Relaxation of restrictions Part II

thebaz

Ther are people here who seam to nearly enjoy having the lockdown extended , even denying that the lockdown has been pretty well adhered to by nearly 99.5% of the Irish poplulation - That is a gerat achievement - But, we must move on , i believe many people are coming to breaking point - We need some relaxations and acknowledgment of the effort made by the Irish nation - The 100,000 deaths has not occured , the curve has been flattened - but the big risk is to people with other medical conditions that are currently now on hold, the growing mental health crisis , caused by fear of the impending economioc recession to end all recessions - Life must return a little to normality, keep social distancing , but time to start living again, not more doom and gloom from Leo and Simon.

Dickie10

most commentators with sense are now agreeing that we awill be living alongside the virus for a while. time to start lifting restrictions , i think the idea of lesss than 5k at an event before 1st of september tells us all whats in the pipleine for easing restrictions. it will be every 2 weeks more shops opened. hardware and more impratnat placeswill open may6th. barbers/hairdressers may 20th or thereabouts. restaurunts will open mid june i would think. at restricted numbers. if all still goes well pubs two weeks later also restricted . you will have nightclubs open by mid august. over 70s told to cocoon til july and then at thier own risk i would think. can someone tell me whats the diffference in running social distancing in a restaurnt and a pub? surely just tables only in pubs or stools 2 metres apart at bar counter prob no bar sitting. work very easily keep numbers limited to 6 per table as with food.

Kermit.de.frog

thebaz wrote: »

the curve has been flattened

Why has the curve been flattened?

C__MC

Any sign of drew Harris in his shiny yellow coat calling the shots on travel?

It some PR stunt early days, superintendents supervising checkpoints and everything

You then some clowns at the four courts the other day, not a copper to be seen

Roads now much busier, children congregating in housing estates, people congregating in towns

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's a figure of speech, not literal about the tv.

Society faces a moral dilemma, there is no doubt about it.

And there is no easy answers (and anyone who says they have the answer one way or another is a liar).

A balance needs to be found between protecting older and vulnerable people and the rest of society.

As of today with 900+ new cases we are not at that space, so we need to redouble the effort over the next couple of weeks or pay the price. I'd rather the former.

Here is a few of the facts the give some answers as you say there are no answers
1. This virus is effecting the elderly and end of life patients
2.The restrictions may not be effective
3.The restrictions will send us into an economic depression like the 1930s. Now the issue with this fact that posters in favour of the restrictions are missing is that a 1930s depression provides a 1930s heathcare service

normanoffside

For people saying we should stay indoors, actually a new study shows that getting outdoors reduces the risks from the virus

https://www.thejournal.ie/vitamin-d-covid-19-trinity-college-research-5082423-Apr2020/

Jurgen Klopp

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And why is that?

It's not suppressed by the way when you have 936 cases in one day. The highest so far.

Ah come on now, you either are taking this seriously and actually looking up facts or else your wilfully ignoring them. They announced they have started a thorough testing of care homes, the places where nearly half of deaths are, the number of cases is going to balloon from this not reduce

GazzaL

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And why is that?

It's not suppressed by the way when you have 936 cases in one day. The highest so far.

You do yourself a disservice by manipulating figures like that. We didn't test a diagnose 936 cases in one day, they're over a period of time. Professor Nolan said the trend in Ireland was very stable and that there had been no growth for weeks.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0423/1134432-figures-covid-thursday-23-april/

FintanMcluskey

normanoffside wrote: »

For people saying we should stay indoors, actually a new study shows that getting outdoors reduces the risks from the virus

https://www.thejournal.ie/vitamin-d-covid-19-trinity-college-research-5082423-Apr2020/

Its basic immunity. The healthy have been quarantined. Utter madness. Immunity comes from outdoors, obesity comes from indoors

Dickie10

its over lads, sorry to break it to some but the game is up within 6 weeks we wont even be talking about it.

thebaz

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why has the curve been flattened?

I think you know - but just in case you dont - The country has been in lockdown for over 5 week - the country has done its part in help flattening the curve , the 100,000 deaths has not happened, its now time to look at other areas in society that are suffering - the spiralling mental health problem and the huge amount of people who have other medical issues other than Covid 19.

Dickie10

yep more people will die from now on from other cases not being diagnosed because of corona than will die of corona, once that happens its time to move on.

GazzaL

thebaz wrote: »

I think you know - but just in case you dont - The country has been in lockdown for over 5 week - the country has done its part in help flattening the curve , the 100,000 deaths has not happened, its now time to look at other areas in society that are suffering - the spiralling mental health problem and the huge amount of people who have other medical issues other than Covid 19.

It's actually frightening how many people must not be dealing with other medical issues. I've been in one of the biggest hospitals in the country a few times over the last few weeks and it has been deserted. I would encourage anyone who thinks they may have a problem to address it.

