Green Party wish list.

Bass Reeves

Shefwedfan wrote: »

People like to build stupid f**king monster houses and stick it in the middle of nowhere because they buy "cheap land" then cry about not having XYZ on their door step. Planning has failed.



People are building houses that are far too big, then they have no idea how to insulate or heat them. Just this weekend I was down at mates. A house which is less than 20 years old up for sale. Big f**k off thing in the arsehole of no where. Lad came from Dublin to build it, more or less now wants to move back to Dublin. I said it would probably sell easy, response....no, not a sitch of insulation in it and you would be burning oil all year long trying to heat it.....thats the country living we hear so much about

Not all houses in the country are monster houses. The reason why it looks like people are building massive houses in the country as believe it or not it is only the well off to a huge extent now that can afford the process.

I build a house 30 years ago it is only since the last insulation ruled changed that the way it was insulated was exceeded by regulation. Insulation regulations were funded down by FF in the early noughties as we're the social/affordable housing rules. Yes this was a big mistake.

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm from the northside of Dublin and myself and family and friends voted for the Greens. Some of them, shock horror, may even be considered working class! I can think of one mate who's a sparks and my brother who drives a taxi currently, both voted for the Greens.

Why would a taxi driver vote for the greens ? Was that genuinely his first pick of all of them, or a soft third as he’s dosenfranchised with ff/fg and didnt want to swallow the hard sf pill ?

almostover

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The Wolves was somethign in 50 years was it not?

What was his headless thinking on agri? according to the manifesto he said farmers should be moving towards organic if possible. Which is 100% correct as a huge section of market is moving that direction. It was also posted on here that hundred of farmers went for grants to move to organic and got rejected. So is he not just saying to help the farmers that already want to move?



The car tax reform was not a disaster. Seriously. The reaction of the Irish people was a disaster. The whole point of the scheme was to reduce the output from cars. It was not for everyone to scrap good cars and buy new ones to save hundred quid a year on tax


Even today, look at the motors forum and you will see people with a list of recommendations and then "cheap tax". It is f**king idiotic what went on, 2007 cars traded in for 2008 at the cost of thousands because they could save 200 euro a year on tax? the business case didnt pay for for 4-5 years.....


Clowns going around, oh I bougth XYZ, only 300 tax :rolleyes:

4-5 year pay off my *ss! I know people who spent €30k on a new car at the time to save €300 per year. That's a 100 year payback period! Surely it is better for the environment to keep older cars in the road given the huge carbon footprint involved in the manufacture of a car. think of all the carbon that goes into the metal and plastic materials used to make a car, never mind the carbon tied up in its manufacture.

Thelonious Monk

dmakc wrote: »

You'll find the agri/waterways connection to be a tiny blip compared to the scale of pharma/waterways, our sewage isn't in line either. But sewage is hard fix and pharma needs a scapegoat.

Yes look it up, agriculture is the main polluter when it comes to our waterways, followed by human activity, septic tanks, sewage etc. But sure yeah blame someone else.

dmakc

Mad_maxx wrote: »

no sector of agriculture bar dairying is profitable most years and beef farming is a perennial loss making enterprise

I'm convinced you're trolling at this stage. You've shown your lack of knowledge on the topic and still spout drivel.

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why would a taxi driver vote for the greens ? Was that genuinely his first pick of all of them, or a soft third as he’s dosenfranchised with ff/fg and didnt want to swallow the hard sf pill ?

Some people just think the way we are treating Ireland and the planet is no. 1 priority, as it should be

Micky 32

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Why would a taxi driver vote for the greens ?

That’s what i thought. He just voted for a increase in his running costs , his main expense lol

frw5

Seems to me this party will be the black plague for our society.
https://www.history.com/topics/middle-ages/black-death#:~:text=The%20Black%20Death%20was%20a,the%20Sicilian%20port%20of%20Messina.

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

People like to build stupid f**king monster houses and stick it in the middle of nowhere because they buy "cheap land" then cry about not having XYZ on their door step. Planning has failed.



