Relaxation of restrictions Part II

facehugger99

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think I'd be happy enough to pay a 1% levy for a while to get the country going again. This 350 subsidy and other supports costs us all, but am very glad they did it, takes the pressure off.

I know I will be told I am privileged, wealthy, can afford it etc. Doesn't matter what's thrown at me, it's a collective effort now, and those who can should be willing to step up to the plate.

Having said that, would anyone think that supermarkets, chemists and off licences, take aways etc. should pay something extra too going forward due to the fact that for weeks they are and probably will be the only elements of the economy that have been open.

If you think this is only going to cost you a "1% levy for a while", you a quite, quite deluded.

cian68

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

I disagree, I think we are ready for it now, serious easing of the lockdown from May 5th. .

What makes you think we are ready now? I would love for restrictions to be eased on May 5th but I wouldn't know if it is the time so I'm interested why you think it is.

awec

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think I'd be happy enough to pay a 1% levy for a while to get the country going again. This 350 subsidy and other supports costs us all, but am very glad they did it, takes the pressure off.

I know I will be told I am privileged, wealthy, can afford it etc. Doesn't matter what's thrown at me, it's a collective effort now, and those who can should be willing to step up to the plate.

Having said that, would anyone think that supermarkets, chemists and off licences, take aways etc. should pay something extra too going forward due to the fact that for weeks they have been the only elements of the economy that have been open. A Corporation tax levy for the extra time they could trade. Would obviously apply to other companies too.

1%? If only.

They introduced USC to plug the hole the last time, and that had rates up to 8% at the time. We're still paying it.

How would you feel if they doubled USC?

Spanish Eyes

facehugger99 wrote: »

If you think this is only going to cost you a "1% levy for a while", you a quite, quite deluded.

Ah I know that, it was just a figure plucked from the air. But the sentiment stays.

Penfailed

AdamD wrote: »

Class, lets lose 3 bank holidays. Life is great.


If they're going to do that I'd like to see them at least attempt to move the bank holiday to later in the year.

What?! ...why?

Spanish Eyes

awec wrote: »

1%? Try many multiples of that.

They introduced USC to plug the hole the last time, and that had rates up to 8% at the time. We're still paying it.

How would you feel if they doubled USC?

Might have to happen. I wouldn't be grinning from ear to ear, but what else is there. Welcome your own solutions to the hole in finances going forward.

BanditLuke

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

When and if it is reasonably safe to do so. Clearly we are not anywhere near that point now.

John is just desperate to make his Ryanair flight to Costa Del Sunny. It's all about John and feck everyone else.

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

Anyone who frames the question, as a choice between a economically-devastating lockdown on one hand and death on the other, can safely be dismissed as a moron.

I wouldn't waste my time even trying to argue with them.

A frame of mind exists where people have been lead to believe we are "saving lives". Another popular sound bite is "if we can't protect our most vulnerable we have failed as a society". Our most vulnerable are the ones that should be in school. They will suffer the longest, for the rest of their lives. The ones we are supposedly protecting wont suffer for long, a small number of years at best.
We have always sacrificed lives to ensure the future of society. Every war since time began sacrificed the fittest and strongest of society for the protection of the future.
We can only save a life up until a point that that life can no longer give life. Everything else is prolonging a life

Cork Boy 53

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

A frame of mind exists where people have been lead to believe we are "saving lives". Another popular sound bite is "if we can't protect our most vulnerable we have failed as a society". Our most vulnerable are the ones that should be in school. They will suffer the longest, for the rest of their lives. The ones we are supposedly protecting wont suffer for long, a small number of years at best.
We have always sacrificed lives to ensure the future of society. Every war since time began sacrificed the fittest and strongest of society for the protection of the future.
We can only save a life up until a point that that life can no longer give life. Everything else is prolonging a life

I suppose too you would be in favour of euthanizing the elderly as they have outlived their usefulness. Am I right?

awec

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Might have to happen. I wouldn't be grinning from ear to ear, but what else is there. Welcome your own solutions to the hole in finances going forward.

