Green Party wish list.

Tell me how

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Worst thing about the Greens is their nauseating middle classness.

At least the SF voters don't necessarily know any better. Without education and intellectual firepower one might believe that money grows on trees and everything should be free and paid for by someone else. The working and welfare classes in Ireland have always needed to be "looked after". They're scared about the modern world and the drift of wealth towards brain over brawn.

Greens have no such excuse. Usually university educated and middle class backgrounds, their issue is a more of a blind brain washing and middle class virtue signalling. I hate this idea of "we all must do our part"...BS. Close down the vast chemical and steel factories in India and China, then and only then will we have a look at spotlessly clean Ireland - a country which let's remind ourselves never actually went through an industrial revolution.

Don't know if you are aware of this, but we cannot directly influence what governments do in China or India.

However, if we were part of a strong Europe that got to the point on focusing on sustainability because all countries within the EU were practicing it within their own jurisdictions, then China and India may see that they have to change or it will impact on their economies.

When was it ever an excuse that one shouldn't do something because someone else is doing worse?
That's like suggesting I should be allowed to shoplift because there are criminals elsewhere carrying out bigger crimes.

Shefwedfan

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Worst thing about the Greens is their nauseating middle classness.

At least the SF voters don't necessarily know any better. Without education and intellectual firepower one might believe that money grows on trees and everything should be free and paid for by someone else. The working and welfare classes in Ireland have always needed to be "looked after". They're scared about the modern world and the drift of wealth towards brain over brawn.

Greens have no such excuse. Usually university educated and middle class backgrounds, their issue is a more of a blind brain washing and middle class virtue signalling. I hate this idea of "we all must do our part"...BS. Close down the vast chemical and steel factories in India and China, then and only then will we have a look at spotlessly clean Ireland - a country which let's remind ourselves never actually went through an industrial revolution.

I posted already, our CO2 per capita is 7.7, China is 8....not a huge pile of difference to be honest. Especially when you consider Ireland is not a big manufacturing country so we should be a lot cleaner

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I posted already, our CO2 per capita is 7.7, China is 8....not a huge pile of difference to be honest. Especially when you consider Ireland is not a big manufacturing country so we should be a lot cleaner

it really helps china to firstly be a country that routinely lies, but also has a mass amount of people who live in such abject poverty that they don't have enough fuel to burn and keep warm or produce co2. China is much worse than Ireland and not something to benchmark ourselves against If you take Shenzhen or any of the big manufacturing cities and rank them against Ireland, we practically look like angels.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it really helps china to firstly be a country that routinely lies, but also has a mass amount of people who live in such abject poverty that they don't have enough fuel to burn and keep warm or produce co2. China is much worse than Ireland and not something to benchmark ourselves against If you take Shenzhen or any of the big manufacturing cities and rank them against Ireland, we practically look like angels.

So you agree, we should forget about China, and focus on what we can do ourselves.

Micky 32

Tell me how wrote: »

Micky, at no point did I say that a pandemic and the climate issue are the same thing.

I said that the scientists views on both should be listened to.

It's quite worrying that you can not grasp this simple point.

You compared it though when they’re clearly apple vs oranges. The scientists weren’t too sure about the pandemic at the start though, nothing to worry about. I guess they are all human :P

Micky 32

Tell me how wrote: »

Fine, lets call it the smoking in enclosed spaces ban. Same point applies.



I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

Can you answer the question, should one persons freedom be maintained, if it impacts on another persons quality of life?

You know exactly what point I’m making you choose not to hear it.

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it really helps china to firstly be a country that routinely lies, but also has a mass amount of people who live in such abject poverty that they don't have enough fuel to burn and keep warm or produce co2. China is much worse than Ireland and not something to benchmark ourselves against If you take Shenzhen or any of the big manufacturing cities and rank them against Ireland, we practically look like angels.

I dont want to benchmark Ireland v anyone. I would prefer if we looked after our own s**t

Tell me how

Micky 32 wrote: »

You compared it though when they’re clearly apple vs oranges. The scientists weren’t too sure about the pandemic at the start though, nothing to worry about. I guess they are all human :P

I compared the stance of scientists in relation to both, if you think otherwise, please quote the post where you think I did a direct comparison.

