Relaxation of restrictions Part II

fr336

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Because the cure is becoming worse than the disease for the majority. Most of us need to get back to work so that we don’t end up with a Stone Age economy. In order for the old and vulnerable to be looked after those of us who do not fall into those categories need to be contributing as normal.

Stone age economy! HA! What do you think happens to the economy when people start buying again? And they haven't stopped buying now, by the way.

Spanish Eyes

The elder healthy wealthy pensioners may be our saviours. Going forward lol.

Pity they spend their money on the Costas rather than here.

But then again who would want to be cocooned in a flat in Benidorm or the likes either. Better to have your own back garden these days.

Between the skiers and skaters and the holiday homers, I dunno, what have I done wrong!

fr336

Spencer Brown wrote: »

This isn't a solution. Presumably your plan of eradicating it completely involves shutting down all travel into the country until the rest of the world is also rid of it?

Are you saying there should have never been a lockdown, Spencer?

martingriff

road_high wrote: »

Follow the paths Germany and other neighbours are on. Slowly reopening with continued social distancing and hygiene.
Work from home to continue for those that can. Staggered shifts also in offices/factories etc.
Allow restaurants and cafes open for take away and/or social distancing.
Similar for all small business really. We will take baby steps and not rush back into anything.
Schools etc to follow after that

100% agree. May see a small bit of school (get them out of the house for a bit, stagger years) but nothing until September

fr336

niallo27 wrote: »

What natural disasters have we had to deal with.

This one.

road_high

DeVore wrote: »

Theres a guy who is in my wood turning group. 75, carpenter all his life, real Dub. Strong as **** from lifting.. no he's dead now.

2 days ago.

This virus doesnt give a sh*t about you.

Yes people got the virus and died. It’s tragic. We know that else we wouldn’t be here discussing it. We are all aware of the fact anyone can die from it.
But they also die from poverty, poor healthcare, mental health issues all of which permeate from a destroyed economy

DeVore

Unless someone thinks that hospitals DO NOTHING to help, then they must agree that exceeding the hospitals capacity MUST therefore impact mortality.

ie: more people die if we do that.


So we shouldnt do that.


I really really cant make this f*cking clearer.

FintanMcluskey

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Absolutely no evidence that they won`t either.

If this was killing young healthy people it would effect the death rate. This years death rate wont be unusual

DeVore

road_high wrote: »

Yes people got the virus and died. It’s tragic. We know that else we wouldn’t be here discussing it. We are all aware of the fact anyone can die from it.
But they also die from poverty, poor healthcare, mental health issues all of which permeate from a destroyed economy

Not anything like at this rate.

Spencer Brown

fr336 wrote: »

Are you saying there should have never been a lockdown, Spencer?

The lockdown was to flatten the curve...... which it has done. WTF is wrong with you? You seem genuinely unhinged.

gauchesnell

fr336 wrote: »

And the only reason it's apparently restricted to care settings at the moment is because of the bloomin' lockdown! Honestly how bad are people's memories? Pre lockdown there were cases coming out from many countries including the UK of fit and healthy young people ending up in intensive care with this. The lockdown is working. The same people calling for it to be lifted too soon (I mean too soon as in May) are exactly the types who called it "just the flu", "only affects the old" (so anyone older 60) etc at the start. Why would anyone listen to these fools?

Point well made - it seems like an age ago but before the current lockdown there were cases in schools and workplaces (my own work place included). I think a Dunnes employee was diagnosed and social media went mental.

Reopen too soon businesses will close again pretty quickly when cases increase again.

fr336

road_high wrote: »

Follow the paths Germany and other neighbours are on.

Ireland isn't Germany. The UK certainly isn't. Ireland's death rate per capita is not good enough. But yeah, let's compare with one of the best performing countries and get the show back on the road. We are all invincible here, after all.

Spanish Eyes

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So the future is some auld one on Joe Duffy whos spends her holiday on Lahinch? Have you been to Lahinch lately?

She spends her Winter in a gated community in Alicante. Like many others do too.

That's fine, we are all in lockdown variously. Bet she has the 183 days for Revenue residence sorted out.

Nah nah.

FintanMcluskey

DeVore wrote: »

Unless someone thinks that hospitals DO NOTHING to help, then they must agree that exceeding the hospitals capacity MUST therefore impact mortality.

ie: more people die if we do that.


So we shouldnt do that.


I really really cant make this f*cking clearer.

More people die if we havent money to treat them.

Hospital capicity isnt exceeded.

I really cant make this f#ucking clearer.

fr336

Spencer Brown wrote: »

The lockdown was to flatten the curve...... which it has done. WTF is wrong with you? You seem genuinely unhinged.

Pot and kettle. But I can't disagree, let's lift the lockdown in the morning. What do the governments know anyway.

