty units obviously aren't what people want, but I still think having a poxy looking bookies isn't the way to go about filling the unit. If you're going to have bookies, have them away from the main streets where possible
Point 5 is that the internet is prevalent in all aspects of life now. Closing betting shops might stop the older folk but the young uns' will be sufficiently tech savvy to get their gambling fix. Absolutely people can still be online, as they can even when shops are around. My argument is for getting rid of the shops though. I also believe regulation needs to happen.
Point 6 is very demeaning to all those decent people who like to bet responsibly and have the craic. We'll have to agree to differ again. My original comment was certainly crass though, I will admit it could have been worded far better

ancapailldorcha

holyhead wrote: »

A number of points on betting shops

1. They provide employment.
2. Most people are able to gamble responsibly and enjoy doing so.
3. Gambling might cause an element of social carnage but so does excessive drinking. Close all pubs then?
4. Betting shops help keep town centre units occupied which might otherwise be idle.
5. Closing betting shops doesn't seriously impact on problem gambling due to the internet.
6. Like them or loathe them betting shops can be a place for people to socialise.

1. Sh*tty minimum wage jobs with no concern for staff welfare or safety IMO.
2. Are they?
3. Silly strawman.
4. So would slave markets.
5. I do not advocate banning gambling or closing shops by government dictat. It would be nice if you could stop making up these silly arguments that nobody made.
6. Bollox. They're grim dumps where people go to get screwed out of their money.

Donald Trump

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I wish, they're a scourge and they're placement next to pubs is no accident. Online gambling only with strict monthly limits would be the way forward imo.

Strict monthly limits would work great.

.........because obviously nobody would be able to figure out how to open multiple accounts with different bookies..........................

sanjose1

A friend of mine is a compulsive gambler, I worked out hes dropped more or less a half a million over the years, all in a handful of shops in this medium sized town. They all know his situation obviously, never been refused a bet though

ArmaniJeanss

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

1. Sh*tty minimum wage jobs with no concern for staff welfare or safety IMO.
2. Are they?
3. Silly strawman.
4. So would slave markets.
5. I do not advocate banning gambling or closing shops by government dictat. It would be nice if you could stop making up these silly arguments that nobody made.
6. Bollox. They're grim dumps where people go to get screwed out of their money.

Re number 6.
You're based in the UK aren't you?

I think you are correct if you are referring to the UK betting shops, they are pretty miserable with their rows of FOBTs and fruits.

But Irish shops aren't as bad I think, there's genuinely still the concept of lads meeting up on a Saturday for a few bets and a feed of pints next door, watching the racing and the other sports. Bit of camaraderie and craic, and no real shame element in being in the bookies.

I wouldn’t feel any loss if they never opened again.
Vile business that ruins lives.

ancapailldorcha

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Re number 6.
You're based in the UK aren't you?

I think you are correct if you are referring to the UK betting shops, they are pretty miserable with their rows of FOBTs and fruits.

But Irish shops aren't as bad I think, there's genuinely still the concept of lads meeting up on a Saturday for a few bets and a feed of pints next door, watching the racing and the other sports. Bit of camaraderie and craic, and no real shame element in being in the bookies.

I worked in an Irish one for a few years. They're grim dumps for the most part.

Muahahaha

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The new display cabinets having up to 15 varieties of scracth cards on sale are a disgrace, should be like cigarettes, tucked away, no bright colours and a giant warning on the front that your odds of winning are f*ck all .

I used to live in a working class area of Dublin and was always amazed at the phenomena of women in the local supermarket and their scratchcards. Its far from just a little bit of fun, some of them would be spending 20 or 30 euro on them. Complete madness, from the sh1te odds of one winner in every 9 to the 2 euro 'prizes' :rolleyes: You'd be as well flushing your money down the toilet. Bonus points for the women who couldnt wait to get home and would be scratching their cards standing outside the supermarket. Scratchcards are marketed as a bit of fun but there is definitely a cohort who are addicted to them and waste huge money on them as well.

Mancomb Seepgood wrote: »

A few months back I read "Tony 10", the book by the guy who ended up in prison for stealing from the post office he managed to fund his gambling addiction. One of the bits that stuck with me was when the Paddy Power app and phone line went down at some stage, Paddy Power himself contacted him to let him know that he could contact PP personally to place any bets he wanted..

