Green Party wish list.

Kermit.de.frog

How long will this last, 6 months?

Galwayguy35

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Our CO2 per capita is higher than China....

There is a billion of them, 5 million of us so I'd say the Chinese are having a bigger impact on things than little old Ireland.

I suppose you don't want us saving a bit of turf either.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

agriculture is the biggest contributor to carbon emissions full stop in this country

i dont know what you mean by 1/10th of what its worth ?

if farmers want to sell their land , they can , im not suggesting current farmers have to plant , they could sell instead and whoever buys could plant , beef farming should be phased out however for the most part ,we can get all the steaks we need from the dairy herd

beef farming requires tax payer subsidisation in this country , why not instead just subsidise forestry but for the entire duration the trees takes to grow ?

I don't know if this is subtle sarcasm?

gifted

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not unless they take no holiday which I doubt

Also if spending that much on fuel they are an silly not to move to electric, even a cheap Leaf will do 100km

And how much is a cheap leaf to buy? Would it be about €18000?.....I'd have to get a loan and now I'm in debt!

Tell me how

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I don't know I'm not a politician.

What I do know is I am a person who like many others works and pays taxes so if I'm hit with extra penalties just for the type of car I drive I won't be happy.

Let The USA, China and India get their house in order first.

We have no direct control over what the USA, China, India do, but the best thing we can do is to adhere to the commitments which we signed up to and then be able to demand that they also do. Many in the US have looked with dismay at Trumps withdrawal from that agreement and some states have committed to still aiming to cut their emissions in line with the agreement.

As for you not being a politician, what has that to do with anything?

You either have an interest in what is going on in the country in which you live or you don't. As you are taking part in this conversation, I presume you do.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

average dual income households now are forced to buy housing on average 25km outside Dublin City. Most of these locations are served by 1 private bus operator or not at all. Even places like drogheda, newbridge and Gorey are pricing out average families now.

These people have no other method of getting to work in Dublin than a car. Places like the M3 parkway park and ride or the red cow luas help, but are not a feasible solution. Those people are now going to be taxed even more for not taking an option they don't have. Its just such a Green Party answer to the problem 'if we increase tax maybe a lad living in dundrum will take the luas to work' and not a thought paid for the guy who could only afford a house in summerhill, meath.

an improved motorway network doesn't encourage private car use to the city, it enabled businesses to relocate outside the city, minimising the average workers commute. It enables faster deliveries to businesses outside the city and allows people to save money and emissions not sitting in traffic or crawling through villages.

Perish the thought where we try to have a situation where 40% of the entire population of the country is not working within the greater Dublin region.

Shefwedfan

gifted wrote: »

And how much is a cheap leaf to buy? Would it be about €18000?.....I'd have to get a loan and now I'm in debt!

Leaf selling for 5k upwards

Shefwedfan

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

There is a billion of them, 5 million of us so I'd say the Chinese are having a bigger impact on things than little old Ireland.

I suppose you don't want us saving a bit of turf either.

Look after your own and let them worry about theirs

If Ireland over achieves in our CO2 target we can then sell our credits to other countries for billions

Would that make sense?

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

average dual income households now are forced to buy housing on average 25km outside Dublin City. Most of these locations are served by 1 private bus operator or not at all. Even places like drogheda, newbridge and Gorey are pricing out average families now.

These people have no other method of getting to work in Dublin than a car. Places like the M3 parkway park and ride or the red cow luas help, but are not a feasible solution. Those people are now going to be taxed even more for not taking an option they don't have. Its just such a Green Party answer to the problem 'if we increase tax maybe a lad living in dundrum will take the luas to work' and not a thought paid for the guy who could only afford a house in summerhill, meath.

an improved motorway network doesn't encourage private car use to the city, it enabled businesses to relocate outside the city, minimising the average workers commute. It enables faster deliveries to businesses outside the city and allows people to save money and emissions not sitting in traffic or crawling through villages.

An improved public transport system will mean companies can relocate outside of cities

A train system which would allow day commuter land in Dublin airport, just on a train and be in let say Navan in 30-40 mins would be a lot better than a motorway which means they spend an hour sitting on m50 looking at the airport

McMurphy

Shefwedfan wrote: »

50km is not a long commute

It's 25*more than the 2km this fella wants to see others punished for.

Tell me how wrote: »

• 50% of all journeys under 2Km in Ireland are taken using the car. Maybe an increased cost in fuel will force people to think about whether it is the best option to use.

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Leaf selling for 5k upwards

How much to get one without 4 bars missing?
What will the other 99.5% of the population do when those few Leafs are sold?

Shefwedfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How much to get one without 4 bars missing?
What will the other 99.5% of the population do when those few Leafs are sold?