Penfailed

niallo27 wrote: »

One of the largest construction groups in the country are back the 6th of May. Lots of things happening behind the scenes.

Who?

Cork Boy 53

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Deaths have averaged over 2020 so far. Nothing unusual. The height of this in the UK was only a 20 year peak. Didnt see any social media heros in 2000. We had more important things to worry about in 2000 like William Gates Y2k bug

Oh right. I suppose you believe that was scaremongering, over hyped, blah blah blah as well.

Icyseanfitz

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

If this was killing young healthy people it would effect the death rate. This years death rate wont be unusual

apart from the rather large global and domestic increase in the number of deaths is it?

Spencer Brown

fr336 wrote: »

Pot and kettle. But I can't disagree, let's lift the lockdown in the morning. What do the governments know anyway.

Honestly I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

FintanMcluskey

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

apart from the rather large global and domestic increase in the number of deaths is it?

Have you a source for a much greater toll over the 1st 4 months of this year

fr336

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

More people die if we havent money to treat them.

Hospital capicity isnt exceeded.

I really cant make this f#ucking clearer.

Every government in the world borrows at every other time. Your claim that hospitals will run out of money after a month or two is laughable. Absolutely laughable. What if there was a world war? Would states simply run out of money and the war would end?

Cork Boy 53

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

If this was killing young healthy people it would effect the death rate. This years death rate wont be unusual

Your magical crystal ball is showing that is it?

FintanMcluskey

fr336 wrote: »

Every government in the world borrows at every other time. Your claim that hospitals will run out of money after a month or two is laughable. Absolutely laughable. What if there was a world war? Would states simply run out of money and the war would end?

Have you seen what the economists are predicting?

Icyseanfitz

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Have you a source for a much greater toll over the 1st 4 months of this year

i am already at my wits end in this thread, i am not going to go try and back up the fact covid-19 is real and kills people, covid-19 isnt made up, it isnt the flu, it is something new that can and is killing people that wouldnt have died previously. From these rather simple facts we can extrapolate that 2020 will have a greater than average number of deaths.

fr336

Spencer Brown wrote: »

Honestly I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

I wish you well

Spencer Brown

fr336 wrote: »

I wish you well

Enjoy your flight

growleaves

Here from economist Siddhartha Sanghi is a graph (data from CDC) showing USA raw weekly death counts for the first three months of the year compared to previous years.

growleaves

Here from economist Siddhartha Sanghi is a graph (data from CDC) showing USA raw weekly death counts for the first three months of the year compared to previous years.

FintanMcluskey

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

i am already at my wits end in this thread, i am not going to go try and back up the fact covid-19 is real and kills people, covid-19 isnt made up, it isnt the flu, it is something new that can and is killing people that wouldnt have died previously. From these rather simple facts we can extrapolate that 2020 will have a greater than average number of deaths.

Ill break up your post to reply

kills people, covid-19 isnt made up, it isnt the flu, it is something new that can and is killing people that wouldnt have died previously
(Everyone that dies hasnt died previously)

From these rather simple facts we can extrapolate that 2020 will have a greater than average number of deaths
(No we can not suggest that)

Quantum Erasure

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Deaths have averaged over 2020 so far. Nothing unusual. The height of this in the UK was only a 20 year peak. Didnt see any social media heros in 2000. We had more important things to worry about in 2000 like William Gates Y2k bug

this is from 5 years ago, but


https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25

and this shows this year, and average for last 5 years



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_United_Kingdom


and we're not half way through this yet

Spanish Eyes

Ah many are going a bit Doo Lally at this stage. We have to give a bit of slack now and forgive things.

Icyseanfitz

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ill break up your post to reply

kills people, covid-19 isnt made up, it isnt the flu, it is something new that can and is killing people that wouldnt have died previously
(Everyone that dies hasnt died previously)

From these rather simple facts we can extrapolate that 2020 will have a greater than average number of deaths
(No we can not suggest that)

:pac: jesus christ, I am out, you win

Spanish Eyes

Best to keep the humour up now, the stats are just so depressing, even though I know we are not the worst either, and we are told we are nearing the peak (or maybe we have done so already) and it's all great. For everyone.

Can't see it myself, even with my optimistic hat on. The new normal beckons. And we may have to get used to it.

FintanMcluskey

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Best to keep the humour up now, the stats are just so depressing, even though I know we are not the worst either, and we are told we are nearing the peak (or maybe we have done so already) and it's all great. For everyone.

Can't see it myself, even with my optimistic hat on. The new normal beckons. And we may have to get used to it.

