Green Party wish list.

Thelonious Monk

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

1st or 10th preference vote? more importantly what was the rationale behind their selection?

First vote all round. Rational was Ireland and the world are going to sh*t ecologically and our current lifestyles as mega consumers are completely unsustainable. We need change.

Shefwedfan

Has anyone, ANYONE seen what the Greens have put in?

Seems like a lot of talk about taxing this and that but every manifesto for the election mentioned Green initiatives. So I would expect FG and FF have some as well?

Wanderer78

Pa ElGrande wrote:

1st or 10th preference vote? more importantly what was the rationale behind their selection?

Greens are normally 1/2 for me, environmental matters are extremely important to me

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

Has anyone, ANYONE seen what the Greens have put in?

I'd imagine banning off shore gas exploration was theirs

Shefwedfan

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

First vote all round. Rational was Ireland and the world are going to sh*t ecologically and our current lifestyles as mega consumers are completely unsustainable. We need change.

We also have a society which is based on the car and loads of over weight kids. Moving away from the car and to a more healthy means of transport will help in the future as well

Shefwedfan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd imagine banning off shore gas exploration was theirs

Yes that was Greens. But I have yet to see the full announcement or what each party has put in


At the moment it seems to be Greens All Bad.....FF/FG nothing. People need to start to cop on.....

Wanderer78

Shefwedfan wrote:

At the moment it seems to be Greens All Bad.....FF/FG nothing. People need to start to cop on.....

Greens aren't gonna come out of this too good no matter what, and I'd say ffg will be happy about that, they may have a good scapegoat

Thelonious Monk

Shefwedfan wrote: »

We also have a society which is based on the car and loads of over weight kids. Moving away from the car and to a more healthy means of transport will help in the future as well

Yes but this is seen as an attack on our precious rural Ireland friends who through decades of zero planning have themselves in a situation where every household seems to need 2+ cars.

Galwayguy35

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

We are world renowned for farming and the product we supply

The final nail for FG in rural Ireland if this goes through

Both FG and FF rely heavily on rural voters so its baffling how they just agreed to basically everything the Greens asked for.

Wiil be amazed if they can sell it to their grassroots supporterrs.

Shefwedfan

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Both FG and FF rely heavily on rural voters so its baffling how they just agreed to basically everything the Greens asked for.

Wiil be amazed if they can sell it to their grassroots supporterrs.

WHat have they agreed to?

Danzy

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Both FG and FF rely heavily on rural voters so its baffling how they just agreed to basically everything the Greens asked for.

Wiil be amazed if they can sell it to their grassroots supporterrs.

It's coming in either way from Brussels, so they give it to the Greens now and blame them if people don't like.

Idbatterim

Taxis should be massively incentivised to go electric, we need cars doing high mileage in towns and cities to go electric as a priority. The road spend v other transport spend to date , has been an obscene disgrace , I am glad that is being tackled. Youd wonder about getting rid of free parking for shopping centres ... Make it even a euro a visit etc , might influence people that live very close to it behaviour. All free parking in dublin city centre should be taxed. Possibly even start tolling crossing the canals, like 50c each time. Not penal , but enough to stop totally lazy journeys that could be walked or cycled, or public transport. Ringfence revenue for Infrastructure and public transport investment That's the issue with cars , after the motor tax has been paid and insurance, the cost per trop is nearly nothing....

Thelonious Monk

Danzy wrote: »

It's coming in either way from Brussels, so they give it to the Greens now and blame them if people don't like.

Yup, and it wasn't the Greens in power who signed up to the Paris agreement yet they're taking all the flack for destroying rural Ireland lol

Danzy

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yup, and it wasn't the Greens in power who signed up to the Paris agreement yet they're taking all the flack for destroying rural Ireland lol

I have to agree with you there.

Shefwedfan

Danzy wrote: »

It's coming in either way from Brussels, so they give it to the Greens now and blame them if people don't like.

That's the point people are missing. FG signed up to Paris agreement not the Greens


All of the political parties has a huge section on Green initiatives. It was a huge discussion at the election.



