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Green Party wish list.
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So basically you have no problem those people burning coal, gas or oil, but you are going to make it very expensive to do so, even if any insulation they install only reduces the emissions by a small fraction.
Nothing to help these people insulate their homes?
What of those on low incomes, pensions, or disability benefits that have no chance whatsoever of getting a large loan from the banks to pay for this. Are the Greens going to guarantee that everyone that wishes to insulate their home will be able to borrow the money required and repay that money in an affordable way?
Why did the Greens nerf the gas storage facility on the Shannon? Surely gas is a far cleaner fuel than turf, coal or oi?
What percentage of home are you talking about?
Ask again, what gas storage?0 -
So tell me how exactly is hitting someone with a carbon tax going to help if the only source of heating in their home is an open fire or solid fuel stove?
What would you suggest they heat their home with?
It cant be gas because the Greens have just nerf'd the gas storage facility on the Shannon that would have provided the additional supply of gas required to convert all the homes using solid fuels to gas.
It obvious cannot be coal, or oil. So it has to be electricity. Do you realise how expensive it is to heat a home using electricity? That's the same electricity which over 60% is currently sourced from fossil fuels.
Please tell me the Greens have thought that one out and they have a solution ready and waiting
Fair points.
The GP are talking about heat pumps.
If gas emits much less CO2 than coal, I say continue using gas (I don't know the figures here).0 -
So basically you have no problem those people burning coal, gas or oil, but you are going to make it very expensive to do so, even if any insulation they install only reduces the emissions by a small fraction.
Nothing to help these people insulate their homes?
What of those on low incomes, pensions, or disability benefits that have no chance whatsoever of getting a large loan from the banks to pay for this. Are the Greens going to guarantee that everyone that wishes to insulate their home will be able to borrow the money required and repay that money in an affordable way?
Why did the Greens nerf the gas storage facility on the Shannon? Surely gas is a far cleaner fuel than turf, coal or oi?
If you are talking about this
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/plans-for-shannon-gas-terminal-scaled-back-as-it-faces-delay-37965148.html
The ass was falling out of it last year. I see nothing about the Green and this. As far as I remember the Greens will not allow fracking in Ireland. I didn't think it mentioned anything about this specific facility? unless you have a better reference
IT is worth nothing that loads of people including Cher :P and Mark Ruffalo:D wanted Ireland to stop this facility0 -
Why did the Greens nerf the gas storage facility on the Shannon? Surely gas is a far cleaner fuel than turf, coal or oi?
It seems the GP don't accept gas as a transition fuel?
https://www.greenamerica.org/fight-dirty-energy/amazon-build-cleaner-cloud/natural-gas-transition-fuel-myth#:~:text=Natural%20gas%20has%20been%20promoted,that%20runs%20entirely%20on%20renewables.
How bad/good is gas compared to coal?0 -
Fair points.
The GP are talking about heat pumps.
If gas emits much less CO2 than coal, I say continue using gas (I don't know the figures here).
You can install a gas heating system with Calor LPG to replace a standard solid fuel. IT is a "green" fuel. I am sure efanton was aware of this as well.....
As I said, plenty of options available for house but I would like to know what percentage of homes in Ireland are still running on solid fuel because this seems to be posted daily by this specific posters, so it has to be a high percetge doesnt it?0 -
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Shefwedfan wrote: »How did they do anything to the gas storage on the Shannon? I didn’t see anything about that ?
PS loads of options to heat a home by the way
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/weve-been-betrayed-on-lng-39291648.html
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/eu-vote-brings-controversial-shannon-lng-gas-terminal-a-step-closer-981322.html
https://www.arup.com/projects/shannon-lng-terminal
Just to be clear, not all the gas supplied was going to be fracked. In fact the project would probably still go ahead if the Irish government demanded that no fracked gas would be transported to this facility.
Meanwhile the Irish gas fields do not provide sufficient supplies to service the entire country, and the gas we get from the UK could be seriously affected if the outcome of the BREXIT negotiations are not in Ireland favour.
With the green banning all oil and gas extrapolation in Irish waters, where is the gas going to come from, and even if there is just enough market forces will drive up the cost of the existing gas because those suppliers more or less have a monopoly.
While I dont want to see fracking take place anywhere, I also dont want to see Ireland at the mercy of the UK government either.