Yeah and if I remember rightly about that case he stole 1.75 million while doing his job in the local post office. Paddy Power knew at all times that he was a post office worker on around a 30k per year salary and therefore couldnt possibly be gambling 10 or 20k bets without it coming from somewhere illicit. One of his bets was for 40,000 euro on a Norwegian womens football game and Paddy Power didnt even blink, just took the cash. If he didnt gamble for a few days they were ringing him up asking if he was okay, literally preying on him for more money.

Paddy Powers got the 1.75m he stole and washed their hands of it as if they have no responsibility at all despite knowing full well he couldnt afford to gamble those sums. Im all for personal responsibility but there is still something very wrong about that and their role in the matter.

Kermit.de.frog

I'll say one thing for the book makers, they certainly know where their clientel are! I thought the idea was to bring these places up, not down.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/last-moore-street-cafe-may-be-turned-into-bookmakers-1.4257467

Last Moore Street cafe may be turned into bookmakers

In a submission, Tom Holbrook, chairman of the Moore Street Traders Committee, said market stall holders would be “strongly opposed to having a business of this nature in Moore Street”.

He said the street was “overrun with anti-social activity, eg street drinking, contraband, undesirables, loitering etc”. These problems deterred shoppers from “an already suffering street”, he said.

“Moore Street is famous worldwide for its food and character. We feel this proposed business would take away from that.”

Stephen Troy, a Moore Street butcher and a member of the Dublin 1 Business Alliance, said another bookmakers would have a detrimental effect on plans to develop a 1916 commemorative centre on the street.

ILoveYourVibes

Online gambling is way way worse.

I would rather people use the shops it slows them down.

Honestly their business practices are sometimes downright illegal.

whisky_galore

These outlets take more than they ever give back, house always wins. You know a failed area by the amount of bookies and cash for gold type places in them.

sanjose1

sanjose1 wrote: »

A friend of mine is a compulsive gambler, I worked out hes dropped more or less a half a million over the years, all in a handful of shops in this medium sized town. They all know his situation obviously, never been refused a bet though

How much of that half million was money he actually won?

Metroid diorteM

Political parties need to come down on this filth hard. It's a nightmare cancer that needs to be destroyed.

It does so much harm to our country.

double jobbing

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Online gambling is way way worse.

I would rather people use the shops it slows them down.

Honestly their business practices are sometimes downright illegal.

Agreed.

Open 24/7 including when people are full of drink at 2am, there's always a match on somewhere in the world.

Bookies are the ultimate proof of why we will never have a cashless society. Between people hiding their dependancy because they need a clean credit rating to criminals washing profits on low odds bets.

Homelander

I really don't get the outrage over bookies and gambling. I mean, someone just described the industry as a "nightmare cancer" and "filth".

Most people who gamble, gamble responsibly/in moderation. I personally only make a few bets a year and when I do, it's a Hail Mary - I'm 90% guaranteed to lose, but that's part of the fun, especially when you get that rare win.

Yes, people develop gambling problems, same as a minority of people develop drinking problems. That doesn't mean it should be banned and shops shut down.

I also have to laugh at the "they don't care about their staff/customers". As if that's somehow unique to the gambling industry. Hardly breaking news to state that most companies in all sectors don't give a flying **** about anything as long as the $$$ continues to roll in.

PopePalpatine

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'll say one thing for the book makers, they certainly know where their clientel are! I thought the idea was to bring these places up, not down.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/last-moore-street-cafe-may-be-turned-into-bookmakers-1.4257467

“Moore Street is famous worldwide for its food and character. We feel this proposed business would take away from that.”

Who is he trying to kid? Another bookie would fit right into that craphole, it's the sort of place that comes to mind when someone asks you to imagine Dublin in the depths of January.

loyatemu

I've been reading this book recently; guy gambled €10 million over a few years, towards the end he was lumping tens of thousands of euro on outlandish accumulators based on eastern European football and obscure tennis matches, all while stealing the money from his job as a post office manager. Paddy Power knew he was just an ordinary Joe Soap, they did nothing, they even invited him to the Curragh to hang out with JP McManus etc. (interestingly, and unfortunately for him, he was actually a pretty good gambler, made back about 90% of his bets. If he'd been worse he'd have run out of cash much earlier and probably lost interest; and if he'd been a bit better PP would have closed his account).