Who would people blame if the Greens didnt get in? FF and FG and even SF if they went into power HAD to implement these changes

Bass Reeves

Wanderer78 wrote: »

They come up with some daft ideas at times also

I think this is the Greens biggest problem. Even over the last year. Eamon Ryan brain fart about reintroducing wolves something that will never happen, or his or thinking on the N/M20 project really got people's backs up. Then we have the headless thinking on agriculture.

People who are not green voters are afraid of another disaster similar to the car tax reform. The fact is we are where we are. Radical idea thrown out to the public without looking into the details causes concerns about green policy

Shefwedfan

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think this is the Greens biggest problem. Even over the last year. Eamon Ryan brain fart about reintroducing wolves something that will never happen, or his or thinking on the N/M20 project really got people's backs up. Then we have the headless thinking on agriculture.

People who are not green voters are afraid of another disaster similar to the car tax reform. The fact is we are where we are. Radical idea thrown out to the public without looking into the details causes concerns about green policy

The Wolves was somethign in 50 years was it not?

What was his headless thinking on agri? according to the manifesto he said farmers should be moving towards organic if possible. Which is 100% correct as a huge section of market is moving that direction. It was also posted on here that hundred of farmers went for grants to move to organic and got rejected. So is he not just saying to help the farmers that already want to move?



The car tax reform was not a disaster. Seriously. The reaction of the Irish people was a disaster. The whole point of the scheme was to reduce the output from cars. It was not for everyone to scrap good cars and buy new ones to save hundred quid a year on tax


Even today, look at the motors forum and you will see people with a list of recommendations and then "cheap tax". It is f**king idiotic what went on, 2007 cars traded in for 2008 at the cost of thousands because they could save 200 euro a year on tax? the business case didnt pay for for 4-5 years.....


Clowns going around, oh I bougth XYZ, only 300 tax :rolleyes:

Thelonious Monk

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think this is the Greens biggest problem. Even over the last year. Eamon Ryan brain fart about reintroducing wolves something that will never happen, or his or thinking on the N/M20 project really got people's backs up. Then we have the headless thinking on agriculture.

People who are not green voters are afraid of another disaster similar to the car tax reform. The fact is we are where we are. Radical idea thrown out to the public without looking into the details causes concerns about green policy

The wolves comment was just lampooned by the media. To anyone with an interest in ecosystems and wildlife it was quite a good goal for Ireland to have.

What Eamon said was that we would need to have some kind of wilderness first, which at the moment isn't really possible due to the whole country being farmland, a disaster for biodiversity. He said it wouldn't happen in his lifetime, and that we'd need decades of forestation first.

Belgium and Holland have resident wolves now, far more densely populated than here, but there are forest corridors there, something we'd need to get going here too. My friend lives in Arnhem and there are wild boar in the woods near his house. The UK has reintroduced beavers and wild boars there. I find it a damn shame we've nothing resembling wilderness here, even the Magillacuddy Reeks were covered in sheep last year when I was going up Carrauntoohil.

So it's not going to happen, but this is really the sort of thing we should be thriving for, in my opinion, instead of living on a completely domesticated island.

Danzy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think this is the Greens biggest problem. Even over the last year. Eamon Ryan brain fart about reintroducing wolves something that will never happen, or his or thinking on the N/M20 project really got people's backs up. Then we have the headless thinking on agriculture.

People who are not green voters are afraid of another disaster similar to the car tax reform. The fact is we are where we are. Radical idea thrown out to the public without looking into the details causes concerns about green policy

This.

Add in there are some Green TDs who have bizarre niche views that are so extreme most people couldn't see how they'd be implemented without severe crises.

dmakc

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes but this is seen as an attack on our precious rural Ireland friends who through decades of zero planning have themselves in a situation where every household seems to need 2+ cars.

Jesus the fact that families need 2+ cars shouldn't even break the top 100 issues this new government is facing. It's a tough juggling act already to rear a family with two jobs. But believe it or not countryside living is actually desirable to many - not some government planning accident. This ain't a dictatorship, the government is for 26 counties, not just Dublin, which for all it's planning is still a nightmare to navigate, a life I wish never to return to (working from home is a more realistic solution to car USAGE, but never heard this in the greens prospectus).

