Green Party wish list.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I love that second one.

Why? Do you not think there is a need for action on the climate?

Blaze420

Tell me how wrote: »

The climate issue will negatively impact on jobs and economies and as a consequence the security of life as we know it and societies world wide.

You only see that as non real world because it is not affecting you right now.

That's not me, that's what the scientists are saying.

And with CV19 would you not be worried about something like that wiping us out than climate change? Because it’s a hell of a lot more realistic than ice caps melting and blah blah blah. A more vicious virus like this and emission targets or climate goals will be the last of humanity’s worries.

Tell me how

Blaze420 wrote: »

And with CV19 would you not be worried about something like that wiping us out than climate change? Because it’s a hell of a lot more realistic than ice caps melting and blah blah blah. A more vicious virus like this and emission targets or climate goals will be the last of humanity’s worries.

It's not an either or situation.

Governance should take in to account expert opinion in order to base their policies. Expert opinion previously said healthcare was unprepared for a pandemic, their advice was ignored, panic has ensued.

Expert opinion is saying we need to act in relation to the climate and sustainability.
You are saying to ignore it.

Blaze420

Tell me how wrote: »

It's not an either or situation.

Governance should take in to account expert opinion in order to base their policies. Expert opinion previously said healthcare was unprepared for a pandemic, their advice was ignored, panic has ensued.

Expert opinion is saying we need to act in relation to the climate and sustainability.
You are saying to ignore it.

I’m saying ignore it because right now at this moment in time, our economy is in sleep mode. Jobs are being lost, jobs have been laid off and some jobs will never come back. We are already paying to keep these people afloat and rightly so. Now fast forward 3/5 months - we have a desperate struggle to reduce the unemployment rate, bring jobs back online and get the country moving again to some sort of normality.

Do you honestly honestly think anybody in that scenario gives a **** about climate change or actions to handle it? Genuine question. I certainly don’t, I’m more concerned with feeding my family and keeping my job at this time than I am about ice caps or the other bull**** the eco lunatics have in their bag. Climate change as a topic is finished - it’s done and dusted for at least 2-4 years. You might not like that but that’s truth

Shefwedfan

Blaze420 wrote: »

I’m saying ignore it because right now at this moment in time, our economy is in sleep mode. Jobs are being lost, jobs have been laid off and some jobs will never come back. We are already paying to keep these people afloat and rightly so. Now fast forward 3/5 months - we have a desperate struggle to reduce the unemployment rate, bring jobs back online and get the country moving again to some sort of normality.

Do you honestly honestly think anybody in that scenario gives a **** about climate change or actions to handle it? Genuine question. I certainly don’t, I’m more concerned with feeding my family and keeping my job at this time than I am about ice caps or the other bull**** the eco lunatics have in their bag. Climate change as a topic is finished - it’s done and dusted for at least 2-4 years. You might not like that but that’s truth

Maybe for you, for the rest of us it isn’t, if anything this gives us a chance to reboot the whole green agenda

Your talking about feeding you family and then in same statement saying the green agenda is over, that’s incredibly short sighted

The green agenda if done right can actually restart the economy, not stall it

Blaze420

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Maybe for you, for the rest of us it isn’t, if anything this gives us a chance to reboot the whole green agenda

Your talking about feeding you family and then in same statement saying the green agenda is over, that’s incredibly short sighted

The green agenda if done right can actually restart the economy, not stall it

The green agenda here as we’ve seen time and time again resorts to taxes, taxes, taxes. Nothing innovative, nothing new just hardship for 99% of the country under the guise of “limits” this and “targets” that. The green agenda can and **** itself for the next 4 years because there are much more important things to be dealt with now.

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

Why? Do you not think there is a need for action on the climate?

and see this is the false narrative injected. I do not believe the green parties policies or proposed solutions are worth the economic detraction to make. I have no problem with anyone trying some scientifically beneficial solutuions for climate change, but only in a tax neutral or tax incentive based economic manor.

Calhoun

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Maybe for you, for the rest of us it isn’t, if anything this gives us a chance to reboot the whole green agenda

Your talking about feeding you family and then in same statement saying the green agenda is over, that’s incredibly short sighted

The green agenda if done right can actually restart the economy, not stall it

This is the same green party who had a motion before the election to bring our economy into degrowth. Who are also playing from the same playbook as they did the last time they were in power.