The smart move would have been let that facility go ahead but put a ban on fracked gas being imported or to scrap the plans for that plant and allow further exploration for gas fields in Irish waters so that Ireland had its own independent supplies if that need arose.0 -
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/eu-vote-brings-controversial-shannon-lng-gas-terminal-a-step-closer-981322.html
https://www.arup.com/projects/shannon-lng-terminal
Just to be clear, not all the gas supplied was going to be fracked. In fact the project would probably still go ahead if the Irish government demanded that no fracked gas would be transported to this facility.
Meanwhile the Irish gas field do not provide sufficient supplies to service the entire country, and the gas we get from the UK could be seriously affected if the outcome of the BREXIT negotiations are not in Ireland favour.
With the green banning all oil and gas extrapolation in Irish waters, where is the gas going to come from, and even if there is just enough market forces will drive up the cost of the existing gas because those suppliers more or less have a monopoly.
While I dont want to see fracking take place anywhere, I also dont want to see Ireland at the mercy of the UK government either.
The smart move would have been let that facility go ahead but put a ban on fracked gas being imported or to scrap the plans for that plant and allow further exploration for gas fields in Irish waters so that Ireland had its own independent supplies if that need arose.
https://www.calorgas.ie/about-us/biolpg
Where does it say that the Greens have stopped this project by the way?
I do agree we shouldnt have it by the way.....its just another US company dumping a pile of poo in Ireland because it suits.....0 -
Shefwedfan wrote: »https://www.calorgas.ie/about-us/biolpg
Where does it say that the Greens have stopped this project by the way?
I do agree we shouldnt have it by the way.....its just another US company dumping a pile of poo in Ireland because it suits.....
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/weve-been-betrayed-on-lng-39291648.htmlThe decision by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael to sacrifice the long awaited Shannon LNG project to secure a coalition with the Green Party has caused dismay across north Kerry.
As I stated earlier. I personally am against fracking. But if the plan could go a head on the condition no fracked gas was imported it made sense.
With the ban on all exploration, and Ireland needing gas supplies for the next few decades at the very least, no matter what happens, cancelling both the plant and further exploration is a stupid move. Cancelling one would be ok but not both.
Put BEXIT into the mix and our reliance on UK gas, and the Greens have cooked up a potential recipe for disaster for this country.0 -
It's been said many times though: Agreeing to budget balancing and the high likelihood of austerity, is the opposite of doing something - it will make things worse, in terms of green policies...Tell me how wrote: »I do, but that is always going to be the case. But, no one from any of the other parties is coming remotely near advocating for doing anything.
So which is better, doing something (however small the chances of success) or doing nothing but being able to say what should be done?
Why don't you see that?
They have agreed to a government plan that will NOT implement meaningful green policies - and WILL have a huge chance of implementing a massive increase in inequality and a further grinding-down of the finances, for the least well off...
I mean you're smart enough to see the problems here - I do not get why there seems to be a blind backing of the Green Party, when the deal they have struck is worse than not going into government.0 -
We know FF/FG are shysters - we are pissed with the Greens for enabling them in return for pretty much nothing other than career opportunism - that's what the issue is here...Tell me how wrote: »Again with 'the greens, the greens, the greens'.
What are your thoughts on the strategies of FF/FG/SF or whoever else you care to mention in relation achieving the targets we committed to in the Paris agreement.
...
You've seen my posts on other climate change threads, so you know I'm serious about reducing emissions, and have wide-ranging views of how that should be done - so you would know I want action taken.0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 11497
We know FF/FG are shysters - we are pissed with the Greens for enabling them in return for pretty much nothing other than career opportunism - that's what the issue is here...
They lost a lot of good people the last time they did this, and it'll happen again.
If you want to see what happens a progressive party that moves too far from its roots, look at the Irish Labour Party.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 11497
And Ireland still has a vacant space for a sensible Left leaning party that could gather support. The corrupt and power hungry can relax now.0 -
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/weve-been-betrayed-on-lng-39291648.html
As I stated earlier. I personally am against fracking. But if the plan could go a head on the condition no fracked gas was imported it made sense.
With the ban on all exploration, and Ireland needing gas supplies for the next few decades at the very least, no matter what happens, cancelling both the plant and further exploration is a stupid move. Cancelling one would be ok but not both.
