No more cash refunds, Goverment wants to forse a voucher on you.

maestroamado

ted1 wrote: »

Fake news is what you said in post #126
“ The Irish Supreme court have no say as this is European directive and they can change it as the guy on TV used say "just like that”
That’s fake. Simple as that. DIRECTIVES do not trump the a Supreme Court. They are directives that should be written into national law. But are not an actual EU or national law

What i said was the directive has nothing to do with Irish courts as its European directive and can change.

You need to read the post again i think?
I know DIRECTIVES do not trump Supreme court rulings but i am not aware of a Supreme court in Ireland in this instance, i may be wrong?
I'm sure you will know?

Xertz

Seriously! Can we just accept that this legal instrument is a regulation and NOT a directive?

All this discussion of requirements to transpose is nothing to do with the question being discussed in the thread.

The regulation IS law in Ireland and across Europe.

There’s nothing to debate about it.

However, if you read the text of the regulation (I posted it further back up the thread) it does not seem to be applicable to exceptional circumstance beyond the control of the airlines and this is absolutely an exceptional circumstance.

That’s likely why governments are legislating.

The Irish Government and the AG is not going to just pass legislation that’s contrary to European Union law and land itself in some mess in the ECJ.

maestroamado

firemansam4 wrote: »

Ryanair know that something is afoot with regulation changes on this. That's why they have done a complete u-turn on issuing refunds and are now stalling as much as possible.

I just hope that if new legislation is passed allowing airlines to issue vouchers instead of refunds that they make sure the terms for customers are more favourable than what Ryanair are offering up at the moment.

I agree for example EasyJet offer a replacement flight for a year for same person for same route.
So if you buy a flight for Jan for £20 and they cancel you can swap for any flight in the summer.

Xertz

The risk with a voucher is the airline may not exist at the end of this mess.

I would look over their published accounts and financial media coverage on any airline before deciding what to do.

Your best bet may be a credit card charge back or travel insurance claim.

Generally, if the airline goes bust and you paid by credit card you should have some degree of protection via your bank though. If you paid by debit card you may have less ability to press for a chargeback.

In the unlikely event you paid by bank transfer, cheque or cash you don’t have any chargeback power of any type.

When a company goes bust, you’ll typically end up as an unsecured creditor and will be low priority in getting payment in a liquidation / windup. The same applies to voucher holders normally too.

The problem is if everyone goes for a cash refund and that were legally enforced, you could see airlines just becoming insolvent and going bust and then you’ll have to form an orderly line behind Revenue/tax, airports, fuel companies, suppliers, leasing companies, crew owed wages, etc etc etc ... you’d be last on the list.

We are looking at a situation where a significant % of airlines may not survive this at all, certainly not without government bailouts and potentially nationalisation of some aspects of them or protection of key routes and so on.

Xertz

Xertz wrote: »

It looks like

Article 3, Section 3 of the regulation covers this:

“ 3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. “

Most of these things have a “force majeure” or exceptional circumstances clauses.

They’d have absolutely no issue proving the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances beyond their control.

You may be better checking your options with banks / card issuers and travel insurance policies.

How many times do people have to point out that a refund of charges is not compensation before it stops being posted???

Lex Luthor

discussion on Ireland AM shortly

Xertz

Xertz wrote: »

The Irish Government and the AG is not going to just pass legislation that’s contrary to European Union law and land itself in some mess in the ECJ.

Eu law as you point out, is not optional however it's also not enforceable within Ireland on a person until it's passed in national law. No person has ever been charged with an offence under eu law whereas most eu countries are paying fines dished out by the eu for not complying with or enforcing eu law themselves

We are paying multiple fines at any given time (https://www.environet.ie/news/ireland-faces-fines-breaches-eu-legislation)

Mrcaramelchoc

ted1 wrote: »

I posted a screenshot of the mail.
The following confirmation was received

You never answered my question.
So you said you got a refund.Was it a cash into your account/ credit card refund?

maestroamado

Lex Luthor wrote: »

discussion on Ireland AM shortly

Do you mind posting outcome as i cannot watch?
Personally i expect a PR exercise for any changes...

maestroamado

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

You never answered my question.
So you said you got a refund.Was it a cash into your account/ credit card refund?

You will likely be waiting...

Lex Luthor

maestroamado wrote: »

Do you mind posting outcome as i cannot watch?
Personally i expect a PR exercise for any changes...

I’m recording it so won’t get to it til tonight
I’ll post up what they say

Lex Luthor

Guy on radio just said his flight to Lisbon at weekend and Ryanair haven’t canceled flight

Mrcaramelchoc

Nothing new but .........


https://castbox.fm/vb/254134257

Lex Luthor

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Guy on radio just said his flight to Lisbon at weekend and Ryanair haven’t canceled flight

According to the app, both flights on Friday and Sunday morning are still happening but afternoon flights cancelled.

Amsterdam appears to still have flights as well

Ozark2020

Waiting on refunds for two trips with Aer lingus..... comes to €800.00 approx.
Vouchers are no good to me as I am unemployed due to the crisis like so many.
Cash is tight now.
I don’t have much faith that I will get my refund before the end of the year.
Rang BOI card services who advised to wait up to 6 weeks for response/refund before chargeback.

maestroamado

Ozark2020 wrote: »

Waiting on refunds for two trips with Aer lingus..... comes to €800.00 approx.
Vouchers are no good to me as I am unemployed due to the crisis like so many.
Cash is tight now.
I don’t have much faith that I will get my refund before the end of the year.
Rang BOI card services who advised to wait up to 6 weeks for response/refund before chargeback.

