Green Party wish list.

Rows Grower

Tell me how wrote: »

My posts should have said two hundred years. I have edited it.

Doesn't change the impact which we are having, or the growth focus of society heretofore which is simply unsustainable in this manner.

But what's your point? Are the Green Party going to start population control?

Thelonious Monk

More than half of Ireland’s total emissions are generated by just two sectors: transport and agriculture. Decades of transport policy that fetishises the ownership of private cars while encouraging urban sprawl and long commutes makes this difficult to reverse.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-not-fear-the-greens-7-red-line-on-emission-cuts-1.4241266

Good article. Agriculture and transport are heavily subsidised and are our heaviest polluters. This needs to be reformed.

Thelonious Monk

BarryD2 wrote: »

The Greens have become an urban/ townie party and largely a middle class party. The fact is that their vision of a sustainable future is living in dense settlements which can be serviced by energy generated elsewhere, where people have high quality public transport, where services and employment is close by and owning the likes of a car is not required.

For the Greens, rural Ireland is for providing food to sustain above, to locate wind & solar farms etc., to have nice places where weekend breaks can be had by the urban citizens.

So any carbon tax/ carbon reduction policies will inevitably reflect that vision and a chill & expensive wind will inevitably blow on rural dwellers. There's no way around that, you can't have one set of carbon taxes say for urban dwellers and another for rural areas. If you concentrate public services and transport in urban areas, they'll be let disappear further in rural parts and so on.

I heard Catherine Martin on earlier and she was asked to spell out clearly what a 7% annual reduction in carbon would mean in the real world and she simply evaded and avoided the question.

If you're not a farmer, you should really be living in towns and villages like every other European country. Therefore you could have better services and public transport etc.

Water John

Eric, carbon tax went up today. The Greens are not in Govn't, it's FG are.

Eric Cartman

Water John wrote: »

Eric, carbon tax went up today. The Greens are not in Govn't, it's FG are.

I know, don't want to hear a single poster ever tell me again that FG are right wing, in the last decade the only things they've done are liberal social policies and f*ck over the taxpayer.

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I know, don't want to hear a single poster ever tell me again that FG are right wing, in the last decade the only things they've done are liberal social policies and f*ck over the taxpayer.

Don't you have a big house and 3 cars? Doesn't sound like you're strapped for cash yet all you do is complain about taxes.

Rows Grower

Water John wrote: »

Eric, carbon tax went up today. The Greens are not in Govn't, it's FG are.

The Greens were calling for carbon tax to be doubled 7 months ago.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

so are you saying I have absolutely no tax increases to worry about with the Green Party ?

You would be much less likely to have to worry about tax if you recognized there was an issue and were willing to support parties in coming up with proactive solutions.

The reality is that governments usually have to be somewhat forceful in changing behaviour.
They have two ways of doing this. Tax (which serves as a penalty) and legislation to enforce a behavior.
Two examples of when these options were introduced was the plastic bag tax, and the no smoking in the workplace law. Both of these are viewed as successes by the public who recognize that society is a better place if we use less plastic and don't have smoking around people so much.

If we recognized what would be best for society and supported parties in implementing that, then the impact of taxes on an individual might be much less.
Refusing to engage in meaningful discussion about what changes can be made is making it easy (and necessary) for a government to go the taxation route.

Rows Grower

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If you're not a farmer, you should really be living in towns and villages like every other European country. Therefore you could have better services and public transport etc.

Oh Lord.

Tell me how

Rows Grower wrote: »

But what's your point? Are the Green Party going to start population control?

No. The point is that our use of the natural resources on the planet is unsustainable.

We need solutions as to how to change this, not reasons why we don't want to.

Water John

Coveney has kicked off this spat, at the behest of his, large business friends. I can tell you it certainly wasn't out of concern for the Irish farmer.

Rows Grower

Tell me how wrote: »

You would be much less likely to have to worry about tax if you recognized there was an issue and were willing to support parties in coming up with proactive solutions.

The reality is that governments usually have to be somewhat forceful in changing behaviour.
They have two ways of doing this. Tax (which serves as a penalty) and legislation to enforce a behavior.
Two examples of when these options were introduced was the plastic bag tax, and the no smoking in the workplace law. Both of these are viewed as successes by the public who recognize that society is a better place if we use less plastic and don't have smoking around people so much.

If we recognized what would be best for society and supported parties in implementing that, then the impact of taxes on an individual might be much less.
Refusing to engage in meaningful discussion about what changes can be made is making it easy (and necessary) for a government to go the taxation route.

