Relaxation of restrictions Part II

fly_agaric

castletownman wrote: »

Please tell me how the continued restriction of the majority is the correct approach here, especially given how a sizeable chunk of Europe are re-opening far ahead of us, and the financial implications of keeping the economy in inertia are frightening?

Things have improved alot since March but (IMO, from what I read in the media) they still have some work to do on a few fronts like the speed/responsiveness of testing + contact tracing system (too slow, very manual) and quarantining/isolating people if need be (too much dependence on an honour system without enough checking perhaps).

Maybe also some new systems for control of people coming into the country to ensure they obey any quarantining procedures etc.
That seems to be a sticky issue as I keep hearing it mentioned as under discussion (for weeks now) but nothing seems to be happening (perhaps the health people are suggesting it should happen, but there is major pushback/reluctance to do it from politicians for a number of reasons?).

When they relax restrictions significantly, virus will start to spread a bit more again.
I know people on this thread get very angry & don't want to hear it but IMO, if systems of control are not good enough there is a risk we could end up back in a poor situation after a few weeks/months which would be a disaster really (especially if other countries in EU manage the situation better and continue to improve while we go backwards).

Mic 1972

I've been out of the loop, does anyone know if i can drive 10km for a house viewing?

If the daily cases and number in ICU gets any lower, its going to become near impossible to justify the quarter of a year restrictions.

Blut2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good news on unemployment which is at 5.4% for April up slightly from 5.3% the previous month.

Obviously the temporary COVID measures drive it up considerably but the seasonally adjusted level of unemployment remains low.

Thats absolutely insane logic.

There are now 598,000 people dependent on the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment

The Temporary Wage Subsidy Scheme (TWSS), with more than 427,000 workers having their wages subsidised under the scheme.

These figures come on top of around 205,000 people who were already on the Live Register at the end of March.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136475-covid19-coronavirus-industry/

Anyone claiming "good news on unemployment" is either completely crazy, or deliberately lying.

Thats 1,230,000 people - out of the Irish workforce of 2.4 million - on payment supports. Over 50% of the working population. And its going up by thousands every week. And of the remaining 1,170,000 workers approx 350,000 are public servants.

All of which means we're down to about 820,000 private sector workers in this country, whos taxes now have to support the other 4.2 million Irish people.

Of the over 1 million people on the "temporary" employment support payments a huge, huge number are going to be left unemployed for a long time to come. Hotel workers, bar workers, restaurant workers, airline workers etc... none of them are walking back into a job in June.

These unemployment figures are literally the biggest economic crisis this country has ever seen. During the last recession unemployment peaked at only 16%. There is no good news here whatsoever.

Mic 1972

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I've been out of the loop, does anyone know if i can drive 10km for a house viewing?

Of course, a place to live is essential. Therefore, its an essential journey

Paddygreen

I am very afraid that the lockdown will end before I have used up my masks and blue gloves. I even drive my leaf totally ppeed just so other drivers can see me, lead by example I always say. A disapproving look is usually enough. A naked face in lidl yesterday actually pushed his trolley past the sanatising station without sanatising, these people need to be a, shunned, b refused service and c, sprayed with disinfectants. The clapping and candle lighting for our healthcare hero's on the frontline of the war on coronavirus has dwindled recently. From my vantage point I am keeping note of who is not showing support for our HSE Heros in the trenches during this full frontal attack by the viral hun aka coronavirus. #soscared

Mic 1972

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course, a place to live is essential. Therefore, its an essential journey

that's what i was thinking but it's not my first house, so not sure how essential, anyway I'll take my chances

Paddygreen

jibber5000 wrote: »

Leo decided to take another pop at Trump in his Dail speech yesterday.

We've enough problems without him grandstanding and making cheap glib comments.

Our wonderful Teapot should remind Mister Trump and his toxic white male trumpatees that US pharma corps have outsourced a significant amount of manufacturing here in Ireland. Take that Trump, you need us.

