Green Party wish list.

mgn

blanch152 wrote: »

Your points have already been addressed comprehensively, better than I could do.

And it's not the rural dwellers thats complaining about them cost, it's the likes of carbons taxes that's the problem.

If there so concerned where is the carbon tax on aviation for instance.

ExMachina1000

Eamonn Ryan has secured himself 1 million euro per day every day for 5 years to spend on cycling and walking

ELM327

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

It's what Bus Eireann was created for.

LOL
Hang on there till I get the non existent bus to the nearest town (im in one town in meath), the non existent bus from my town to my workplace, a local pub, or anywhere else I may want to go, while I leave my car sitting idle.


Eh, no. I didnt spend many thousands on my car to sit beside some dirty scrote on the bus using the free travel pass who's probably going to give me covid.

mgn

Geuze wrote: »

I see your points, and yes, new houses do pay levies for connections to water/elec/telecom, yes.

However, I still feel we should discourage one-off rural houses.

They should also pay higher ongoing fees, to reflect the higher costs.

This does happen a bit, e.g. ESB have a higher rural standing charge, I think.

Yes there is a higher rural standing charge, and we also pay for water and our own sewage treatment.

Who is the ''WE'' that should discourage one-off houses.

efanton

Geuze wrote: »

https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/grant-amounts/

There already is a grant, up to 5k.

There already is VRT relief, see below:


Additional financial incentives
Direct CO2 emission values are used to calculate the Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) and annual Motor Tax bands for vehicles.

Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) have no tail pipe emissions of CO2
Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV) should have CO2 emissions circa 60g/km

VRT
VRT is paid whenever a car is registered for the first time in Ireland. Electric Vehicles receive VRT relief separately to SEAI grant support. VRT relief for BEVs is in place until the end of 2021 and for PHEVs until end of 2020. Find about more about VRT.

I agree they help a lot for those that can currently afford to buy a new electric car, but the majority of people cant.
Those grants still dont make a electric car capable of carrying 4 adults cheaper than say a petrol model.


My point is simple. make EV's cheaper than diesel or petrol cars and people will naturally choose EV's.
You do that tomorrow morning, and in 5 or 6 tears time when most of those cars hit the second hand market, what are the people who can only afford to buy second hand going to buy.
If you dont reduce their cost, then even in 5 or 6 years time those that have no choice but to buy second hand still will not be able to afford them.

Surely it make more sense to reduce the cost of EV's to the point where they are cheaper than petrol/diesel than spend billions on public transport schemes that still will not eradicate car use in rural areas.

Eric Cartman

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Eamonn Ryan has secured himself 1 million euro per day every day for 5 years to spend on cycling and walking

he can get a rickshaw and peddle me around to all my callouts so, since I'm not wanted in the city in my diesel SUV.

mgn

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Eamonn Ryan has secured himself 1 million euro per day every day for 5 years to spend on cycling and walking

That will keep his fluffy voters happy.

And in a few months time hundreds of people will be lying on trolleys around the Country but don't worry bicycle lanes are more important to the Greens
Great to see where their priorities lie.

efanton

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Eamonn Ryan has secured himself 1 million euro per day every day for 5 years to spend on cycling and walking

I dont begrudge that amount of money being spent to make cycling and walking safer.
But tell me this how much of that money will be spent outside the major cities. I would hazard to guess very little.

Then we will get the Greens and their ilk complaining why those in rural areas dont walk or cycle as much as they do in the cities.

ExMachina1000

Eric Cartman wrote: »

he can get a rickshaw and peddle me around to all my callouts so, since I'm not wanted in the city in my diesel SUV.

I'd say it went something along the lines of:

Here's plenty of money for you Eamonn to get your cycling plan off the ground.
That will give you something to do while myself and Michael take turns running the country.

Rows Grower

Eamonn has been done like a kipper by Mehall and Leo, he's just not able to comprehend what senior hurling is all about.

Tell me how

efanton wrote: »

I dont begrudge that amount of money being spent to make cycling and walking safer.
But tell me this how much of that money will be spent outside the major cities. I would hazard to guess very little.

Then we will get the Greens and their ilk complaining why those in rural areas dont walk or cycle as much as they do in the cities.

But, why don't you celebrate the allocation of that money and also demand that it's not just cities who see the benefit of it.

