Green Party wish list.

Thelonious Monk

Water John wrote: »

The hills need sheep for vegitation management. they were over stocked 20 years ago, not so now. Without sheep, bracken would take over. Trees don't grow on mountainy land sheep or no sheep.

The reference in the post above equating the Greens to Pol Pot is offensive. You do realise that regime was responsible for a genocide.

https://twitter.com/coilltenews/status/1264900567836614657

I guess they're wasting their time planting native trees in the Dublin mountains then? People are so ignorant of nature in this country it's incredible.

major interest

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Lol, Donegal is too mountainous is it? Ever been to Switzerland? Or Austria?
Building more roads is a bad idea at this stage. Stick with what we have and put other means of transport out there. We can't keep designing societies around the car.

In general, I’d agree that the emphasis should move towards sustainable transport. There can be valid exceptions exceptions to the general rule though e.g. the proposed M28 in Cork will facilitate the movement of the port of Cork out of the city centre. This in turn will free up land close to the city centre for housing and commercial use close to existing services and transport links. So even though the M28 is a road project, in the long run it will allow more sustainable/greener development of Cork city in the future and prevent urban sprawl.

Clarence Boddiker

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

The terrain in Donegal isn't suitable for rail. Building new roads is essential to improving the bus network. Faster buses isn't pointless. That's a really stupid statement.

The terrain in Donegal was fine for rail 100 years ago .

no.8

That is just laughable. Please please tell us you are trolling. A mirid of other excuses could have worked but you used you that. That was the one

Look. Rail doesn't suit every corner of the land (or any land) for economical reasons, but nor do new dual-carrigeways (and upwards) either.

Clarence Boddiker

blinding wrote: »

The Green Party’s policy on Open Borders and Mass Immigration goes against every other policy the Greens are for.

Having a policy that goes against everything else the Greens promote is Comical Ali stuff ! !

Excellent video here from Irish Youtuber Keith Woods.
Really exposes the massive contradiction in advocating for mass immigration and open borders at the same time. Focuses on the States mostly, well worth watching.
In fact this topic probably deserves a thread of its own.

Interesting fact that the green movement were always extremely strong advocates of population and immigration control, until they were co opted by corporate interests.

Hawkeye9212

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Lol, Donegal is too mountainous is it? Ever been to Switzerland? Or Austria?
Building more roads is a bad idea at this stage. Stick with what we have and put other means of transport out there. We can't keep designing societies around the car.

Not comparable situations. Building railways in Donegal is not worth the cost. Spend the money on upgrading roads and building greenways. Rural Ireland will always revolve around the car. The cities should revolve around public transport. Of course loads of Dubs still drive to work even though they have a decent public transport network.

Hawkeye9212

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The terrain in Donegal was fine for rail 100 years ago .

It was fine for narrow gauge lines which were mostly used for transporting freight. Building a modern railway on those old lines wouldn't be worth the cost. No government will commit to spending millions to rebuild the Owencarrow Viaduct.

Hawkeye9212

no.8 wrote: »

That is just laughable. Please please tell us you are trolling. A mirid of other excuses could have worked but you used you that. That was the one

Look. Rail doesn't suit every corner of the land (or any land) for economical reasons, but nor do new dual-carrigeways (and upwards) either.

Who said anything about building new dual-carriageways everywhere? Letterkenny needs a new bridge to complete the bypass. Multiple roads are due for upgrades but you lot want to spend millions on buildings new railway lines across Donegal.

Redgirl82

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

Who said anything about building new dual-carriageways everywhere? Letterkenny needs a new bridge to complete the bypass. Multiple roads are due for upgrades but you lot want to spend millions on buildings new railway lines across Donegal.

All of Ireland should be connected via railway. That should be a basic to start with.

The benefit to tourist etc would be huge. Even for remote worker, live in Donegal and get train down if required, the ability to work on train while travelling is huge plus

No idea why people want to build more roads, have we not figured out that roads have done nothing to increase our standard of living? If anything they have made it worse

Water John

Monk you grow species where ever they will thrive. I live on fairly high ground and all my life in a rural setting in Cork.
Height above sea level and which part of the country dictates thrive of different species. We can grow horse chestnut at 500ft but not at 700ft here.
We had Japanese Larch planted at 500ft die, whilst the same will thrive in Wicklow at 1,110 ft.
Very much in favour of replanting trees, wherever they will thrive.

The Govn't talks seem positive this evening, With the 7% target being spread across the sectors and not loaded on agriculture.

Hawkeye9212

Redgirl82 wrote: »

All of Ireland should be connected via railway. That should be a basic to start with.

The benefit to tourist etc would be huge. Even for remote worker, live in Donegal and get train down if required, the ability to work on train while travelling is huge plus

No idea why people want to build more roads, have we not figured out that roads have done nothing to increase our standard of living? If anything they have made it worse

No, it shouldn't. Building new railways in rural Donegal isn't sustainable or economical. The old lines should be converted to greenways. That would help tourism. Why would a remote worker in West Donegal get on a train for 4 hours when they can drive to the airport and get a 45 minute flight to Dublin or Glasgow?