People are building houses that are far too big, then they have no idea how to insulate or heat them. Just this weekend I was down at mates. A house which is less than 20 years old up for sale. Big f**k off thing in the arsehole of no where. Lad came from Dublin to build it, more or less now wants to move back to Dublin. I said it would probably sell easy, response....no, not a sitch of insulation in it and you would be burning oil all year long trying to heat it.....thats the country living we hear so much about

Ive had this out with you atleast 20 times, people who live in rural one offs are not demanding services on their doorstep, not once have I heard of anyone demanding busses, footpaths, street lighting, shops etc... to their doorstep. Broadband is probably the only one service people living in one offs ask for, and I dont think thats a big ask.

Most of these houses are built to a standard higher than your yellow pack estate houses, any modern ones will have to comply to energy saving standards to heat.

The people who work in dublin would lilely have gladly bought the land if it was also <50k an acre and the density requirements etc.. werent there, but sadly land goes for mad money in dublin,

These people had two choices : waste their money on a 3 bed semi in some awful estate in dublin and hate every second of their time there or build the house of their dreams on a half acre / acre and just hate their commute.

frw5

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Some people just think the way we are treating Ireland and the planet is no. 1 priority, as it should be

7% co2 change they are rooting for is 0.009% of co2 change on a global level per year. What are you talking about? Do you have an apple at home, try pealing of 0.009% of it. Chinese fart that off per hour.

dmakc

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes look it up, agriculture is the main polluter when it comes to our waterways, followed by human activity, septic tanks, sewage etc. But sure yeah blame someone else.

So a drastic minority of negligent farmers spreading slurry too close to a river boundary is worse than the volume in the pharma pipes flowing into Cork's Lee? Really? Take a bus down and have a look, good man.

Also are we still happy to sacrifice 13 billion for transport structures diverted to rewilding?

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Some people just think the way we are treating Ireland and the planet is no. 1 priority, as it should be

what car does he drive as a taxi ?

Mad_maxx

dmakc wrote: »

I'm convinced you're trolling at this stage. You've shown your lack of knowledge on the topic and still spout drivel.

facts dont care about your feelings

i repeat , most years , only dairy farming is profitable and beef farming is never profitable for the vast majority

grain and potatoe growers are very large scale but at the mercy of global markets , they make money about one in three years , these farmers tend to have very large subsidy packages , they need them too , tillage is less enviromentally damaging than beef , more tillage could replace the good land used for beef cattle , the poor land currently used for beef could be planted in trees but as i said earlier , increase the annual subsidy for trees from the current fifteen years to the growing life of the trees

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

what car does he drive as a taxi ?

A Prius, lol. But he doesn't own it, some Chinese dude in Dublin hires them out to drivers.

suicide_circus

frw5 wrote: »

7% co2 change they are rooting for is 0.009% of co2 change on a global level per year. What are you talking about? Do you have an apple at home, try pealing of 0.009% of it. Chinese fart that off per hour.

yeah but think how good it'll feel

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

A Prius, lol. But he doesn't own it, some Chinese dude in Dublin hires them out to drivers.

ahh one of the 'ozone cars' ones, yeah I know the company. He's certainly looking after his wallet with those cheap to run taxi's anyway.

That said, a lot of environmental concern, not a lot of concern for Chinese children in rare earth metal mines, or buying LPG backing up Russian giant Gazprom.

Thelonious Monk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

ahh one of the 'ozone cars' ones, yeah I know the company. He's certainly looking after his wallet with those cheap to run taxi's anyway.

That said, a lot of environmental concern, not a lot of concern for Chinese children in rare earth metal mines, or buying LPG backing up Russian giant Gazprom.