Because if you want to see the Green Party being more focused on rural Ireland, why not say well done and then visibly ask that they consider it instead of just ridiculing the group which is the only one making an effort.

Because if more people throughout the country did that, then FF,FG would start to drive the change that is needed.

Eric Cartman

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I'd say it went something along the lines of:

Here's plenty of money for you Eamonn to get your cycling plan off the ground.
That will give you something to do while myself and Michael take turns running the country.

thats basically it, its like those rich lads who give their bimbo wives foundations for sick animals just to keep their time occupied and get them out of the house.

Johnny_BravoIII

If you believe in climate change and believe we have an onus as a society to do something about it, then we need to change our cheap carbon dependant ways of living.

If you don't then hopefull the majority in society can move past your views. Climate change is coming regardless of whether you choose to believe in it or not.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

We have had little planning with regard to where people live. This has led to a mess.
I would say destroyed the Irish countryside since the early 1980's.
One-off rural housing means more energy required to operate as a society.
We need to massively reduce one-off rural housing over the next 50-100 years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/planners-warn-on-dangers-of-one-off-housing-in-countryside-1.321244

If you are living in a one-off rural house, this plan won't make life better for you.

If you are a farmer or a person with a need to be situated rurally this plan will protect the environment so that there is something left to hand-down to future generations.

The rest of us will live connected lives in urban populations and local villages.
 
Imagine an Ireland with super-fast, cheap, regular rail which connects Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo, Derry, Belfast, Dublin, Galway, Athlone.

As a society we want people tol choose to live near access to transport and other general facilities i.e. broadband, water, sewage etc.

The focus on EV is the wrong route. The technology is coming anyways and will get there on the adoption curve that all technologies follow.
The way forward is to prioritise public transport.
With the correct investment in public transport, owning a car will be optional.

In 100 years we can reverse some of the bad planning that was allowed to happen here in the last 30 years.

We will need people to change.
People hate change
But it has to be done.
Let's hope this government holds for 5 years to get things moving in the right direction.

ExMachina1000

efanton wrote: »

I dont begrudge that amount of money being spent to make cycling and walking safer.
But tell me this how much of that money will be spent outside the major cities. I would hazard to guess very little.

Then we will get the Greens and their ilk complaining why those in rural areas dont walk or cycle as much as they do in the cities.

30 billion in debt from coronavirus, half a million still not working full time or working at all.

Bicycle

Lyan

So they got their wishes then? Honestly I think I'd rather FF/FG lay back for a few years while a Sinn From coalition made a bollox of themselves leading us back to the old status qou. Now we get to see the real ramifications of corona.

Rows Grower

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

If you believe in climate change and believe we have an onus as a society to do something about it, then we need to change our cheap carbon dependant ways of living.

If you don't then hopefull the majority in society can move past your views. Climate change is coming regardless of whether you choose to believe in it or not.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

We have had little planning with regard to where people live. This has led to a mess.
I would say destroyed the Irish countryside since the early 1980's.
One-off rural housing means more energy required to operate as a society.
We need to massively reduce one-off rural housing over the next 50-100 years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/planners-warn-on-dangers-of-one-off-housing-in-countryside-1.321244

If you are living in a one-off rural house, this plan won't make life better for you. We have allowed too many people to situation in one-off rural houses.

If you are a farmer or a person with a need to be situated rurally this plan will protect the environment so that there is something left to hand-down to future generations.

The rest of us will live connected lives in urban populations and local villages.
 
Imagine an Ireland with super-fast, cheap, regular rail which connects Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo, Derry, Belfast, Dublin, Galway, Athlone.

As a society we want people tol choose to live near access to transport and other general facilities i.e. broadband, water, sewage etc.

The focus on EV is the wrong route. The technology is coming anyways and will get there on the adoption curve that all technologies follow.
The way forward is to prioritise public transport. With the correct investment in public transport, owning a car will be optional.

In 100 years we can reverse some of the bad planning that was allowed to happen here in the last 30 years.

We will need people to change.
People hate change
But it has to be done.
Let's hope this government holds for 5 years to get things moving in the right direction.

Who elected you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piJhPT6UHog

Rows Grower

Rows Grower wrote: »

Who elected you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piJhPT6UHog

He is a member of the Green Illuminati

Eric Cartman

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

We have had little planning with regard to where people live. This has led to a mess. Reversing this mess is going to be painful but it is a necessity.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

One-off rural housing means more energy required to operate as a society.
We need to eliminate one-off rural housing over the next 50-100 years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/planners-warn-on-dangers-of-one-off-housing-in-countryside-1.321244

If you are living in a one-off rural house, this plan won't make life better for you. We have allowed too many people to situation in one-off rural houses.