Put BEXIT into the mix and our reliance on UK gas, and the Greens have cooked up a potential recipe for disaster for this country.
What has brexit got to do with it?
Do you know the route gas comes into Ireland ? :-)0 -
Shefwedfan wrote: »What has brexit got to do with it?
Do you know the route gas comes into Ireland ? :-)
YES of course I do,
All gas in Ireland currently comes for two sources. The Kinsale gas field and the balance comes from the UK. From Scotland via undersea pipes to Northern Ireland and then across the border.
If BREXIT goes horribly wrong, and import tariffs are applied, then our gas will be significantly more expensive.
Unless of course the Scots get their independence :-P0 -
YES of course I do,
All gas in Ireland currently comes for two sources. The Kinsale gas field and the balance comes from the UK. From Scotland via undersea pipes to Northern Ireland and then across the border.
If BREXIT goes horribly wrong, and import tariffs are applied, then our gas will be significantly more expensive.
Unless of course the Scots get their independence :-P
What exactly would Brexit do to gas might I ask?0 -
Shefwedfan wrote: »What exactly would Brexit do to gas might I ask?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53101542
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/gove-rejects-european-union-s-assertion-on-northern-ireland-protocol-1.4282810
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0610/1146637-barnier-brexit/
It looks like there might not be time for a proper trade deal to be done between the EU and the UK before January 1st.
If that happens then there will be trade tariffs because all trade will be governed by WTO trade rules.
Coveney has been doing his nut over the last month or so, becuase the British seem to think they can cherry pick what bits of an EU deal will they will agree to and what they will not. Barnier the EU negotiator is adamant that its a full deal or no deal.
Ireland cannot strike its own deal with the UK because it is an EU member.
At the moment there is a temporary agreement in place so that Northern Ireland is considered part of the EU for trading purposes even though the UK has officially left the EU. When that temporary agreement expires and if there is no deal in place between the EU and UK its very likely that tariffs will be applied to all goods and services between the UK and EU. In case you didnt realise we are in the EU and the gas comes from the UK.
Lets hope the British government sees sense, and comes to an agreement quickly, otherwise its going to be an absolute mess.0 -
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-53101542
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/brexit/gove-rejects-european-union-s-assertion-on-northern-ireland-protocol-1.4282810
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/0610/1146637-barnier-brexit/
It looks like there might not be time for a proper trade deal to be done between the EU and the UK before January 1st.
If that happens then there will be trade tariffs because all trade will be governed by WTO trade rules.
Coveney has been doing his nut over the last month or so, becuase the British seem to think they can cherry pick what bits of an EU deal will they will agree to and what they will not. Barnier the EU negotiator is adamant that its a full deal or no deal.
Ireland cannot strike its own deal with the UK because it is an EU member.
At the moment there is a temporary agreement in place so that Northern Ireland is considered part of the EU for trading purposes even though the UK has officially left the EU. When that temporary agreement expires and if there is no deal in place between the EU and UK its very likely that tariffs will be applied to all goods and services between the UK and EU. In case you didnt realise we are in the EU and the gas comes from the UK.
Lets hope the British government sees sense, and comes to an agreement quickly, otherwise its going to be an absolute mess.
I’m aware of all this
I still don’t know how this has anything to do with the green=bad you keep banging on about0 -
It's been said many times though: Agreeing to budget balancing and the high likelihood of austerity, is the opposite of doing something - it will make things worse, in terms of green policies...
Why don't you see that?
They have agreed to a government plan that will NOT implement meaningful green policies - and WILL have a huge chance of implementing a massive increase in inequality and a further grinding-down of the finances, for the least well off...
I mean you're smart enough to see the problems here - I do not get why there seems to be a blind backing of the Green Party, when the deal they have struck is worse than not going into government.
But, what way would it be received by the media, other political parties and the general populace if or in some manner, the Greens managed to convince a government to commit to Green initiatives with no fiscal responsibility.
While there are so many concerned with how health is funded in the country.
While there are so many concerned about the homeless situation in the country.
While there are so many concerned about the 'forgotten middle class' in the country.
Saoirse McHugh tweeted today that shows she effectively sees climate issue as a lesser concern than other issues with a social focus and she is against the PFG.