The solution is to minimise the hole as much as possible. We need to realise that the longer lockdown goes on, the worst it's going to be for everyone.

There are a few posters on here who have deluded themselves into thinking the financial consequences are going to be lower profits for corporations, and maybe giving up the sun holidays for a few years.

The reality is that many people are going to be completely ruined. They will have absolutely nothing, and the state will have nothing to give them. There is a human cost, and it is also going to cost lives.

We have to find the balance between being safe, and minimising covid as much as practically possible, with also ensuring that we aren't just rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic with the absolute tsunami of misery that's coming down the tracks.

The 350 dole was a good idea and necessary, but the flip side is it has given people a sense of comfort and a lack of appreciation of just how big a problem is heading their way.

FintanMcluskey

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I suppose too you would be in favour of euthanizing the elderly as they have outlived their usefulness. Am I right?

The lockdown wont save one single nursing home patient from the grim reaper. And even if you are in the dodgy age group you still arent at much risk of Covid bringing you.
What do you think is going to happen when we realise the death rate is completely stable overall this year? Someone will be held accountable for this mess

Spanish Eyes

Perhaps some are becoming complacent because the stats are veering towards a huge incidence of death and infection in care settings.

Maybe that makes some people think the virus won't affect them because they are young, healthy and their kids are healthy. Think about it long and hard though.

But I really think the emphasis on care settings in the stats will lead to rebellion by those who are not involved, do not have anyone in care homes and are young and invincible.

Strumms

omeara1113 wrote: »

Why is everyone so bent on the construction sector opening do ye not think them people deserve the same safety as everyone else.All I see posted here is restrictions will be relaxed ie. construction ,rediculous

Many political people have interests, investments and friends and or relatives in that sector and indeed high profile and influential constituents, even if they have reservations themselves they have to be ‘seen’ to be rattling the cages and enquiring. Money people follow the trail of money, not their conscience or the bigger picture ie. the greater good... you sit down for dinner with them in the evening it’s how much they made, how much they saved, how many corners they cut and how much extra they squeezed out of X bunch of employees etc... following the smell of green, all the way, to the trough.

BanditLuke

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I suppose too you would be in favour of euthanizing the elderly as they have outlived their usefulness. Am I right?

Plenty of posters here would in a heartbeat. They'll never admit it but all that matters to them is the economy not society.

Spanish Eyes

awec wrote: »

The solution is to minimise the hole as much as possible. We need to realise that the longer lockdown goes on, the worst it's going to be for everyone.

There are a few posters on here who have deluded themselves into thinking the financial consequences are going to be lower profits for corporations, and maybe giving up the sun holidays for a few years.

The reality is that many people are going to be completely ruined. They will have absolutely nothing, and the state will have nothing to give them. There is a human cost, and it is also going to cost lives.

We have to find the balance between being safe, and minimising covid as much as practically possible, with also ensuring that we aren't just rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic with the absolute tsunami of misery that's coming down the tracks.

The 350 dole was a good idea and necessary, but the flip side is it has given people a sense of comfort and a lack of appreciation of just how big a problem is heading their way.

A rare compassionate post.

I'm on the side of those who will suffer financially, and I will take it on the chin to help out. I'm no fekkin saint, but could afford to do it now. I dunno what the outcome will be, sounds quite grim really.

FintanMcluskey

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Perhaps some are becoming complacent because the stats are veering towards a huge incidence of death and infection in care settings.

Maybe that makes some people think the virus won't affect them because they are young, healthy and their kids are healthy. Think about it long and hard though.

But I really think the emphasis on care settings in the stats will lead to rebellion by those who are not involved, do not have anyone in care homes and are young and invincible.

No but anyone with young kids and working to provide a living is starting to realise what happening. Someones kids is number 1, and the future of those kids is number one. Whos future is worth more? We have chosen the elderly future. That was a choice.

fr336

BanditLuke wrote: »

Plenty of posters here would in a heartbeat. They'll never admit it but all that matters to them is the economy not society.

