Green Party wish list.

Fann Linn

Tell me how wrote: »

And what's your take so on the FG led government signing us up to an agreement which effectively means a 7% reduction year on year? Would you rather they delay a year or two and make it an 8% requirement of 9% then? Would that be a more acceptable pace to you?

As for your last line. Lol. I would love if that were the case as I go to the trouble of posting on this topic to annoy people who can't comprehend the reality through their own shortsightedness.

Genuine question here; are any other EU countries currently undergoing this 7% carbon reduction requirement?

Tell me how

Fann Linn wrote: »

Genuine question here; are any other EU countries currently undergoing this 7% carbon reduction requirement?

Other countries are going about achieving their commitments which they signed up to in the Paris Agreement in various ways.

Ireland must currently aim for 7% (or in fact a little more than that) because we have not made sufficient progress to date.

Rows Grower

Tell me how wrote: »

And what's your take so on the FG led government signing us up to an agreement which effectively means a 7% reduction year on year? Would you rather they delay a year or two and make it an 8% requirement of 9% then? Would that be a more acceptable pace to you?

As for your last line. Lol. I would love if that were the case as I go to the trouble of posting on this topic to annoy people who can't comprehend the reality through their own shortsightedness.

I refer you back to the last part of my opening paragraph, if you get your kicks out of such mundane things you may have more things to worry about in your life than carbon tax.

Tell me how

Rows Grower wrote: »

I refer you back to the last part of my opening paragraph, if you get your kicks out of such mundane things you may have more things to worry about in your life than carbon tax.

Hey, at least I am arguing for something which ultimately is for the betterment of society.

You believe there is a need for climate action, apparently, but are knocking the only party is trying to ensure that action is meaningful.

And no doubt, if it turns out it wasn't, you'll blame the government of the day for not having acted soon enough. All noise, no substance.

Fred Cryton

Tell me how wrote: »

Other countries are going about achieving their commitments which they signed up to in the Paris Agreement in various ways.

Ireland must currently aim for 7% (or in fact a little more than that) because we have not made sufficient progress to date.

You didn't answer the question. No is the answer. Only poor old Ireland is getting the whip out to give itself a good lashing just to convey a virtuous image.



Ireland "must" do no such thing. We are one of the cleanest countries on the planet, with little in the way of polluting industry such as steel, coal, chemicals etc. The concept of relative reduction in emissions is completely ridiculous for countries which were already clean and largely agricultural in the first place.

Tell me how

Fred Cryton wrote: »

You didn't answer the question. No is the answer. Only poor old Ireland is getting the whip out to give itself a good lashing just to convey a virtuous image.



Ireland "must" do no such thing. We are one of the cleanest countries on the planet, with little in the way of polluting industry such as steel, coal, chemicals etc. The concept of relative reduction in emissions is completely ridiculous for countries which were already clean and largely agricultural in the first place.

Not according to this article Fred.

Ireland has third highest emissions of greenhouse gas in EU


Are you advocating that we renege on a deal which we have signed up to?

Thelonious Monk

Fred Cryton wrote: »

We are one of the cleanest countries on the planet, with little in the way of polluting industry such as steel, coal, chemicals etc. The concept of relative reduction in emissions is completely ridiculous for countries which were already clean and largely agricultural in the first place.

You do realise that because of all the agriculture we don't have barely any forests or nature or wildlife? Wicklow and Dublin mountains mostly look like the moon because there are no trees there, when there should be, due to over grazing. And when nature tries to grow back, farmers set it on fire, as we hae seen recently.
A 2017 European Parliament report found that Irish agriculture produces more CO2 per euro of output than any other country in the EU, due to the dominance of dairy and beef farming.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/report-confirms-acceleration-of-species-loss-and-habitat-deterioration-1.3893077

50% of our freshwater is polluted. The list goes on.
People see grass and cows in Ireland and think it's nature. We are not a green country at all, far from it.

Fred Cryton

Tell me how wrote: »

Not according to this article Fred.

Ireland has third highest emissions of greenhouse gas in EU


Are you advocating that we renege on a deal which we have signed up to?

That study is junk...let me explain some statistics to you, try to keep up.


We have a rather high per capita CO2 emissions, because we are a low density population...ie the ratio of people to land is one of the lowest in the EU. Hence, we are emitting more C02 per capita because we have a large amount of agricultural land relative to rather fewer people.



