Green Party wish list.

efanton

Tell me how wrote: »

What is the fascination with how wealthy I am all of a sudden? I am not but if I was, would that mean I wasn't entitled to an opinion?

It's been posted before just how much people pay for the privilege of having a car (new or second hand) which is parked up 92% of the time (on average), people should be crying out for ways in which they can avoid that. And again, I know that many people absolutely will continue to need them.

The reality is action is needed, feel free to make suggestions or demand that FG/FF offer preferred solutions.

Stop with this bull**** of asking everyone else to make sensible policies for the Greens.

Action might be needed, who is arguing with that?

Do you agree that significantly increasing carbon taxes imposing that significant cost on those that cannot afford to replace their car is unfair?
What policies have the Greens put in place to mitigate that?


Where does the "which is parked up 92% of the time" statistic come from?
I assume you can provide a source or link

If you are in a rural area that has no public transport by necessity, not choice, you must have a car. Whether the car is used 8 hours a day or 8 minutes a day is immaterial.

People in rural areas might well be crying out to a alternative to their car, they are doing that already, With higher insurance, increased fuel costs, and road tax do you not think if there was an alternative they would be using it already?

So answer this. Why are the green party penalising the very people that we need to make the switch? Those that are least able to change their car are the very ones that are driving older less fuel efficient cars that have higher emissions. Why have the Green imposed a carbon tax that will make it even more difficult for these people to get rid of their old cars. If they are paying carbon taxes then they have less money to save to to replace their vehicle.

Do you think the Green party are totally incapable of coming up with a policy that would instead of penalising people actually help people to switch ot an EV?
Was that an intellectual step too far?

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

I thought people who were driving diesels couldn't afford more expensive cars.

Which is it?

its 2030, you can't buy a new diesel car, only electric cars for sale, government subsidies have ended , the cheapest new electric car is 35k , the cheapest one that actually has space for 4 adults is 45k , theres now a 200 euro motor tax on electric cars and a 400 quid tax on hybrids. The cheapest used electric with a still functional battery is 7k

Toyota are still selling a 2.8 litre diesel hilux for 28k
landrover are still selling a new diesel SUV for 40k
you can still import a 5 year old Range Rover diesel for 35k
you can get a 15 year old BMW X5 for 6k landed from the uk.

all of the above have 333 euro tax. They have over 900km range, take 5 mins to fill and rural Ireland is still covered in stations selling diesel.

ELM327

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its 2030, you can't buy a new diesel car, only electric cars for sale, government subsidies have ended , the cheapest new electric car is 35k , the cheapest one that actually has space for 4 adults is 45k , theres now a 200 euro motor tax on electric cars and a 400 quid tax on hybrids. The cheapest used electric with a still functional battery is 7k

Toyota are still selling a 2.8 litre diesel hilux for 28k
landrover are still selling a new diesel SUV for 40k
you can still import a 5 year old Range Rover diesel for 35k
you can get a 15 year old BMW X5 for 6k landed from the uk.

all of the above have 333 euro tax. They have over 900km range, take 5 mins to fill and rural Ireland is still covered in stations selling diesel.

You could even import a ford F150 or Ram 1500 with a diesel engine, get 30mpg, and still get it cheaper than an EV.


I have a Tesla model S but a) I got a good deal on it, b) i couldnt give two hoots about ecomentalism and c) it's not cheaper to run than a diesel.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote:

I have a Tesla model S but a) I got a good deal on it, b) i couldnt give two hoots about ecomentalism and c) it's not cheaper to run than a diesel.

What are they like, they look lovely?

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What are they like, they look lovely?

Fast off the line, bargy, lacking the premium feel of even my old 5 series bimmer.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote:

Fast off the line, bargy, lacking the premium feel of even my old 5 series bimmer.

Guy Martin was checking out one, unsure which model, rocket of a yoke

efanton

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its 2030, you can't buy a new diesel car, only electric cars for sale, government subsidies have ended , the cheapest new electric car is 35k , the cheapest one that actually has space for 4 adults is 45k , theres now a 200 euro motor tax on electric cars and a 400 quid tax on hybrids. The cheapest used electric with a still functional battery is 7k

Toyota are still selling a 2.8 litre diesel hilux for 28k
landrover are still selling a new diesel SUV for 40k
you can still import a 5 year old Range Rover diesel for 35k
you can get a 15 year old BMW X5 for 6k landed from the uk.

all of the above have 333 euro tax. They have over 900km range, take 5 mins to fill and rural Ireland is still covered in stations selling diesel.

Exactly.

What the Green's dont get is the ordinary person does not have a magic wallet.
They will buy what they can afford, they will not buy what they cannot afford.

