Green Party wish list.

FrancieBrady

Huntergonzo wrote: »

No it's not, we voted, turning around and telling us 'you got it wrong' is b0ll0x, again just get on with the job, the rest of us have to....except for SF voters of course ;-)

As for policies, wouldn't mind that rubbish, politicians abandon their 'policies' like rats abandoning a sinking ship.

Exactly why politics is so rotten in this country.
The power swap has gotten people used to sleeveenism and say one thing do another politics.

Time for a 'change'

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes we did and you are lying about who won the election. If anybody 'won' the election it certainly wasn't FF. They won the most seats by virtue of having one seat before anyone even voted.

But but but but...

Sinn Fein lost because
1. Again poor planning by Mary Lou, after the local
Election when they got hammered she had no idea what was going on in Ireland and didn’t run enough candidate
2. To compound the mistake, has spent the last 4 months since the election doing nothing to form an agreement with any parties. If they had Greens/PBP etc on board then FF or FG would have no choice but to talk to them or go to another election.

Again this was poor management and people skills by Mary Lou who doesn’t seem to have the ability to negotiate with any party North or South of border

It is terrible when you see PBP putting up letter asking Sinn Fein to contact them in May.

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

But but but but...

Sinn Fein lost because
1. Again poor planning by Mary Lou, after the local
Election when they got hammered she had no idea what was going on in Ireland and didn’t run enough candidate
2. To compound the mistake, has spent the last 4 months since the election doing nothing to form an agreement with any parties. If they had Greens/PBP etc on board then FF or FG would have no choice but to talk to them or go to another election.

Again this was poor management and people skills by Mary Lou who doesn’t seem to have the ability to negotiate with any party North or South of border

It is terrible when you see PBP putting up letter asking Sinn Fein to contact them in May.

You're spinning again.



SF percentage of vote 24.5%
Vote 535,595

FF percentage of vote 22.2%
Vote 484,320

FG percentage of vote 20.9%
Vote 455,584

Gp percentage of vote 7.1%
Vote 155,700

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You're spinning again.



SF percentage of vote 24.5%
Vote 535,595

FF percentage of vote 22.2%
Vote 484,320

FG percentage of vote 20.9%
Vote 455,584

Gp percentage of vote 7.1%
Vote 155,700

I don’t work for any party so I don’t “spin”

I do think you will find the loser is normally the one who has “spin”. Clearly that’s Sinn Fein of the above parties as they will be the only ones not in power

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I don’t work for any party so I don’t “spin”

I do think you will find the loser is normally the one who has “spin”. Clearly that’s Sinn Fein of the above parties as they will be the only ones not in power

If proclaiming the winner was the one who got 2.3% less than another party and and over 50,000 less first preference votes is not 'spin', then it is a good old familiar lie.

What happens after in government formation is immaterial to the result of the election. The 'electorate' have nothing to do with that.

Redgirl82

https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/solar-panel-limit-lifting-key-part-of-government-formation-talks-1.4259654?mode=amp

This should have been scrapped years ago, county councils blocking people installing solar panels for stupid reasons. Also setting tiny limits so people would have to pay the council for planning

Hopefully will get implemented and then could be a good option for more people. Might even look myself .

Edgware

Redgirl82 wrote: »

But but but but...

Sinn Fein lost because
1. Again poor planning by Mary Lou, after the local
Election when they got hammered she had no idea what was going on in Ireland and didn’t run enough candidate
2. To compound the mistake, has spent the last 4 months since the election doing nothing to form an agreement with any parties. If they had Greens/PBP etc on board then FF or FG would have no choice but to talk to them or go to another election.

Again this was poor management and people skills by Mary Lou who doesn’t seem to have the ability to negotiate with any party North or South of border

It is terrible when you see PBP putting up letter asking Sinn Fein to contact them in May.

The fishwife wouldnt run a second candidate in her constituency because her big fat ego wanted the top the poll headlines. She can sit on the fence now with the SocDems suggesting great solutions to everything for the next five years

Redgirl82

At the end of the day Mary Lou was in FF, she looked around and seen lots of good politicians and her route to leader was blocked

So she jumped ship to a party which she could walk into and become the top dog very quickly.

Also suggests she didn’t see much of a route to the top at FG either or she would be sitting with them now

bandit14

Blueshoe wrote: »

Money that isn't there. Not a snowballs chance.
Rerun election is the most likely outcome.