Or put it another way, if we were as densely populated as UK our C02 per capita would fall way down the list to the bottom...So we can solve this C02 per capita issue by breeding more people.


Get it?

Shefwedfan

Rows Grower wrote: »

I do and I also think besides the Greens, all other political parties are aware of what actions need to be taken to promote more environmentally sustainable activities and I'm happy to leave them implement those actions at their pace because they, unlike the soon to be defunct Greens, are not one trick ponies who think they can preach to the population in a condescending manner about an issue that every sane person can see needs to be put on the back burner.

The other, more popular parties, understand that issues need to be prioritised and the well being and immediate future of the country must be attended to and attended to with haste and proactive actions.

Carbon tax is a non issue now, the whole world has stopped polluting in a way that two short months ago would have been incomprehensible and even today still feels surreal.

The whole world is in a crisis and our country needs stable leadership and yet we have these muppets laying down demands that they want a firm commitment to a 7% reduction in emissions before they will even discuss helping to form a government.

They and any people that still support them after this latest fiasco should hang their heads in shame, and just to be quite clear, I'm including you in this with your declaration of support for the doubling of the carbon tax.

You and the likes of you disgust me.

You support the Healy Rae, I wouldn’t be throwing stones in glass houses

The only politicians in Ireland who only care about robbing everyone blind

Muahahaha

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Really you are scrambling around now trying to find anything


Building more roads is stupid, it is short term and if anything has shown over the last 30 years that more roads does not reduce congestion but increase it. Investing in public transport is the only way to move Ireland forward, not spending millions on a road.

.

Thats not necessarily true, it all depends on what the road is and you cant just go saying that building new roads is stupid, thats an extremist position to hold.

Take the M20 for example, it is vital for both the economies of Cork and Limerick that it is built so finally Irelands 2nd and 3rd largest cities can be properly connected. Right now the current N20 is a terrible journey and every town along the route has huge volumes of lorries smashing through their streets day after day, its a horrible environment for them to be living in. Its also a very dangerous road with over 50 deaths and many serious injuries caused on it over the years.

Its an absolute no brainer that the M20 gets underway in the lifetime of the next government but the Greens dont want to see it happen, instead preferring to invest in rail, i.e spend millions to flush down a black hole by giving it to CIE. Thats just bat sh1t crazy thinking they have and completely out of touch with Irelands infrastructural needs. The M20 is a game changer for the whole of Munster yet the urbanity Greens want to just ignore a piece of vital infrastructure that would directly benefit almost a million people, save lives and vastly improve the quality of life for lots of small towns and villages in rural Ireland. .

Tell me how

Fred Cryton wrote: »

That study is junk...let me explain some statistics to you, try to keep up.


We have a rather high per capita CO2 emissions, because we are a low density population...ie the ratio of people to land is one of the lowest in the EU. Hence, we are emitting more C02 per capita because we have a large amount of agricultural land relative to rather fewer people.



Or put it another way, if we were as densely populated as UK our C02 per capita would fall way down the list to the bottom...So we can solve this C02 per capita issue by breeding more people.


Get it?

The only thing you have explained is your incapacity to understand why a per capita value is recognized worldwide, including by the Irish government by which to rate performance.

Shefwedfan

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats not necessarily true, it all depends on what the road is and you cant just go saying that building new roads is stupid, thats an extremist position to hold.

Take the M20 for example, it is vital for both the economies of Cork and Limerick that it is built so finally Irelands 2nd and 3rd largest cities can be properly connected. Right now the current N20 is a terrible journey and every town along the route has huge volumes of lorries smashing through their streets day after day, its a horrible environment for them to be living in. Its also a very dangerous road with over 50 deaths and many serious injuries caused on it over the years.

Its an absolute no brainer that the M20 gets underway in the lifetime of the next government but the Greens dont want to see it happen, instead preferring to invest in rail, i.e spend millions to flush down a black hole by giving it to CIE. Thats just bat sh1t crazy thinking they have and completely out of touch with Irelands infrastructural needs. The M20 is a game changer for the whole of Munster yet the urbanity Greens want to just ignore a piece of vital infrastructure that would directly benefit almost a million people, save lives and vastly improve the quality of life for lots of small towns and villages in rural Ireland. .