Young FG are against the deal partly (I think) because they think it moves towards equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity (a socialist ideal).
FF grass roots seem to have a strong movement against it because of joining with FG.
It seems everyone is focused on it being their way, or the high way and I cannot see how that is in any way likely to result in positive action.0 -
Shefwedfan wrote: »I’m aware of all this
I still don’t know how this has anything to do with the green=bad you keep banging on about
Ireland needs a reliable gas supply for the next few decades.
The green have force the government to ban all oil and gas exploration in Irish waters.
They have also stopped the LNG (liquid Natural Gas) facility on the Shannon from being built.
THe Kinsale Gas field, or at least the part of it that we have already tapped will expire in the next decade
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsale_Head_gas_fieldThe Kinsale Head gas field is an offshore natural gas field off the southern coast of Ireland discovered in 1973 near Old Head of Kinsale, in the Celtic Sea and met Ireland's gas need until 1996.[2] The gas field is located in a water depth of 100 metres and 1,000 metres below the seabed.[3]
The gas field is expected to run dry in 2020 or 2021 and will then be decommissioned, including the removal of both platforms.[4]
There are some smaller gas deposits connected to the Kinsale operation but these are unlikely to provide sufficient gas supplies for the next few decades.
So when those gas field dry up, with no LGN facility on the Shannon, and new new gasfields in Irish waters being opened up where do you thikn we are going to get all the gas we need. We will have only one option and that is to buy all our gas from the UK.
My point is quite simple. to stop BOTH the LNG facility and further exportation and drilling in Irish waters leaves us with absolutely nothing in a decades time. The country will still be using gas, but it will be more expensive gas, and all of it imported from the UK.
The Green policy will not stop people using gas because there is no alternative, at least not for a few decades.
If they killed just one of them then we probably could work our way through that, but to cancel both is in my opinion pure lunacy.
.
In a few decades time we might well be able to deal with no gas supplies once there are sufficient solar and wind farms in place. But solar strangely enough doesn't work during the night. Unless there is also some technology used to store massive amounts of electricity, and that has been put in place to supply part of the national grids needs at night, we are up the creek with out a paddle. The wind farms alone will not be sufficient for us to abandon gas, oil or coal for our heating needs for the next 15 to 20 years.
Like I have been saying the Green policies in of themselves are not bad, but only if the alternatives have been put in place first before the government starts taxing the bejesus out of everyone or deliberately cutting the supply of gas the country needs off before those alternative are put in place.
Do you see the problem now?0 -
This deal gets them nothing - as the very high likelihood of austerity trashes all their policies.
Very high likelihood they get nothing from this coaliton (other than another decade-long voter backlash) - when if they had any amount of spine or principles, they may actually grow into a proper competing party, and have a chance at getting something done.
The Greens exactly are a party that appears to be career politicians without any principles - existing only to co-opt the 'green vote', and ensure it never leads anywhere except into supporting FF/FG.
Getting a little in a good economic climate or something less in a recession is still more than staying outside the tent and getting f***all.
So, you want another election now. Give us your prediction of the result.0 -
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Tell me how wrote: »
While there are so many concerned with how health is funded in the country.
People have a nasty habit of dying when they can not get appropriate hospital treatment.
You suggesting unnecessary deaths are worth it to implement Green polices?
Similar to the above, homeless people die on the street during harsh winters.While there are so many concerned about the homeless situation in the country.
But if that gets rid of the homeless problem for you and allows you to spend the money instead on some wind turbines its got to be worth it, hasnt it?
I thought the whole idea was to make it a better country to live in, cant see the homeless people enjoying it to much even if they can look at the lovely parks, cycle lanes and windfarms.While there are so many concerned about the 'forgotten middle class' in the country.
Because believe it or not the money required to finance all these wonderful green project comes from somewhere. Most of it comes from the 'forgotten middle class'. If they dont have the money to spend, or cant afford higher taxation how are those green projects ever going to get done?0 -
^^^
You might want to read the thread again. You've misinterpreted my post.0 -
Austerity and budget-balancing are fiscally irresponsible - they are the opposite of fiscal responsibility, there is no purpose for them whatsoever...Tell me how wrote: »But, what way would it be received by the media, other political parties and the general populace if or in some manner, the Greens managed to convince a government to commit to Green initiatives with no fiscal responsibility.
