Green Party wish list.

Redgirl82

Rows Grower wrote: »

This is where you lied.

:P

Buck_rodgers

Water John wrote: »

I have a strong belief in science and facts. So it doesn't matter which side uses an argument that isn't fact and research based, I will correct it to the best of my knowledge.
I believe we need to alter our environmental degredation of the planet, but the actions must be based on facts.

Yes, totally agree.
The green party are correct that something needs to be done, but like the Americans during the Vietnam war “It Was Necessary to Destroy the Village in Order to Save It.” they are insane in their way to achieve this.
They ignore science that does not support their views, that is not a solid foundation to build a political movement.

PommieBast

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

Greens are living in cloud cuckoo land, they lack the ability to see the world for how it really is, they should be kept as far away from power as possible, a country run by the Greens would be like Pol Pots Cambodia, just wait and see

As much as I am not fond of the Greens, comparing them to Pol Pot is a bit much..

Tell me how

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

Yes, totally agree.
The green party are correct that something needs to be done, but like the Americans during the Vietnam war “It Was Necessary to Destroy the Village in Order to Save It.” they are insane in their way to achieve this.
They ignore science that does not support their views, that is not a solid foundation to build a political movement.

Any evidence of the greens ignoring science which does not support their views.

From comparing them to Pol Pot to saying they are correct and something needs to be done is quite the transition.

Redgirl82

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

Yes, totally agree.
The green party are correct that something needs to be done, but like the Americans during the Vietnam war “It Was Necessary to Destroy the Village in Order to Save It.” they are insane in their way to achieve this.
They ignore science that does not support their views, that is not a solid foundation to build a political movement.

Typically I would have seen the green provide supporting information, where have they ignored science?

Thelonious Monk

Water John wrote: »

The hills need sheep for vegitation management. they were over stocked 20 years ago, not so now. Without sheep, bracken would take over. Trees don't grow on mountainy land sheep or no sheep.

The reference in the post above equating the Greens to Pol Pot is offensive. You do realise that regime was responsible for a genocide.

You haven't a clue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-50730475

Danzy

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You haven't a clue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-50730475

The mountain name is very apt

Buck_rodgers

Tell me how wrote: »

Any evidence of the greens ignoring science which does not support their views.

From comparing them to Pol Pot to saying they are correct and something needs to be done is quite the transition.

The Greens are on the right path, everyone knows something has to be done, but the Greens are acting on emotion, they pick and choose science to believe, they are seen as nutters because of this, until they mature from the teenage years as a political entity they will be a minority party, too many hair brains pushed in front of the camera to speak for the Greens, they need someone who is speaking nothing but facts and not emotion.
Gretha has set them back a decade with her petulant attitude, and who would vote for a party taking advice from a autistic teenager?

Redgirl82

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

The Greens are on the right path, everyone knows something has to be done, but the Greens are acting on emotion, they pick and choose science to believe, they are seen as nutters because of this, until they mature from the teenage years as a political entity they will be a minority party, too many hair brains pushed in front of the camera to speak for the Greens, they need someone who is speaking nothing but facts and not emotion.
Gretha has set them back a decade with her petulant attitude, and who would vote for a party taking advice from a autistic teenager?

Nothing outrageous in this
https://www.greenparty.ie/policies/2020-general-election-manifesto/

Why are people so afraid of a kid?

Buck_rodgers

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Nothing outrageous in this


Why are people so afraid of a kid?

No one if afraid of a kid, but only a idiot would take advice from a kid with no life experience, see the difference?
If you took diet advice from a kid you would be eating chocolate for every meal

efanton

The Green should forget about the sheep living on the hill sides and remote areas, what about the people living there?

The problem I have with the Green Party's demand is that they want everything now, rather than policies that will naturally lead to a greener and more environmentally friendly environmental and economy.

They want to stop all road development. Do they not realise that it is the roads that allow rural businesses and commerce to develop in rural areas. lorries delivering goods and many commercial vehicles cant go electric yet. You cant simply stop the improvement of our national road system without first putting an alternative in place.
Has the Green Party any viable proposals for public transport in rural areas ? None whatsoever.
Surely the sensible thing to do is to continue to develop our transport networks, including roads, but to do it in the most environmentally friendly way possible.