Only in Ireland would you hear someone think building proper rail lines is “bat sh*t crazy”.....why exactly do you need to drive if you have proper rail links? Which can also transfer any good quicker and cheaper than lorries

Thelonious Monk

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Only in Ireland would you hear someone think building proper rail lines is “bat sh*t crazy”.....why exactly do you need to drive if you have proper rail links? Which can also transfer any good quicker and cheaper than lorries

Agreed. It's like the Galway ring road some people are trying to get built. It will just encourage more sprawl and more cars and eventually worsen the god awful traffic there.

Shefwedfan

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Agreed. It's like the Galway ring road some people are trying to get built. It will just encourage more sprawl and more cars and eventually worsen the god awful traffic there.

It’s the silly and lazy response, like the best option now is build another M50 just further out....idiots

New land cross is a disaster so we will stick in more lanes, great idea you now get the traffic faster to block up the M50, not maybe put in more and more commuter hubs for trains/luas etc.....

Roads are not the answer....you would think at this stage someone might have figured that out

Rows Grower

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats not necessarily true, it all depends on what the road is and you cant just go saying that building new roads is stupid, thats an extremist position to hold.

Take the M20 for example, it is vital for both the economies of Cork and Limerick that it is built so finally Irelands 2nd and 3rd largest cities can be properly connected. Right now the current N20 is a terrible journey and every town along the route has huge volumes of lorries smashing through their streets day after day, its a horrible environment for them to be living in. Its also a very dangerous road with over 50 deaths and many serious injuries caused on it over the years.

Its an absolute no brainer that the M20 gets underway in the lifetime of the next government but the Greens dont want to see it happen, instead preferring to invest in rail, i.e spend millions to flush down a black hole by giving it to CIE. Thats just bat sh1t crazy thinking they have and completely out of touch with Irelands infrastructural needs. The M20 is a game changer for the whole of Munster yet the urbanity Greens want to just ignore a piece of vital infrastructure that would directly benefit almost a million people, save lives and vastly improve the quality of life for lots of small towns and villages in rural Ireland. .

I've found that there is no point trying to have a discussion with these lads Muhahaha as they simply want to argue for the sake of arguing.

This forum seems to be the only hobby or interest they have and they are bereft of any logic in the quest to become internet champions in their own little minds, it's fairly sad really but look I'm sure we all know people like that in real life too and it would be a boring old world if we were all the same.

The Greens wanted to spend 10% of the transport budget on walking, I raised this point earlier and all their know all supporters on here shied away from it.

There's a reason for that and it's because like myself and a lot of others they have read the manifesto the Greens put forward before the last election but this is just one of the parts they don't want to be reminded of.

The Greens are a joke, their leader is an embarrassment to the country and the deputy leader is somehow against all odds proving to be worse.

Water John

Agri emissions need to be put into a separate compartment. The Paris targets is based on old analysis. By following up to date research and findings, similar to NZ we can square the circle.
The 7% can be achieved but some of that 7% comes from revised science of agricultural emissions.

Shefwedfan

Rows Grower wrote: »

I've found that there is no point trying to have a discussion with these lads Muhahaha as they simply want to argue for the sake of arguing.

This forum seems to be the only hobby or interest they have and they are bereft of any logic in the quest to become internet champions in their own little minds, it's fairly sad really but look I'm sure we all know people like that in real life too and it would be a boring old world if we were all the same.

The Greens wanted to spend 10% of the transport budget on walking, I raised this point earlier and all their know all supporters on here shied away from it.

There's a reason for that and it's because like myself and a lot of others they have read the manifesto the Greens put forward before the last election but this is just one of the parts they don't want to be reminded of.

The Greens are a joke, their leader is an embarrassment to the country and the deputy leader is somehow against all odds proving to be worse.

So now you claim you read the manifesto when earlier all your information was the opposite of the manifesto

Tell me how

Rows Grower wrote: »

The Greens wanted to spend 10% of the transport budget on walking, I raised this point earlier and all their know all supporters on here shied away from it.

You got two responses to that but you seemed to not be able to comprehend that.

Tell me how wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-half-of-travellers-use-cars-for-journeys-under-2km-1.2303451

Finding a way so that as many of these journeys as possible are not made be cars is a necessary task.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

More walkways make sense, cycle routes as well....places like Kerry would benefit if they stopped cars on some roads and made them full cycle ways for families and tourist.....