I've gambled a bit in the past, I'm not trying to get on some high horse, but the big gambling companies are morally bankrupt - their disingenuous TV ads make me very angry.

landofthetree

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Online gambling is way way worse.

I would rather people use the shops it slows them down.

Honestly their business practices are sometimes downright illegal.

When a developer wanted to build a casino on the old Phoneix Park racecourse site one of the big objections was that a person could go in an lose a weeks wages in seconds.

Now ironically they can do it online from their phone.

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2014/0912/643178-casino-plans-for-phoenix-park/

loyatemu

loyatemu wrote: »

I've been reading this book recently; guy gambled €10 million over a few years,...........

I've gambled a bit in the past, I'm not trying to get on some high horse, but the big gambling companies are morally bankrupt - their disingenuous TV ads make me very angry.

Another mad one here.............
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/bookie-stole-590000-and-gambled-most-of-it-269997.html

Boyle's shop manager not lodging the takings or something and wasn't caught for 22 months. Paddy Power allegedly stopped taking bets online......... rumour in Cork was that the Paddy Power shop a hundred yards down road took loads of bets off him also.

"....... he had stolen €590,810.


The chances of the gambling addict repaying any money was described by the detective as zero. He gambled every day, blowing €398,000 with Paddy Power online"

€200k between what was stolen and what was gambled online.

partyguinness

I frittered away €2k (credit card) on Texas Hold'em and Blackjack online about 11-12 years via Paddy Power. I was single earning €60k odd a year and didnt even notice it but still I was so embarrassed I haven't touched any form of gambling since.

A few years ago I spoke to guy (a client at work) who is a computer programmer for online gambling sites- I asked him straight out if these games when you play the computer like Blackjack are rigged. While he didn't confirm it, let's just say he didn't deny it.

chicorytip

Alcohol abuse causes far more societal damage than gambling. Most betting shop punters just like the weekly ten euro flutter and the bit of chat. Online betting has not really caught on here in Ireland.

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

I frittered away €2k (credit card) on Texas Hold'em and Blackjack online about 11-12 years via Paddy Power. I was single earning €60k odd a year and didnt even notice it but still I was so embarrassed I haven't touched any form of gambling since.

A few years ago I spoke to guy (a client at work) who is a computer programmer for online gambling sites- I asked him straight out if these games when you play the computer like Blackjack are rigged. While he didn't confirm it, let's just say he didn't deny it.

Not sure about poker/blackjack but A lot of the online games like one arm bandits etc , it’s already decided if you’re going to win or lose before you even pull the lever- the act of pulling the lever is merely providing you with the illusion of some form of control- the reality is that you’ve none.

partyguinness

chicorytip wrote: »

Alcohol abuse causes far more societal damage than gambling. Most betting shop punters just like the weekly ten euro flutter and the bit of chat. Online betting has not really caught on here in Ireland.

I am not so sure about that. It is silent with no obvious signs and anyone with a card, the internet can gamble 24 hours a day from their bedroom without anyone knowing it.

tastyt

They should definitely tax every bet made like they used to , a 5% tax would take a nice few quid in with absolutely no kick back from the public

I can’t understand why the government don’t do this

partyguinness

tastyt wrote: »

They should definitely tax every bet made like they used to , a 5% tax would take a nice few quid in with absolutely no kick back from the public

I can’t understand why the government don’t do this

You will just get the Bleeding Heart brigade out with "Oh sure you are just punishing the poorest in society"

CrankyHaus

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Who is he trying to kid? Another bookie would fit right into that craphole, it's the sort of place that comes to mind when someone asks you to imagine Dublin in the depths of January.

Should the North inner city be a dumping ground for undesirable businesses like that though?

It's a huge waste of potential to let O'Connell Street and the area around it turn into a wilderness of fast food outlets, bookies and arcades.

In some ways the North inner city has come on a lot: Capel Street and Parnell Street for example. This upward trajectory should be sustained.

Online gambling with a code of conduct enforced by the site/app systems is the way to go: 24hr lockouts for addicts chasing losses, self banning, automated advice for identified addicts etc.