Eamon Ryan isn't even tolerated by his own party. FF and fg heads are laughing at him

Completely agree Blueshoe GE in September / October I'd say .
IMO the Greens cannot agree among themselves and their red line issue's are a step too far especially in rural Ireland .

FrancieBrady

bandit14 wrote: »

Completely agree Blueshoe GE in September / October I'd say .
IMO the Greens cannot agree among themselves and their red line issue's are a step too far especially in rural Ireland .

Ryan knows the Greens are doomed whatever they do. He'll try to go in and cause a bunch of pain for younger party members. Could even split the party.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ryan knows the Greens are doomed whatever they do. He'll try to go in and cause a bunch of pain for younger party members. Could even split the party.

I could see a split sooner than you think with a group of anti Ryans leaving. That wouldnt necessarily collapse the Government though because there are plenty of independents who would like a bit of power

bandit14

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ryan knows the Greens are doomed whatever they do. He'll try to go in and cause a bunch of pain for younger party members. Could even split the party.

To be fair to Eamonn I'd say he's a decent enough man but unfortunately has surrounded himself with very unreasonable and in my opinion self serving dangerous people . I think FG are doing a good job at the moment (doing what their told by the professionals ) but its a single issue which wont be reflected positively in any election for FG.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You're spinning again.



SF percentage of vote 24.5%
Vote 535,595

FF percentage of vote 22.2%
Vote 484,320

FG percentage of vote 20.9%
Vote 455,584

Gp percentage of vote 7.1%
Vote 155,700

Sorry I just seen this and thought it’s the best response

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2020/02/17/24-of-electorate-that-voted-sinn-fein-under-impression-100-of-nation-voted-for-party/

We can move on now :-)

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry I just seen this and thought it’s the best response

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2020/02/17/24-of-electorate-that-voted-sinn-fein-under-impression-100-of-nation-voted-for-party/

We can move on now :-)

Again, 24.5% voted for SF

22.2% voted for FF.

I wonder what Waterford Whispers would make of somebody calling that a 'win' for FF.

Keep spinning and contorting...it ain't gonna change the figures, it will just get you dizzy and in a dither.

bandit14

Sinn Fein were the clear winners in the GE its a pity they have not made any reasonable efforts to form a "Government for CHANGE" as promised.

Its much easier for the likes of Sinn Fein , PBP , Socdems , Aontu (all one of them) et al to sit comfortably in opposition and fire muck .

Makes me sick !

Redgirl82

bandit14 wrote: »

Sinn Fein were the clear winners in the GE its a pity they have not made any reasonable efforts to form a "Government for CHANGE" as promised.

Its much easier for the likes of Sinn Fein , PBP , Socdems , Aontu (all one of them) et al to sit comfortably in opposition and fire muck .

Makes me sick !

In the end a wasted vote for all those people becaus Sinn Fein where never a party that would do anything

Still love that Waterford whispers, excellent :-)

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, 24.5% voted for SF

22.2% voted for FF.

I wonder what Waterford Whispers would make of somebody calling that a 'win' for FF.

Keep spinning and contorting...it ain't gonna change the figures, it will just get you dizzy and in a dither.

You do realise Waterford whispers isn’t an actually political website?

FrancieBrady

bandit14 wrote: »

Sinn Fein were the clear winners in the GE its a pity they have not made any reasonable efforts to form a "Government for CHANGE" as promised.

Its much easier for the likes of Sinn Fein , PBP , Socdems , Aontu (all one of them) et al to sit comfortably in opposition and fire muck .

Makes me sick !

FG were deliriously happy and delighted to go into opposition until they got over their huff at the election results.

There is no point forming a government if it is based on dominating and destroying smaller party's in coalition or buying people off with Garda stations and bypasses. It devalues the political process and it is the reason Labour and the Greens etc never grew to party's strong enough to challenge the big two power swap parties and the reason the PD's collapsed and burned.

SF will play the long game, I would guess.

SkepticQuark

bandit14 wrote: »

Sinn Fein were the clear winners in the GE its a pity they have not made any reasonable efforts to form a "Government for CHANGE" as promised.

Its much easier for the likes of Sinn Fein , PBP , Socdems , Aontu (all one of them) et al to sit comfortably in opposition and fire muck .

Makes me sick !