Rows Grower wrote: »

I've found that there is no point trying to have a discussion with these lads Muhahaha as they simply want to argue for the sake of arguing.

This forum seems to be the only hobby or interest they have and they are bereft of any logic in the quest to become internet champions in their own little minds, it's fairly sad really but look I'm sure we all know people like that in real life too and it would be a boring old world if we were all the same.

The Greens wanted to spend 10% of the transport budget on walking, I raised this point earlier and all their know all supporters on here shied away from it.

There's a reason for that and it's because like myself and a lot of others they have read the manifesto the Greens put forward before the last election but this is just one of the parts they don't want to be reminded of.

The Greens are a joke, their leader is an embarrassment to the country and the deputy leader is somehow against all odds proving to be worse.

You still have failed to explain how you think FG will achieve the targets which they have signed us up to.

I still think we are making progress here, on previous environmental threads, most complainers were flat out saying that there is no issue with human behaviours impacting on the environment, now, they, yourself included, are freely agreeing there is an issue, due in no small part to the message being hammered home over the last 2 months that it is science and data which must be used on serious matters, not waffle and bluster.
If we can just move you further along to being proactive, we'll finally be in with a chance of making real gains.

As for trying to demean others and say that we have no hobbies? What age are you 12?

BarryD2

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If you're not a farmer, you should really be living in towns and villages like every other European country. Therefore you could have better services and public transport etc.

That's some bleak vision for rural Ireland. Have you driven through parts of France - devoid of people, villages crumbling away. Where there is farming - huge fields, mechanisation, industrial farming.

This is the Green Achilles heel, policies all largely about city & town living.

It's a far cry from the Green Party that I knew back 30 years ago. Which was largely rooted around environmental issues. Now the Greens are happy to wreck the environment with massive industrial wind machines and all the infrastructure needed to build and sustain these.

Thelonious Monk

BarryD2 wrote: »

That's some bleak vision for rural Ireland. Have you driven through parts of France - devoid of people, villages crumbling away. Where there is farming - huge fields, mechanisation, industrial farming.

This is the Green Achilles heel, policies all largely about city & town living.

It's a far cry from the Green Party that I knew back 30 years ago. Which was largely rooted around environmental issues. Now the Greens are happy to wreck the environment with massive industrial wind machines and all the infrastructure needed to build and sustain these.

There are also many small bustling towns and villages in France, whereas a trip in Feb to Mayo I went through so many dead run down villages. It's the same in many parts of Ireland. No one is going to take anyone's one off housing from them, it would just make more sense to encourage people to live in towns and villages in future.

Rows Grower

CiarraiAbu2 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/green-party-lays-out-17-demands-for-entering-a-coalition-government-1.4236038?mode=amp

Not sure how much they beleive is achievable or whether it's to say we tried.

A week is a long time in politics, how are the Green Party getting on?

Muahahaha

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Only in Ireland would you hear someone think building proper rail lines is “bat sh*t crazy”.....why exactly do you need to drive if you have proper rail links? Which can also transfer any good quicker and cheaper than lorries

ah here you're showing yourself up to be clueless on transport if you think there should be a new rail line built between Cork and Limerick. The M20 is costed at 800m and the NRA have a strong record of delivering motorways on time and close to budget.

If you gave that same 800m to CIE to build a new rail line they would barely fifty kilometers up the road and be back asking for more money, they are an absolute money pit of an organsiation and thats why successive governemts avoid investing in rail at all because they have a long track record of wasting money. The Luas was kept out of CIE hands for very good reasons, Govt knew CIE would cock it up so instead of giving it them they established the RPA who ran the project like clockwork .

Of course a Green supporter just wouldnt get that and we would end up with one of the most expensive railways in the world and then nobody would use it anyway because the ticket prices are too high. So yes, not building the M20 is absolutely bat sh1t crazy but thats what the Greens want to do. They couldnt care less about people in rural Ireland, least of all Irelands 2nd and 3rd biggest cities which have a ton of commerce between, two ports, two airports but a sh1tty road that is from the the 1950s.

Are you seriously saying the M20 shouldnt be built? You did say any new road building "is stupid". Theres nothing more stupid than not building it.