Tell me how

Micky 32 wrote: »

You know exactly what point I’m making you choose not to hear it.

I don't. Please explain it.

Or I'll take it that you don't think one persons freedom entitles them to negatively impact on another persons quality of life.

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont want to benchmark Ireland v anyone. I would prefer if we looked after our own s**t

and so far our green pontificators only way to do that is to tax necessity out of existence...

We produce 1201 megawatts of electricity from peat and oil and a further 592 megawatts from heavy fuel oil (non distilled)

2x 2017 design VVER-1200 nuclear reactors could replace that entire lot in on demand power and massively slash co2 output.

Micky 32

Tell me how wrote: »

Listen to the scientists. This episode has enforced that message in bright lights.

One example, using this “episode” to fuel your alarmism about climate change when it totally has nothing to do with it.

Here’s a question for you. I’m self employed and my job is calling to houses for a fairly important job , even in the crisis it’s considered an essential service, so I get lots of freedom in the lockdown. However my job entails me driving 1000km a week. Do you think I should quit my job so Mr Ryans cabbages will grow quicker and greener in his window sill?

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and so far our green pontificators only way to do that is to tax necessity out of existence...

We produce 1201 megawatts of electricity from peat and oil and a further 592 megawatts from heavy fuel oil (non distilled)

2x 2017 design VVER-1200 nuclear reactors could replace that entire lot in on demand power and massively slash co2 output.

Mainstream power, a company started by the old owners of Airtricity have better options.....all renewable.

Shefwedfan

Micky 32 wrote: »

One example, using this “episode” to fuel your alarmism about climate change when it totally has nothing to do with it.

Here’s a question for you. I’m self employed and my job is calling to houses for a fairly important job , even in the crisis it’s considered an essential service, so I get lots of freedom in the lockdown. However my job entails me driving 1000km a week. Do you think I should quit my job so Mr Ryans cabbages will grow quicker and greener in his window sill?

Did anyone ask you to quit your job?

Tell me how

Micky 32 wrote: »

One example, using this “episode” to fuel your alarmism about climate change when it totally has nothing to do with it.

Here’s a question for you. I’m self employed and my job is calling to houses for a fairly important job , even in the crisis it’s considered an essential service, so I get lots of freedom in the lockdown. However my job entails me driving 1000km a week. Do you think I should quit my job so Mr Ryans cabbages will grow quicker and greener in his window sill?

Why in the name of God do you think that I would advocate that you quit your job if it is as you say it is?


Also, you took from that quote that I think that the pandemic and the climate issue are the same thing? For the love of god man.....

Micky 32

Tell me how wrote: »

I don't. Please explain it.

Or I'll take it that you don't think one persons freedom entitles them to negatively impact on another persons quality of life.

Your freedom today is because some soldiers lost their lives or had their legs blown off that ended up in wheel chairs that resulted in lower quality of life. So you have the cheek to ask me that question? There’s no evidence that my life is impacting on someone else’s no more than yours...

What about the third world starving people? ( nothing to do with climate change) Do you think your lifestyle has any bearing on it the last 40 + years?

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mainstream power, a company started by the old owners of Airtricity have better options.....all renewable.

theres a struggle for 'on demand' power from renewables and wind turbines have issues beyond them just being an eyesore. Hydraulic storage is more efficient than batteries but a nightmare to build.

Mixing nuclear, hydroelectric and some wind/wave is irelands best chance.

Micky 32

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did anyone ask you to quit your job?

I wasn’t asking you,

Tell me how

Micky 32 wrote: »

Your freedom today is because some soldiers lost their lives or had their legs blown off that ended up in wheel chairs that resulted in lower quality of life. So you have the cheek to ask me that question? There’s no evidence that my life is impacting on someone else’s no more than yours...

This is off the charts level of equivocating.

How has previous wars got anything to do with whether one person should be allowed to do something which negatively impacts on the life of another?
Those soldiers fought so that their fellow citizens would not have their life impact on by being oppressed or overruled.
Not so that one person can do whatever they want irrespective of consequences to their neighbor. This soldier analogy is enforcing the point that one persons rights are not greater than that of wider society.

Micky 32 wrote: »

What about the third world starving people? ( nothing to do with climate change) Do you think your lifestyle has any bearing on it the last 40 + years?