How are you associating the smoking ban with the Green Party? They had nothing whatsoever to do with the smoking ban.

If we supported Green Party policy we'd all be starving to death by now still waiting on a few lettuce leaves to grow on our south facing window sills.

Those of us that have south facing window sills that is.

Thelonious Monk

Rows Grower wrote: »

How are you associating the smoking ban with the Green Party? They had nothing whatsoever to do with the smoking ban.

If we supported Green Party policy we'd all be starving to death by now still waiting on a few lettuce leaves to grow on our south facing window sills.

Those of us that have south facing window sills that is.

You clearly didn't read his post.
Why would we be starving to death? Ireland produces beef and dairy and exports something like 90% of it, the greens are in favour of doing other things with some of our land. I don't eat beef and I'm still alive.

Tell me how

Rows Grower wrote: »

How are you associating the smoking ban with the Green Party? They had nothing whatsoever to do with the smoking ban.

If we supported Green Party policy we'd all be starving to death by now still waiting on a few lettuce leaves to grow on our south facing window sills.

Those of us that have south facing window sills that is.

Read the post slowly Rows Grower. A couple of times.

Rows Grower

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You clearly didn't read his post.
Why would we be starving to death? Ireland produces beef and dairy and exports something like 90% of it, the greens are in favour of doing other things with some of our land. I don't eat beef and I'm still alive.

The Green Party doesn't want to support the production of beef and dairy though, they are actively trying to promote an agenda to discourage it.

If the Greens want to do something else with the land they can buy more window boxes and do what they want with them and not try to dictate to farmers what they can do on/with their own property.

If you don't eat beef that's your choice, no one else cares what you eat or don't eat.

Thelonious Monk

Rows Grower wrote: »

The Green Party doesn't want to support the production of beef and dairy though, they are actively trying to promote an agenda to discourage it.

If the Greens want to do something else with the land they can buy more window boxes and do what they want with them and not try to dictate to farmers what they can do on/with their own property.

If you don't eat beef that's your choice, no one else cares what you eat or don't eat.

Yes they need to discourage it, it's a heavy polluter and lots of farmers are only living off subsidies anyway. Doing other things with the land is what the Greens want. Our land is the least forested countries in Europe and one of the most denatured countries in the world.
A 2017 European Parliament report found that Irish agriculture produces more CO2 per euro of output than any other country in the EU, due to the dominance of dairy and beef farming.
We also import twice as much animal feed from the Americas as our neighbours in the UK, millions of tonnes every year.

horseofstone

Eamon Ryan was seen recently driving an old 2.5 Litre diesel people carrier van. What a hypocrite he is....

Water John

It would be terrible to limit that Argentinian GM maize and soya used by the cattle factory feedlots.

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You clearly didn't read his post.
Why would we be starving to death? Ireland produces beef and dairy and exports something like 90% of it, the greens are in favour of doing other things with some of our land. I don't eat beef and I'm still alive.

I think a lot of your posts are quite selfish. "I don't drive" "I don't eat beef" "and I get along just fine" You live a very privileged life to make these choices.

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think a lot of your posts are quite selfish. "I don't drive" "I don't eat beef" "and I get along just fine" You live a very privileged life to make these choices.

Privileged is not eating beef? I would have thought it was the other way around.
I do drive, sometimes, but have never owned a car.
I think it's rich coming from you calling me selfish given all you seem to do is complain about people getting dole and you having to pay taxes etc.
I still enjoy your posts though.

Rows Grower

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes they need to discourage it, it's a heavy polluter and lots of farmers are only living off subsidies anyway. Doing other things with the land is what the Greens want. Our land is the least forested countries in Europe and one of the most denatured countries in the world.
A 2017 European Parliament report found that Irish agriculture produces more CO2 per euro of output than any other country in the EU, due to the dominance of dairy and beef farming.
We also import twice as much animal feed from the Americas as our neighbours in the UK, millions of tonnes every year.

In Ireland about 10.5% of the total land area is forest and this is estimated to be the highest level of forestry in 350 years.

Where are getting your "denatured" waffle from?

This is the second time I've heard that phrase on this forum and I never saw or heard of it anywhere else, it's also the second time I've pulled the poster on it and asked for an explanation. It was probably yourself.

Denatured? Would ya go on away and have a good run for yourself and look at all the lovely trees and you can hug your favourite ones.

Thelonious Monk

Rows Grower wrote: »

In Ireland about 10.5% of the total land area is forest and this is estimated to be the highest level of forestry in 350 years.

Where are getting your "denatured" waffle from?

