Green Party wish list.

Bass Reeves

Shefwedfan wrote: »

House was build in 1970...maybe it was D3 I can't honestly remember now, I thought it was D3. Then again when I bought I dont think you had those ratings required. When I sold it I think I was up to a C1 or maybe a B3

My point is, small/low cost changes to a house can reduce heating costs. Yes a full revamp is the best but as post not everyone can afford. To install TRV and insulation in attic I think would have cost me 2-300 quid. In the first year alone I saved at least 200 quid on oil. So pay off was in 2 years

It was unlikly it was a D3, was it a terrace, semi detached and is it 2,3, 4 bedroom

Shefwedfan

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It was unlikly it was a D3, was it a terrace, semi detached and is it 2,3, 4 bedroom

Semi D 4 bedroom

gifted

Shefwedfan wrote: »

House was build in 1970...maybe it was D3 I can't honestly remember now, I thought it was D3. Then again when I bought I dont think you had those ratings required. When I sold it I think I was up to a C1 or maybe a B3

My point is, small/low cost changes to a house can reduce heating costs. Yes a full revamp is the best but as post not everyone can afford. To install TRV and insulation in attic I think would have cost me 2-300 quid. In the first year alone I saved at least 200 quid on oil. So pay off was in 2 years

Listen...I'm a plumber....to install TRV on a heating system would cost a lot more than €200....to get your attic insulated would cost a lot more than €100.....your figures do not add up

Bass Reeves

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Semi D 4 bedroom

With that size house it just came down to the fact that you could afford to heat it to a decent level before starting to carry out energy renovation. A lot of people cannot

I build a house around 1990. Instead of going with the low insulation regulations at the time I insulated to a higher standard. I filled the cavities with blown rock wool (100mm) and used insulated board on the inside walls. 150 mm rockwool in the attic. 50 mm wall T&G pink aeroboard under the floor rather than 25mm white. I put in a wood burning stove in the sitting room at the time rather than an open fire. We use about 1100 L of kerosene each year to heat the house along with the wood stove

In 2014 we installed solar panels not really to Dave energy but we had an issue in that we had no hot water during the summer unless we put on the oil or immersion but generally we had no hot water as you only taught of this when there was no hot water.

The solar panels achieved about a 50-80 L if oil/ year reduction (30-70euro depending on oil prices) . It is not an economical choice in reality the money saved would not pay the interest if you borrowed the money ( about 4k this Inc a power shower as you needed it to use the water and after grant).

First day installation of insulation or energy choices is an option but retrofitting even with grants struggle to repay for themselves. Unless lower energy rated houses jump from F&G to C&D it is unlikely that real energy savings will take place. However upgrading energy ratings of houses will struggle with the cost of achieving it.

I forgot I installed thermostatically controlled rad valves first day, I replaced them once since. Replacement was about 350-400 euro.

Nermal

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A D3 house would not be a seriously low rated house to begin with. More than likely it was build in the last 15 years. A 3-4 bedroom house with an F or G rating will cost 5K+ to heat to average temp 18c all year round. People gennerally cannot afford this so they limit there energy usage. If they bring that house up to E or D rating it is likely that the house will more liveable in not that they will achieve huge energy savings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox#Energy_conservation_policy

The more energy-efficient our homes are, the more ways we find to expend energy.

gifted

I fitted a stove a few years ago because it was encouraged to burn clean wood so for every tree that was cut a new one was planted to replace

Condensing boilers were only meant to be fitted as they were more energy efficient

Wood pellet boilers were encouraged as the wood supply again could be replaced

Diesel cars were encouraged as they were more efficient

Solar panels were encouraged except they don't work for 6/8 months of the year

Now they want us to retrofit to air to water...how long before someone comes out and tells us they are bad and we should stop using them???

KyussB

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I’m not debating. I made a point and you went off on a rant. Your such an expert on insulation I couldn’t possibly debate with you.....I could never defeat such knowledge plus you can install as well....

