Green Party wish list.

markodaly

Grand, they can have another election and they will lose over half their TD's.

That's the trouble with the non-FF/FG parties. Too weak to actually stomach government and to make the hard choices.

Shefwedfan

McMurphy wrote: »

Doesn't exactly sound like the greens are chomping at the bit to accept whatever was thrown to them by FF/G

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/huge-unrest-in-greens-grassroots-at-fffgs-reply-to-their-demands-39169425.html

How many thread you going to post the same link?

The article has nothing in it, it’s pure tabloid, click bait rubbish . All it’s says in reality is the parties want to negotiate before going into government, no actually statement from anyone in the Greens

If you can find the link on your travels to how the Greens will get to 7% that should be posted

Shefwedfan

markodaly wrote: »

Grand, they can have another election and they will lose over half their TD's.

That's the trouble with the non-FF/FG parties. Too weak to actually stomach government and to make the hard choices.

Greens pull out now and they will be poison anyway as we will need to go to another election and they will get dumped

Nothing in that article anyway, if it even had a comment from one single member it would be worthwhile

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

Grand, they can have another election and they will lose over half their TD's.

That's the trouble with the non-FF/FG parties. Too weak to actually stomach government and to make the hard choices.

Lose them to whom?

Do you think FF/G might lose anymore?


I'm thinking that the national government actually promoted by E.R might be one massive regret by leo now, especially if the alternative is a fresh election.

Labour are so small to be irrelevant, and the SocDems already said no to FF/G.

Who knows, perhaps the greens will even eat into the FFG gene pool next election, further eroding their stranglehold over the country.

Even Yates on VM last night was talking about the "2 big party's" obviously forgetting about the last election result.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nothing in that article anyway, if it even had a comment from one single member it would be worthwhile

Theres 3 different named green party members commented and a statement from their youth wing??


Like,why lie on something so simple to find out?

average_runner

McMurphy wrote: »

Lose them to whom?

Do you think FF/G might lose anymore?


I'm thinking that the national government actually promoted by E.R might be one massive regret by leo now, especially if the alternative is a fresh election.

Labour are so small to be irrelevant, and the SocDems already said no to FF/G.

Who knows, perhaps the greens will even eat into the FFG gene pool next election, further eroding their stranglehold over the country.

Even Yates on VM last night was talking about the "2 big party's" obviously forgetting about the last election result.

FG dont want to in power so yes they he happy. Everyone knows the greens will just increase taxes and sinn Fein will fail to deliver on their promises as economy is now shattered for at least 18 months

McMurphy

Shefwedfan, it is not up to you to try and police threads, the link I posted to is entirely relevant to the two separate threads they where posted in. One was in direct response to a poster claiming the greens where most likely to get down to horse trading govt formation talks, and the other thread is this one - "Green Party Wishlist"

Separately from that, it is not up to me to "post a link to how the Greens may achieve the 7%" as I am of the belief that it cannot be implemented here without the country basically grinding to a complete halt, arguably much worse than it is now in "lockdown".

Lastly - serveral members from the Green party are named and quoted, you obviously read the first few paragraphs and then gave up on the rest.

Wicklow TD Steven Matthews told the Irish Independent the two larger parties "have committed to some of our objectives".


But he said "more detail and much firmer commitment is required" in relation to the Greens' demand for 7pc-per-year reduction in carbon emissions, as well as demands relating to housing and the scrapping of a planned Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) terminal project.

Another TD, Neasa Hourigan, shared a Twitter post by Sinn Féin TD Eoin Ó Broin in which he criticised the housing proposals made by Fianna Fáil/Fine Gael in their letter.

The party's youth wing, Young Greens, has argued that Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael aren't interested in the climate crisis and just want "a mudguard". Prominent party member Saoirse McHugh said the letter was "absolutely wocious" and added, "what a joke".

Cork City councillor Lorna Bogue said if Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are still not committing to the 7pc carbon emissions reduction target "it's clear the Greens should walk".

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

Lose them to whom?

The bigger parties.

Do you think FF/G might lose anymore?

FF maybe, FG no.

I'm thinking that the national government actually promoted by E.R might be one massive regret by leo now, especially if the alternative is a fresh election.

Nah, can you imagine the likes of RBB getting up on some soapbox inside the Dept. of Health. It would be sound bite heaven.

Labour is so small to be irrelevant, and the SocDems already said no to FF/G.

Who knows, perhaps the greens will even eat into the FFG gene pool next election, further eroding their stranglehold over the country.