HeidiHeidi

Paddygreen wrote: »

I am very afraid that the lockdown will end before I have used up my masks and blue gloves. I even drive my leaf totally ppeed just so other drivers can see me, lead by example I always say. A disapproving look is usually enough. A naked face in lidl yesterday actually pushed his trolley past the sanatising station without sanatising, these people need to be a, shunned, b refused service and c, sprayed with disinfectants. The clapping and candle lighting for our healthcare hero's on the frontline of the war on coronavirus has dwindled recently. From my vantage point I am keeping note of who is not showing support for our HSE Heros in the trenches during this full frontal attack by the viral hun aka coronavirus. #soscared

You were mildly funny with this schtick for a while.

Not so much any more.

You've worn your own joke out.

Paddygreen

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

You were mildly funny with this schtick for a while.

Not so much any more.

You've worn your own joke out.

I am not here for your entertainment love.

Paddygreen

Paddygreen wrote: »

I am not here for your entertainment love.

Oh, but you are

Ginger n Lemon

Paddygreen wrote: »

I am very afraid that the lockdown will end before I have used up my masks and blue gloves. I even drive my leaf totally ppeed just so other drivers can see me, lead by example I always say. A disapproving look is usually enough. A naked face in lidl yesterday actually pushed his trolley past the sanatising station without sanatising, these people need to be a, shunned, b refused service and c, sprayed with disinfectants. The clapping and candle lighting for our healthcare hero's on the frontline of the war on coronavirus has dwindled recently. From my vantage point I am keeping note of who is not showing support for our HSE Heros in the trenches during this full frontal attack by the viral hun aka coronavirus. #soscared

I have an honest question. Would you be supportive of an increase in USC by 2% in October for everybody employed in Ireland and a simultaneous 10% pay increase for all the nurses and doctors employed by HSE?

I ve talked with some nurses in Naas hospital, they told me that clapping is great but its difficult to feed your family with extra claps.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I have an honest question. Would you be supportive of an increase in USC by 2% in October for everybody employed in Ireland and a simultaneous 10% pay increase for all the nurses and doctors employed by HSE?

I ve talked with some nurses in Naas hospital, they told me that clapping is great but its difficult to feed your family with extra claps.

Don’t engage! It’s a spoof post

HeidiHeidi

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, but you are

If he is, he's not very good at it :rolleyes:

gozunda

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Lets get 1 thing right - i am not proud "we are doing well". I think we are at the bottom of the list in terms of how we dealt with the whole thing. I wouldnt be surprised if Albania did better than Ireland.

And you are correct, multiple virologists from numerous countries have conducted studies testing 10,000,000 + people and finding mortality rate of covid of 0.2-0.3%. Multiple statisticians are giving us numbers showing barely any if at all increase in deaths from covid.

You see when RTE tells you 1400 people have died having contracted covid19, they dont tell you that 80% of those had less than 3 months to live or maybe even less than 3 days to live. HSE lists cancer as an "underlying condition". Do i really need to say anything else?

PS deaths do not occur from Covid. They occur in conjunction with covid, do you really think medics treating a person who is dying are gonna say "ok, he had covid, he died". no. they ll check his lungs - he was a smoker, they ll check his heart - he had a heart disease etc etc. This is medicine 101. RTE just chooses to bang the covid drum to cover up for this governments horrendous response.

Well I was referring you being proud of ireland meeting much of the criteria of the findings from that SCIENTIFIC study you were lauding. But no matter.

Yes I know you think that the pandemic is "truely nothing at all". Though I reckon you will he disappointed to learn there is no global popularity contest which you think is running atm. News - it isnt.

Btw thank you for saying I was correct. As detailed - there is no official or current global mortality rate for Covid. It may be possible to determine this in retrospect but unlikely at present .

RTE telling us when exactly people are going to die in the future? Is it that they have some new means to know when people will die? That would be fierce handy all right. You could make a fortune with taking out a good insurance policy on granny or whoever. Everyone would be laughing all the way to the bank surely! . Though obviously not all cancers are fatal and many people live long lives even with diagnosed Long Term Illnessses

That said I like your idea on dying "with Covid". We could turn that on its head and reduce road deaths by claiming people actually died with a heart condition or whatever LTI they had rather than killed by a careless driver. Sound.