The virtue signallers must be doing alright if they're crying about car ownership elsewhere, indeed the looming economy fallout may present them with a rare real problem to consider.

Snow Garden

This negotiating until 4am is a complete nonsense. It might have been great optics in the past but it is all for show now.
How can you be negotiating when utterly exhuasted? We're already waiting 4 months so pretending to put in a 'hard weekend' is just patronising.

dmakc

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The wolves comment was just lampooned by the media. To anyone with an interest in ecosystems and wildlife it was quite a good goal for Ireland to have.

What Eamon said was that we would need to have some kind of wilderness first, which at the moment isn't really possible due to the whole country being farmland, a disaster for biodiversity. He said it wouldn't happen in his lifetime, and that we'd need decades of forestation first.

Belgium and Holland have resident wolves now, far more densely populated than here, but there are forest corridors there, something we'd need to get going here too. My friend lives in Arnhem and there are wild boar in the woods near his house. The UK has reintroduced beavers and wild boars there. I find it a damn shame we've nothing resembling wilderness here, even the Magillacuddy Reeks were covered in sheep last year when I was going up Carrauntoohil.

So it's not going to happen, but this is really the sort of thing we should be thriving for, in my opinion, instead of living on a completely domesticated island.

People make their living off said farmland. Your ideology involves ruining human lives and employment for the sake of a few wolves. This is why the greens aren't considered rural friendly.

If you want to make an actual difference instead of virtue signalling to rural Ireland from the confines of North Dublin, why don't you buy 200 acres, fence it off and populate it with whatever you want?

Shefwedfan

dmakc wrote: »

Jesus the fact that families need 2+ cars shouldn't even break the top 100 issues this new government is facing. It's a tough juggling act already to rear a family with two jobs. But believe it or not countryside living is actually desirable to many - not some government planning accident. This ain't a dictatorship, the government is for 26 counties, not just Dublin, which for all it's planning is still a nightmare to navigate, a life I wish never to return to (working from home is a more realistic solution to car USAGE, but never heard this in the greens prospectus).

The virtue signallers must be doing alright if they're crying about car ownership elsewhere, indeed the looming economy fallout may present them with a rare real problem to consider.

People like to build stupid f**king monster houses and stick it in the middle of nowhere because they buy "cheap land" then cry about not having XYZ on their door step. Planning has failed.



People are building houses that are far too big, then they have no idea how to insulate or heat them. Just this weekend I was down at mates. A house which is less than 20 years old up for sale. Big f**k off thing in the arsehole of no where. Lad came from Dublin to build it, more or less now wants to move back to Dublin. I said it would probably sell easy, response....no, not a sitch of insulation in it and you would be burning oil all year long trying to heat it.....thats the country living we hear so much about

Idbatterim

The motor tax thi g is a joke. Most cars now as good as free to tax. New diesel in particular, should be minimum 500 a year, petrols e400. In the Netherlands they tax substantially more for diesel , to make sure they are being used for their intended purchase, high mileage!

They should get rid of the year of registration off new cars too, once that is gone and they cant save a few cent a day on motor ax by blowing thousands, LOL! Youd see a drop in sales , sure all the money just goes to germany, Japan etc...

Thelonious Monk

dmakc wrote: »

People make their living off said farmland. Your ideology involves ruining human lives and employment for the sake of a few wolves. This is why the greens aren't considered rural friendly.

If you want to make an actual difference instead of virtue signalling to rural Ireland from the confines of North Dublin, why don't you buy 200 acres, fence it off and populate it with whatever you want?

If I could afford to I would. What do you mean by virtue signalling? I'm not even sure what that means.
I don't think it's too much to ask that some of our island be dedicated to rewilding, the pollution caused by so much beef and dairy is considerable, most of our waterways are polluted, and it isn't even to feed ourselves as 90% is exported, and we have to import millions of tonnes of feed because we have so many cows we can't even grow enough food for them.
Just seems like a bit of a mess to me. And doesn't even seem to be profitable for most farmers.

dmakc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

People like to build stupid f**king monster houses and stick it in the middle of nowhere because they buy "cheap land" then cry about not having XYZ on their door step. Planning has failed.