Even Yates on VM last night was talking about the "2 big party's" obviously forgetting about the last election result.

Maybe, maybe not.

Can I ask, since you are always on the fence,

What do you want to happen?
What do you think will happen?

Because it seems like you are baking a cake, keeping it, selling it, and having it, all at the same time.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

The bigger parties.



FF maybe, FG no.




Nah, can you imagine the likes of RBB getting up on some soapbox inside the Dept. of Health. It would be sound bite heaven.



Maybe, maybe not.

Can I ask, since you are always on the fence,

What do you want to happen?
What do you think will happen?

Because it seems like you are baking a cake, keeping it, selling it, and having it, all at the same time.

I'm not always on the fence - I reckon I have posted about a dozen times (as a conservative estimate) in a thread you are extremely active in that one of two scenario's will most probably happen if the attempt to lure the greens in as Patsy's fails.

A fresh election - with the shinners possibly eroding more of FF/Gs seat share.

Or the national government idea.

You post in that thread often enough that I'm genuinely surprised you'd have missed it.


Anyone for cake though?

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

I'm not always on the fence - I reckon I have posted about a dozen times (as a conservative estimate) in a thread you are extremely active in that one of two scenario's will most probably happen if the attempt to lure the greens in as Patsy's fails.

A fresh election - with the shinners possibly eroding more of FF/Gs seat share.

Or the national government idea.

You post in that thread often enough that I'm genuinely surprised you'd have missed it.

OK, that is what you think will happen.

What do you want to happen?

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

OK, that is what you think will happen.

What do you want to happen?

I'd be happy enough with either scenario tbh, with a national govt, get on with trying to get the health pandemic behind us, no scapegoats, and a fresh election after a period of so many months (exactly as suggested by Ryan)

A fresh election might clarify the numbers.

What about yourself?

https://mobile.twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1255533478051024904

Had to blame greens for wanting to steer clear, halligan should stayed in north korea

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

I'd be happy enough with either scenario tbh, with a national govt, get on with trying to get the health pandemic behind us, no scapegoats, and a fresh election after a period of so many months (exactly as suggested by Ryan)

A fresh election might clarify the numbers.

What about yourself?

So, a unity government and lots of talk and horse-trading leading up to it, only so we can have another election anyway in a few month's time.

Not exactly the best way to spend one's time.

I think FF, FG and the Greens will make a deal, with a few indo's to make up numbers.

But I want a new election in a few months.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

So, a unity government and lots of talk and horse-trading leading up to it, only so we can have another election anyway in a few month's time.

Not exactly the best way to spend one's time.

I think FF, FG and the Greens will make a deal, with a few indo's to make up numbers.

But I want a new election in a few months.

Whats the difference between having a national government and election in few months time,vs what a ffg/greeb coalition and election in few months time


Imo,we wont be having any election,anytime soon,if a 2nd wave hits in middle of an election,it would be like pouring petrol onto a fire in terms of contagion/risk


They all need to grow up,and get in together in a national government until this thing is sorted,looking at anything upto 18 months imo

Shefwedfan

markodaly wrote: »

So, a unity government and lots of talk and horse-trading leading up to it, only so we can have another election anyway in a few month's time.

Not exactly the best way to spend one's time.

I think FF, FG and the Greens will make a deal, with a few indo's to make up numbers.

But I want a new election in a few months.

You want an election?


Personally I dont want to spend 50mil or so on another election when the country is trying to get back working

Eric Cartman

markodaly wrote: »

Grand, they can have another election and they will lose over half their TD's.

That's the trouble with the non-FF/FG parties. Too weak to actually stomach government and to make the hard choices.

and too childish to make concessions , the greens see themselves as kingmakers and are drawing red lines at points that would spell suicide for FF / FG to accept, especially from rural voters and motorists. The greens can't realise they don't hold enough power to force that hand.

Idbatterim

Tax work parking spaces, nominal charge to cross the canals. This might get some people who are being lazy out of cars, but not hit others who can only rely on car due to appalling public transport hard.

Make new taxis all electric, or just hit new diesel / petrol taxis with higher tax. Get dublin metro built. Nobody will disagree majorly with issues like these and you get the savings and improvements where vast majority of pollution and problems are, Dublin. It's also the not seen as the usual " attack on rural Ireland " bs!

Oh also free public transport outside peak hours. Honestly I'd way prefer to see the likes of what I have proposed , I believe cost of free public transport, would be six hundred million , so outside peak , nowhere near as much and might encourage employers to stagger hours more. I'd way prefer to see spending here , on big environmental and quality of life issues than blown on welfare increases etc...