Well you can't really partake in current society without having a negative impact on the environment, unfortunately

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well you can't really partake in current society without having a negative impact on the environment, unfortunately

true, but its the only way an electric or hybrid car doesn't cost half a million quid. your choice is better air quality in the western world or save children in the Far East, you don't get both.

dmakc

Mad_maxx wrote: »

facts dont care about your feelings

i repeat , most years , only dairy farming is profitable and beef farming is never profitable for the vast majority

grain and potatoe growers are very large scale but at the mercy of global markets , they make money about one in three years , these farmers tend to have very large subsidy packages , they need them too , tillage is less enviromentally damaging than beef , more tillage could replace the good land used for beef cattle , the poor land currently used for beef could be planted in trees but as i said earlier , increase the annual subsidy for trees from to the growing life of the trees

Why do you think they have these subsidy? Dry beef men in with their own accounts and off farm income as is the case for many, is not the loss making enterprise on the scale you claim it is.

Do you know the net income for tillage when you don't have your own horsepower/equipment/combine and why someone should completely change their lifestyle from beef to achieve such? I assume you're aware of the forestry payments farce of 2019/20? You think they're in a position to offer more? What happens after the 15 years and who currently pays to plant them?

ianobrien

I'm listening to the discussion on Radio 1 about the deal and I'm shocked. It looks like FF & FG have just agreed with anything the Greens wanted. Some of the ideas are simply daft and unworkable.

* Right to housing referendum. That's grand, I'll stop the mortgage now. Sure I'll get a free house. I'll take one in Dundrum please. People don't realise that having a right to something doesn't make it free!
* Greenways Everywhere! Just take a look at South Kerry and the problems there with building a Greenway. I can see bits being built around the country but can't be connected due to legal challenges taken by land owners.
* Public transport EVERYWHERE! Can you imagine getting milk out of West Cork on the back of the bus in milk churns? Will there be a bus outside my door going direct to wherever I want to go (I live about 20 minutes outside Cork City)
* Right to water referendum. If passed, that means that everyone is entitled to have water supplied by mains water. Can you imagine the costs of supplying mains water to every house that currently has a well? It'll be worse than the broadband price!
* Stopping the LNG storage in the Shannon and offshore exploration. Now, given the lack of preparedness we had for pandemics, wouldn't it be sensible to have an independent energy supply?

How come I can't see anything that people can see the benefit of, such as
* Low pollution zones in cities/towns by stopping older more polluting cities (hurt Green voters maybe?)
* Plastic bottles and cans deposit charge, similar to that in Germany
* All new building and renovations have to have solar panels fitted (water for domestic, electric for commercial)?
* Investment in Park and Ride, to get the cars out of the city centre

I can see this loosing a load of votes for both FF & FG as their voters (especially in the rural areas) can't see this working. We are going to be broke after the Covid-19, we won't have the money for any of this!
I'll stop now before I get in trouble!

Beechwoodspark

Rep from Friends Of The Earth on RTÉ just now - overall sounds v positive about the deal

Micky 32

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yes look it up, agriculture is the main polluter when it comes to our waterways, followed by human activity, septic tanks, sewage etc. But sure yeah blame someone else.

And yet you fail to address the worse waterways around Dublin. Your posts as usual are to suit yourself and your own inconveniences.

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ive had this out with you atleast 20 times, people who live in rural one offs are not demanding services on their doorstep, not once have I heard of anyone demanding busses, footpaths, street lighting, shops etc... to their doorstep. Broadband is probably the only one service people living in one offs ask for, and I dont think thats a big ask.

Most of these houses are built to a standard higher than your yellow pack estate houses, any modern ones will have to comply to energy saving standards to heat.

The people who work in dublin would lilely have gladly bought the land if it was also <50k an acre and the density requirements etc.. werent there, but sadly land goes for mad money in dublin,

These people had two choices : waste their money on a 3 bed semi in some awful estate in dublin and hate every second of their time there or build the house of their dreams on a half acre / acre and just hate their commute.

Your yellow pack estate house at the moment if new build is in the majority is A rated as a standard.



They don't have to live in an estate in Dublin. Loads of options around Ireland. Towns/Villages/estates in countryside. etc etc


Yes they do complain about services not on doorstep. Look at the school bus forums with people crying and complaing because little Jonnie is not been picked up at the door. Or look at the complaining about cost of fuel in cars. If you build in the middle of nowhere you should at least have the cop on to know you need to pay for car fuel.