Mic 1972

Dickie10 wrote: »

its over lads, sorry to break it to some but the game is up within 6 weeks we wont even be talking about it.

LOL sure

Balf

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You come across as selfish and lacking in empathy for the people who need our help the most.

What the hell is wrong with people? You can't take a few weeks of inconvenience to save lives?

I don't get that attitude.

Don't get it? Maybe you are just selfish and lacking in empathy.

normanoffside

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Its basic immunity. The healthy have been quarantine. Utter madness. Immunity comes from outdoors, obesity comes from indoors

Lockdown Larry, Bunker Bernie and Curtain twitching Catherine will be fooked when they finally have to get back outside.

GazzaL

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You want to address the balance so that you can go to work, get your hair done, go to the pub etc...

Because you need all this, that's fine.

I'll stand by the oldest and most frail in this society who need the rest of the country to do the right thing.

You come across as selfish and lacking in empathy for the people who need our help the most.

What the hell is wrong with people? You can't take a few weeks of inconvenience to save lives?

I don't get that attitude.

You'll stand by the pensioners who want to return to work? You'll stand by the people who want to return to work in order to be able to pay taxes to support our Health Serivce, the elderly and vulnerable? We've already had more than a few weeks off. Time to get up off your arse and work to support your fellow countrymen and women.

SNNUS

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Ah come on now, you either are taking this seriously and actually looking up facts or else your wilfully ignoring them. They announced they have started a thorough testing of care homes, the places where nearly half of deaths are, the number of cases is going to balloon from this not reduce[/QUOTE

If you are stuck indoors all day with not much to do but do not read past the 900 odd new cases and see where this figure is coming from..

I see it on so many posts, 900 cases you are not locked up enough scaremongering, the cases in the community are really low and the spike in numbers is all the testing in nursing homes but yet there is an attack on people that are keeping to the restrictions .

road_high

normanoffside wrote: »

Lockdown Larry, Bunker Bernie and Curtain twitching Catherine will be fooked when they finally have to get back outside.

Just saw one on Facebook decrying neighbours and wanting to report them. We are still very much the valley of squinting windows with far too many busybodies with too much time on their hands. Blown up by 1000 times by this fiasco

Kermit.de.frog

GazzaL wrote: »

We didn't test a diagnose 936 cases in one day, they're over a period of time.

What period of time and how many outside care home settings?

A lot of denial here but that's been the case from day one from people who don't care about anyone else but themselves.

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You want to address the balance so that you can go to work, get your hair done, go to the pub etc...

Because you need all this, that's fine.

I'll stand by the oldest and most frail in this society who need the rest of the country to do the right thing.

You come across as selfish and lacking in empathy for the people who need our help the most.

What the hell is wrong with people? You can't take a few weeks of inconvenience to save lives?

I don't get that attitude.

We are not saving lives.

SNNUS

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

And why is that?

It's not suppressed by the way when you have 936 cases in one day. The highest so far.

Please read past the first line in the news reports.

GazzaL

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What period of time and how many outside care home settings?

A lot of denial here but that's been the case from day one from people who don't care about anyone else but themselves.

More denial. Professor Nolan said the number of deaths has been relatively stable since the end of the first week in April, and that this was the final indication that the virus appeared to be under control. We're going to re-open the economy to prevent a complete social and economic catastrophe.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0423/1134432-figures-covid-thursday-23-april/

Kermit.de.frog

SNNUS wrote: »

Please read past the first line in the news reports.

How many of them are outside care home settings.

I'll wait for the answer.

thebaz

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A lot of denial here but that's been the case from day one from people who don't care about anyone else but themselves.

and what about people with other medical conditions (including mental health), are they not also deserving of equal compassion ?

Kermit.de.frog

GazzaL wrote: »

More lies and denial. Professor Nolan said the number of deaths has been relatively stable since the end of the first week in April, and that this was the final indication that the virus appeared to be under control. We're going to re-open the economy to prevent a complete social and economic catastrophe.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0423/1134432-figures-covid-thursday-23-april/

I'll ask again...because you ignored the questions.

How many outside care home settings?

Over what time period were the test confirmations returned?

GazzaL

thebaz wrote: »

and what about people with other medical conditions (including mental health), are they not also deserving of equal compassion ?

The pro-lockdown nutters don't give a toss if you're suffering from anything other than COVID-19.

LiquidZeb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You want to address the balance so that you can go to work, get your hair done, go to the pub etc...

Because you need all this, that's fine.

I'll stand by the oldest and most frail in this society who need the rest of the country to do the right thing.

You come across as selfish and lacking in empathy for the people who need our help the most.

What the hell is wrong with people? You can't take a few weeks of inconvenience to save lives?