Maybe i am wrong though as If they are to change the playbook now is the time to do it as we are facing into a recession. It would be interesting to see how well they hold support when the reality of a recession bites into peoples bottom lines.

Blaze420

Calhoun wrote: »

This is the same green party who had a motion before the election to bring our economy into degrowth. Who are also playing from the same playbook as they did the last time they were in power.

Maybe i am wrong though as If they are to change the playbook now is the time to do it as we are facing into a recession. It would be interesting to see how well they hold support when the reality of a recession bites into peoples bottom lines.

Well their demand of 7% is already being laughed out of the building, even with a virus and reduced air and road travel we hit 5. So imagine the lockdown but even worse and you have a view of what these cretins think they can achieve.

Tell me how

Blaze420 wrote: »

I’m saying ignore it because right now at this moment in time, our economy is in sleep mode. Jobs are being lost, jobs have been laid off and some jobs will never come back. We are already paying to keep these people afloat and rightly so. Now fast forward 3/5 months - we have a desperate struggle to reduce the unemployment rate, bring jobs back online and get the country moving again to some sort of normality.

Do you honestly honestly think anybody in that scenario gives a **** about climate change or actions to handle it? Genuine question. I certainly don’t, I’m more concerned with feeding my family and keeping my job at this time than I am about ice caps or the other bull**** the eco lunatics have in their bag. Climate change as a topic is finished - it’s done and dusted for at least 2-4 years. You might not like that but that’s truth

I'm not saying that Green focus has to be priority now above everything else, but it absolutely has to be part of the conversation.

You and your family are going to be impacted negatively through inaction on the climate, that is a fact. What is to be determine is just how soon, but the scientists are saying that action is required or when the impact comes, it will not be possible to reverse it.

You might not like that, but that's the truth.

Shefwedfan

Calhoun wrote: »

This is the same green party who had a motion before the election to bring our economy into degrowth. Who are also playing from the same playbook as they did the last time they were in power.

Maybe i am wrong though as If they are to change the playbook now is the time to do it as we are facing into a recession. It would be interesting to see how well they hold support when the reality of a recession bites into peoples bottom lines.

I already explained how the green agenda could help Ireland get back in shape, it hasn’t been tried

Our old methods have and guess what, they don’t actually work, I know people are afraid of chnage but what’s the harm?

Have you seen the actually document for Green Party? When did they want to put the country into defrost?

Tell me how

Blaze420 wrote: »

Well their demand of 7% is already being laughed out of the building, even with a virus and reduced air and road travel we hit 5. So imagine the lockdown but even worse and you have a view of what these cretins think they can achieve.

7% reductions is what we need as part of our commitment to the Paris agreement.

If we don't achieve it, we pay massive penalties.

Do you think we shouldn't even bother trying?

Shefwedfan

Blaze420 wrote: »

Well their demand of 7% is already being laughed out of the building, even with a virus and reduced air and road travel we hit 5. So imagine the lockdown but even worse and you have a view of what these cretins think they can achieve.

No it wasn’t, like myself FF and FG asked to see how it could be achieved

Do I need to explain the 5% again? I’m sure it was you I explained to to already

Calhoun

Blaze420 wrote: »

Well their demand of 7% is already being laughed out of the building, even with a virus and reduced air and road travel we hit 5. So imagine the lockdown but even worse and you have a view of what these cretins think they can achieve.

It would certainly fit in with the degrowth agenda that green parties internationally and some of their local members have being considering. I am not sure what there growth plan was or where they planned to grow the economy though so maybe they had a good counterpoint.

Problem they face and its shown in the measures of this pandemic is people are very reluctant to make changes in the quality of life they have. Especially when the argument is we slow down while China/India are allowed do as they please.

Shefwedfan

Calhoun wrote: »

It would certainly fit in with the degrowth agenda that green parties internationally and some of their local members have being considering. I am not sure what there growth plan was or where they planned to grow the economy though so maybe they had a good counterpoint.

Problem they face and its shown in the measures of this pandemic is people are very reluctant to make changes in the quality of life they have. Especially when the argument is we slow down while China/India are allowed do as they please.