Ginger n Lemon

BBC are back at it again.

"
Posted at 11:50
When could we have a vaccine?
The coronavirus spreads easily and the majority of the world's population is still vulnerable to it.

A vaccine would provide some protection by training people's immune systems to fight the virus so they should not become sick."

Coronavirus spreads easily? Less than 4m infected in 5 months, out of 8bn population. 0.05% infected on the planet in 5 months (at least 2 of the months with people roaming free). We all either had some seriously strict lockdowns very early, or it doesnt not spread easily.

Love the "majority of population is still vulnerable". Scare mongering at its finest.

uli84

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If the daily cases and number in ICU gets any lower, its going to become near impossible to justify the quarter of a year restrictions.

Ah cmon they are very creative

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

Well I was referring you being proud of ireland meeting much of the criteria of the findings from that SCIENTIFIC study you were lauding. But no matter.

Yes I know you think that the pandemic is "truely nothing at all". Though I reckon you will he disappointed to learn there is no global popularity contest which you think is running atm. News - it isnt.

Btw thank you for saying I was correct. As detailed - there is no official or current global mortality rate for Covid. It may be possible to determine this in retrospect but unlikely at present .

RTE telling us when exactly people are going to die in the future? Is it that they have some new means to know when people will die? That would be fierce handy all right. You could make a fortune with taking out a good insurance policy on granny or whoever. Everyone would be laughing all the way to the bank surely! . Though obviously not all cancers are fatal and many people live long lives even with diagnosed Long Term Illnessses

That said I like your idea on dying "with Covid". We could turn that on its head and reduce road deaths by claiming people actually died with a heart condition or whatever LTI they had rather than killed by a careless driver. Sound.

If you say there is no official or current global mortality rate for covid, why are you so afraid of lifting restrictions quickly? Because our empty hospitals may get overwhelmed? Do you really think that will happen considering that nation has been brainwashed to wash their hands every 2 minutes and stay 2 metres away from nearest individual that doesnt live in your household? Do you really think if restrictions are lifted people will go and hug their grandparents as much as possible?

You dont need to turn my idea of dying with covid on its head. Friend, people die of cancer, heart disease, lung disease, smoking, having non existent immune system, the list goes on and on and on. Over 300 people in this country die of obesity relating diseases (not covid) every year. If they contract covid and die, do you really think its a covid death?

Penfailed

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I thought that the reason for the NI bank holiday being today is due to it being the 75th anniversary of VE Day the same as the 50th anniversary in 1995 was also a holiday. Is that not the case?

I honestly have no clue! That ^^^ sounds accurate though.

Penfailed

castletownman wrote: »

And yet most of them seem to be along the same lines, apart from us.

We're following the same approach, albeit...slower.

There is still a lot of scaremongering going on because medical experts are afraid to admit that they were wrong. I guess it sucks to be so wrong when the world economy has taken an absolute beaten based on the models and advice.

But Covid has had nowhere near the impact once feared. It’s nothing more than a bad flu season. Even the Irish death stats back that up.

It’s only really a threat if you are over 65 and in poor health. (Cancer, heart disease etc)

Lockdown has done more harm than good. Locking down nursing homes properly would have helped,

HeidiHeidi

Deleted User wrote: »

There is still a lot of scaremongering going on because medical experts are afraid to admit that they were wrong. I guess it sucks to be so wrong when the world economy has taken an absolute beaten based on the models and advice.

But Covid has had nowhere near the impact once feared. It’s nothing more than a bad flu season. Even the Irish death stats back that up.

It’s only really a threat if you are over 65 and in poor health. (Cancer, heart disease etc)

Lockdown has done more harm than good. Locking down nursing homes properly would have helped,

And for the 47th time, how do you "lock down" nursing homes when medical staff, cleaning staff, suppliers, etc etc all have to interact with the outside world?