For instance why not introduce legislation so that every new road (except motorways), or road upgrade, must include a separated cycling path along its route, one that has a kerb or some sort of barrier to prevent vehicles from driving on it or parking there. Eventually as roads are built, resurfaced and upgraded, we would have a national network of safe cycle lanes.

Also regarding roads they demanded this little gem

Will you commit to rebalancing our transport infrastructure spend, dedicating at least 20pc of infrastructure expenditure in transport to cycling and walking and ensuring that other public transport infrastructure investment is allocated at least two-thirds of the remaining infrastructure budget?

lets put that in plain language.
20% goes to cycle and walking paths
53.33% goes to public transport
26.67% left for new roads, and the maintenance of the entire national road network. That 26% would not even pay to fill the pot holes let alone resurface roads, or build new ones.


They want to stop the Gas fields exploration. While I understand that gas is also a fossil fuel its far cleaner than burning coal turf or oil. To me it would make sense to promote the use of gas until such time as the alternative heat sources are in place.
How are people in rural areas going to heat their home in an affordable manner if the Green tax the bejesus out of all fossil fuels. Again they want the end point where no one uses fossil fuels to heat their homes but to do so before they have the alternatives already in place.
THey talk of retrofitting homes with insulation and solar power, as if it can be done in a matter of a few years. It going to take at least a decade to get that done and in the mean time those unfortunate enough to be waiting their turn will be paying excessively because of green levies.


They want to get rid of the fossil fuel power stations, and everyone to use electric cars. Do they not realise that the majority of the electricity required to charge cars comes from fossil fuels. How many years is it going to take to erect all the wind turbines or hydro power facilities to replace the fossil fuel electricity generating plants, yet they want the government to shut down plant now.
The sensible thing here would be to allow people that have erected their own solar panels, wind turbines, or hydro power generators to feed their surplus back to the grid and get paid for that surplus. This is done in many countries but it is illegal here, so surely changing the legislation and forcing the ESB to buy surplus power at nominal rates would make perfect sense as an interim measure.

I could go on and on. Every demand they make is unreasonable because they haven't provided an alternative to the thing they want got rid off and not once in there whole manifesto or there response to the Framework Document. have they even attempted to cost their measures.

How do you get to Rome? one step at a time as the old saying goes, but the Green Party seem to believe in teleportation.
There is nothing wrong with the ambition or the end goals of what the Green Party are proposing, but what they are suggesting is not only unworkable, it will be economic suicide as well as detrimental to the welfare of those that do not happen to live as Eamonn Ryan does just a short cycle ride into a city.

What is really worrying is the Micheal Martin is so desperate to be Taoiseach, and lets be blunt here this is his last chance at that, and FG know that this is probably they last chance of being in government for a considerable time that both FF and FG will promise almost anything to get their coalition across the line even if it is not really in the best interest of the majority of the people in rural areas, and possibly some of the urban areas too.

Lets go greener, but not at the cost that the Green Party is demanding.

Micky 32

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Why are people so afraid of a kid?

I do love this. It seems that if anyone doesn’t agree with Greta the treehuggers accuse everyone either of hating her or afraid of her lol

Redgirl82

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

No one if afraid of a kid, but only a idiot would take advice from a kid with no life experience, see the difference?
If you took diet advice from a kid you would be eating chocolate for every meal

Who has taken advice from a kid?

Redgirl82

Micky 32 wrote: »

I do love this. It seems that if anyone doesn’t agree with Greta the treehuggers accuse everyone either of hating her or afraid of her lol

Did you read the post I quoted?

I’m no fan of Greta, and not a tree hugger either. But I do see men seem to have a huge overreaction about a young girl....

Redgirl82

This was 2016 Green manifesto, preGreta if that what people are talking about

https://www.greenparty.ie/green-party-launch-general-election-manifesto/

Micky 32

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Did you read the post I quoted?

I’m no fan of Greta, and not a tree hugger either. But I do see men seem to have a huge overreaction about a young girl....

I always see on forums anyone who disagrees with her either hate her or afraid of her. The biggest load of bs.

Redgirl82

Micky 32 wrote: »

I always see on forums anyone who disagrees with her either hate her or afraid of her. The biggest load of bs.