I agree with the green movement, the green party here is just naive. Eric you hit the nail on the the head, what I proposed is how you go about pleading everyone.

PommieBast

McMurphy wrote: »

Lose them to whom?

SF mainly. The Green party is in a precarious position because a large portion of their TDs got elected via transfers from SD/Lab/PBP, and the latter in turn would be decimated if it was not for SF's surplus votes.

McMurphy wrote: »

Do you think FF/G might lose anymore

Anyone who voted FG this year would have been a committed supporter, so I don't foresee them going any lower.

Shefwedfan

Idbatterim wrote: »

Tax work parking spaces, nominal charge to cross the canals. This might get some people who are being lazy out of cars, but not hit others who can only rely on car due to appalling public transport hard.

Make new taxis all electric, or just hit new diesel / petrol taxis with higher tax. Get dublin metro built. Nobody will disagree majorly with issues like these and you get the savings and improvements where vast majority of pollution and problems are, Dublin. It's also the not seen as the usual " attack on rural Ireland " bs!

Oh also free public transport outside peak hours. Honestly I'd way prefer to see the likes of what I have proposed , I believe cost of free public transport, would be six hundred million , so outside peak , nowhere near as much and might encourage employers to stagger hours more. I'd way prefer to see spending here , on big environmental and quality of life issues than blown on welfare increases etc...

I agree with the green movement, the green party here is just naive. Eric you hit the nail on the the head, what I proposed is how you go about pleading everyone.

Parking spaces are already taxed, well BIK, not sure how it works as I dont have one.



Taxi already get huge discounts to buy electric, but no need to buy a new electric car when you can drive around an early 90s Toyota which is a death trap


Loads of Green policies in place, just people choose to ignore them

Shefwedfan

PommieBast wrote: »

SF mainly. The Green party is in a precarious position because a large portion of their TDs got elected via transfers from SD/Lab/PBP, and the latter in turn would be decimated if it was not for SF's surplus votes.



Anyone who voted FG this year would have been a committed supporter, so I don't foresee them going any lower.

The FF/FG number are not going to decrease. If anything if they held it now I think FG would see a massive jump because of the crisis. Would they take that from FF? I doubt it. It will come from the other voters


THe election was clearly a revolt election, anybody but FF/FG for some people. Are people really going to head back to the polls and elect back in the likes of Voilet Anne now they have seen what she is like?


I said it before, in my area a SF poltician got in, nobody knew him. He has done nothing in community, he was voted in. Not seen since either, while the FF/FG/Ind ahve all been out in commiunity helping during the crisis. WOuld he get back in? maybe but I doubt it

hmmm

The Greens have over-reached with their 7% demand. It's too big an economic hit, particularly considering Covid and the need to restore the economy. People aren't going to accept 20% unemployment for a year, and then be told they will need even more cutbacks to meet the 7% emissions cut.

I don't blame the Greens, they've been elected in a very different time to where we are now and are caught between a rock & a a hard place. They are now, unfortunately, politically toxic - and can neither afford to be in government, and can't afford to be out of it either.

I can see the FF/FG pitch to rural Ireland in a new election. Vote for us, or we'll have to go into coalition with the Greens.

Water John

Eamon Ryan knows he has a unique chance. Greens are about changing policy. FF and FG need them. This was quite clear the day after the results. Greens or Soc Dems and or Lb. MM knew it would be the Greens would be his target.
Now is the Greens unique opportunity.

Shefwedfan

hmmm wrote: »

The Greens have over-reached with their 7% demand. It's too big an economic hit, particularly considering Covid and the need to restore the economy. People aren't going to accept 20% unemployment for a year, and then be told they will need even more cutbacks to meet the 7% emissions cut.

I don't blame the Greens, they've been elected in a very different time to where we are now and are caught between a rock & a a hard place. They are now, unfortunately, politically toxic - and can neither afford to be in government, and can't afford to be out of it either.

I can see the FF/FG pitch to rural Ireland in a new election. Vote for us, or we'll have to go into coalition with the Greens.

I am not saying they have or have not on the 7%, what I would like to see is how they got to 7%? if it is plucked out of the air then its pointless, but if they have a distinct plan then it is worth reviewing

Tell me how

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not saying they have or have not on the 7%, what I would like to see is how they got to 7%? if it is plucked out of the air then its pointless, but if they have a distinct plan then it is worth reviewing

From yesterdays Irish Times.