The rest of the population had no issue buying diesel from the uk, paying VRt, free VRT on electric from the Uk.

All those import diesel as well cost a hell of a lot more than a cheap Leaf

Check out motors forum for proof....

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The rest of the population had no issue buying diesel from the uk, paying VRt, free VRT on electric from the Uk.

do you think the UK has an inexhaustible supply of Leafs?

Sorry, I shouldn't have phrased that as a question because I know that you know damn well that secondhand EVs of any description are in short supply over there now.

efanton

Tell me how wrote: »

Well, first off, I don't see how abolishing the 7% target would achieve anything other than allowing governments to apply token gestures which they point to as their commitment to the cause.

I would argue the opposite.
It would be easy for a government to introduce some polices that give a quick fix and reach that 7% reduction. What do they do then, well the temptation would be to stop because if they do anything more its going to make reaching next years target harder. Instead of leaving it open and going for the maximum achievable reduction each year with a fixed target you are actually limiting what could be done in the short term.
Surely a more sensible approach would have targets based over a longer time period. 5 years or 10 years say. for instance 30% over 5 years. Some projects will take that long to implement.

Second, the idea that an extensive network of motorways would be beneficial in the long run is not realistic. It will encourage private vehicle use which cannot be taken door to door efficiently. Getting 1000 cars to the edge of a city quicker is not advantageous when those 1000 cars spend longer edging their way through the final 3km to their destinations.

Expanding the motorway network allows more good to be transported more efficiently.
Do you realise how much fuel a HGV vehicle goes through each day. A HGV articulate lorry will do about 12 MPG and that's if its moving at a steady speed. Have them going through towns and reduced speed limits, stopping at junctions and that fuel efficiency drops dramatically. In fact on a normal road journey from say Cork to Limerick a HGV could use 20-25% more diesel compared to a journey done by motorway.
Motorways are not just for cars you know.

They reduce fuel usage (for those have have yet to switch to electric), keep traffic out of towns, are far safer than normal roads, and reduce journey times.
In the UK they have park and ride schemes in most large towns so those that use the motorways do not have to bring their cars into the the centre of towns and cities. Motorways make Park and Ride a viable solution that would not be feasible with a normal road network..

With a switch to electric cars what disadvantage would there be to motorways?

Given the amount people spend on their cars as a percentage of their income, people should be dying for an alternative mode of transport.

Given that for the majority of towns in Ireland people have no access to public transport, I am sure they would love nothing more than to walk out the door have a bus waiting nearby that will take them to somewhere very close to their destination. But the reality is for most journeys outside of out major towns and cities people do not have that sort of luxury. Even if you were to have public transport stopping at most towns how do the people living in villages and the surrounding area get to those buses. All well and good you looking at things from your city point of view but I hate to shock you with a fact, most people in Ireland do not live in a city.

A more suitable public transport fleet would not be empty half the time if it met the needs of the population. Personally, I would advocate for cycling options as first and foremost to get people out of their cars for the short journeys while recognizing that not all journeys can not be made on bike.

You really have no idea at all of what you are talking about do you.
Most people living in villages have a 5 miles or more journey to work, to a supermarket, or to a school. While a short cycle ride into a village might be feasible are you suggesting that people commute 15 to 20 miles a day on a bicycle? What about parents with kids that need to get to school, do you think its feasible for 5 to 10 year olds to be cycling 10 miles a day. I wouldn't have kids cycling a mile or two down the roads where we live. The roads are badly maintained, there's nothing but dangerous bends, and the roads as so narrow that there no passing room unless you want to see a string of cars following 5 year old on their bicycle for miles at a time. Yet the Green want to ban all improvements to rural roads.
You are in dreamland, you have no concept of what it is like to live in a rural areas, which is where half the population lives.

As others have pointed out, electric vehicles are not absolutely clean and it is not an attractive solution that we focus on them above suitable alternatives.

You are right an electric car is not absolutely clean. But tell me this do you think public transport will be any cleaner?

Of course it will not as as I have stated earlier, in a rural setting that public transport is likely to create more pollution than the electric cars you think it might replace.

But, all that being said, I take it from your post that you agree that change is needed and as a consequence I would hope that instead of shooting down green suggestions, you would suggest they tweak them to achieve the optimum goals.
Some people genuinely don't give a sh*t about any conservation of the environment and to have people who agree it is needed but differ on exactly how railing on those trying to bring about change is making it easy for those who don't care to get their way of nothing really changing.

You really do need to take a reality pill.
Give people an affordable option, and they will take it. If an electric car is cheaper than a petrol or diesel car which car are they going to buy?