Instead of policies that would make EV's cheaper than all other alternatives instead they trap people into keeping their old cars for longer.

Seriously, a school kid could see this in advance. The Greens despite they demands that everything gets done quickly actually delay the point where petrol and diesel cars are eradicated from our roads.
It begs the question do they even think through their ideas before turning them into policies, do they actually analyse the expected outcomes of their policies, and do they actually care at all or is it just a 'we can be seen to be doing something, and that is enough' attitude they have and to hell with the consequences?

Sierra Oscar

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i suspect ffg will share it

They will, that has been confirmed.

Eamon Ryan will not be Taoiseach. Martin first, then Leo sees out the remainder of the term.

Tell me how

efanton wrote: »

Stop with this bull**** of asking everyone else to make sensible policies for the Greens.

Action might be needed, who is arguing with that?

Do you agree that significantly increasing carbon taxes imposing that significant cost on those that cannot afford to replace their car is unfair?
What policies have the Greens put in place to mitigate that?


Where does the "which is parked up 92% of the time" statistic come from?
I assume you can provide a source or link

If you are in a rural area that has no public transport by necessity, not choice, you must have a car. Whether the car is used 8 hours a day or 8 minutes a day is immaterial.

People in rural areas might well be crying out to a alternative to their car, they are doing that already, With higher insurance, increased fuel costs, and road tax do you not think if there was an alternative they would be using it already?

So answer this. Why are the green party penalising the very people that we need to make the switch? Those that are least able to change their car are the very ones that are driving older less fuel efficient cars that have higher emissions. Why have the Green imposed a carbon tax that will make it even more difficult for these people to get rid of their old cars. If they are paying carbon taxes then they have less money to save to to replace their vehicle.

Do you think the Green party are totally incapable of coming up with a policy that would instead of penalising people actually help people to switch ot an EV?
Was that an intellectual step too far?

Average time a car is parked.

Did you know that average car spends about 95% of its time parked? In some big cities, it drops to about 92% due to increased traffic and extended commuting time. And maybe it also takes longer to find a parking place Even if you count only the daytime, by subtracting the 8 hours of sleep from the total car’s lifetime, its average parking time still equals to about 93%.

I posted a link already about Eamonn Ryan wanting to target air travel for a carbon tax but seemingly that idea got pushed to the side.

Is that because others in the Greens told him to back off or is it because FF/FG have refused to entertain such an idea.

I can already see that everything that this government does in relation to the environment going to be said to be the fault of the Greens and that is just giving FF/FG a complete pass in abdicating their responsibilities.

As to people using alternative methods, when you were a kid, how many students were driving to school, what age do you think people got their first car? How many people shared rides or hitched compared to people taking that option now.
I've worked with colleagues where 2 or more people from the same house worked in the same place and yet they bring separate cars. Does that sound like it is absolutely necessary?

And again, even though people don't like it, but just complaining without recognizing the need for change or suggesting alternative methods and expecting them from FF/FG also is just hurling from the ditch.

gifted

efanton wrote: »

Exactly.

What the Green's dont get is the ordinary person does not have a magic wallet.
They will buy what they can afford, they will not buy what they cannot afford.

Instead of policies that would make EV's cheaper than all other alternatives instead they trap people into keeping their old cars for longer.

Seriously, a school kid could see this in advance. The Greens despite they demands that everything gets done quickly actually delay the point where petrol and diesel cars are eradicated from our roads.
It begs the question do they even think through their ideas before turning them into policies, do they actually analyse the expected outcomes of their policies, and do they actually care at all or is it just a 'we can be seen to be doing something, and that is enough' attitude they have and to hell with the consequences?

I'd love to get an electric car....I drive approx 100 t0 140km a week in my car....it makes sense for me to get one....but I can't afford it....if I start saving now and cancel any holidays for the family I might have enough money in 2030 to buy one...

Eric Cartman

efanton wrote: »

Exactly.

What the Green's dont get is the ordinary person does not have a magic wallet.
They will buy what they can afford, they will not buy what they cannot afford.

Instead of policies that would make EV's cheaper than all other alternatives instead they trap people into keeping their old cars for longer.

Seriously, a school kid could see this in advance. The Greens despite they demands that everything gets done quickly actually delay the point where petrol and diesel cars are eradicated from our roads.
It begs the question do they even think through their ideas before turning them into policies, do they actually analyse the expected outcomes of their policies, and do they actually care at all or is it just a 'we can be seen to be doing something, and that is enough' attitude they have and to hell with the consequences?

