Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Mad_maxx

gozunda wrote: »

To be fair the current issues have little or nothing to do with your take on 'fear'. Its everything to do with being pragmatic and developing our on response from other countries experiences. And no it is not inconceivable that we could end up still with our hospitals been overrun and the death rate increasing again.

But more importantly I dont really dont see that anyone is under the impression we can 'defeat' the virus. What we can do like China is to put it back in its box and keep sitting on the lid to ensure that it doesnt get a second chance. And yes that includes a phased lifting of our restrictions as elsewhere.

a virus could emerge in the future ( near or distant ) which has a 90% kill rate , life will still go on some way or other

we cant hide from nature , humans are fragile and death is certain so we might as well just carry on

its in a doctors nature to prioritise the health of everyone regardless of the cost , in fact the cost and practicalities dont enter their head , too much focus has been placed on the views of medics , dan o brien has commented how in germany , the debate has involved economists and even philosophers , here we have bowed exclusively to the doctor fraternity , doctors adore deference and authority as it is and we heaped the maximum on them

skallywag

Mad_maxx wrote: »

a virus could emerge in the future ( near or distant ) which has a 90% kill rate , life will still go on some way or other

True, just look at Ebola (90%+) or rabies (99.9%).

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1258701132140097536?s=19

But yeah let's keep businesses closed and handing out €350 quid a week

Ginger n Lemon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1258701132140097536?s=19

But yeah let's keep businesses closed and handing out €350 quid a week

WOW. 25% was my worst predicted figure, not a figure closer to 30% unemployment.

Leo its time to open up. No jokes now, no Friday night comedy, open up...

Kermit.de.frog

Good news on unemployment which is at 5.4% for April up slightly from 5.3% the previous month.

Obviously the temporary COVID measures drive it up considerably but the seasonally adjusted level of unemployment remains low.

Cork Boy 53

skallywag wrote: »

True, just look at Ebola (90%+) or rabies (99.9%).

Vaccines have been developed for both of those diseases. The same can`t be said for the Covid-19 virus.

easypazz

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1258701132140097536?s=19

But yeah let's keep businesses closed and handing out €350 quid a week

They will have their work cut out getting people back to work.

As I said previously a lot of businesses are in no rush to reopen, the real world is a lot tougher than civil servants like to think.

HeidiHeidi

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

WOW. 25% was my worst predicted figure, not a figure closer to 30% unemployment.

Leo its time to open up. No jokes now, no Friday night comedy, open up...

Do you never get sick of parroting the same lame lines and "jokes" over and over and over again?

(Hint: I do)

easypazz

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good news on unemployment which is at 5.4% for April up slightly from 5.3% the previous month.

Obviously the temporary COVID measures drive it up considerably but the seasonally adjusted level of unemployment remains low.

You are some clown.

Are the Aer Lingus, Ryanair and general avaition job losses all just temporary?

Will all the small businesses just reopen and be viable at vastly reduced capacity?

Answer is no and no.

There is no good news on unemployment.

Cork Boy 53

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

WOW. 25% was my worst predicted figure, not a figure closer to 30% unemployment.

Leo its time to open up. No jokes now, no Friday night comedy, open up...

As if Leo is reading what a cohort of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

stephenjmcd

easypazz wrote: »

They will have their work cut out getting people back to work.

As I said previously a lot of businesses are in no rush to reopen, the real world is a lot tougher than civil servants like to think.

This will also play into things now
https://twitter.com/SeanDefoe/status/1258687887874363393?s=19

is_that_so

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As if Leo is reading what a handful of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

Someone is, because you do see things pop up elsewhere!

stephenjmcd

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good news on unemployment which is at 5.4% for April up slightly from 5.3% the previous month.

Obviously the temporary COVID measures drive it up considerably but the seasonally adjusted level of unemployment remains low.

Thats not accurate and you know it. They may well be the permanent unemployed stats for those months but many businesses wont reopen and the people on temporary payment then become part of that unemployed percentage. Kicking the can down the road

_Kaiser_

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As if Leo is reading what a cohort of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

He's not, but you can be sure someone in FG is. They actively monitor forums like this.

It's a lot more constructive than the nonsense posts on Twitter/Facebook too which generally come across as the "rent a mob" types.