I don't get that attitude.

If people can't go to work and pay their bills and mortgages it's not an inconvenience. If businesses start to go bust and people lose their jobs it's not an inconvenience. It's all well and good now the government have the covid 19 payment but that'll be cut because it's not sustainable, will you be so laid-back then?

FintanMcluskey

road_high wrote: »

Just saw one on Facebook decrying neighbours and wanting to report them. We are still very much the valley of squinting windows with far too many busybodies with too much time on their hands. Blown up by 1000 times by this fiasco

Someone mentioned this previously but it has served to give power to people who have been consumed by jealousy of successful people. Now Chantelle from Tallaght can justify sitting n her pyjamas all day and post on facebook STFAH and save lives.

GazzaL

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'll ask again...because you ignored the questions.

How many outside care home settings?

Over what time period were the test confirmations returned?

Professor Nolan said the trend in Ireland was very stable and that there had been no growth for weeks. The virus is under control. You can try to obfuscate the truth but you destroy your credibility each time.

For about the 5th time, have another read: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0423/1134432-figures-covid-thursday-23-april/

FintanMcluskey

GazzaL wrote: »

Professor Nolan said the trend in Ireland was very stable and that there had been no growth for weeks. The virus is under control. You can try to obfuscate the truth but you destroy your credibility each time.

For about the 5th time, have another read: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0423/1134432-figures-covid-thursday-23-april/

Ya may go again Id say

normanoffside

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many of them are outside care home settings.

I'll wait for the answer.

I Already pointed this out this morning (not that the likes of you are listening) but approximately 70% of new cases are from care homes.


https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1253232672345817088

Kermit.de.frog

GazzaL wrote: »

Professor Nolan said the trend in Ireland was very stable and that there had been no growth for weeks. The virus is under control. You can try to obfuscate the truth but you destroy your credibility each time.

For about the 5th time, have another read: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0423/1134432-figures-covid-thursday-23-april/

No, sorry.

I want you to answer my questions in response to statements by you.

How many of today's 936 new cases are outside nursing home settings?

And over what period were the tests conducted?

You are happy enough to call me a liar so you'll have no problem answering.

Oafley Jones

I thought the politics forum could be bad, but the amount of new regs spreading ****e on this forum is something else.

Kermit.de.frog

normanoffside wrote: »

I Already pointed this out this morning (not that the likes of you are listening) but approximately 70% of new cases are from care homes.


https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1253232672345817088

I'm asking about today's 936 new cases.

How many of them are outside care home settings?

gozunda

GazzaL wrote: »

If the incubation period is up to 14 days, which is what we've been told, and we've been in lockdown for more than 14 days, and R0 is already where it needs to be, you can't expect people to sit on their hands for weeks and weeks beyond that timeframe, especially when they're not being given a forward plan and are just being lectured by belligerent ****.

GazzaL wrote: »

The pro-lockdown nutters don't give a toss if you're suffering from anything other than COVID-19.

Its evident you really understand nothing. Cloud cuckoo land really must be a lovely place to be

There's 'belligerent ****' and 'nutters' all right. They're not who you think ...

Cork Boy 53

Dickie10 wrote: »

its over lads, sorry to break it to some but the game is up within 6 weeks we wont even be talking about it.

Another delusional head in the sand merchant I see. This forum seems to be infested with them.

normanoffside

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm asking about today's 936 new cases.

How many of them are outside care home settings?

Stats on that will probably come out tomorrow but going by trends of the previous two days and the fact that testing is now being concentrated on nursing homes, I would say more than 70%

Pitch n Putt

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Ah yes. The typical Irish reaction whenever an issue arises. Form a committee and after an interminable length of time a report is issued which will be left to gather dust on a shelf in some government department. Way to go for suggesting this.

The committee would be formed not to create a report as you put it but to get a input from experts in other areas economic etc. to see where we’re going with all this.

The future of the country can’t be decided by just a handful of medical experts.

We need a balanced approach and quickly at that as CMO and his assistant Philip Nolan’s approach at this evenings briefing was worrying and the government are just running with whatever they recommend.

coastwatch

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many of them are outside care home settings.

I'll wait for the answer.

I would guess about half or more of the 930 cases reported today are due to the tests in nursing homes coming through now. Those tests started late last week and will continue to come through for another week or more.
I think there are around 25000 people in nursing homes / care homes, and 30000 staff.

Kermit.de.frog

gozunda wrote: »

Its evident you really understand nothing. Cloud cuckoo land really must be a lovely place to be

There's 'belligerent ****' and 'nutters' all right. They're not who you think ...

It's the same group thanking each other for their nonsense.

I don't think I will get an answer to my questions but that's to be expected.

Thank christ this thread is here as a distraction for them.