Their policies also just make car ownership more of a status symbol, heightening it again to a sign of wealth, especially a car with an actual engine in it.

combat14

new government majority down to 3 already ?
looks like a very stable government on the cards:



Fianna Fáil's Éamon Ó Cuív has said that anyone who cares about the Irish Language, the Gaeltacht and the Islands should vote against the draft programme for government.

The Galway West TD told Tuairisc.ie that the measures in the document for the Irish Language are meaningless and look like a reheated dinner.

The former deputy leader of Fianna Fáil is the first high profile figure within the three parties to voice opposition to the draft programme announced this morning.

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Guy Martin was checking out one, unsure which model, rocket of a yoke

Yeah, that's their party trick.
I don't think I'll be getting another one.

If they are going to start banning diesels I'll need to buy a few while I still can!

efanton

Tell me how wrote: »

Average time a car is parked.



I posted a link already about Eamonn Ryan wanting to target air travel for a carbon tax but seemingly that idea got pushed to the side.

Is that because others in the Greens told him to back off or is it because FF/FG have refused to entertain such an idea.

I can already see that everything that this government does in relation to the environment going to be said to be the fault of the Greens and that is just giving FF/FG a complete pass in abdicating their responsibilities.

As to people using alternative methods, when you were a kid, how many students were driving to school, what age do you think people got their first car? How many people shared rides or hitched compared to people taking that option now.
I've worked with colleagues where 2 or more people from the same house worked in the same place and yet they bring separate cars. Does that sound like it is absolutely necessary?

And again, even though people don't like it, but just complaining without recognizing the need for change or suggesting alternative methods and expecting them from FF/FG also is just hurling from the ditch.

That 95% is not relevant at all for cars in rural areas. I can be quite certain of that.


Most people sleep for 8 hours a day. I assume you would agree that driving while sleeping is not likely.
that leaves 16 hours or 960 minutes.

subtract 92% from those 960 minutes and you get 76.8 minute or 1 hour 17 minutes per day.
So you are claiming that most rural car owners use their car for less than an hour and quarter each day. Good luck with that, its not even realistic for most.

I think you will find that most people who live in rural areas and who work will be doing that and more each day in a car. When you count up journey time to and from work, schools, shopping and visiting family or friends, recreation time at the weekend visiting someplace out of town.
I can see that stat working if people are using both their car and public transport, or in a city environment, but its totally unrealistic in a rural setting.

Besides that, how often or how much a car is used is immaterial in a rural setting. If people have no access to public transport a car is not a choice it is a necessity.


I notice you refused to answer these questions if you want me to even begin to take you seriously I expect you to have a stab at answering them.

Do you agree that significantly increasing carbon taxes imposing that significant cost on those that cannot afford to replace their car is unfair?
What policies have the Greens put in place to mitigate that?

So answer this. Why are the green party penalising the very people that we need to make the switch? Those that are least able to change their car are the very ones that are driving older less fuel efficient cars that have higher emissions. Why have the Green imposed a carbon tax that will make it even more difficult for these people to get rid of their old cars. If they are paying carbon taxes then they have less money to save to to replace their vehicle.

Do you think the Green party are totally incapable of coming up with a policy that would instead of penalising people actually help people to switch ot an EV?
Was that an intellectual step too far?

Leonard Hofstadter

combat14 wrote: »

new government majority down to 3 already ?
looks like a very stable government on the cards:



Fianna Fáil's Éamon Ó Cuív has said that anyone who cares about the Irish Language, the Gaeltacht and the Islands should vote against the draft programme for government.

The Galway West TD told Tuairisc.ie that the measures in the document for the Irish Language are meaningless and look like a reheated dinner.

The former deputy leader of Fianna Fáil is the first high profile figure within the three parties to voice opposition to the draft programme announced this morning.

I doubt he'd actually leave the party. Would love if he did so we could get rid of this appalling Government before it starts and we have another election.

I'd imagine McGuinness will say no as well, but again I'd be surprised if he actually quit FF. That would bring it down to a majority of five from the majority of 9 as it is right now!

Maybe this time the people will vote for grown ups and we won't have the Greens inflicting misery on everyone!

Snow Garden

combat14 wrote: »

new government majority down to 3 already ?
looks like a very stable government on the cards:



Fianna Fáil's Éamon Ó Cuív has said that anyone who cares about the Irish Language, the Gaeltacht and the Islands should vote against the draft programme for government.

The Galway West TD told Tuairisc.ie that the measures in the document for the Irish Language are meaningless and look like a reheated dinner.

The former deputy leader of Fianna Fáil is the first high profile figure within the three parties to voice opposition to the draft programme announced this morning.