(still, better than the buy a "like" tactic I guess)

castletownman

The policy seems to be "lets treat the general public like lepers when everywhere starts to re-open". I hear everyone is to be given bells to ring when you are approaching human contact.

Increasing health and safety procedures (like the certs that restaurants and the likes need to have), and providing every business with a hand-sanitising station upon entry, while stressing to the at-risk categories that by mingling they are doing so at their own risk, is a much more logical approach, in my opinion.

What was it, 22 cases in the community yesterday? We know that it is clustered in nursing homes, some food processing plants and now they are targeting Direct Provision Centres for their testing. The average Joe can't influence a spread occurring in an environment he/he wouldn't be near anyway. Please tell me how the continued restriction of the majority is the correct approach here, especially given how a sizeable chunk of Europe are re-opening far ahead of us, and the financial implications of keeping the economy in inertia are frightening?

It's amazing how we kowtow to the rest of Europe when it comes to governmental policies and finance, but yet we ignore the "EU model" now. I wonder what spin they will put on the imminent homelessness crisis within the next year? Dr. Holohan has no worries in that regard.

ChelseaRentBoy

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As if Leo is reading what a cohort of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

Some people on here actually think he is, i'm not joking.

Kermit.de.frog

Many businesses will reopen and they are the figures from the CSO.

Take it up with them if you have an issue.

Fear mongering is not helping your case (whatever that case is).

growleaves

is_that_so wrote: »

Someone is, because you do see things pop up elsewhere!

Of course some journalists and minor government employees would look at it. Probably a few posters are on the gov payroll.

It was an Irish Times headline in the 1990s that the government can legally read people's private emails.

The surveillance powers of the government are classified, and judges have to sign off on them and give extensions.

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

Get back to work you and stop dossing.;)

In these messed up times, a bank holiday Monday is on a Friday!

jibber5000

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This is what happens when you have a weak, vain, politician who is more concerned with his Twitter account and selfies with celebs and important people, than actually leading the country and looking after the people in it.

The guy has never been anything beyond spin and soundbites. Look at his performances as a minister in Enda's government. Lots to say about other people's departments - did very little in his own.

No surprise then that he's effectively handed over policy control to Tony and the HSE and making speeches quoting movies.

As I've said soo many times before... this is why FG are never elected except as a protest vote. Because they prove to be even worse than FF in the long run.

Leo decided to take another pop at Trump in his Dail speech yesterday.

We've enough problems without him grandstanding and making cheap glib comments.

_Kaiser_

jibber5000 wrote: »

Leo decided to take another pop at Trump in his Dail speech yesterday.

We've enough problems without him grandstanding and making cheap glib comments.

I genuinely don't understand the obsession some people here have with Trump and everything he says/tweets. Actually I o.. a lot of people were personally offended by the election results and how people could vote for something/someone not in-line with their own worldview.

Leo is just piggy-backing onto that of course to be down with the cool kids.

Penfailed

castletownman wrote: »

It's amazing how we kowtow to the rest of Europe when it comes to governmental policies and finance, but yet we ignore the "EU model" now.

There is no 'EU Model'. Every country is handling it differently.

Cork Boy 53

Penfailed wrote: »

In these messed up times, a bank holiday Monday is on a Friday!

I thought that the reason for the NI bank holiday being today is due to it being the 75th anniversary of VE Day the same as the 50th anniversary in 1995 was also a holiday. Is that not the case?

stephenjmcd

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Many businesses will reopen and they are the figures from the CSO.

Take it up with them if you have an issue.

Fear mongering is not helping your case (whatever that case is).

Theres no fear mongering. Its reality. Those permanently unemployed rates are a snapshot at the time no issue there. A large percentage of those of the pandemic unemployment and or wage subsidy scheme payment will become part of the permanent figures, AerLingus, Ryanair, Bewleys to name just 3 who are laying off part or in the case of bewleys cafe all of the workforce.

Businesses will reopen but many wont. Again kicking the can down the road and moving the staff into the unemployed figures . If you think unemployment is going to remain low at those 5% numbers then your deluded. We won't see 5% unemployment for a long long time.

You said good news on unemployment there is no good news on that front.