Well look, it all goes back to your post claiming the Greens 50% emissions reduction target doesn't require massive government spending - so if you're not debating, you're just going off on your own random rants, and there's no point replying to you.

Bass Reeves

gifted wrote: »

I fitted a stove a few years ago because it was encouraged to burn clean wood so for every tree that was cut a new one was planted to replace

Condensing boilers were only meant to be fitted as they were more energy efficient

Wood pellet boilers were encouraged as the wood supply again could be replaced

Diesel cars were encouraged as they were more efficient

Solar panels were encouraged except they don't work for 6/8 months of the year

Now they want us to retrofit to air to water...how long before someone comes out and tells us they are bad and we should stop using them???

Geothermal heat pumps were another one

gifted

This reminds me of your man Manchan Megan, the Irish travel chap......declared this year that he's done with flying....bad for the environment etc etc.....never mind the fact he's travelled all over the world throughout his life by airplanes and now he's stopped he's going to start preaching about people to stop now.

gifted

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Geothermal heat pumps were another one

Yep .......only a matter of time before they start telling us that they're bad for the environment as well

Dempo1

I think Leo has played a blinder here. Desperately wants an election but sees the crap coming very soon with the deficit. I know, I'll entertain this show of muppets, go for the nonsensical coalition, let Michael take all the blame (again), the electorate will be begging for my return etc etc. As for the Greens, whilst all very admirable there notions, they are in cuckoo land if they think given the current crisis, Climate change and emissions are high on most peoples agenda. This coalition is a Train Wreck waiting to happen before its even been agreed upon. Just bizzare what's going on.

Shefwedfan

gifted wrote: »

Listen...I'm a plumber....to install TRV on a heating system would cost a lot more than €200....to get your attic insulated would cost a lot more than €100.....your figures do not add up

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Earthwool-Loft-Insulation-200mm-5.2x1.14m-5.93m2.html?name=insulation&type=simple

It was actually the rockwoll which I used but that seems to have gone up in price. But 5 x rolls = 100 quid. More than plenty for a semi D in dublin....

That's 200 quid for TRV
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/white-chrome-angled-trv-lockshield-15mm-x/31811

Boom.....

If you know the streets like I know the streets :P

Eric Cartman

gifted wrote: »

I fitted a stove a few years ago because it was encouraged to burn clean wood so for every tree that was cut a new one was planted to replace

Condensing boilers were only meant to be fitted as they were more energy efficient

Wood pellet boilers were encouraged as the wood supply again could be replaced

Diesel cars were encouraged as they were more efficient

Solar panels were encouraged except they don't work for 6/8 months of the year

Now they want us to retrofit to air to water...how long before someone comes out and tells us they are bad and we should stop using them???

they're this generations storage heaters, they're not designed for climates like Ireland and you only get 1.2kw of heat for every 1kw of electricity in the deep winter. Self builds sensibly install a gas boiler as a backup, new builds the insulation in the house is doing most of the work, retrofits are a waster of time, you could throw a gas boiler in a new build and use about a 5er of gas a month to heat the whole thing.

People are going to love the service cost of those things when they realise that they were supposed to do yearly maintenance, have a re-gas every few years etc...

gifted

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Earthwool-Loft-Insulation-200mm-5.2x1.14m-5.93m2.html?name=insulation&type=simple

It was actually the rockwoll which I used but that seems to have gone up in price. But 5 x rolls = 100 quid. More than plenty for a semi D in dublin....

That's 200 quid for TRV
https://www.screwfix.ie/p/white-chrome-angled-trv-lockshield-15mm-x/31811

Boom.....

If you know the streets like I know the streets :P

And what about the cost for fitting them? The vast majority of people don't understand how TRV work let alone fitting them?

The greens are planning to retrofit 500,000 houses...not with TRV but with ATW....these units have to be gassed as well. A lot more than €200to €300

Shefwedfan

gifted wrote: »

I fitted a stove a few years ago because it was encouraged to burn clean wood so for every tree that was cut a new one was planted to replace

Condensing boilers were only meant to be fitted as they were more energy efficient

Wood pellet boilers were encouraged as the wood supply again could be replaced

Diesel cars were encouraged as they were more efficient

Solar panels were encouraged except they don't work for 6/8 months of the year

Now they want us to retrofit to air to water...how long before someone comes out and tells us they are bad and we should stop using them???