China CO2 per capita 8%
Ireland CO2 per capita 7.7%

No idea on India, but you need to find a new country to point at

Ireland isn’t even a manufacturing country like China so we should be massively less, so we are the dirty wee piggies

Blaze420

Tell me how wrote: »

7% reductions is what we need as part of our commitment to the Paris agreement.

If we don't achieve it, we pay massive penalties.

Do you think we shouldn't even bother trying?

There are no penalties coming, not after CV19 decimating economies across the world. Even FG have said they will discuss with greens but 7% is not a realistic figure. If you even think for a second the EU have the balls to even speak of environmental fines at a time like this you are deluded.

Tell me how

Calhoun wrote: »

It would certainly fit in with the degrowth agenda that green parties internationally and some of their local members have being considering. I am not sure what there growth plan was or where they planned to grow the economy though so maybe they had a good counterpoint.

Problem they face and its shown in the measures of this pandemic is people are very reluctant to make changes in the quality of life they have. Especially when the argument is we slow down while China/India are allowed do as they please.

This pandemic has shown that people are very willing to make changes when they realise the science demands it, and the government supports it.

Let's try to do what we can, and not try to absolve ourselves because of other countries.

Tell me how

Blaze420 wrote: »

There are no penalties coming, not after CV19 decimating economies across the world. Even FG have said they will discuss with greens but 7% is not a realistic figure. If you even think for a second the EU have the balls to even speak of environmental fines at a time like this you are deluded.

The science demands action.

What do you think is a realistic figure, and how do you think we should go about achieving it?

ricero

I look forward to this coaltion of doom. Yes we will suffer in the short-term, but I reckon then Sinn Fein will have a majority government within the next decade.

Calhoun

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I already explained how the green agenda could help Ireland get back in shape, it hasn’t been tried

Our old methods have and guess what, they don’t actually work, I know people are afraid of chnage but what’s the harm?

Have you seen the actually document for Green Party? When did they want to put the country into defrost?

What post number as i didnt see it.

The harm and the main thing people give a crap about is the quality of life they have and can it be sustained. More taxes and lesser services or a "promise" that things will get better down the line wont really comfort people.

I saw it back during the election phase. I am not sure what defrost is i assume you mean degrowth, one of their party offices in Dublin submitted it as a motion to go into their document but i guess it never made it in. However degrowth is something that talked about by other green parties globally and we would want to be very careful around anyone who uses the term.

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

China CO2 per capita 8%
Ireland CO2 per capita 7.7%

No idea on India, but you need to find a new country to point at

Ireland isn’t even a manufacturing country like China so we should be massively less, so we are the dirty wee piggies

If we put millions of people in such abject poverty as in china in connaught , we could start using proper coal to heat Dublin again and also come in on those numbers.

Also I wouldn't trust the accuracy of china reporting figures either.

Calhoun

Tell me how wrote: »

This pandemic has shown that people are very willing to make changes when they realise the science demands it, and the government supports it.

Let's try to do what we can, and not try to absolve ourselves because of other countries.

Official Ireland has been the good boy and we have taken this stuff seriously but i see allot of examples on a regular basis of people who are flouting the rules. For those who are compliant its on the understanding that its a short term situation.

Long term impacts to quality of life is not something that will fly easily.

I am not trying to absolve ourselves because of other countries, what i am saying is if anyone thinks that any society would willingly impact their quality of life to protect the environment while allowing another country do whatever they want then they are ridiculous.

Once the bite from economic uncertainty kicks in we will see where peoples true convictions are.

Blaze420

Tell me how wrote: »

The science demands action.

What do you think is a realistic figure, and how do you think we should go about achieving it?

I don’t care about climate change in the slightest but I would suggest 4% max. That could possibly be achieved through extended wfh schemes and less traffic on the roads but there is simply no way of hitting the bull**** 7% the greens are touting. If we have a lockdown with minimal veheicular traffic etc and can only reach 5, where and how do they think we will hit 7?

I must apologise to you by the way - some of my recent posts might have come across as brash and confrontational, I think you are a good logical poster. but in terms of this and the green agenda I cannot see eye to eye with you.

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

If we put millions of people in such abject poverty as in china in connaught , we could start using proper coal to heat Dublin again and also come in on those numbers.