If you are a farmer or a person with a need to be situated rurally this plan will protect the environment so that there is something left to hand-down to future generations.

The rest of us will live connected lives in urban populations and local villages.
 
Imagine an Ireland with super-fast, cheap, regular rail which connects Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo, Derry, Belfast, Dublin, Galway, Athlone.

As a society we want people tol choose to live near access to transport and other general facilities i.e. broadband, water, sewage etc.

The focus on EV is the wrong route. The technology is coming anyways and will get there on the adoption curve that all technologies follow.
The way forward is to prioritise public transport. With the correct investment in public transport, owning a car will be optional.

In 100 years we can reverse some of the bad planning that was allowed to happen here in the last 30 years.

We will need people to change.
People hate change
But it has to be done.
Let's hope this government holds for 5 years to get things moving in the right direction.

The only solution is this type of thing then : https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-gated-community-more-land-fewer-neighbors-1503579674
gated community estates with half acre to acre plots, ultra high security border fencing and really low density.

Its the only way to give one off dwellers all of the benefits they have without the associated taxpayer cost.

ExMachina1000

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

If you believe in climate change and believe we have an onus as a society to do something about it, then we need to change our cheap carbon dependant ways of living.

If you don't then hopefull the majority in society can move past your views. Climate change is coming regardless of whether you choose to believe in it or not.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

We have had little planning with regard to where people live. This has led to a mess.
I would say destroyed the Irish countryside since the early 1980's.
One-off rural housing means more energy required to operate as a society.
We need to massively reduce one-off rural housing over the next 50-100 years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/planners-warn-on-dangers-of-one-off-housing-in-countryside-1.321244

If you are living in a one-off rural house, this plan won't make life better for you.

If you are a farmer or a person with a need to be situated rurally this plan will protect the environment so that there is something left to hand-down to future generations.

The rest of us will live connected lives in urban populations and local villages.
 
Imagine an Ireland with super-fast, cheap, regular rail which connects Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo, Derry, Belfast, Dublin, Galway, Athlone.

As a society we want people tol choose to live near access to transport and other general facilities i.e. broadband, water, sewage etc.

The focus on EV is the wrong route. The technology is coming anyways and will get there on the adoption curve that all technologies follow.
The way forward is to prioritise public transport.
With the correct investment in public transport, owning a car will be optional.

In 100 years we can reverse some of the bad planning that was allowed to happen here in the last 30 years.

We will need people to change.
People hate change
But it has to be done.
Let's hope this government holds for 5 years to get things moving in the right direction.

What are your thoughts on data centres?

mgn

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

If you believe in climate change and believe we have an onus as a society to do something about it, then we need to change our cheap carbon dependant ways of living.

If you don't then hopefull the majority in society can move past your views. Climate change is coming regardless of whether you choose to believe in it or not.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

We have had little planning with regard to where people live. This has led to a mess.
I would say destroyed the Irish countryside since the early 1980's.
One-off rural housing means more energy required to operate as a society.
We need to massively reduce one-off rural housing over the next 50-100 years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/planners-warn-on-dangers-of-one-off-housing-in-countryside-1.321244

If you are living in a one-off rural house, this plan won't make life better for you.

If you are a farmer or a person with a need to be situated rurally this plan will protect the environment so that there is something left to hand-down to future generations.

The rest of us will live connected lives in urban populations and local villages.
 
Imagine an Ireland with super-fast, cheap, regular rail which connects Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo, Derry, Belfast, Dublin, Galway, Athlone.

As a society we want people tol choose to live near access to transport and other general facilities i.e. broadband, water, sewage etc.

The focus on EV is the wrong route. The technology is coming anyways and will get there on the adoption curve that all technologies follow.
The way forward is to prioritise public transport.
With the correct investment in public transport, owning a car will be optional.

In 100 years we can reverse some of the bad planning that was allowed to happen here in the last 30 years.

We will need people to change.
People hate change
But it has to be done.
Let's hope this government holds for 5 years to get things moving in the right direction.

Evening Mr Ryan

mgn

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

What are your thoughts on data centres?