Solar works all year round, yes it is not as efficient but it works


Plus maybe 4 months its output is low, 8 months it is not

gifted

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Solar works all year round, yes it is not as efficient but it works


Plus maybe 4 months its output is low, 8 months it is not

A standard oil boiler works as well...not as efficient but it works...yet we had to change to condensing boiler.

Are you advocating spending money on something that's not efficient?

Huntergonzo

Dempo1 wrote: »

I think Leo has played a blinder here. Desperately wants an election but sees the crap coming very soon with the deficit. I know, I'll entertain this show of muppets, go for the nonsensical coalition, let Michael take all the blame (again), the electorate will be begging for my return etc etc. As for the Greens, whilst all very admirable there notions, they are in cuckoo land if they think given the current crisis, Climate change and emissions are high on most peoples agenda. This coalition is a Train Wreck waiting to happen before its even been agreed upon. Just bizzare what's going on.

But Leo is going to be part of the next government (provided it's formed of course) so he won't be able to wash his hands of blame if/when things go wrong.

It's Mary Lou who is cackling in the dark.

Politicians are dishonest at the best of times, but it's times like these that the dishonesty hits its peak:

Micheal Martin = Swore blind he wouldn't go into coalition with FG cause he thought he'd get enough seats to go in with someone else but that went horribly wrong. Now has to bite the bullet to ensure he doesn't go down in history as the only FF leader never to become Prime Minister, but will say with a straight face that he's doing this for the 'betterment of our country'.

Leo = wants another election cause he knows he'll do better (although maybe not as well as he thinks) but continues to make all the sounds of wanting to go into coalition, but sure we all believe him, so it's grand

Mary Lou = cackling in the dark, nearly wore out the word 'change' this year but in spite of this, is desperate to avoid government and probably wants to see a FF/FG/miscellaneous government more than anyone in the country!

What a fine bunch of reps we have.

Shefwedfan

gifted wrote: »

And what about the cost for fitting them? The vast majority of people don't understand how TRV work let alone fitting them?

As I said if you know the streets....


Insulation to be fair with the rockwoll type stuff you would want to be a real idiot not to know how to do it.....


TRV.....well knowing a good plumber, he had a job to do, I done it for him and then he done it for me....one good turn....

Shefwedfan

Huntergonzo wrote: »

But Leo is going to be part of the next government (provided it's formed of course) so he won't be able to wash his hands of blame if/when things go wrong.

It's Mary Lou who is cackling in the dark.

Politicians are dishonest at the best of times, but it's times like these that the dishonesty hits it's peak:

Micheal Martin = Swore blind he wouldn't go into coalition with FG cause he thought he'd get enough seats to go in with someone else but that went horribly wrong. Now has to bite the bullet to ensure he doesn't go down in history as the only FF leader never to become Prime Minister, but will say with a straight face that he's doing this for the 'betterment of our country'.

Leo = wants another election cause he knows he'll do better (although maybe not as well as he thinks) but continues to make all the sounds of wanting to go into coalition, but sure we all believe him, so it's grand

Mary Lou = cackling in the dark, nearly wore out the word 'change' this year but in spite of this, is desperate to avoid government and probably wants to see a FF/FG/miscellaneous government more than anyone in the country!

What a fine bunch of reps we have.

100% agree with this. It would be a disaster for SF if they had to step up to government now.

Shefwedfan

gifted wrote: »

A standard oil boiler works as well...not as efficient but it works...yet we had to change to condensing boiler.

Are you advocating spending money on something that's not efficient?

Depends what your cost case is to be honest. Solar panel will work for some people and not other.