While there are so many concerned with how health is funded in the country.
While there are so many concerned about the homeless situation in the country.
While there are so many concerned about the 'forgotten middle class' in the country.
Saoirse McHugh tweeted today that shows she effectively sees climate issue as a lesser concern than other issues with a social focus and she is against the PFG.
Young FG are against the deal partly (I think) because they think it moves towards equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity (a socialist ideal).
FF grass roots seem to have a strong movement against it because of joining with FG.
It seems everyone is focused on it being their way, or the high way and I cannot see how that is in any way likely to result in positive action.
I've said it plenty of times already - government finances don't work like household finances - you don't balance budgets like you would a household or business.
You target full output and full employment, and preventing the economy from overheating - if there is ever a balanced budget, it shoud only be an incidental side effect of dampening down overheating sectors of the economy. You never target budget balancing as a specific goal, at an unknown stage of the business cycle occurring 2 years away (with an extremely high likelihood of austerity), like the Greens have.
Really, you seem to be making up random reasons for why the Greens should accept - extremely weak reasons, as if the Green's should accept by default, no matter what the cost is, in terms of agreeing to bad and damaging/regressive policy.0 -
They get neither of the benefits of economic good times, because they agree to policies that have a very high likelihood of completely undoing any good from the first half of their term...Getting a little in a good economic climate or something less in a recession is still more than staying outside the tent and getting f***all.
So, you want another election now. Give us your prediction of the result.
A fresh electon where neither of us know the outcome, is no reason to accept a deal that is so bad, that it is worse than doing nothing...0 -
Tell me how wrote: »^^^
You might want to read the thread again. You've misinterpreted my post.
No I havent.the Greens managed to convince a government to commit to Green initiatives with no fiscal responsibility.
Do you honestly belief that to be the case, because the Green Party TD's that want members to vote for the coalition are saying the complete opposite.
Are you suggesting the Greens will happily join a coalition, be told there is no money for their policies, and be happy about that because that is what they convinced FF and FG to believe?
I simply do not believe you.
The green have some good ideas on how to improve this country. What they have not got is a clue on how to get those policies into action.
If they for one week sat down and discussed how they were going to get their projects done ( I mean properly, how much, how long, what interim measures), where the money will come from and a sensible path to achieving those projects, believe or not I think most of the country would be behind them.
I would, If I knew there was a plan that improved the country, was costed and achievable and there were alternatives in place before they started implement punitive taxes on those that did not have an alternative.
If you want to tax the bejesus out of diesel car owners then make sure they have the option to make the change to an EV vehicle and can afford to. What policy is in place for those that cant afford to buy a new car?
Could there not be a scheme where everyone could be guaranteed a loan and also affordable repayment according to their income. That's not the same as giving away free cars, they will pay the full price. But with something like that in place then you can raise the price of a litre of diesel to 5 euro a litre for those that do not have business vehicles, no one could complain because they were offered a reasonable alternative but choose not to take it.
Now I am not suggesting for one minute that the above idea is sensible or should be adopted, but do you see my point. You can tax the bejesus out of someone that refuses to make a sensible choice, but you shouldn't tax them simply because they are unable to afford to make that choice or that choice is not available to them.
I could as why do I see Green party members using trains and busses powered by diesel. Is there any difference to them getting ride in a diesel car?
Surely if they were that principled they would only use the DART or Luas as they are electric and walk or use bicycles if they couldnt.
But that would be totally wrong and unreasonable for me to ask that if they did not have any other sensible option but to use a bus or train. You getting my point?
Its not I think what the Greens want to do is wrong, its that they are going about it in completely the wrong way. Give people the alternative first and the vast majority will take that alternative without the threat of taxes.0 -
Austerity and budget-balancing are fiscally irresponsible - they are the opposite of fiscal responsibility, there is no purpose for them whatsoever...
I've said it plenty of times already - government finances don't work like household finances - you don't balance budgets like you would a household or business.
You target full output and full employment, and preventing the economy from overheating - if there is ever a balanced budget, it shoud only be an incidental side effect of dampening down overheating sectors of the economy. You never target budget balancing as a specific goal, at an unknown stage of the business cycle occurring 2 years away (with an extremely high likelihood of austerity), like the Greens have.