No. Not in a way in which I can influence.

Micky 32

Tell me how wrote: »

Covid-19 has shown us two things. Listen to the scientists, and act as early as possible.

.

Once again comparing apples and oranges. People were listening to the scientists at the start and we were told nothing to worry about.

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

theres a struggle for 'on demand' power from renewables and wind turbines have issues beyond them just being an eyesore. Hydraulic storage is more efficient than batteries but a nightmare to build.

Mixing nuclear, hydroelectric and some wind/wave is irelands best chance.

Mainstream plan was to stick wind turbines into the sea, also solar in the sea....very high level

You also have wave, I think it was 1km of coast would generate enough electricity for all of ireland

You have thousand of acre of roof space available for solar

I’m not ruling out nuclear but it’s a bit of a jump yet, how much a nuclear station cost to build?

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Mainstream plan was to stick wind turbines into the sea, also solar in the sea....very high level

You also have wave, I think it was 1km of coast would generate enough electricity for all of ireland

You have thousand of acre of roof space available for solar

I’m not ruling out nuclear but it’s a bit of a jump yet, how much a nuclear station cost to build?

its not about cost to build, its ROI

The major published study on EROI, by Weissbach et al (2013, since the early editions of this paper) states: “The results show that nuclear, hydro, coal, and natural gas power systems (in this order) are one order of magnitude more effective than photovoltaics and wind power,” particularly when any energy storage is factored in for intermittent renewables.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360544213000492

nuclear's the winner.

Tell me how

Micky 32 wrote: »

Once again comparing apples and oranges. People were listening to the scientists at the start and we were told nothing to worry about.

So, can you give me an example where the scientific community said that there was nothing to worry about where they were acting entirely impartially, versus the message from scientists who were informed on the disease.

There are scientists who say don't worry about human influence on the climate, but they are outweighed by some 97% by those who say we must act.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not about cost to build, its ROI

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360544213000492

nuclear's the winner.

So, is your position going forward going to be, that action is needed on the climate, and it should be nuclear power rather than fossil fuel?

Because getting you to that place is positive rather than saying that there is no need for action.

Micky 32

Tell me how wrote: »

So, can you give me an example where the scientific community said that there was nothing to worry about where they were acting entirely impartially, versus the message from scientists who were informed on the disease.

.

Remind me, why did your president withdraw funds from the WHO?

Tell me how

Micky 32 wrote: »

Remind me, why did your president withdraw funds from the WHO?

He didn't.

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

So, is your position going forward going to be, that action is needed on the climate, and it should be nuclear power rather than fossil fuel?

Because getting you to that place is positive rather than saying that there is no need for action.

This is the only way I can see us achieving the green parties requests for reductions in output, especially as increasing demand for electricity due to electric cars and heat pump heating puts more pressure on the grid.

I still think as a planet we're pissing into the wind until Asia, afica and South America gets its act together and think politically our efforts should rest on sanctioning and condemning the nations in those continents for their flagrant abuse.

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not about cost to build, its ROI
nuclear's the winner.

I’m not saying nuclear is not the winner but how do you pay for it?

The world is in turmoil and are credit rating ain’t the best, plus based on previous projects we ain’t the best at building and staying in budget, so if it cost 5 billion in France to build one we would expect 10 billion here

Micky 32

Tell me how wrote: »

He didn't.

Well he threatened to.

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I’m not saying nuclear is not the winner but how do you pay for it?

The world is in turmoil and are credit rating ain’t the best, plus based on previous projects we ain’t the best at building and staying in budget, so if it cost 5 billion in France to build one we would expect 10 billion here

Let a private company build and run it, no government involvement. It would be a disaster if we let the government be involved.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is the only way I can see us achieving the green parties requests for reductions in output, especially as increasing demand for electricity due to electric cars and heat pump heating puts more pressure on the grid.

I still think as a planet we're pissing into the wind until Asia, afica and South America gets its act together and think politically our efforts should rest on sanctioning and condemning the nations in those continents for their flagrant abuse.

Ok, so your future message will be there is such a need for action on the climate, that you want to see the Irish government try to enforce action through advocating via EU trade deals that climate concerns become a driving factor of any negotiations.

Is that a fair way to say what your stance is?