So how do the Greens see Ireland reaching the 7 per cent target? Firstly by re-wetting Ireland’s boglands over a period of two decades, starting with 130,000 hectares - about half of the total - by 2030. This is done essentially by removing the drains put in for bog-cutting. This reverses peatlands from emitters to become carbon sinks. Politically this is fraught, as they will have to deal with traditional turf-cutting rights.

Another of its big projects is to increase energy from offshore wind farms to 5GW by 2030, and to 30GW by 2040. That is hugely ambitious.

First thing that needs to be said is that the 7% figure is not arbitrary, it is what is needed if we are to achieve the targets we committed to when signing up to the Paris Accord.

Another point that I think is worth making is that many (commentators/other parties/posters) seem to be putting it on the Greens to deliver exactly what will be done and to effectively own the reduction.
That would be like telling a handful of independents that they need to deliver a workable plan to entirely remove the housing crisis issue or to fix the healthcare situation in order for them to be considered.

It is passing the buck to put the weight of delivery solely on the shoulders of the Greens. The FG led government signed the country up to the Paris agreement. Asking the Greens to provide a comprehensive, pain free path to delivering on our commitments is completely unreasonable from many who on several other issues demand that the government be held to account. As it should be. FF/FG should be saying 'here is what needs to be done' as much as the Green Party.

hmmm

Tell me how wrote: »

First thing that needs to be said is that the 7% figure is not arbitrary, it is what is needed if we are to achieve the targets we committed to when signing up to the Paris Accord.

The world has changed, all these agreements will be out the window as we try to restart economies over the next 2/3/4 years.

The Green party needs to get into government to influence policy, as I think we will be so desperate to get certain sectors back up and running that we will write blank cheques in terms of policy. Imagine the airlines if they are out of action for 6 months, or even a year? Tourism, Hotels, Airlines will all be pressuring the government to drop any attempt to impose restrictions on them being restarted. The Greens cannot sit on the sidelines, unless they really want to be a part of protest only - for the good of what the greens represent, they need to be at the table where the decisions are made.

In order to do that however they are going to have to abandon hope of getting long-cherished policies through. The next government will have to be very nimble, and adapt very quickly to whatever situation develops. The timetable is being driven by the virus and the attempts to combat it.

Shefwedfan

Tell me how wrote: »

From yesterdays Irish Times.



First thing that needs to be said is that the 7% figure is not arbitrary, it is what is needed if we are to achieve the targets we committed to when signing up to the Paris Accord.

Another point that I think is worth making is that many (commentators/other parties/posters) seem to be putting it on the Greens to deliver exactly what will be done and to effectively own the reduction.
That would be like telling a handful of independents that they need to deliver a workable plan to entirely remove the housing crisis issue or to fix the healthcare situation in order for them to be considered.

It is passing the buck to put the weight of delivery solely on the shoulders of the Greens. The FG led government signed the country up to the Paris agreement. Asking the Greens to provide a comprehensive, pain free path to delivering on our commitments is completely unreasonable from many who on several other issues demand that the government be held to account. As it should be. FF/FG should be saying 'here is what needs to be done' as much as the Green Party.

The FG has constantly failed to deliver in terms of the green agenda. When they had the chance they buckled and done nothing.

Edgware

markodaly wrote: »

The bigger parties.



FF maybe, FG no.




Nah, can you imagine the likes of RBB getting up on some soapbox inside the Dept. of Health. It would be sound bite heaven.



Maybe, maybe not.

Can I ask, since you are always on the fence,

What do you want to happen?
What do you think will happen?

Because it seems like you are baking a cake, keeping it, selling it, and having it, all at the same time.

Cake, mmmmm!

PommieBast

hmmm wrote: »

In order to do that however they are going to have to abandon hope of getting long-cherished policies through.

If the Greens are to go into government they have to have something to show for it.



The way they have gone about it might have just about been OK back in February, but I did not even have to read the individual bullet-points to realise that in current circumstances they have blown it royally.

Tell me how

PommieBast wrote: »

If the Greens are to go into government they have to have something to show for it.



The way they have gone about it might have just about been OK back in February, but I did not even have to read the individual bullet-points to realise that in current circumstances they have blown it royally.

To be fair to the Greens, their motivation is primarily towards seeing policies adopted which are necessary. If all they wanted to do was to be part of a government, they could just be very loose with their language like other parties are.

They seem to be the only party who is intent on following their manifesto.

Blueshoe

What percentage of the vote for the green party get?