Green Party wish list.

combat14

blanch152 wrote: »

Absolutely agree with this. In fact, I would go further and impose an extra tax on houses outside communities, unless they are owned by working farmers.

There is no need for anyone to live outside villages, with the possible exception of farmers, but it should be noted that in many countries in Europe, many farmers live remotely from their farm.

When are these Nazis getting into power?

paw patrol

combat14 wrote: »

When are these Nazis getting into power?

The greens are more communist tbf


have we seen green/agricultural minded communists before?
oh yes - the Khmer Rouge :eek:

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

So what is you plan for those that already live outside villages and towns?

Name one of these countries that you talk of. I guarantee that in every country there are houses outside of towns and villages.

How would forcibly moving people to villages help?
Most villages are so isolated and small at the moment that it is still difficult if not impossible to provide public transport and services to them

I could see a reasonable the argument for people who choose to live outside towns or villages having to pay the full cost of connecting to electric, sewers, water etc.

I simply cant see how you are ever going to be able to tell people where or where not they choose to live

You do understand a balanced transport system includes walking/running/cycling/scooters(in most european cities)/cars/trains/buses/airplanes


Just because you invest in a train doesn't mean you shut down every other form of transport. Do you understand this?

Jimmy Garlic

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_reintroduction


Plenty of other countries also discussing as well as Ireland.

And it is a stupid idea in those countries too. Not an original idea either, it’s lifted straight out of agenda21. I can imagine a pack of wolves savaging some mushroom fueled Green Party drum circle in one of their teepees, serve them right.

Rows Grower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_reintroduction


Plenty of other countries also discussing as well as Ireland.

Do you personally think it is a good idea to reintroduce wolves to Ireland, where would you suggest would be a good place in Ireland to introduce the first batch?

This is a serious question but if you want to deflect or ignore it that's cool.

Jimmy Garlic

paw patrol wrote: »

The greens are more communist tbf


have we seen green/agricultural minded communists before?
oh yes - the Khmer Rouge :eek:

The Chinese killed all the sparrows during their great leap backwards. Didn’t work out too well when the pests that the sparrows ate decimated their crops and caused a famine.

efanton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do understand a balanced transport system includes walking/running/cycling/scooters(in most european cities)/cars/trains/buses/airplanes


Just because you invest in a train doesn't mean you shut down every other form of transport. Do you understand this?

Look, its this simple If you want to put a bus service, train service or any other form of public transport into every town in the country, in principle I am fine with that idea.

But the reality is that this country simply cannot afford to do such a thing, so I prefer to base my arguments on what is both feasible and affordable.

If you cant or will not put public transport in to every town in the country then surely the most logical thing to do is deal with the cars that will be the only form of transport that many people will have. Personally I think we should accelerate the removal of all petrol and diesel cars as quickly as possible. Surely any Green supporter would agree with that?

I am not against public transport, if it can be introduced in an affordable way to the entire country lets have it. But can it?

Podge_irl

efanton wrote: »

Look, its this simple If you want to put a bus service, train service or any other form of public transport into every town in the country, in principle I am fine with that idea.

But the reality is that this country simply cannot afford to do such a thing, so I prefer to base my arguments on what is both feasible and affordable.

If you cant or will not put public transport in to every town in the country then surely the most logical thing to do is deal with the cars that will be the only form of transport that many people will have. Personally I think we should accelerate the removal of all petrol and diesel cars as quickly as possible. Surely any Green supporter would agree with that?

I am not against public transport, if it can be introduced in an affordable way to the entire country lets have it. But can it?

You are aware that the current spending on infrastructure for private transport massively outstrips the spending for public transport yes? A reverse of that disparity doesn't mean cars will then be banned.

southstar

Podge_irl wrote: »

You are aware that the current spending on infrastructure for private transport massively outstrips the spending for public transport yes? A reverse of that disparity doesn't mean cars will then be banned.

I'm guessing the infrastructure you refer to is essentially roads...which is ironic given that they are also used to facilate public transport ...and the spending is to a large extent financed by various forms of taxes levied primarily on private transport users on these roads.

Rows Grower

efanton wrote: »

Look, its this simple If you want to put a bus service, train service or any other form of public transport into every town in the country, in principle I am fine with that idea.

But the reality is that this country simply cannot afford to do such a thing, so I prefer to base my arguments on what is both feasible and affordable.

If you cant or will not put public transport in to every town in the country then surely the most logical thing to do is deal with the cars that will be the only form of transport that many people will have. Personally I think we should accelerate the removal of all petrol and diesel cars as quickly as possible. Surely any Green supporter would agree with that?