Sinn Fein wouldn't have the seats for a left wing coalition, there isn't enough independents who would reasonably sign up to that considering you'd need the majority of independent TDs. Sinn Fein also can't talk to Fianna Fail and Fine Gael because they won't talk to them. Reasonable enough to point out Sinn Fein didn't do enough in 2016 but 2020 they just don't have the seats no matter what way you try to come up with a government configuration involving them without FF or FG being involved.

Maybe instead of solely accusing opposition parties of doing nothing you also blame FF and FG's continued insistence of not talking to the 2nd largest party in terms of seats purely based on grudges and political games? If they can put "civil war politics" aside between themselves they can put aside past imagined and real grievances with Sinn Fein and Sinn Fein can do the same.

Ultimately it's a game of calculus and Sinn Fein didn't run enough candidates relative to the vote share they got, I'm sure if they had the ability to see the future they'd have run more.

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

You do realise Waterford whispers isn’t an actually political website?

Of course it is political...political satire.

I like this one:

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2020/02/10/fine-gael-apologise-that-nation-too-pig-ignorant-thick-to-appreciate-how-great-party-is/

Redgirl82

SkepticQuark wrote: »

Sinn Fein wouldn't have the seats for a left wing coalition, there isn't enough independents who would reasonably sign up to that considering you'd need the majority of independent TDs. Sinn Fein also can't talk to Fianna Fail and Fine Gael because they won't talk to them. Reasonable enough to point out Sinn Fein didn't do enough in 2016 but 2020 they just don't have the seats no matter what way you try to come up with a government configuration involving them without FF or FG being involved.

Maybe instead of solely accusing opposition parties of doing nothing you also blame FF and FG's continued insistence of not talking to the 2nd largest party in terms of seats purely based on grudges and political games? If they can put "civil war politics" aside between themselves they can put aside past imagined and real grievances with Sinn Fein and Sinn Fein can do the same.

GreenParty, PBP etc all made moves to Sinn Fein after the election. If Mary Lou was any good she would have wrapped them up and then forced FF of FG to the table.

She didn’t, another display of her poor leadership. She so far has had a terrible local election, ran what will turn out to be a failed campaign in general election due to her own fault. Failed to negotiate with any party to form a government

If she was in FF or FG now she would be out of her job

Some people reward failure, it’s seems Sinn Fein is one of those

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course it is political...political satire.

I like this one:

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2020/02/10/fine-gael-apologise-that-nation-too-pig-ignorant-thick-to-appreciate-how-great-party-is/

No, the majority of content is non political

SkepticQuark

Redgirl82 wrote: »

GreenParty, PBP etc all made moves to Sinn Fein after the election. If Mary Lou was any good she would have wrapped them up and then forced FF of FG to the table.

She didn’t, another display of her poor leadership. She so far has had a terrible local election, ran what will turn out to be a failed campaign in general election due to her own fault. Failed to negotiate with any party to form a government

If she was in FF or FG now she would be out of her job

Some people reward failure, it’s seems Sinn Fein is one of those

FF and FG weren't ever going to be "forced to the table" when the two of them together immediately have more seats than a left wing coalition. Do the maths it's really not that difficult. There is 0 leverage Sinn Fein could create when FF and FG together simply need 1 party on top to get them a majority and Sinn Fein with like 5 parties still fall far short of 80 seats. The Green Party by openly courting FF+FG coalition immediately negates the threat of a left wing coalition because it signals to FF+FG that they can maintain power simply by agreeing to some of Eamon Ryan's climate action demands. Also saying "failed to negotiate with any party" when Soc Dems and PBP were clear they wouldn't go into government with FF+FG after they were in talks with Sinn Fein on a coalition government is a bit of a disingenuous statement to make. The Greens going to the table negates any political capital Sinn Fein could create because it showed an opening to power for FF+FG.

FrancieBrady

SkepticQuark wrote: »

FF and FG weren't ever going to be "forced to the table" when the two of them together immediately have more seats than a left wing coalition. Do the maths it's really not that difficult. There is 0 leverage Sinn Fein could create when FF and FG together simply need 1 party on top to get them a majority and Sinn Fein with like 5 parties still fall far short of 80 seats. The Green Party by openly courting FF+FG coalition immediately negates the threat of a left wing coalition because it signals to FF+FG that they can maintain power simply by agreeing to some of Eamon Ryan's climate action demands.