Also I wouldn't trust the accuracy of china reporting figures either.

China doesn’t report it

Shefwedfan

Blaze420 wrote: »

I don’t care about climate change in the slightest but I would suggest 4% max. That could possibly be achieved through extended wfh schemes and less traffic on the roads but there is simply no way of hitting the bull**** 7% the greens are touting. If we have a lockdown with minimal veheicular traffic etc and can only reach 5, where and how do they think we will hit 7?

I must apologise to you by the way - some of my recent posts might have come across as brash and confrontational, I think you are a good logical poster. but in terms of this and the green agenda I cannot see eye to eye with you.

You don’t understand the 5% number so maybe stop quoting it

Tell me how

Calhoun wrote: »

Official Ireland has been the good boy and we have taken this stuff seriously but i see allot of examples on a regular basis of people who are flouting the rules. For those who are compliant its on the understanding that its a short term situation.

Long term impacts to quality of life is not something that will fly easily.

I am not trying to absolve ourselves because of other countries, what i am saying is if anyone thinks that any society would willingly impact their quality of life to protect the environment while allowing another country do whatever they want then they are ridiculous.

Once the bite from economic uncertainty kicks in we will see where peoples true convictions are.

In relation to the first bolded point.
There are no longer term impact greater than that of a destroyed environment.

What better way have we to set examples to other countries other than adhering to our commitments to an international agreement, which they have also signed up to?

Surely if we do so, we and others can point to the agreement and ask them to show their work?

Calhoun

Shefwedfan wrote: »

China CO2 per capita 8%
Ireland CO2 per capita 7.7%

No idea on India, but you need to find a new country to point at

Ireland isn’t even a manufacturing country like China so we should be massively less, so we are the dirty wee piggies

Oh man your so clever, my argument has been successfully countered and i am a fraud.

Thats the pity with strawmans though and not actually addressing the point being made they are basically designed to show the superiority of the person doing it.

Blaze420

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You don’t understand the 5% number so maybe stop quoting it

Another condescending eco warrior without a clue - if we are hitting 5% in a virus lockdown with minimal traffic/ air travel, where are you finding the extra 2% when things get back to some normality?

Shefwedfan

Calhoun wrote: »

What post number as i didnt see it.

The harm and the main thing people give a crap about is the quality of life they have and can it be sustained. More taxes and lesser services or a "promise" that things will get better down the line wont really comfort people.

I saw it back during the election phase. I am not sure what defrost is i assume you mean degrowth, one of their party offices in Dublin submitted it as a motion to go into their document but i guess it never made it in. However degrowth is something that talked about by other green parties globally and we would want to be very careful around anyone who uses the term.

Ok, quickly, ireland is on the Paris agreement, we are going to get hit with serious fines very soon, maybe not this year due to virus but next

Instead of spending millions on fines which is useless we invest the money this year into the economy, so start installing solar on mass to houses, insulation into houses, grants etc, if people are out of jobs offer them jobs if possible working in these companies

Then we go above our target and we can sell our CO2 credits to the hugest bidder next year and pump that money back into the economy

Let Ireland be the “green” capital of the world and then start to export our knowledge, we already have companies who are the world leaders. Mainstream been one

I got solar panels installed, I bought off company with Irish address, it was a team from north who installed and The expert set up guy flew in from the UK to do it, he was over for week

Now why can’t we do that ourselves and then export to Europe when they try to catch up?

Fann Linn

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok, quickly, ireland is on the Paris agreement, we are going to get hit with serious fines very soon, maybe not this year due to virus but next

Instead of spending millions on fines which is useless we invest the money this year into the economy, so start installing solar on mass to houses, insulation into houses, grants etc, if people are out of jobs offer them jobs if possible working in these companies

Then we go above our target and we can sell our CO2 credits to the hugest bidder next year and pump that money back into the economy

Let Ireland be the “green” capital of the world and then start to export our knowledge, we already have companies who are the world leaders. Mainstream been one

I got solar panels installed, I bought off company with Irish address, it was a team from north who installed and The expert set up guy flew in from the UK to do it, he was over for week

Now why can’t we do that ourselves and then export to Europe when they try to catch up?

Are they the same sort of fines we were promised under the FG/IW fiasco?