Why is Greta even brought up? What has she got to do with ireland? She has never even been here

People use her as a person to point at and ridicule because they are afraid of her, read the post I quoted. It couldn’t be just Greta, it had to be Greta the xyz.

efanton

Redgirl82 wrote: »

This was 2016 Green manifesto, preGreta if that what people are talking about

https://www.greenparty.ie/green-party-launch-general-election-manifesto/

Their 2020 manifesto might be more relevant. you can read all their manifesto policies here. I have and not once in all seven document do they cost anything, or give a timeline as to how long their measures will take to implement.

https://www.greenparty.ie/policies/2020-general-election-manifesto/



and here are their 17 demands for FF/FG

The 17 questions within the document are:

Will you commit to an average annual reduction in greenhouse gas emissions of at least 7 per cent?

Will you commit to an ambitious programme of development of, and investment where necessary in, renewable energy infrastructure including off-shore wind, grid and interconnector upgrades and community energy projects?
Will you commit to ending the issue of exploration licences for offshore gas exploration?

Will you commit to ceasing the construction of new fossil fuel infrastructure, particularly LNG import terminals that could allow the entry of unconventional liquefied natural gas into the Irish energy mix?

Will you commit to the exclusive provision of public housing, social housing and cost rental housing on public lands?

Will you commit to prioritising urban renewal in line with a ‘Town Centre First’ model?

Will you commit to a comprehensive deep retrofit programme as part of a programme for government?

Will you commit to convening a social dialogue process representative of all key stakeholders with a view to developing of a new social contract?

Will you commit to working towards ending the Direct Provision system and replacing it with a not-for-profit system based on accommodation provided through existing or new approved housing bodies?

Will you commit to setting us on a clear and certain path to meeting our UN obligation to spend 0.7pc of our national income on Overseas Development Aid?

Will you commit to the development of a national land use plan which will inform both the new national economic plan and the new social contract?

Will you commit to rebalancing our transport infrastructure spend, dedicating at least 20pc of infrastructure expenditure in transport to cycling and walking and ensuring that other public transport infrastructure investment is allocated at least two-thirds of the remaining infrastructure budget?

Will you commit to establishing a trial of Universal Basic Income (UBI) within the lifetime of the next Government?

Will you commit to the revision of the existing National Development Plan so that we can meet our New Social Contract goals and climate change targets?

Will you commit to a review of the State’s response to the Covid-19 pandemic, undertaken by the Oireachtas, to enable us to learn lessons for the future?

Will you provide a clear and detailed analysis of how your Joint Framework Document is to be financed?

Will you commit to publishing and implementing a Green Procurement Policy?


This one is a peach.
Will you provide a clear and detailed analysis of how your Joint Framework Document is to be financed?

When they haven't even bothered to estimate the cost of their own demands or the time they will take to implement.

Redgirl82

^^^^

I already quoted the 2020 one....

Micky 32

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Why is Greta even brought up? What has she got to do with ireland? She has never even been here

People use her as a person to point at and ridicule because they are afraid of her, read the post I quoted. It couldn’t be just Greta, it had to be Greta the xyz.

Oh give over. I don’t agree or have any interest in her but i don’t hate her or am i afraid of her. This hate/afraid bs are treehuggers stomping their feet because someone doesn’t agree with her.

I didn’t bring her up, i replied to a comment you made about her.

Redgirl82

I’m not a tree hugger, I didn’t vote green. Maybe I should have. I don’t see the big issue with the plans or requests they have? Personal I would like a train line beside each road, even crazier ideas but not for this thread

Micky 32

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I’m not a tree hugger, I didn’t vote green. Maybe I should have. I don’t see the big issue with the plans or requests they have? Personal I would like a train line beside each road, even crazier ideas but not for this thread

I never said you were a treehugger.

Tell me how

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

The Greens are on the right path, everyone knows something has to be done, but the Greens are acting on emotion, they pick and choose science to believe, they are seen as nutters because of this, until they mature from the teenage years as a political entity they will be a minority party, too many hair brains pushed in front of the camera to speak for the Greens, they need someone who is speaking nothing but facts and not emotion.
Gretha has set them back a decade with her petulant attitude, and who would vote for a party taking advice from a autistic teenager?

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

No one if afraid of a kid, but only a idiot would take advice from a kid with no life experience, see the difference?
If you took diet advice from a kid you would be eating chocolate for every meal

You still haven't posted a link to support your claim that the greens are against science.

Also, what advice are they or anyone else taking from Greta apart from 'Listen to the science'. Are you saying that that is bad advice?

Buck_rodgers

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Who has taken advice from a kid?

The Greens

Tell me how

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

The Greens

Link please.