Anyone who's work is effected should be refunded in the normal way and let the rest of us wait, the Minister should ask out Irish Airlines to do this.

funkyouup

Just noticed these terms on AIB's for for processing charge backs

If your dispute relates to a booking cancelled by a hotel or airline due to Government Restrictions related to Covid-19 and
they have offered you a credit note towards a future booking we regret that we are unable to request a refund on your
behalf

https://aib.ie/content/dam/aib/personal/docs/our-products/credit-cards/dispute-transaction-form.pdf

paddy19

Ozark2020 wrote: »

Waiting on refunds for two trips with Aer lingus..... comes to €800.00 approx.
Vouchers are no good to me as I am unemployed due to the crisis like so many.
Cash is tight now.
I don’t have much faith that I will get my refund before the end of the year.
Rang BOI card services who advised to wait up to 6 weeks for response/refund before chargeback.

I'd strongly suggest you go to SCC. I posted a quick 5 step guide here.

AIB are refusing Chargeback requests for airline and hotel payments for Covid issues.

"If your dispute relates to a booking cancelled by a hotel or airline due to Government Restrictions related to Covid-19 and they have offered you a credit note towards a future booking we regret that we are unable to request a refund on your behalf."

AIB form attached

There is genuine risk that Heather Humphreys will introduce legislation
that will force you to accept a voucher that will make you wait 12 months
before getting the cash refund that you entitled to in 7 days under EU261 .

limabromac

funkyouup wrote: »

Just noticed these terms on AIB's for for processing charge backs



https://aib.ie/content/dam/aib/personal/docs/our-products/credit-cards/dispute-transaction-form.pdf

They have literally only updated this today ... I sent my letter off yesterday...this looks pretty illegal as it's going against the EU laws of consumer rights... Sheneaky Otters AIB ..

limabromac

paddy19 wrote: »

Thanks for the update funkyouup.

In fairness, AIB have got their act together and are upfront with consumers
the rest of the banks are all over the place.

Heather is legislating,
chargeback is dead,
the regulator is sloooooow...
where you going to go....

Small Claims court!

And Ted seems to be the only person who got a refund...lucky person..

pgj2015

if we want to wait for the refund do we reply to the voucher email saying we still want the refund or do we just ignore the email and the refund will be sent to us when the pandemic is over?, whenever that will be.

firemansam4

pgj2015 wrote:

if we want to wait for the refund do we reply to the voucher email saying we still want the refund or do we just ignore the email and the refund will be sent to us when the pandemic is over?, whenever that will be.

Personally I don't think many of us at all will be getting refunds, Ryanair will delay this now as much as possible until the new legislation comes out meaning they will only have to issue vouchers.

limabromac

It looks like you have to get in the queue again to refuse the voucher and then they put you in the new queue for a refund... like where is the original queue gone that everyone was in initially 5 weeks ago....??

If anyone hears any news from their claim and the scc then let us know...

Personally my bank have fixed it so they wont honour the chargeback even though the rules and the laws haven't changed....

If anyone hears any positive Ryanair news from anywhere then let us know... : )

Mancomb Seepgood

I found my way to their chatbot,which sent me to the refund page,which didn't seem to be available,probably because I had already applied for a refund.

Decided not to put myself through the runaround and submitted it to the small claims court.

Esse85

Hotels who have cancelled the booking offering credit notes to be used within 12 months is an absolute disgrace too.
Irish permanent TSB refused a request from me to do a chargeback to the hotel.

Banks are scum too, have little regard for their customers.

Esse85

Esse85 wrote: »

Hotels who have cancelled the booking offering credit notes to be used within 12 months is an absolute disgrace too.
Irish permanent TSB refused a request from me to do a chargeback to the hotel.

Banks are scum too, have little regard for their customers.

Put it in writing.

kevcos

Probaly better placed on the Ryanair reund thread but its been locked.

Anyway, my RA flight was cancelled so I requested a refund.
Today they send me a link for bloody vouchers and the links and live chat just loop me back to the original refund application page!

Is there a number to call? Or how best to go about it?

Limpy

kevcos wrote: »

Probaly better placed on the Ryanair reund thread but its been locked.

Anyway, my RA flight was cancelled so I requested a refund.
Today they send me a link for bloody vouchers and the links and live chat just loop me back to the original refund application page!

Is there a number to call? Or how best to go about it?

We're all on the same boat. I got confirmation that refund was submitted.

Then this voucher email today. I'l wait it out, the chat bot is sending me to an agent but the chat window is active since this morning and nobody is replying.

kevcos

Limpy wrote: »

We're all on the same boat. I got confirmation that refund was submitted.

Then this voucher email today. I'l wait it out, the chat bot is sending me to an agent but the chat window is active since this morning and nobody is replying.

Really lousy how they have received requests for refunds then completely ignored them.
Ryanair management (at some level) are knowingly leading their customers on a pointless wild goose cyberspace chase, very frustrating.

I fly regularly with them and generally defend their bushiness model but this is p!ssing me off.

loyatemu

will the small claims court actually deal with these though with the possibility of
a) legislation changing the rules
b) 1000s of potential claims clogging up the system