People are building houses that are far too big, then they have no idea how to insulate or heat them. Just this weekend I was down at mates. A house which is less than 20 years old up for sale. Big f**k off thing in the arsehole of no where. Lad came from Dublin to build it, more or less now wants to move back to Dublin. I said it would probably sell easy, response....no, not a sitch of insulation in it and you would be burning oil all year long trying to heat it.....thats the country living we hear so much about

If a person wants a big house, let them. No one should have to live within a wall of their neighbour.

I assume he was involved in the building process and didn't buy it built? Heating considerations should have been near top of his list unless he wanted a summer getaway. Another problem here is a Dubliner took a risk on a rural life, and found they're not enjoying it. As I said, many (majority of whom would be from rural) would bite at the chance. It'll sell for sure.

Micky 32

Shefwedfan wrote: »

People like to build stupid f**king monster houses and stick it in the middle of nowhere because they buy "cheap land" then cry about not having XYZ on their door step. Planning has failed.



People are building houses that are far too big, then they have no idea how to insulate or heat them. Just this weekend I was down at mates. A house which is less than 20 years old up for sale. Big f**k off thing in the arsehole of no where. Lad came from Dublin to build it, more or less now wants to move back to Dublin. I said it would probably sell easy, response....no, not a sitch of insulation in it and you would be burning oil all year long trying to heat it.....thats the country living we hear so much about

What a load of bollox. So it’s better to buy a 1 bedroom **** box in Dublin that costs 1m euro then?

Yes some people build castle of a house. So what? They can afford it. Your posts reeks of being clueless about rural life with some begrudgery added to the mix. It’s their money and entitled to do what they want with it.

My work involves calling to a lot of these type houses and the majority of them are not what you describe. Most are well built and i never hear complaints that they can’t heat them. Not everyone is a clueless moron like your friend that can’t make a proper decision buying a house.

dmakc

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If I could afford to I would. What do you mean by virtue signalling? I'm not even sure what that means.
I don't think it's too much to ask that some of our island be dedicated to rewilding, the pollution caused by so much beef and dairy is considerable, most of our waterways are polluted, and it isn't even to feed ourselves as 90% is exported, and we have to import millions of tonnes of feed because we have so many cows we can't even grow enough food for them.
Just seems like a bit of a mess to me. And doesn't even seem to be profitable for most farmers.

You'll find the agri/waterways connection to be a tiny blip compared to the scale of pharma/waterways, our sewage isn't in line either. But sewage is hard fix and pharma needs a scapegoat.

And what is with this narrative I see, where we're made feel shameful about exporting 90% of our agri products? Our land is tailored for this produce as well as anywhere in the world. Most importantly it's not for nothing. This is worth 13 billion, this helps budget public transport in places like Dublin. If we were to sacrifice this for howling wolves I'm no so sure we'd have it as well.

Micky 32

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If I could afford to I would. What do you mean by virtue signalling? I'm not even sure what that means.
I don't think it's too much to ask that some of our island be dedicated to rewilding, the pollution caused by so much beef and dairy is considerable, most of our waterways are polluted, and it isn't even to feed ourselves as 90% is exported, and we have to import millions of tonnes of feed because we have so many cows we can't even grow enough food for them.
Just seems like a bit of a mess to me. And doesn't even seem to be profitable for most farmers.

Maybe you should worry about the polution of the **** in your local liffey before worrying about other waterways. Last time i was up in so called Dublin the smell was nauseating. Remember that before you flush the toilet next time.

Mad_maxx

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If I could afford to I would. What do you mean by virtue signalling? I'm not even sure what that means.
I don't think it's too much to ask that some of our island be dedicated to rewilding, the pollution caused by so much beef and dairy is considerable, most of our waterways are polluted, and it isn't even to feed ourselves as 90% is exported, and we have to import millions of tonnes of feed because we have so many cows we can't even grow enough food for them.
Just seems like a bit of a mess to me. And doesn't even seem to be profitable for most farmers.

no sector of agriculture bar dairying is profitable most years and beef farming is a perennial loss making enterprise