JRant

So the CMO and Dr Nolan gave what can only be described as one of the most confusing press conferences to date. First the good news, community transmission is pretty much no existent with an R0 of 0.5/0.8. That's fantastic and we should all be extremely proud of what has been achieved since the beginning of March.

Then it went down the rabbit hole IMO. Both of these doctors are recommending maintaining full restrictions until they get the nursing homes under control in case they lead to infection in the wider community. Why not use rapid testing and contact tracing for everyone in nursing homes to manage this problem.

Honestly, I mentioned last night that I feared they would push these restrictions out because they had no plan. This just confirms it really. Either that or they want to use another round of restrictions to take the heat off their handling of the nursing homes, which has been awful from the start.

gauchesnell

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I thought the politics forum could be bad, but the amount of new regs spreading ****e on this forum is something else.

Agree...seems to be a lot of name calling and people shouting abuse at each other.

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm asking about today's 936 new cases.

How many of them are outside care home settings?

Ok Ill try as well. Its been answered already. The testing has ramped up this week in care/nursing homes, so much so the army are involved. Now its a unmitigated disaster the testing to follow the cases dates but at least over 70% and if not much higher for today

JRant

So the CMO and Dr Nolan gave what can only be described as one of the most confusing press conferences to date. First the good news, community transmission is pretty much no existent with an R0 of 0.5/0.8. That's fantastic and we should all be extremely proud of what has been achieved since the beginning of March.

Then it went down the rabbit hole IMO. Both of these doctors are recommending maintaining full restrictions until they get the nursing homes under control in case they lead to infection in the wider community. Why not use rapid testing and contact tracing for everyone in nursing homes to manage this problem.

Honestly, I mentioned last night that I feared they would push these restrictions out because they had no plan. This just confirms it really. Either that or they want to use another round of restrictions to take the heat off their handling of the nursing homes, which has been awful from the start.

FintanMcluskey

JRant wrote: »

So the CMO and Dr Nolan gave what can only be described as one of the most confusing press conferences to date. First the good news, community transmission is pretty much no existent with an R0 of 0.5/0.8. That's fantastic and we should all be extremely proud of what has been achieved since the beginning of March.

Then it went down the rabbit hole IMO. Both of these doctors are recommending maintaining full restrictions until they get the nursing homes under control in case they lead to infection in the wider community. Why not use rapid testing and contact tracing for everyone in nursing homes to manage this problem.

Honestly, I mentioned last night that I feared they would push these restrictions out because they had no plan. This just confirms it really. Either that or they want to use another round of restrictions to take the heat off their handling of the nursing homes, which has been awful from the start.

Frightening. More Frightening than any flu. No direction. No leadership skills. We were told we had to get an RO below 1. Mission accomplished. But no, we now need to solve the unsolvable crisis. How TF will restrictions outside a nursing home solve the problems within.

normanoffside

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's the same group thanking each other for their nonsense.

I don't think I will get an answer to my questions but that's to be expected.

Thank christ this thread is here as a distraction for them.

I have answered your questions but you are not listening.
Do you even read the news past the headlines?
Do you study the detailed HSE reports?
Do you listen to the CMO and his advisers past the initial reporting of numbers?

It seems not!

SNNUS

I want all the answers!!

I will wait until you tell me!!

Good discussion..

Strumms

NH2013 wrote: »

No, you're being asked not to see you family or significant other or friends, something at the core to us as a species is how we socialise and work together as a society and keeping people apart is totally unnatural.

Yes, it is be required but it goes against our natural instinct to be sociable, to engage with others, to form and maintain bonds and relationships. This lockdown, while successful in containing the spread within the community, and was certainly required can not go on forever and people need both hope that it will end soon or else they will simply give up on it.

It is not as simple as just sitting at home and watching TV, it's surpressing our basic instincts to socialise and that's having a major impact on many people, in particular when they're not being given an end in sight.

Our most natural instinct that outweighs everything that you posted... The human instinct to survive when our survival is threatened is our most natural instinct. It’s easier to suppress everything else when our wellbeing and that of our loved ones is threatened. So copping on, sitting at home, staying near home and being part of the formula of the fix instead of a part of the formula for death and illness isn’t a great hardship when you think about it.

Yes certain people I know are having an easier time than others that’s to be expected but the prize for winning this battle, this battle of health, battle of wills, battle of survival is LIFE and wellbeing for everyone... so people need to wrap their brains around that for a time.

normanoffside

JRant wrote: »

Then it went down the rabbit hole IMO. Both of these doctors are recommending maintaining full restrictions until they get the nursing homes under control in case they lead to infection in the wider community. Why not use rapid testing and contact tracing for everyone in nursing homes to manage this problem.

If they can lock down the nursing homes (as they should have done from the start) then what happens in the general population will have no effect inside nursing homes.