Plus the "I cant send Jonnie out on a bike because I live in XYZ, thats why he is so overweight".....these are all common complaints form one off housing

Eric Cartman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Your yellow pack estate house at the moment if new build is in the majority is A rated as a standard.



They don't have to live in an estate in Dublin. Loads of options around Ireland. Towns/Villages/estates in countryside. etc etc


Yes they do complain about services not on doorstep. Look at the school bus forums with people crying and complaing because little Jonnie is not been picked up at the door. Or look at the complaining about cost of fuel in cars. If you build in the middle of nowhere you should at least have the cop on to know you need to pay for car fuel.



Plus the "I cant send Jonnie out on a bike because I live in XYZ, thats why he is so overweight".....these are all common complaints form one off housing

Of all the people I know living in one offs I have never heard any of that, some would complain down the pub about having to bring little billy to football and little Rosie to dancing on the same day etc.. but not once has the school bus thing come up.

most one offs are within <3km of a town or village , people are happy for teens to cycle to school / see their friends, theres a short timeframe when their kids are 4-14 say where these might be an issue but thats one decade of slight hardship for every other happy moment.

Thelonious Monk

Micky 32 wrote: »

And yet you fail to address the worse waterways around Dublin. Your posts as usual are to suit yourself and your own inconveniences.

Yeah Irish water is a mess, we're using Victorian systems for our water treatment and sewage. Not denying that. I would be pro water charges if it meant we had more reservoirs and a proper system in place. The amount of rain we get here and after a dry period we're told there's a drought, because we can't store water properly. There are houses in Howth dumping raw sewage straight into the sea at the moment, ffs.

Mad_maxx

dmakc wrote: »

Why do you think they have these subsidy packages? And might these count towards the net income figure? Dry beef men in control of their own accounts, with off farm income as is the case for many, is not the loss making enterprise on the scale you claim it is.

Do you know the net income for tillage when you don't have your own horsepower/equipment/combine and why someone should completely change their lifestyle from beef to achieve such? I assume you're aware of the forestry payments farce of 2019/20? You think they're in a position to offer more? What happens after the 15 years and who currently pays to plant them?

we ( the tax payer ) currently pay beef farmers subsidies to rear cattle we dont need for the most part , im saying we instead pay farmers to grow trees but for longer than the current fifteen years

this goes a long way to offsetting our carbon footprint which is mainly caused by cattle

its about the only silver bullet solution we have , if the government doesnt radically reform the agriculture sector , everyone else has to pay a whole lot more

Bass Reeves

Mad_maxx wrote: »

facts dont care about your feelings

i repeat , most years , only dairy farming is profitable and beef farming is never profitable for the vast majority

grain and potatoe growers are very large scale but at the mercy of global markets , they make money about one in three years , these farmers tend to have very large subsidy packages , they need them too , tillage is less enviromentally damaging than beef , more tillage could replace the good land used for beef cattle , the poor land currently used for beef could be planted in trees but as i said earlier , increase the annual subsidy for trees from the current fifteen years to the growing life of the trees

Rubbish

Micky 32

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Rep from Friends Of The Earth on RTÉ just now - overall sounds v positive about the deal

Hippies on RTE, doesn’t surprise me.

jimmycrackcorm

ianobrien wrote: »

I can see this loosing a load of votes for both FF & FG as their voters (especially in the rural areas) can't see this working. We are going to be broke after the Covid-19, we won't have the money for any of this!
I'll stop now before I get in trouble!

It's the greens that will lose the votes once people see how much their policies will affect them in their pocket and otherwise.

People will start asking why we're taking one for the team while China is spewing pollution massively. The other parties will simply point out that this is what voting green does.

I'll be very interested also in what the right to housing referendum entails. It seems to be a ridiculous idea as print it into the constitution seems to imply that everyone can stop paying their mortgage and keep their homes.

Beechwoodspark

Micky 32 wrote: »

Hippies on RTE, doesn’t surprise me.

Is that all you can add to this debate?