Shefwedfan

Muahahaha wrote: »

ah here you're showing yourself up to be clueless on transport if you think there should be a new rail line built between Cork and Limerick. The M20 is costed at 800m and the NRA have a strong record of delivering motorways on time and close to budget.

If you gave that same 800m to CIE to build a new rail line they would barely fifty kilometers up the road and be back asking for more money, they are an absolute money pit of an organsiation and thats why successive governemts avoid investing in rail at all because they have a long track record of wasting money. The Luas was kept out of CIE hands for very good reasons, Govt knew CIE would cock it up so instead of giving it them they established the RPA who ran the project like clockwork .

Of course a Green supporter just wouldnt get that and we would end up with one of the most expensive railways in the world and then nobody would use it anyway because the ticket prices are too high. So yes, not building the M20 is absolutely bat sh1t crazy but thats what the Greens want to do. They couldnt care less about people in rural Ireland, least of all Irelands 2nd and 3rd biggest cities which have a ton of commerce between, two ports, two airports but a sh1tty road that is from the the 1950s.

Are you seriously saying the M20 shouldnt be built? You did say any new road building "is stupid". Theres nothing more stupid than not building it.

Im not a green supporter.....I am supoporter of the environment and common sense

Loafing Oaf

Surprisingly (to me) odds on an FF/FG/Green government have moved in to 1/2. Maybe more progress is being made behind the scenes than what we are seeing in the media

Muahahaha

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Im not a green supporter.....I am supoporter of the environment and common sense

Weill there is not much common sense about building a rail line from Cork to Limerick, no cargo company would use it just as they dont use the other train lines and prefer roads to move goods. That isnt changing until CIE put their house in order which is basically never.

You said building new roads "is stupid", there is absolutely nothing stupid about building the M20 and giving the entire province of Munster a boost. The only thing stupid is that it hasnt been done before now.

Eric Cartman

Muahahaha wrote: »

Weill there is not much common sense about building a rail line from Cork to Limerick, no cargo company would use it just as they dont use the other train lines and prefer roads to move goods. That isnt changing until CIE put their house in order which is basically never.

You said building new roads "is stupid", there is absolutely nothing stupid about building the M20 and giving the entire province of Munster a boost. The only thing stupid is that it hasnt been done before now.

The only way rail cargo transport is truly coming back is to privatise irish rail, logistics companies just would never trust it aslong as the ever present danger of unions downing tools and causing issues like the last time is there.

Roads infrastructure saves on emissions, its more efficient for cars to travel on motorways and dual carraigeways , it also helps preserve rural ireland. Our bumber one infrastructure priority should be roads.

Shefwedfan

Muahahaha wrote: »

Weill there is not much common sense about building a rail line from Cork to Limerick, no cargo company would use it just as they dont use the other train lines and prefer roads to move goods. That isnt changing until CIE put their house in order which is basically never.

You said building new roads "is stupid", there is absolutely nothing stupid about building the M20 and giving the entire province of Munster a boost. The only thing stupid is that it hasnt been done before now.

Stick 10 euro each way to use the road for trucks and see what they use....

Tell me what percentage of traffic on the route is trucks v cars?

Muahahaha

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Surprisingly (to me) odds on an FF/FG/Green government have moved in to 1/2. Maybe more progress is being made behind the scenes than what we are seeing in the media

Or it could mean because the talks between FFG and Greens have been in the media so much punters go looking for easy money and then the bookie shortens the odds to mitigate their risk on a large payout. If its Paddy Power they're often not good at political odds, I backed Michelle Obama at 25/1 to be Bidens pick for VP after Biden said last week that he would choose her in a heartbeat if she wanted it. They didnt cop what Biden said for more than two days before finally slashing her odds to 10/1. I dont think she'll go for it but if she does then Im quids in solely because they weren't on the ball and paying attention to his speeches.

Loafing Oaf

Surprisingly (to me) odds on an FF/FG/Green government have moved in to 1/2. Maybe more progress is being made behind the scenes than what we are seeing in the media

political analyst

I don't see how the Greens can regard culling Ireland's herd of cattle to reach the emissions target of 7% as feasible. Of course, cattle emit methane by "breaking wind", but so do humans. To adhere to the Greens' demand is like saying there should be a cull of humans to reduce emissions.