This is the second time I've heard that phrase on this forum and I never saw or heard of it anywhere else, it's also the second time I've pulled the poster on it and asked for an explanation. It was probably yourself.

Denatured? Would ya go on away and have a good run for yourself and look at all the lovely trees and you can hug your favourite ones.

Yeah, tree farms. Toxic sitka spruce farms, purely for profit.
Again, there aren't many trees to hug, only Malta is worse in Europe.

Rows Grower

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah, tree farms. Toxic sitka spruce farms, purely for profit.
Again, there aren't many trees to hug, only Malta is worse in Europe.

More waffle.

There are over 7,500 different species of trees in Ireland

At the last count there were over 709 MILLION trees in Ireland.

That's a lot of trees and it's a lot of hugs.

Knock yourself out.

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah, tree farms. Toxic sitka spruce farms, purely for profit.
Again, there aren't many trees to hug, only Malta is worse in Europe.

But what do you want, you dont want the profitable trees, you dont want the profitable beef, what are these land owners supposed to do that generates a profit for themselves. Living off grants or subsidies is no way to continue, how is rural ireland supposed to stand on its own two feet

Shefwedfan

Rows Grower wrote: »

The Green Party doesn't want to support the production of beef and dairy though, they are actively trying to promote an agenda to discourage it.

If the Greens want to do something else with the land they can buy more window boxes and do what they want with them and not try to dictate to farmers what they can do on/with their own property.

If you don't eat beef that's your choice, no one else cares what you eat or don't eat.

The manifesto says "The key mechanism for achieving this change is reform of the Common Agricultural Policy. We will make sure that farmers are well paid to look after the land. This will involve a move away from intensive agricultural production towards forestry, silvopasture, horticulture, agri-tourism and organic farming.


In addition to the CAP, we will direct national-level policies towards the same aims. We will expand the Organic Farming Scheme to support producers of cereals, fruits, vegetables, legumes and other plant-based outputs. We will also oversee a substantial increase in funding for sustainable horticulture and redirect grant funding towards farm-to-fork supply chain activities."


So whats so scary about that? farmers are moving towards organic etc anyway. The farm-to-fork is what the good farmers are already providing. Closed herds etc.



I don't see anything in the manifesto to say not to eat meat. Maybe you can point it out?

Shefwedfan

Rows Grower wrote: »

More waffle.

There are over 7,500 different species of trees in Ireland

At the last count there were over 709 MILLION trees in Ireland.

That's a lot of trees and it's a lot of hugs.

Knock yourself out.

We are second from bottom in Europe

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/3hmeyx/percentage_of_land_area_covered_by_forest/

Kivaro

Tell me how wrote: »

The population has increased by 700% in the last 200 years.

Well if that is the argument, Ireland's population was around 8 1/2 million 200 years ago and about 5 million now. So we've done our bit for the environment.

How in the world does the undue hardship on the people of Ireland in order to obtain the Green's 7% emission reduction target impact on what is happening in China, India and other much larger countries? It is easy to say that we can lead by example, and I might agree if the target was a lot less punitive on ordinary working Irish people.

Tell me how

Kivaro wrote: »

Well if that is the argument, Ireland's population was around 8 1/2 million 200 years ago and about 5 million now. So we've done our bit for the environment.

How in the world does the undue hardship on the people of Ireland in order to obtain the Green's 7% emission reduction target impact on what is happening in China, India and other much larger countries? It is easy to say that we can lead by example, and I might agree if the target was a lot less punitive on ordinary working Irish people.

Irelands government (FG led) signed up to PAris agreement.
In that, we committed to reducing our emmissions by a value which now equates to 7%/annum.
All the Greens are asking is that FG (or FF, or whoever) enact to achieve what it said it would.

Why do so many people spend so much time arguing that politicians should be held to account but then be so blase about a meaningful attempt to do so?

Shefwedfan

Tell me how wrote: »

Irelands government (FG led) signed up to PAris agreement.
In that, we committed to reducing our emmissions by a value which now equates to 7%/annum.
All the Greens are asking is that FG (or FF, or whoever) enact to achieve what it said it would.

Why do so many people spend so much time arguing that politicians should be held to account but then be so blase about a meaningful attempt to do so?

Change.....it seems people are afraid of their lives of change. Even look at the Motors forum and the fear that Hybrid and electric brings to majority.

Kivaro

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Change.....it seems people are afraid of their lives of change. Even look at the Motors forum and the fear that Hybrid and electric brings to majority.

I really do have to put you on ignore .......