I wasn't aware of any law saying you "had" to change to a condensing boiler. I have a cottage in the country which is still running on one. For the amount of time I actually use the house it would be worse for the environment to change the boiler than to keep it ticking over.



It made sense to change to a condensing boiler as people living in a house and burning oil all year round the cost saving meant it was paid off very quickly.



Nobody is saying you have to change to A2W either, it is a recommendation and if building a new house it is required but that just makes sense.

Huntergonzo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

100% agree with this. It would be a disaster for SF if they had to step up to government now.

There's no fear of it, they will avoid government like the plague and still somehow still manage to convince many people that they tried desperately to form a 'left alliance'.

LawBoy2018

Huntergonzo wrote: »

There's no fear of it, they will avoid government like the plague and still somehow still manage to convince many people that they tried desperately to form a 'left alliance'.

If the Greens reject the deal, will FF & FG throw in the towel and call for another election? Or will they begin recruiting Independent TDs? If it turns out to be the latter, I could see the Greens being punished down the line.

Despite their baggage, I would love to see SF take the reigns.

Loafing Oaf

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

If the Greens reject the deal, will FF & FG throw in the towel and call for another election? Or will they begin recruiting Independent TDs?

Martin will certainly attempt the latter, sustained lovebombing of Lowry, McGrath etc. The numbers are there with FF & FG gene pool alone...

LawBoy2018

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Martin will certainly attempt the latter, sustained lovebombing of Lowry, McGrath etc. The numbers are there with FF & FG gene pool alone...

He's completely blindsided by his own ambition. Surely some of the more shrewd FF TDs would say that enough is enough. Even if the current deal is accepted, FF will be decimated by the covid fall-out, playing right into the hands of FG in 2022.

Eric Cartman

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

He's completely blindsided by his own ambition. Surely some of the more shrewd FF TDs would say that enough is enough. Even if the current deal is accepted, FF will be decimated by the covid fall-out, playing right into the hands of FG in 2022.

its not ambition at all, he just doesn't want the title of 'the only ff leader to never be Taoiseach' he would do a deal with the devil himself to not have that as his legacy.

LawBoy2018

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not ambition at all, he just doesn't want the title of 'the only ff leader to never be Taoiseach' he would do a deal with the devil himself to not have that as his legacy.

Is that not the very definition of ambition? Lol. He's literally prepared to sacrifice FF to the wolves to protect his own self-interests.

Shefwedfan

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Martin will certainly attempt the latter, sustained lovebombing of Lowry, McGrath etc. The numbers are there with FF & FG gene pool alone...

It doesn't matter what Martin trys it wont happen. FF bring everything to a vote and the party wont accept it,


MM knows if this doesn't go through now it will go to election and I very much doubt he will be leader for another election.

FrancieBrady

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its not ambition at all, he just doesn't want the title of 'the only ff leader to never be Taoiseach' he would do a deal with the devil himself to not have that as his legacy.

I agree that he will do anything to be Taoiseach but he needn't worry, the way FF are going he won't be holding that title for long.

Leonard Hofstadter

They'll try and talk to the independents, assuming only the Greens reject going into power. They (FG in particular) don't want to be blamed for causing an election, even though FG would love one to capitalise on their current numbers.

If FF Grassroots reject it, either FF will dispose of Mícheál and talk to SF, Soc Dems, etc, without FG involved then perhaps Labour and the Soc Dems will examine their consciences again and reconsider going into government (the numbers are there), or Mícheál will stay and FF and FG and try to get the independents on board.

Failing that, there will have to be another election.

All of these suit FG much better than the current scenario.

Alf Veedersane

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How do you work that out? I had a house in Dublin D3 rating. I swapped to TRV and filled the attic with insulation after about 2 years living in the house. That made a serious reduction in oil, at least 200 euro per winter

Rebound effect. Improved energy efficiency won't always see the expected savings realised as people might be inclined to take advantage of the extra insulation to make the house more comfortable than they're used to. Well known phenomenon.

Anyway, they won't be going around the country to see how much people reduced oil consumption by. I would expect it would be derived from BER data