I agree. The stats are completely depressing. Worst economic depression since the 30s. But we can stop this

Quantum Erasure

growleaves wrote: »

Here from economist Siddhartha Sanghi is a graph (data from CDC) showing USA raw weekly death counts for the first three months of the year compared to previous years.

thats up to the 10th of march, when there were a total of 32 deaths in the US attributed to Covid. anything more recent?

johnboy1298

I have been following this thread for a while but didn't post. I think at this stage the total shutdown has gone on long enough and the time has come to begin relaxing restrictions. The lockdown does not prevent anything it merely pauses the whole process allowing us to get hospitals, ppe social distancing measures in place, this has now been done and it is time to allow the virus to proceed.

The virus will not just dissappear like magic and the wait for a vaccine (which is not a guarantee with a coronavirus) is just too long to sustain this. There is much more benefit at this stage in allowing the less vulnerable to return to normality relatively fast as it means the supports and measures that have been put in place for the vulnerable can be maintained for longer. The reality is younger people have died from this but if you breakdown the numbers in countries like Italy they really suggest that this virus is targeting the old and those on the way out more than anything. The risk to anyone of working age isn't overly concerning despite what the media says.

The bury your head in the sand until it goes away approach will not work. It is however most definitely affecting people socially and financially and the longer we do this the more noticeable that is becoming.

growleaves

thats up to the first week in march, anything more recent?

No. I read the CDC are now stalling on releasing mortality figures.

Peter Hitchens had a good article on the UK bump in figures:

An attempt to grapple with figures on the Covid crisis (warning, no conclusion). Revised 21st April 2020

moonage

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

i am already at my wits end in this thread, i am not going to go try and back up the fact covid-19 is real and kills people, covid-19 isnt made up, it isnt the flu, it is something new that can and is killing people that wouldnt have died previously. From these rather simple facts we can extrapolate that 2020 will have a greater than average number of deaths.

Yes, there'll be more deaths. A lot of them will be from the effects of the lockdown itself.

The lockdown is totally out of proportion to the threat. We're acting like it's the bubonic plague rather than a flu-like illness that 99.8%+ of the population will cope with.

Spencer Brown

johnboy1298 wrote: »

I have been following this thread for a while but didn't post. I think at this stage the total shutdown has gone on long enough and the time has come to begin relaxing restrictions. The lockdown does not prevent anything it merely pauses the whole process allowing us to get hospitals, ppe social distancing measures in place, this has now been done and it is time to allow the virus to proceed.

Take cover

Quantum Erasure

growleaves wrote: »

No. I read the CDC are now stalling on releasing mortality figures.

Peter Hitchens had a good article on the UK bump in figures:

An attempt to grapple with figures on the Covid crisis (warning, no conclusion). Revised 21st April 2020

also, the author of that graphic has deleted that tweet

https://twitter.com/SidSanghi/status/1244674991662260227

https://twitter.com/SidSanghi/status/1244674992824102913

growleaves

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

also, the author of that graphic has deleted that tweet

https://twitter.com/SidSanghi/status/1244674991662260227

https://twitter.com/SidSanghi/status/1244674992824102913

I see.

Recent death data is usually hugely provisional.

For Ireland I could only get death data going as far forward as Dec 2018.

growleaves

By the time we get the final overall mortality data many, many people will have 'moved on' (to climate change?) or will claim its irrelevant (that's my prediction!)

FintanMcluskey

Spencer Brown wrote: »

Take cover

Haha that lad has just entered the real front line

FintanMcluskey

moonage wrote: »

Yes, there'll be more deaths. A lot of them will be from the effects of the lockdown itself.

The lockdown is totally out of proportion to the threat. We're acting like it's the bubonic plague rather than a flu-like illness that 99.8%+ of the population will cope with.

So far in Italy, of the over 65 population 0.2% have died. So its 99.8% of the over 65s will cope with

DellyBelly

I think we can safely. this virus is definitely going to be the story of the year. Unless the Queen dies maybe.. That would be the only thing to top it in my opinion.

growleaves

DellyBelly wrote: »

I think we can safely. this virus is definitely going to be the story of the year. Unless the Queen dies maybe.. That would be the only thing to top it in my opinion.

Not if she dies of Covid-19!!

FintanMcluskey

growleaves wrote: »

Not if she dies of Covid-19!!

Of or with Covid?

growleaves

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Of or with Covid?

Fintan you should know at this stage if someone leaps from a moving train running along a bridge into a giant gorge below - but they reportedly had a fever and cough beforehand - that's a covid death.

drunkmonkey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq9Gv7Uolsg

The lock downers here will love this. That's what they want life to be like. Arresting a mum in the playground.

JRant

Former GAA president Liam O'Neill on Virgin tonight scaremongering about how dangerous this is to children.

Then followed up by a boffin from academia saying we shouldn't be expecting a vaccine for 12/18 months and that just easing restrictions will lead to huge spike and we need to radically change how we live, basically turn us into a police state. If you get the virus then you, your family, and your contacts need to be forcibly quarantined by the army and police.

Mind you he did mention a 4 day week with a 10 day weekend where everyone quarantines but thinks this not the way to go.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum folks.