I haven't seen a single attempt to answer this yet.

_Kaiser_

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

You were mildly funny with this schtick for a while.

Not so much any more.

You've worn your own joke out.

"Comedy" posters like this just add nothing IMO. It's like how many love the fantasy ramblings of Van Bismarck or whatever his name was. Personally I don't get the appeal, but then I'm probably not the target audience.

Should stick to AH where it's wanted. All it does here is derail a serious topic.

polesheep

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

And for the 47th time, how do you "lock down" nursing homes when medical staff, cleaning staff, suppliers, etc etc all have to interact with the outside world?

I haven't seen a single attempt to answer this yet.

You give them all the resources (PPE) they need. It worked in the hospitals.

LiquidZeb

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

"A pandemic (from Greek πᾶν, pan, "all" and δῆμος, demos, "people") is an epidemic of disease that has spread across a large region, for instance multiple continents or worldwide, affecting a substantial number of people."

You do know that the Spanish flu pandemic had by far the highest mortality rates during the later waves. Who is to say that the Covid virus will not follow the same pattern if it is allowed to spread unrestricted through the population? I don`t believe that the WHO will be going anywhere either.

Yes because the Spanish flu is the only outbreak to occur in the past century. As I've said before it was pre national health service, pre electricity in many places and pre running water and sanitation. People lived in cramped tenements and worked in bustling factories. There was also a war going on. Its apples and oranges compared to the current situation

amandstu

Has anyone any idea how the gradual relaxation of restrictions might apply to garages?

Ginger n Lemon

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Yes because the Spanish flu is the only outbreak to occur in the past century. As I've said before it was pre national health service, pre electricity in many places and pre running water and sanitation. People lived in cramped tenements and worked in bustling factories. There was also a war going on. Its apples and oranges compared to the current situation

"A pandemic (from Greek πᾶν, pan, "all" and δῆμος, demos, "people") is an epidemic of disease that has spread across a large region, for instance multiple continents or worldwide, affecting a substantial number of people."

Quite interesting whats their definition of a substantial amount of people? Currently less than 0.05% of the world has been infected with Covid according to today's figures.

To respond to the original poster, past performance is not an indicator of future results.

Also, WHO will be gone. Its not just funding cuts to them, they also have this weird thing with Taiwan who have done a spectacular job with covid

"
The Taiwanese government had a pretty effective response to the virus—especially given its location—and it was all ignored by the WHO."

easypazz

Out and about the last few hours. A lot of cars everywhere, definitely the first time I always had a few ahead of me and a few tagging behind.

Lots of places now open, or open with some sort of table across the front.

Just one shamer wearing a mask, these have been defeated now, unless it is made a law.

No cops to be seen, people observing social distancing.

The government plan is a sham already, and that's before any restrictions have really been eased.

Blaze420

easypazz wrote: »

Out and about the last few hours. A lot of cars everywhere, definitely the first time I always had a few ahead of me and a few tagging behind.

Lots of places now open, or open with some sort of table across the front.

Just one shamer wearing a mask, these have been defeated now, unless it is made a law.

No cops to be seen, people observing social distancing.

The government plan is a sham already, and that's before any restrictions have really been eased.

Noticed this myself the past few days, I think they have well and truly lost public buy in to this extension of the restrictions. The pavements are packed with walkers/cyclists/joggers and the roads are getting back to the sort of traffic that would be seen in normal times before CV19. Just a few weeks ago my local area was like a ghost town in regards to traffic or people, very noticeable to see the change now.

ChelseaRentBoy

easypazz wrote: »

Out and about the last few hours. A lot of cars everywhere, definitely the first time I always had a few ahead of me and a few tagging behind.

Lots of places now open, or open with some sort of table across the front.

Just one shamer wearing a mask, these have been defeated now, unless it is made a law.

No cops to be seen, people observing social distancing.

The government plan is a sham already, and that's before any restrictions have really been eased.

Shamer :pac: Will you ever listen to yourself.

I suppose it's better than yesterday when you went out of your way to use a woman dying of cancer to score points.