There is no such thing as society, as their hero Maggie once said. Except when it comes to that same society (i.e. our bloody taxes) bailing out banks and big business time and time again... There is also a lack of appreciation from these people of how society functions and how their apparent success may not always be down to their genius and them alone. But hey ho

awec

BanditLuke wrote: »

Plenty of posters here would in a heartbeat. They'll never admit it but all that matters to them is the economy not society.

It never ceases to amaze me just how slow some posters are on here.

Have people still not grasped that without an economy is there is no society? Without an economy, there is no health service. Without an economy, we cannot fight covid19. It is impossible.

"Blah blah blah you just care about making money". No, I care about people being able to feed and house their family. I care that when they go to the doctor, the doctor has the equipment and medicine required to treat them. I care that they can pay their mortgage / rent every month.

I wonder if you'll be so smug to the faces of the families who'll be queueing at the foodbanks before hiking back to their shelters after this?

Cork Boy 53

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The lockdown wont save one single nursing home patient from the grim reaper. And even if you are in the dodgy age group you still arent at much risk of Covid bringing you.
What do you think is going to happen when we realise the death rate is completely stable overall this year? Someone will be held accountable for this mess

What makes you think it will be completely stable overall this year? What evidence do you have for that statement?

lord quackinton

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/three-day-week-and-16-minimum-wage-would-build-a-better-world-after-covid-19-39147688.html

Behind a pay wall but please be wary of headlines like this
The writer has a handy job with a university whose wage is paid by the tax payer

Someone should explain how inflation works to him
A basic Economics fact is
tax something more you create less of it and
Subsidy something more the more you create of it
The more you tax work and wealth the less there will be
The more you subside the welfare state the bigger the expenditure will be on it

We can rebuild our nation to be something great
Slash taxes and slash welfare the quicker we will turn this country around
We need to let working people keep more of their money
Abolish the minimum wage
Make it a law that all public sector pensions being claimed must pay a non refundable withholding tax of 30% on the euro to revenue
All of these pensions are too generous and were not earned
Abolish all welfare payment like jobseekers disability and carers and replace with 1 payment capped at 400
No child benefit for those who do not work
Abolish happ and all rent supplements
Abolish RTB
Encourage by way of allowance the private market to house those who won’t house themselves
Stop all immigration including economic migration ( asylum seekers) so there is less competition for housing and jobs

We can do this

AdamD

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

FYP.

Ah yes, actually enjoying our lives isn't important.

stephenjmcd wrote: »

You do realise that the last thing employers will want when they get staff back in is to lose them for even 1 day. In my own job we're being told to take any planned time off over the summer if possible as the industry we're in they expect a significant bounce back and increased workload September through to Christmas.

Not everyone has stopped working during this

Penfailed wrote: »

What?! ...why?

God forbid we actually get a bank holiday we can fully enjoy

It would be a pretty simple move, didn't think it was that outrageous.

fr336

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What do you think is going to happen when we realise the death rate is completely stable overall this year? Someone will be held accountable for this mess

Where do you get the impression that will be the case? And would it be the case without a lockdown? Are you happy to be held accounable if a badly managed easing of restrictions leads to exponential growth in cases and deaths?

MD1990

awec wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me just how slow some posters are on here.

Have people still not grasped that without an economy is there is no society? Without an economy, there is no health service. Without an economy, we cannot fight covid19. It is impossible.

"Blah blah blah you just care about making money". No, I care about people being able to feed and house their family. I care that when they go to the doctor, the doctor has the equipment and medicine required to treat them. I care that they can pay their mortgage / rent every month.

I wonder if you'll be so smug to the faces of the families who'll be queueing at the foodbanks before hiking back to their shelters after this?

I agree.

People could genuinely struggle for food if the economy is stopped until a vaccine

FintanMcluskey

fr336 wrote: »

Where do you get the impression that will be the case? And would it be the case without a lockdown? Are you happy to be held accounable if a badly managed easing of restrictions leads to exponential growth in cases and deaths?