You dont need to crucify them with carbon taxes, to make them realise that if they had a electric car it would be so much better than the diesel car they are currently using. The point you miss is that many of those diesel cars will still be on the road in 10 years time because people cant afford to change them and it would ot matter how much petrol or diesel prices increase.

That money you would have the government waste on public transport in rural areas could have eradicated EVERY diesel car in the country in a matter of a few years had the government instead made purchasing an electric vehicle affordable to all.
Instead what the Green are advocating guarantees that we will still be seeing diesel and petrol cars in 10 years time.

In fact I would not be at all surprised to find out that if the government bought every single household an electric car it would be cheaper than what the Greens want the government to spend on public transport.

Shefwedfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

do you think the UK has an inexhaustible supply of Leafs?

Sorry, I shouldn't have phrased that as a question because I know that you know damn well that secondhand EVs of any description are in short supply over there now.

Really? Have you looked?

Funny because the single electric car specialist in Ireland has seen 3 others join in, as well as Windsor and other large garages do the exact same. The number of new Leaf 2 bought in last few years also pushed more second hand into the market

Tesla 3 is out, as above the price range spent on second hand diesel in the uk is right up the range to Q7 etc.....just swap that for electric

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Really? Have you looked?

Funny because the single electric car specialist in Ireland has seen 3 others join in, as well as Windsor and other large garages do the exact same. The number of new Leaf 2 bought in last few years also pushed more second hand into the market

Tesla 3 is out, as above the price range spent on second hand diesel in the uk is right up the range to Q7 etc.....just swap that for electric

Prices of secondhand EVs in the UK has been increasing. People buying secondhand EVs two years ago in the UK have been reselling them with no depreciation suffered.
You'll continue lying to the forum but don't bull**** me.

dmakc

Mad_maxx wrote: »

agriculture is the biggest contributor to carbon emissions full stop in this country

i dont know what you mean by 1/10th of what its worth ?

if farmers want to sell their land , they can , im not suggesting current farmers have to plant , they could sell instead and whoever buys could plant , beef farming should be phased out however for the most part ,we can get all the steaks we need from the dairy herd

beef farming requires tax payer subsidisation in this country , why not instead just subsidise forestry but for the entire duration the trees takes to grow ?

You're either trolling or being sarcastic, surely? The high level solution without any actual thought or knowledge of said procedures involved is very reminiscent of Eamon himself.

Shefwedfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Prices of secondhand EVs in the UK has been increasing. People buying secondhand EVs two years ago in the UK have been reselling them with no depreciation suffered.
You'll continue lying to the forum but don't bull**** me.

So now England has electric cars but they are not cheap?

In reality for a few years yes EV prices even in Ireland went back up, that was becaus of heavy depreciation at the start. I enjoyed this on a eGolf and Leaf when I bought and sold a few years later with no loss

That was when no other cars around. With the Leaf 2 launch it flooded the market here and in uk with Leaf 1, eGolf 2 is out and loads buying, you now have electric from all main manufacturers and of course the famous Tesla 3 is out. Check electric car forum where some of the guys picked up the Tesla S for next to nothing for a car that starts at 70k I think

But I’m sure your aware of all of this :-)

It is with nothing when I had my eGolf Gen 1, 2 be garages in the entire island could service, now nearly every Vw can and the new ID will be launched soon which VW say will replace the Golf....in sure you knew that as well

Bass Reeves

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Our CO2 per capita is higher than China....

Ireland is 13.2tons/capita, the EU as a whole is 6.8/capita, guess what China is over 7/capita and there is 3 time more Chinese than Europeans.

Ireland has an issue when carbon measurements were put in place no factor was put in place for recycling of methane by grass growth. CO2 emissions were all treated as if every kg of beef or litre of milk was produced exactly the same world wide. But it not. As well only forestry was considered as a carbon sink, we get no allowance for our hedgerows. We 3-4times the hedgerows of UK and guess what they have 3-4 times the hedgerows of the rest of Europe. . It brings us closer to the EU average for forestry

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Our CO2 per capita is higher than China....

how about we keep millions of people in abject poverty in rural areas to keep that per capita number down like china does.

efanton

Mad_maxx wrote: »

agriculture is the biggest contributor to carbon emissions full stop in this country

i dont know what you mean by 1/10th of what its worth ?

if farmers want to sell their land , they can , im not suggesting current farmers have to plant , they could sell instead and whoever buys could plant , beef farming should be phased out however for the most part ,we can get all the steaks we need from the dairy herd

beef farming requires tax payer subsidisation in this country , why not instead just subsidise forestry but for the entire duration the trees takes to grow ?

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about. Seriously have you thought it through at all?

Farmers in this country predominantly keep livestock because its the only viable way to make a profit with the land they have.