Clarence Boddiker

I've got nothing against cars but the reality is trains are the future, or at least should be the future. Its madness really building motorways instead of investing in rail. Certainly every large town such as Letterkenny should have a tram system.
As for the cost? Short term pain for long term gain.
Unfortunately as we know the strategy in Ireland is short term gain, long term pain.

Bass Reeves

Redgirl82 wrote: »

All of Ireland should be connected via railway. That should be a basic to start with.

The benefit to tourist etc would be huge. Even for remote worker, live in Donegal and get train down if required, the ability to work on train while travelling is huge plus

No idea why people want to build more roads, have we not figured out that roads have done nothing to increase our standard of living? If anything they have made it worse

At present rail including the Luas and Dart carries 2.5% of national commuter traffic. Trains are not suitable to carry small numbers of people on long or short journeys. The demand is not there. Tourism is not going to benefit from rail. Tourist come to Ireland for either short city breaks or on a sight seeing holidays. In both cases trains will account for minimal part of there travel plans.

Bus connect is going to cost 1 billion it will increase footfall on buses in Dublin by 50%+. That is the equivlent of all Dublin rail commuter transport at present. The Dublin Metro North will cost triple the money and only carry 20% of that extra amount of commuters at best

Bass Reeves

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I've got nothing against cars but the reality is trains are the future, or at least should be the future. Its madness really building motorways instead of investing in rail. Certainly every large town such as Letterkenny should have a tram system.
As for the cost? Short term pain for long term gain.
Unfortunately as we know the strategy in Ireland is short term gain, long term pain.

We cannot afford it. And even if we could it would not be economical use of funds. Read Colm McCarthys piece in the Sunday Independent yesterday

Hawkeye9212

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I've got nothing against cars but the reality is trains are the future, or at least should be the future. Its madness really building motorways instead of investing in rail. Certainly every large town such as Letterkenny should have a tram system.
As for the cost? Short term pain for long term gain.
Unfortunately as we know the strategy in Ireland is short term gain, long term pain.

Letterkenny only needs a good bus network. Most of the town is walkable anyway.

Rows Grower

Redgirl82 wrote: »

All of Ireland should be connected via railway. That should be a basic to start with.

The benefit to tourist etc would be huge. Even for remote worker, live in Donegal and get train down if required, the ability to work on train while travelling is huge plus

No idea why people want to build more roads, have we not figured out that roads have done nothing to increase our standard of living? If anything they have made it worse

Should be yeah but we don't live in Utopia we live in Ireland, where there were people not too far from where I live that didn't have electricity until 1976.

Water John

It's not going to happen. Nobody is going to build new railway in Ireland except light rail in an urban setting. The Greens advocating it makes about the same sense as LB in the 1960s and 70s policy of, nationalising the banks.
Promoting something like that undermines many good Green policies that need to be implemented.

Bass Reeves

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

Letterkenny only needs a good bus network. Most of the town is walkable anyway.

It not just Letterkenny. Because of there sprawling nature most cities in Ireland only need a good quality bus service.

efanton

Bass Reeves wrote: »

CMM said that electrification of rail lines is costed in the UK at 200m euro/km for a single line. To do that for Irish railways it would cost about 5billion.

At present rail(Luas, Dart and Irish rail) account for about 2.5% of national commuter journeys

Redgirl82 wrote: »

All of Ireland should be connected via railway. That should be a basic to start with.

The benefit to tourist etc would be huge. Even for remote worker, live in Donegal and get train down if required, the ability to work on train while travelling is huge plus

No idea why people want to build more roads, have we not figured out that roads have done nothing to increase our standard of living? If anything they have made it worse

Why you insistence of rail over roads?
Can you show me any report that makes it clear that rail is more beneficial than roads in rural Ireland?

Rail is far more expensive, its environmental impact is worse than that of roads, and the tourist will be going nowhere by rail. If they want to see most tourist spots in Ireland they might be able to do part of their journey by rail but the majority is likely to be done by bus. all hotel and airport pick ups will be done by coaches too.

You simply cant say roads are bad and rail is good. Both could be good and bad depending on the situation.
In rural Ireland rail is very much the more expensive financially and will have the most impact on the environment as well as serving the least number of people..

Once we have converted all the cars to electric how much impact will a motorway have on the the environment compare to a rail line?

Clarence Boddiker

Bass Reeves wrote: »

We cannot afford it. And even if we could it would not be economical use of funds. Read Colm McCarthys piece in the Sunday Independent yesterday

I don't really rate 'Dr Hindsight' McCarthy at all tbh
A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

efanton

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I don't really rate 'Dr Hindsight' McCarthy at all tbh
A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Forget the financial impact.

Look at it form an environmental point of view.