Read Dr Marcus Brun's report from last week. The guy was appointed by Simon Harris to medical council. He resigned.

fr336

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

A frame of mind exists where people have been lead to believe we are "saving lives". Another popular sound bite is "if we can't protect our most vulnerable we have failed as a society". Our most vulnerable are the ones that should be in school. They will suffer the longest, for the rest of their lives. The ones we are supposedly protecting wont suffer for long, a small number of years at best.
We have always sacrificed lives to ensure the future of society. Every war since time began sacrificed the fittest and strongest of society for the protection of the future.
We can only save a life up until a point that that life can no longer give life. Everything else is prolonging a life

This is hilarious. The best bit of the get the show back on the road crowd is their use of other segments of society to justify their argument, in this case schoolkids. "Oh won't someone think of the schoolkids, they're losing out on their education and will pay for the rest of their lives". School terms can be rearranged, kids can still be educated. You can't bring people back to life. It seems your actual concern is the economy and money.

FintanMcluskey

fr336 wrote: »

This is hilarious. The best bit of the get the show back on the road crowd is their use of other segments of society to justify their argument, in this case schoolkids. "Oh won't someone think of the schoolkids, they're losing out on their education and will pay for the rest of their lives". School terms can be rearranged, kids can still be educated. You can't bring people back to life. It seems your actual concern is the economy and money.

Your arrogance towards the younger generation is typical of the argument of relentless lockdown. Its twisted to expect them to spend their lives paying for poor decisions made now

BanditLuke

fr336 wrote: »

There is no such thing as society, as their hero Maggie once said. Except when it comes to that same society (i.e. our bloody taxes) bailing out banks and big business time and time again... There is also a lack of appreciation from these people of how society functions and how their apparent success may not always be down to their genius and them alone. But hey ho

It's the same posters time and again with the same old yarn. Some of them are losing the plot with our soft lockdown and having to spend time away from work and with their families.

They don't care about what sacrifices our elders made for us in forming our country and keeping us afloat in times of peril. They had no skiing holiday, no shopping trips to NY, two weeks in the south of France, two cars (most barely had a car at all), great healthcare etc..and now when our elderly need us the most it's fvuk them.

As you say Maggie worshippers.

road_high

fr336 wrote: »

Do it every day myself. Lovely sunny walks. Doesn't mean I want people crammed into offices and public transport again during the week and crammed into shopping centres at the weekend.

Yes but at the moment you can’t even drive up a mountain without a Garda interrogation and turnaround and outraging post on social media from their “busy” teams

FintanMcluskey

BanditLuke wrote: »

It's the same posters time and again with the same old yarn. Some of them are losing the plot with our soft lockdown and having to spend time away from work and with their families.

They don't care about what sacrifices our elders made for us in forming our country and keeping us afloat in times of peril. They had no skiing holiday, no shopping trips to NY, two weeks in the south of France, two cars (most barely had a car at all), great healthcare etc..and now when our elderly need us the most it's fvuk them.

As you say Maggie worshippers.

You have a chip on shoulder about successful people reading your post. If people educated themselves and worked hard to go to France so be it. Those people working hard enough to do those things pay enough taxes to keep 10 guys on the dole supplied with fags and booze.

normanoffside

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

What makes you think it will be completely stable overall this year? What evidence do you have for that statement?

The total deaths from nursing home residents are now 60% of total and as a % that figure is rising every day. It indicates that every day a higher % of deaths are coming from these clusters
This is due to a monumental f**k up in government planning by failing to cocoon the vulnerable, test them and those coming in contact with them (i.e. Nursing home staff).

The Government were too busy planning for a surge in the general population (e.g. building a huge capacity of beds in ICU and step down centres like in City west which haven't been used) and took their eye of the ball regards the most vulnerable people.

No amount of lock down restrictions are going to help solve the big problem where it actually is.

At this stage 'Lock Down' is just optics to take attention away from government failure.