Captain_Crash

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As if Leo is reading what a cohort of anonymous posters on boards.ie keep banging on about. Right.........:rolleyes:

Actually, on this.. I've a friend who works with PR and social media for FG and I can assure you, while Leo himself is not reading this forum, FG most certainly are

castletownman

Penfailed wrote: »

There is no 'EU Model'. Every country is handling it differently.

And yet most of them seem to be along the same lines, apart from us.

Ginger n Lemon

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Actually, on this.. I've a friend who works with PR and social media for FG and I can assure you, while Leo himself is not reading this forum, FG most certainly are

Well we better convince the "deadly 2nd wave could come" doomsayers to change their opinion and look at multiple other countries progresses and their successes in avoiding second waves.

In case a FG member reads that post and gets the impression that our public is very scared and isnt eager at all to go back to work.

Heard a lad on newstalk yesterday who plays for Shelbourne FC saying that some of the playing team may need to go work in construction if football in Ireland doesnt return soon. Heart breaking.

2smiggy

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well we better convince the "deadly 2nd wave could come" doomsayers to change their opinion and look at multiple other countries progresses and their successes in avoiding second waves.

In case a FG member reads that post and gets the impression that our public is very scared and isnt eager at all to go back to work.

Heard a lad on newstalk yesterday who plays for Shelbourne FC saying that some of the playing team may need to go work in construction if football in Ireland doesnt return soon. Heart breaking.

imagine having to work in construction, truly truly heartbreaking indeed

growleaves

Remember Marlon Brando in On the Waterfront, "I coulda been somebody!"

Nothing wrong with construction but having your realised dream of being a successful athlete taken away from you? Crushing.

Ginger n Lemon

2smiggy wrote: »

imagine having to work in construction, truly truly heartbreaking indeed

Yeah, when you chose to play football and not go to college only to realise few years down the road you ll be on the dole regardless of how good a football player you are, or go to construction.

A lot of football players could have easily gotten master degrees in college and been in good jobs, but they have this thing called pursuing their dream. Its heart breaking when dreams are shattered.

fly_agaric

castletownman wrote: »

Please tell me how the continued restriction of the majority is the correct approach here, especially given how a sizeable chunk of Europe are re-opening far ahead of us, and the financial implications of keeping the economy in inertia are frightening?

Things have improved alot since March but (IMO, from what I read in the media) they still have some work to do on a few fronts like the speed/responsiveness of testing + contact tracing system (too slow, very manual) and quarantining/isolating people if need be (too much dependence on an honour system without enough checking perhaps).

Maybe also some new systems for control of people coming into the country to ensure they obey any quarantining procedures etc.
That seems to be a sticky issue as I keep hearing it mentioned as under discussion (for weeks now) but nothing seems to be happening (perhaps the health people are suggesting it should happen, but there is major pushback/reluctance to do it from politicians for a number of reasons?).

When they relax restrictions significantly, virus will start to spread a bit more again.
I know people on this thread get very angry & don't want to hear it but IMO, if systems of control are not good enough there is a risk we could end up back in a poor situation after a few weeks/months which would be a disaster really (especially if other countries in EU manage the situation better and continue to improve while we go backwards).

Mic 1972

I've been out of the loop, does anyone know if i can drive 10km for a house viewing?

If the daily cases and number in ICU gets any lower, its going to become near impossible to justify the quarter of a year restrictions.

Blut2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good news on unemployment which is at 5.4% for April up slightly from 5.3% the previous month.

Obviously the temporary COVID measures drive it up considerably but the seasonally adjusted level of unemployment remains low.

Thats absolutely insane logic.

There are now 598,000 people dependent on the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment

The Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme (TWSS), with more than 427,000 workers having their wages subsidised under the scheme.

These figures come on top of around 205,000 people who were already on the Live Register at the end of March.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136475-covid19-coronavirus-industry/

Anyone claiming "good news on unemployment" is either completely crazy, or deliberately lying.

Thats 1,230,000 people - out of the Irish workforce of 2.4 million - on payment supports. Over 50% of the working population. And its going up by thousands every week. And of the remaining 1,170,000 workers approx 350,000 are public servants.

All of which means we're down to about 820,000 private sector workers in this country, whos taxes now have to support the other 4.2 million Irish people.

Of the over 1 million people on the "temporary" employment support payments a huge, huge number are going to be left unemployed for a long time to come. Hotel workers, bar workers, restaurant workers, airline workers etc... none of them are walking back into a job in June.