You build a rail line, you now have to electrify it, or choose to continue to used diesel guzzling locomotives. Now any one in a rural are cant just teleport from their homes to a rali station so how are they going to get there?
Their only option is by car unless you are going to provide public transport between every single town in the country.
Those cars are going to need somewhere to park if their owners want to use a train. Where is the acres of car parking space going to be made available?

Where as if you built a motorway, speed up the conversion of cars to electric vehicles, it would not only be far far cheaper, but it would be far far more environmentally friendly.

Where is all the steel going to come from to build these rail lines? how is this steel produced? how are you going to power the locomotives because if its diesel then you haven't benefited the environment and a t the moment any new electrified rail line will be getting its power form a fossil fuel power station.

Make the environmental case for rail lines because to be honest I cant see it at all

Redgirl82

efanton wrote: »

Why you insistence of rail over roads?
Can you show me any report that makes it clear that rail is more beneficial than roads in rural Ireland?

Rail is far more expensive, its environmental impact is worse than that of roads, and the tourist will be going nowhere by rail. If they want to see most tourist spots in Ireland they might be able to do part of their journey by rail but the majority is likely to be done by bus. all hotel and airport pick ups will be done by coaches too.

You simply cant say roads are bad and rail is good. Both could be good and bad depending on the situation.
In rural Ireland rail is very much the more expensive financially and will have the most impact on the environment as well as serving the least number of people..

Once we have converted all the cars to electric how much impact will a motorway have on the the environment compare to a rail line?

Converting 1 million cars from combustion to electric is not green.

Public transport is the direction Ireland should be moving in, like every other nation

“Rail transport is the most environment-friendly way to travel. The greenhouse effect of gas emissions per kilometer on railway transport is 80% less than cars. In some countries, less than 3% of all transport gas emissions come from trains. The only methods more environmentally friendly than trains are walking and cycling. There are many reasons why choosing to travel by train is environmentally friendly and we would like to share these with you!“

Another: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-49349566

Water John

So railway is 80%, EV is 66% compared to ICE. Rail and other transport systems promoted in urban areas, EVs is the realistic alt for rural dwellers like me. We have 2 EVs.

Redgirl82

Water John wrote: »

So railway is 80%, EV is 66% compared to ICE. Rail and other transport systems promoted in urban areas, EVs is the realistic alt for rural dwellers like me. We have 2 EVs.

The roads are over capacity, putting the same number or more cars on the road is not the answer. No matter what fuel it uses. Mass public transport is the answer

Hawkeye9212

Redgirl82 wrote: »

The roads are over capacity, putting the same number or more cars on the road is not the answer. No matter what fuel it uses. Mass public transport is the answer

Mass public transport isn't feasible in rural areas. It's great for cities and towns but not everyone lives in a city or a town.

Bass Reeves

Redgirl82 wrote: »

The roads are over capacity, putting the same number or more cars on the road is not the answer. No matter what fuel it uses. Mass public transport is the answer

incorrect

Water John

Redgirl what your'e proposing is not realistic. I live in a rural area, public transport is a non runner.
What roads are full?

Redgirl82

Water John wrote: »

Redgirl what your'e proposing is not realistic. I live in a rural area, public transport is a non runner.
What roads are full?

Name one city without traffic issues?

Look at even the bigger towns and they are at a standstill....connecting all major town and cities with public transport is the only way forward, Dublin and major cities will continue to be central hubs for jobs. What’s the plan to get people in and out of these cities?

efanton

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Converting 1 million cars from combustion to electric is not green.

Public transport is the direction Ireland should be moving in, like every other nation

“Rail transport is the most environment-friendly way to travel. The greenhouse effect of gas emissions per kilometer on railway transport is 80% less than cars. In some countries, less than 3% of all transport gas emissions come from trains. The only methods more environmentally friendly than trains are walking and cycling. There are many reasons why choosing to travel by train is environmentally friendly and we would like to share these with you!“

Another: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-49349566

Its only 3% because all those train are electrified.
The comparison made in that link is with a fossil fueled car.
And why use a likn that has nothing to do with Ireland. Surely the Green's at this stage have done a cost/benefit analysis for rail services in Ireland, if not why not surely that their thing.


So lets compare like with like shall we. Do you believe that an electrified rail service will be greener than a motorway serving electrified vehicles?

You do realise that less than 3% of commuter journeys in Ireland are by rail. Even if you were to put up rail lines everywhere (but you couldn't because it would be totally unaffordable) you would still need the roads because people have to get from their homes to the rail stations.
Also exactly how many people would it be possible to carry on these new rail lines? Have you got a number for that?

So how many rural journeys by cars would you reasonably expect the rail services to replace?

The environmental impacts of building rail lines are proven to be far greater than that of roads. Where do yo think all that steel comes from? and how is it made?

Do you realise that it would be as cheap to give everyone a free electric vehicle than to provide electrified rail services between every major town.

Redgirl82

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

Mass public transport isn't feasible in rural areas. It's great for cities and towns but not everyone lives in a city or a town.

I’m talking about connecting towns and cities.....what percentage of population will live outside going forward and