And FF & FG know this is probably the last spin for them in the 100 year long power swap.

Will the Greens accommodate that? I think they will and be decimated at the next election again when the electorate get their chance to give their verdict.

Redgirl82

SkepticQuark wrote: »

FF and FG weren't ever going to be "forced to the table" when the two of them together immediately have more seats than a left wing coalition. Do the maths it's really not that difficult. There is 0 leverage Sinn Fein could create when FF and FG together simply need 1 party on top to get them a majority and Sinn Fein with like 5 parties still fall far short of 80 seats. The Green Party by openly courting FF+FG coalition immediately negates the threat of a left wing coalition because it signals to FF+FG that they can maintain power simply by agreeing to some of Eamon Ryan's climate action demands.

FF/FG need a Greens or someone. Greens went to SF first and Mary Lou made a mess

If Mary Lou had the other parties with her then either FF/FG would have to talk to Sinn Fein or run the risk of been blamed for another election

It’s poor management by Mary Lou, poor negotiation skills yet again. FF and FG only went to Greens in last few weeks, Mary Lou met them in Feb

SkepticQuark

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And FF & FG know this is probably the last spin for them in the 100 year long power swap.

Will the Greens accommodate that? I think they will and be decimated at the next election again when the electorate get their chance to give their verdict.

As someone who voted green that's my major fear TBH, we're going to take a coalition government offer on the basis of carbon tax hikes and token gestures elsewhere. I get the urgency of tackling climate change for some green party members and the argument that FF+FG coalition with them using their current power of being key to forming a government as a means to get some extra measures implemented but it's likely those extra measures just hurt working people disproportionately who really aren't the major issue on this front.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And FF & FG know this is probably the last spin for them in the 100 year long power swap.

Will the Greens accommodate that? I think they will and be decimated at the next election again when the electorate get their chance to give their verdict.

I doubt that, FF get in now and run good for next few years and people will come flooding back

Sinn Fein political won’t stand up in the Rep as it does in the North. Especially with the “politicians” they have in the ranks, expect a lot of Mary Lou doing interviews on RTE covering up for one of them over the next few years. People will soon bore of them

FrancieBrady

SkepticQuark wrote: »

As someone who voted green that's my major fear TBH, we're going to take a coalition government offer on the basis of carbon tax hikes and token gestures elsewhere. I get the urgency of tackling climate change for some green party members and the argument that FF+FG coalition with them using their current power of being key to forming a government as a means to get some extra measures implemented but it's likely those extra measures just hurt working people disproportionately who really aren't the major issue on this front.

I would hate to be in the shoes of a genuine young Green party member tbh.

Big decision for them coming up.

SkepticQuark

Redgirl82 wrote: »

FF/FG need a Greens or someone. Greens went to SF first and Mary Lou made a mess

If Mary Lou had the other parties with her then either FF/FG would have to talk to Sinn Fein or run the risk of been blamed for another election

It’s poor management by Mary Lou, poor negotiation skills yet again. FF and FG only went to Greens in last few weeks, Mary Lou met them in Feb

The Greens went to Sinn Fein first yes, Sinn Fein with a left wing coalition don't come close to power without a majority of independents like I have already tried to explain to you. Mary Lou can't force the greens not to talk to FF/FG when Eamon Ryan's politics is fundamentally about taking incremental changes when given a slight opportunity for it to occur. The only way FF/FG would have been forced into a talk to SF or have an election was if the smaller parties universally refused to negotiate unless they negotiated with SF, that was never going to happen.

It's a question of basic maths like I said, Sinn Fein's only leverage was 1st preference votes going to them by a small margin overall nationally speaking, FF and FG don't see that as a threat when all they ever needed was to bridge historical differences that no longer exist and tempt the greens with some carbon tax increases and talk of investment in public transport.

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I doubt that, FF get in now and run good for next few years and people will come flooding back

Sinn Fein political won’t stand up in the Rep as it does in the North. Especially with the “politicians” they have in the ranks, expect a lot of Mary Lou doing interviews on RTE covering up for one of them over the next few years. People will soon bore of them

FF have fallen to 14% in the polls. They are being told already what the electorate think of them.

Martin is so hellbent on the Taoiseach target he can't see he is wrecking the party. One of the two FG or FF will disappear soon, the trends in their vote share shows that. 84% down to 44% now.