You get rid of the beef, you get rid of the meat processing plants, the cheese factories, the milk suppliers. Do you realise how many jobs will be lost?

But lets imagine a farmer decides in a moment of madness to get rid of his dairy or beef herd. He now wants to grow vegetables instead.
With our climate it would be impossible to grow multplie crops each year, unless you grew all these vegatables under plastic or in geen houses.
Now to keep producing multple crops each year he the farmer is going to have to use huge amount of pesticides which predominantly come from fossil fuel such as oil or gas. He will also have to use massive amount of fertilisers in order to get multiple crops each year.
Those farmers that use greenhouses are going to have to heat them for multiple months of the year if they intend to harvest multiple crops each year.
Finally he is going to have to use machinery to harvest those crops.
Even after all that his produce is still more expensive than the fruit and veg that is imported to this country. The cost of your weekly shop has now dramatically increased.

There's a reason why country like Spain which have a warmer drier climate are predominately horticultural and Ireland is not. They have a climate that allows multiple crops every year, they dont have to deal with plant pests and diseases that prefer a mild and wet climate which mean they dont have to use as much pesticides.

The reality is that if Ireland switched from livestock based agriculture to horticulture there would be an INCREASE in the use of fossil fuels, pesticides, fertilisers and emissions.

Bass Reeves

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not unless they take no holiday which I doubt

Also if spending that much on fuel they are an silly not to move to electric, even a cheap Leaf will do 100km

Most people put up as much milage on holidays as going to work. My calculations for there total mileage is on the conservative side

Shefwedfan

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Most people put up as much milage on holidays as going to work. My calculations for there total mileage is on the conservative side

Which makes the case for electric even more compelling

Beechwoodspark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You could be a supporter of Green initiatives I suppose. What is a "green supporter"? Is that like a member of Opus Dei except for a different religion.
Any aviation tax would please you or one which reduce the environmental footprint of carriers operating in and out of Ireland while not undermining Ireland's competitive position in relation to other open economies?

My views on aviation have been aired on other threads but my preference is for

A tax on all carriers and all airport operators in Ireland

A green levy on all airfares

You can then tinker with the levy, lower end for essential travel and higher end for non essential travel. Also factor in flight lengths.

Ideally tax and levy put into green R and D

Aviation cut dramatically until a C neutal solution is adopted. Once that is introduced -fly away, as far as I am concerned.

Shefwedfan

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

My views on aviation have been aired on other threads but my preference is for

A tax on all carriers and all airport operators in Ireland

A green levy on all airfares

Ideally tax and levy put into green R and D

Aviation cut dramatically until a C neutal solution is adopted. Once that is introduced fly away, as far as I am concerned.

What about boats?

Beechwoodspark

Did any one catch what George Lee said a few
Mins ago on RTÉ news - something along the lines of 1 million euro spent per day of the lifetime of the new govt on cycle and walking tracks - is that correct?

Beechwoodspark

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What about boats?

Solar powered passenger ships are the coming technology

Itssoeasy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Did any one catch what George Lee said a few
Mins ago on RTÉ news - something along the lines of 1 million euro spent per day of the lifetime of the new govt on cycle and walking tracks - is that correct?

I saw him and then muted my tv so sorry no I didn't. I can't be listening to his misery.

Edit: 1 million a day ? Ffs we dont need greenways everywhere. It's going to be challenging times public finances wise, the last thing we need to be spending that kind of money on cycle and Green ways. I think we should spend money but not that amount.

efanton

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

My views on aviation have been aired on other threads but my preference is for

A tax on all carriers and all airport operators in Ireland

A green levy on all airfares

Ideally tax and levy put into green R and D

Aviation cut dramatically until a C neutal solution is adopted. Once that is introduced fly away, as far as I am concerned.

There is never going to be anything like a carbon neutral solution for air transport.

Also you must take into consideration that air transport is not only quicker than land but also is in many situations actually much better than truck, rail or ship.
When you are flying on your holiday, you might not realise it but it is likely that that plane is also carrying cargo as well.
Airlines will maximise their return on fuel usage.

Let me put it another way. A 747 uses 5 gallons of fuel per mile.
That sounds horrendous doesn't it.
But consider that that 747 typically carries 500 passengers as well as cargo at the same time.

A 747 is transporting 500 people 1 mile using 5 gallons of fuel. That means the plane is burning 0.01 gallons per person per mile. In other words, the plane is getting 100 miles per gallon per person! And that doesn't even account for any additional cargo carried.

Do they sound horrendously fuel inefficient now?

You tell me any other form of transport that can get that sort of fuel economy per person carried.

Shefwedfan

They done a test, airplane from london to glasgow would be better than shipping everyone in cars