As a Galway west voter I have to say O'Cuiv is a clown. Just looking for the Gaeilge vote and grants.

Shefwedfan

I love all these people calling for another election?

What difference is it going to make? what do you think will happen apart from waste millions on it?

ELM327

There will not be an election now for years.
I think this government will last at least 3

gifted

combat14 wrote: »

new government majority down to 3 already ?
looks like a very stable government on the cards:



Fianna Fáil's Éamon Ó Cuív has said that anyone who cares about the Irish Language, the Gaeltacht and the Islands should vote against the draft programme for government.

The Galway West TD told Tuairisc.ie that the measures in the document for the Irish Language are meaningless and look like a reheated dinner.

The former deputy leader of Fianna Fáil is the first high profile figure within the three parties to voice opposition to the draft programme announced this morning.

I'd take no notice of O'Cuiv....he'll do what he's told...just like he always done.

dmakc

Tell me how wrote: »

It's been posted before just how much people pay for the privilege of having a car (new or second hand) which is parked up 92% of the time (on average)

Where is the harm in a parked car? 10 cars being used 8% of the time gives the same emissions as a shared car running 80% of the time no?

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

There will not be an election now for years.
I think this government will last at least 3

Hopefully so, enough money wasted in Ireland.


Run another election, still would be hung and no further along but more millions wasted

Edgware

combat14 wrote: »

new government majority down to 3 already ?
looks like a very stable government on the cards:



Fianna Fáil's Éamon Ó Cuív has said that anyone who cares about the Irish Language, the Gaeltacht and the Islands should vote against the draft programme for government.

The Galway West TD told Tuairisc.ie that the measures in the document for the Irish Language are meaningless and look like a reheated dinner.

The former deputy leader of Fianna Fáil is the first high profile figure within the three parties to voice opposition to the draft programme announced this morning.

"High profile" There wont be too many running after him. He is so predictable.

Shefwedfan

dmakc wrote: »

Where is the harm in a parked car? 10 cars being used 8% of the time gives the same emissions as a shared car running 80% of the time no?

You do realize how much CO2 is generated in making a car?

dmakc

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do realize how much CO2 is generated in making a car?

Care to enlighten compared to the lifetime running of one?

Tell me how

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do realize how much CO2 is generated in making a car?

dmakc wrote: »

Care to enlighten compared to the lifetime running of one?

There are several examples on google.



The fewer cars there are, the better all round.

ednwireland

think big

train line from sligo to derry up the middle of the main road through donegal !

electrified of course

efanton

Tell me how wrote: »

The fewer cars there are, the better all round.

Do you no get it. Everyone, literally everyone, would agree with you on that.

But in rural Ireland there is no public transport, there is no alternative to a car.
How are the Greens going to provide that alternative? How much will that cost? how long is it going to take?

In the meantime dont you think the first target should be eradicating petrol and diesel cars from the road?

But here is where it gets stupid. the Green have committed this government to a policy that delays the eradication of petrol and diesel cars.

the smart move would have been to make EV's cheaper than all the alternatives. instead they have not only left electric vehicles costing more than petrol or diesel vehicles but they are now penalising those that have petrol/diesel cars with carbon taxes. The less money a person has to save, the longer it will take for them to switch to an EV.

Do you not see the stupidity of the Green policy?
The objective is to get rid of diesel and petrol vehicles, but your policy prolongs their use.

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

Do you no get it. Everyone, literally everyone, would agree with you on that.

But in rural Ireland there is no public transport, there is no alternative to a car.
How are the Greens going to provide that alternative? How much will that cost? how long is it going to take?

In the meantime dont you think the first target should be eradicating petrol and diesel cars from the road?

But here is where it gets stupid. the Green have committed this government to a policy that delays the eradication of petrol and diesel cars.

the smart move would have been to make EV's cheaper than all the alternatives. instead they have not only left electric vehicles costing more than petrol or diesel vehicles but they are now penalising those that have petrol/diesel cars with carbon taxes. The less money a person has to save, the longer it will take for them to switch to an EV.

Do you not see the stupidity of the Green policy?
The objective is to get rid of diesel and petrol vehicles, but your policy prolongs their use.

No it doesn’t

Limpy

Fianna Green, let's see what you can do.

_Kaiser_

The bottom line here - again - is that the vast majority of the Irish electorate don't care about Green issues when push comes to shove.

They got 7%.... 7% of those who turned up to vote, not even of the population.

Watching Ryan on the news here with his smug pontificating is annoying me already. He's desperate to sell it to rural Ireland but listening to the farmers on R1 before 6, not many are convinced.

I honestly hope FF grassroots reject it.