These unemployment figures are literally the biggest economic crisis this country has ever seen. During the last recession unemployment peaked at only 16%. There is no good news here whatsoever.

Mic 1972

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I've been out of the loop, does anyone know if i can drive 10km for a house viewing?

Of course, a place to live is essential. Therefore, its an essential journey

Paddygreen

I am very afraid that the lockdown will end before I have used up my masks and blue gloves. I even drive my leaf totally ppeed just so other drivers can see me, lead by example I always say. A disapproving look is usually enough. A naked face in lidl yesterday actually pushed his trolley past the sanatising station without sanatising, these people need to be a, shunned, b refused service and c, sprayed with disinfectants. The clapping and candle lighting for our healthcare hero's on the frontline of the war on coronavirus has dwindled recently. From my vantage point I am keeping note of who is not showing support for our HSE Heros in the trenches during this full frontal attack by the viral hun aka coronavirus. #soscared

Mic 1972

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course, a place to live is essential. Therefore, its an essential journey

that's what i was thinking but it's not my first house, so not sure how essential, anyway I'll take my chances

Paddygreen

jibber5000 wrote: »

Leo decided to take another pop at Trump in his Dail speech yesterday.

We've enough problems without him grandstanding and making cheap glib comments.

Our wonderful Teapot should remind Mister Trump and his toxic white male trumpatees that US pharma corps have outsourced a significant amount of manufacturing here in Ireland. Take that Trump, you need us.

HeidiHeidi

Paddygreen wrote: »

I am very afraid that the lockdown will end before I have used up my masks and blue gloves. I even drive my leaf totally ppeed just so other drivers can see me, lead by example I always say. A disapproving look is usually enough. A naked face in lidl yesterday actually pushed his trolley past the sanatising station without sanatising, these people need to be a, shunned, b refused service and c, sprayed with disinfectants. The clapping and candle lighting for our healthcare hero's on the frontline of the war on coronavirus has dwindled recently. From my vantage point I am keeping note of who is not showing support for our HSE Heros in the trenches during this full frontal attack by the viral hun aka coronavirus. #soscared

You were mildly funny with this schtick for a while.

Not so much any more.

You've worn your own joke out.

Paddygreen

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

You were mildly funny with this schtick for a while.

Not so much any more.

You've worn your own joke out.

I am not here for your entertainment love.

Paddygreen

Paddygreen wrote: »

I am not here for your entertainment love.

Oh, but you are

Ginger n Lemon

Paddygreen wrote: »

I am very afraid that the lockdown will end before I have used up my masks and blue gloves. I even drive my leaf totally ppeed just so other drivers can see me, lead by example I always say. A disapproving look is usually enough. A naked face in lidl yesterday actually pushed his trolley past the sanatising station without sanatising, these people need to be a, shunned, b refused service and c, sprayed with disinfectants. The clapping and candle lighting for our healthcare hero's on the frontline of the war on coronavirus has dwindled recently. From my vantage point I am keeping note of who is not showing support for our HSE Heros in the trenches during this full frontal attack by the viral hun aka coronavirus. #soscared

I have an honest question. Would you be supportive of an increase in USC by 2% in October for everybody employed in Ireland and a simultaneous 10% pay increase for all the nurses and doctors employed by HSE?

I ve talked with some nurses in Naas hospital, they told me that clapping is great but its difficult to feed your family with extra claps.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I have an honest question. Would you be supportive of an increase in USC by 2% in October for everybody employed in Ireland and a simultaneous 10% pay increase for all the nurses and doctors employed by HSE?

I ve talked with some nurses in Naas hospital, they told me that clapping is great but its difficult to feed your family with extra claps.

Don’t engage! It’s a spoof post

HeidiHeidi

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, but you are

If he is, he's not very good at it :rolleyes:

gozunda

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Lets get 1 thing right - i am not proud "we are doing well". I think we are at the bottom of the list in terms of how we dealt with the whole thing. I wouldnt be surprised if Albania did better than Ireland.

And you are correct, multiple virologists from numerous countries have conducted studies testing 10,000,000 + people and finding mortality rate of covid of 0.2-0.3%. Multiple statisticians are giving us numbers showing barely any if at all increase in deaths from covid.