Or aviation fuel.

statesaver

So, we're going to have a Shiit Fein lead Government in 3 - 5 years. Christ.

A party that spent 30 years trying to bomb 1 millions Brits into a United Ireland and are also an open borders party.

God Save Ireland.

Feisar

I thought we were trying to get away from pump politics, we swapped the water pump for the bicycle pump.

efanton

mgn wrote: »

Or aviation fuel.

Aviation is actually very fuel efficient.

There is never going to be anything like a carbon neutral solution for air transport.

Also you must take into consideration that air transport is not only quicker than land but also is in many situations actually much better than truck, rail or ship.
When you are flying on your holiday, you might not realise it but it is likely that that plane is also carrying cargo as well.
Airlines will maximise their return on fuel usage.

Let me put it another way. A 747 uses 5 gallons of fuel per mile.
That sounds horrendous doesn't it.
But consider that that 747 typically carries 500 passengers as well as cargo at the same time.

A 747 is transporting 500 people 1 mile using 5 gallons of fuel. That means the plane is burning 0.01 gallons per person per mile. In other words, the plane is getting 100 miles per gallon per person! And that doesn't even account for any additional cargo carried.

Do they sound horrendously fuel inefficient now?

You tell me any other form of transport that can get that sort of fuel economy per person carried?
Not even trains currently match that.

Rows Grower

mgn wrote: »

Or aviation fuel.

I reckon demand for aviation fuel is going to drop by about 80% until a vaccination for Covid 19 is found.

ExMachina1000

efanton wrote: »

Aviation is actually very fuel efficient.

There is never going to be anything like a carbon neutral solution for air transport.

Also you must take into consideration that air transport is not only quicker than land but also is in many situations actually much better than truck, rail or ship.
When you are flying on your holiday, you might not realise it but it is likely that that plane is also carrying cargo as well.
Airlines will maximise their return on fuel usage.

Let me put it another way. A 747 uses 5 gallons of fuel per mile.
That sounds horrendous doesn't it.
But consider that that 747 typically carries 500 passengers as well as cargo at the same time.

A 747 is transporting 500 people 1 mile using 5 gallons of fuel. That means the plane is burning 0.01 gallons per person per mile. In other words, the plane is getting 100 miles per gallon per person! And that doesn't even account for any additional cargo carried.

Do they sound horrendously fuel inefficient now?

You tell me any other form of transport that can get that sort of fuel economy per person carried?
Not even trains currently match that.

It would be more effective if there were less half full flights and less flights overall. Use bigger planes and fly less often. Instead of daily go three times weekly. Flights will always be full.

Thats less than half the number of flights but still regular

combat14

New Green Govt not a done deal yet:


50 Fianna Fáil councillors launch campaign to stop new government deal
'After nine years of Fine Gael rule Ireland needs real change'

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/50-fianna-fail-councillors-launch-campaign-to-stop-new-government-deal-39287987.html

mgn

efanton wrote: »

Aviation is actually very fuel efficient.

There is never going to be anything like a carbon neutral solution for air transport.

Also you must take into consideration that air transport is not only quicker than land but also is in many situations actually much better than truck, rail or ship.
When you are flying on your holiday, you might not realise it but it is likely that that plane is also carrying cargo as well.
Airlines will maximise their return on fuel usage.

Let me put it another way. A 747 uses 5 gallons of fuel per mile.
That sounds horrendous doesn't it.
But consider that that 747 typically carries 500 passengers as well as cargo at the same time.

A 747 is transporting 500 people 1 mile using 5 gallons of fuel. That means the plane is burning 0.01 gallons per person per mile. In other words, the plane is getting 100 miles per gallon per person! And that doesn't even account for any additional cargo carried.

Do they sound horrendously fuel inefficient now?

You tell me any other form of transport that can get that sort of fuel economy per person carried?
Not even trains currently match that.

A bit like my diesel car so, but the have no problem increasing taxes on that.

Rows Grower

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

It would be more effective if there were less half full flights and less flights overall. Use bigger planes and fly less often. Instead of daily go three times weekly. Planes always full. Less fuel and emissions.

Nobody wants to be trapped in a big steel tube in the sky with hundreds of other people in the current climate.

Shefwedfan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

he can get a rickshaw and peddle me around to all my callouts so, since I'm not wanted in the city in my diesel SUV.

Great, you can pay the tax for the rest of us, thanks