Really, you seem to be making up random reasons for why the Greens should accept - extremely weak reasons, as if the Green's should accept by default, no matter what the cost is, in terms of agreeing to bad and damaging/regressive policy.
There's only one issue with your plan, no one anywhere close to governance is considering it and if the Troika were to to hear of it they'd be booking flights to Dublin once again.
We might as well hope that Santa Claus would bring a pile of cash and while he's at it, convince everyone to give Green initiatives a chance or a few years.0 -
No I havent.
Do you honestly belief that to be the case, because the Green Party TD's that want members to vote for the coalition are saying the complete opposite.
Are you suggesting the Greens will happily join a coalition, be told there is no money for their policies, and be happy about that because that is what they convinced FF and FG to believe?
I simply do not believe you.
The green have some good ideas on how to improve this country. What they have not got is a clue on how to get those policies into action.
If they for one week sat down and discussed how they were going to get their projects done ( I mean properly, how much, how long, what interim measures), where the money will come from and a sensible path to achieving those projects, believe or not I think most of the country would be behind them.
I would, If I knew there was a plan that improved the country, was costed and achievable and there were alternatives in place before they started implement punitive taxes on those that did not have an alternative.
If you want to tax the bejesus out of diesel car owners then make sure they have the option to make the change to an EV vehicle and can afford to. What policy is in place for those that cant afford to buy a new car?
Could there not be a scheme where everyone could be guaranteed a loan and also affordable repayment according to their income. That's not the same as giving away free cars, they will pay the full price. But with something like that in place then you can raise the price of a litre of diesel to 5 euro a litre for those that do not have business vehicles, no one could complain because they were offered a reasonable alternative but choose not to take it.
Now I am not suggesting for one minute that the above idea is sensible or should be adopted, but do you see my point. You can tax the bejesus out of someone that refuses to make a sensible choice, but you shouldn't tax them simply because they are unable to afford to make that choice or that choice is not available to them.
I could as why do I see Green party members using trains and busses powered by diesel. Is there any difference to them getting ride in a diesel car?
Surely if they were that principled they would only use the DART or Luas as they are electric and walk or use bicycles if they couldnt.
But that would be totally wrong and unreasonable for me to ask that if they did not have any other sensible option but to use a bus or train. You getting my point?
Its not I think what the Greens want to do is wrong, its that they are going about it in completely the wrong way. Give people the alternative first and the vast majority will take that alternative without the threat of taxes.
If you are going to quote me, don't leave out the 'if' within the same sentence you are quoting.
And no, as a consequence, I am not getting your point.0 -
Tell me how wrote: »If you are going to quote me, don't leave out the 'if' within the same sentence you are quoting.
And no, as a consequence, I am not getting your point.
Well its either one or the other.
So are you sayings
they didnt convince FF/FG to commit to Green initiatives with no fiscal responsibility.
or
they did convince FF/FG to commit to Green initiatives with no fiscal responsibility.0 -
You need to get familiar with macroeconomics and our current macroeconomic conditions/environment. The Troika came here due to the bank bailout - we haven't bailed out the banks again. The interest rate on government bonds is near 0% - meaning money is readily available and it's a virtually risk-free way to engage in stimulus (with rollover risk not being a concern any time in the foreseeable future either).Tell me how wrote: »There's only one issue with your plan, no one anywhere close to governance is considering it and if the Troika were to to hear of it they'd be booking flights to Dublin once again.
We might as well hope that Santa Claus would bring a pile of cash and while he's at it, convince everyone to give Green initiatives a chance or a few years.
This is the most important thing to know about green politics in general: You can't have true green politics, without consistent massive government spending - green politics is inherently incompatible with budget-balancing/austerity.0 -
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You need to get familiar with macroeconomics and our current macroeconomic conditions/environment. The Troika came here due to the bank bailout - we haven't bailed out the banks again. The interest rate on government bonds is near 0% - meaning money is readily available and it's a virtually risk-free way to engage in stimulus (with rollover risk not being a concern any time in the foreseeable future either).
This is the most important thing to know about green politics in general: You can't have true green politics, without consistent massive government spending - green politics is inherently incompatible with budget-balancing/austerity.
Guess we're f*cked then.0
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