Buck_rodgers

The truth is something the Greens don't want to face, they dance around it with fudges.
"The world cannot go on living on a diet of Beef, we must move to a insect based diet."
Hell no, plenty of farm land in Europe to sustain a diet of Beef for the European population, but the current growth rate of Africa will need a insect based diet if the Africans want to live in larger numbers than the land can support on a traditional diet, let the Africans eat insects.

You see sign in nature parks, "Don't feed the wildlife as they will become dependent on the food you give and the population will become dependent on tourists ".
How is that different to the west giving aid to barren lads in Africa allowing them to artificially sustain life in a desert, now Covid-19 has bankrupted the west, famine will run wild in Africa , the West has no money to give.
The do gooders will now reap what they have sowed, famine is coming to Africa, a harmony will be restored to the land.

Pol Pot killed between 1.5 to 2 million, the likes of the Greens will be responsible for more deaths this year in Africa, that's the unpalatable truth of the works of do gooders, following emotion and not facts.

Hawkeye9212

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I’m not a tree hugger, I didn’t vote green. Maybe I should have. I don’t see the big issue with the plans or requests they have? Personal I would like a train line beside each road, even crazier ideas but not for this thread

Can't wait for the new train line to be built alongside the N56 in Donegal. A waste of time and money.

no.8

Micky 32 wrote:

I do love this. It seems that if anyone doesn’t agree with Greta the treehuggers accuse everyone either of hating her or afraid of her lol

It's also because Ireland is full of people who don't want to face change and too used to their comforts over the past 30 odd years.
Truth is our infrastructure (across the board) could be so much better with some lateral thinking and collectiveness. Look at the Dunkettle interchange or the fiasco which is metro north. They have their next excuse to half progress (once again)

efanton

no.8 wrote: »

It's also because Ireland is full of people who don't want to face change and too used to their comforts over the past 30 odd years.
Truth is our infrastructure (across the board) could be so much better with some lateral thinking and collectiveness. Look at the Dunkettle interchange or the fiasco which is metro north. They have their next excuse to half progress (once again)

Thats a totally ridiculous statement to make. Everyone would like a greener Ireland.

The problem with the Green's policies is that as an end goal they are perfect, but their policies dont take into account the path to that end goal. Nor the immense cost.

The green party wants everyone to use public transport. Most towns in Ireland dont have public transport.
The Green solution is stop maintaining roads, or building new ones and tax the bejesus out of those using cars because they have no alternative.
Are they going to provide public transport in all large towns?

The Green want us all to switch to Electric cars. Everyone would if they could afford to buy one. So the green policy in effect crucifies a person for not being rich, without giving them a viable option to afford a electric car.

The Green want to get rid of all fossil fuel power stations. I think everyone would agree as an end goal that is a worth while target. But for the Green's it doesn't have to happen over a few decade period or in a phased and orderly way, it has to happen now. Where is all the electricity going to come from to charge all the electric cars?

The problem with the Green is that they are putting the cart before the horse.
If you live in a city then yes persuade people to use public transport if they can. But the Green policy make absolutely no provision for those that cant.

The other problem with the Green policies is not one single item in the 7 documents they released for their manifesto has been costed. Not a single item has been given an estimated timeline for delivery.

Their policies are about as useful as a chocolate teapot.
What is need is not end goals but policies that transition us to those end goals.
Read the Green party's manifesto. Not once do they suggest an interim measure that leads to the final goals.

We have a housing crisis and we need at least 140,000 homes to clear the waiting lists, we need affordable rental accommodation, and student accommodation as well. You will not hear one single party suggesting that we should spend whatever it takes to buy or build that accommodation because it simply is not feasible in the term of one government.
Yet the Green's are demanding that we fix all our environmental issues within 10 years, an equally unfeasible and unachievable goal.

You suggest to me how that can be done, how much it will cost, and where the money to do it comes from and then I might start listening. Until then what the Green's are suggesting is complete lunacy.

I do agree we need to be greener, and we can definitely do that, but in order to do that we have to have government policies that lead to those goals in an achievable way.
You want people to stop using cars give them an alternative, but dont crucify those who you have not provided with an alternative.
The same with fossil fuels. You want rural homes to stop burning turf, coal or oil, then provide them with an alternative, but if there is no alternative available to them, dont tax the bejesus out of them until that alternative is available.

Paddygreen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KairmsARpyo