You see when RTE tells you 1400 people have died having contracted covid19, they dont tell you that 80% of those had less than 3 months to live or maybe even less than 3 days to live. HSE lists cancer as an "underlying condition". Do i really need to say anything else?

PS deaths do not occur from Covid. They occur in conjunction with covid, do you really think medics treating a person who is dying are gonna say "ok, he had covid, he died". no. they ll check his lungs - he was a smoker, they ll check his heart - he had a heart disease etc etc. This is medicine 101. RTE just chooses to bang the covid drum to cover up for this governments horrendous response.

Well I was referring you being proud of ireland meeting much of the criteria of the findings from that SCIENTIFIC study you were lauding. But no matter.

Yes I know you think that the pandemic is "truely nothing at all". Though I reckon you will he disappointed to learn there is no global popularity contest which you think is running atm. News - it isnt.

Btw thank you for saying I was correct. As detailed - there is no official or current global mortality rate for Covid. It may be possible to determine this in retrospect but unlikely at present .

RTE telling us when exactly people are going to die in the future? Is it that they have some new means to know when people will die? That would be fierce handy all right. You could make a fortune with taking out a good insurance policy on granny or whoever. Everyone would be laughing all the way to the bank surely! . Though obviously not all cancers are fatal and many people live long lives even with diagnosed Long Term Illnessses

That said I like your idea on dying "with Covid". We could turn that on its head and reduce road deaths by claiming people actually died with a heart condition or whatever LTI they had rather than killed by a careless driver. Sound.

Ginger n Lemon

BBC are back at it again.

"
Posted at 11:50
When could we have a vaccine?
The coronavirus spreads easily and the majority of the world's population is still vulnerable to it.

A vaccine would provide some protection by training people's immune systems to fight the virus so they should not become sick."

Coronavirus spreads easily? Less than 4m infected in 5 months, out of 8bn population. 0.05% infected on the planet in 5 months (at least 2 of the months with people roaming free). We all either had some seriously strict lockdowns very early, or it doesnt not spread easily.

Love the "majority of population is still vulnerable". Scare mongering at its finest.

uli84

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If the daily cases and number in ICU gets any lower, its going to become near impossible to justify the quarter of a year restrictions.

Ah cmon they are very creative

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

Well I was referring you being proud of ireland meeting much of the criteria of the findings from that SCIENTIFIC study you were lauding. But no matter.

Yes I know you think that the pandemic is "truely nothing at all". Though I reckon you will he disappointed to learn there is no global popularity contest which you think is running atm. News - it isnt.

Btw thank you for saying I was correct. As detailed - there is no official or current global mortality rate for Covid. It may be possible to determine this in retrospect but unlikely at present .

RTE telling us when exactly people are going to die in the future? Is it that they have some new means to know when people will die? That would be fierce handy all right. You could make a fortune with taking out a good insurance policy on granny or whoever. Everyone would be laughing all the way to the bank surely! . Though obviously not all cancers are fatal and many people live long lives even with diagnosed Long Term Illnessses

That said I like your idea on dying "with Covid". We could turn that on its head and reduce road deaths by claiming people actually died with a heart condition or whatever LTI they had rather than killed by a careless driver. Sound.

If you say there is no official or current global mortality rate for covid, why are you so afraid of lifting restrictions quickly? Because our empty hospitals may get overwhelmed? Do you really think that will happen considering that nation has been brainwashed to wash their hands every 2 minutes and stay 2 metres away from nearest individual that doesnt live in your household? Do you really think if restrictions are lifted people will go and hug their grandparents as much as possible?

You dont need to turn my idea of dying with covid on its head. Friend, people die of cancer, heart disease, lung disease, smoking, having non existent immune system, the list goes on and on and on. Over 300 people in this country die of obesity relating diseases (not covid) every year. If they contract covid and die, do you really think its a covid death?

Penfailed

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I thought that the reason for the NI bank holiday being today is due to it being the 75th anniversary of VE Day the same as the 50th anniversary in 1995 was also a holiday. Is that not the case?

I honestly have no clue! That ^^^ sounds accurate though.

Penfailed

castletownman wrote: »

And yet most of them seem to be along the same lines, apart from us.

We're following the same approach, albeit...slower.