I am not against public transport, if it can be introduced in an affordable way to the entire country lets have it. But can it?

The village I live a few kilometres outside of is on the Ring of Kerry and pre Covid 19 had an average of maybe 1,500 to 2,000 tourists visiting daily for the peak months of the summer.

Most of these arrived and departed in the space of 30 minutes on private bus tours, the public bus service is virtually non existent.

Last September an American tourist who was enjoying his visit in the shop/pub on a Friday afternoon asked "Excuse me, what time is the next public bus to Killarney?"

"June" was the serious reply, and it's a good job he didn't wait around for it either because he'd still be waiting on it.

efanton

Podge_irl wrote: »

You are aware that the current spending on infrastructure for private transport massively outstrips the spending for public transport yes? A reverse of that disparity doesn't mean cars will then be banned.

Are people so thick that dont get the simple point.

Simple question,
Can this country afford to provide public transport for every single town?

If we can, then great lets have it.

If we cant, then obviously it means that a lot of the country will rely on the family car as their sole means of transport.
If cars are going to still remain the primary source of transport in rural areas then surely we should do something about getting rid of petrol and diesel cars and replacing them with EV's as quickly as possible.
This isnt rocket science. In fact everything I have argued for has been agreed to by the Green party. But it seems their supporters don't seem to even understand what their own parties policies are or what they have agreed to.

Im not arguing that no money should be spent on public transport. If the government want to spend a bigger proportion on public transport that's fine with me, and I have never argued against that.

The Green have agreed a deal that agrees to continue with the National development plan.

https://www.finegael.ie/app/uploads/2020/06/ProgrammeforGovernment_Final_16.06.20.pdf

Page 14

Transport Infrastructure
In relation to new transport infrastructure, the Government is committed to a 2:1 ratio of expenditure between new public transport infrastructure and new roads over its lifetime. This ratio will be maintained in each Budget by the Government. In the event of an underspend on roads, this will not impact on
public transport spending.
Essential road and public transport maintenance and upkeep budgets will be fully protected to ensure continued public safety and connectivity.
We will continue the investment programme in public transport to improve our bus, light rail, commuter, and intercity rail network across our country.
We will develop and implement the existing strategies for our cities, such as the Greater Dublin Area Transport Strategy, the Galway Transport Strategy, the draft Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy, as well as strategies being developed for Waterford and Limerick, and other projects progressing
through planning.
Specifically, the Government will prioritise plans for the delivery of Metrolink, Luas and other light rail expansion, DART expansion and interconnector and Bus Connects in Dublin, Cork, Galway, and Limerick.
We are committed to maintaining the existing road network to a high standard and funding safety improvements.
We will continue to invest in new roads infrastructure to ensure that all parts of Ireland are connected to each other.

Page 15

Decarbonisation of Road Transport
To achieve our ambitious emission reduction targets, we need to significantly decarbonise our transport fleet, with a particular focus on cars and light goods vehicles.
We will:
• Use a range of policy approaches to incentivise use of electric vehicles (EVs) and encourage a shift away from petrol/diesel vehicles.

page 26

National Development Plan
We will bring forward the planned review of the National Development Plan (NDP) from 2022. We will use the review to set out an updated NDP for the period to 2031.
The review of the NDP will be consistent with the ambition of the Programme for Government. The updated NDP will be aligned with the National Planning Framework (NPF).
The NPF recognises the crucial importance of balanced regional development, clustered and compact growth, and improved connectivity to deliver economic prosperity and environmental sustainability.
The NPF is mandated for updating in 2024 and must respond to the evolving challenges across its strategic goals and be consistent with national policies.
The process of review of the NPD and updating of the NPF will not frustrate or delay existing projects.

(There's a typo in there NPD should read NDP)

The M20 being a core part of this plan.



It seems we have a lot of green supporters on here that dont even read or understand their own policies or the agreements their party have made on their behalf.

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

Look, its this simple If you want to put a bus service, train service or any other form of public transport into every town in the country, in principle I am fine with that idea.

But the reality is that this country simply cannot afford to do such a thing, so I prefer to base my arguments on what is both feasible and affordable.

If you cant or will not put public transport in to every town in the country then surely the most logical thing to do is deal with the cars that will be the only form of transport that many people will have. Personally I think we should accelerate the removal of all petrol and diesel cars as quickly as possible. Surely any Green supporter would agree with that?

I am not against public transport, if it can be introduced in an affordable way to the entire country lets have it. But can it?

Why do you need public transport in every town in Ireland?

efanton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why do you need public transport in every town in Ireland?

simply stop. If you're not going to read what people say, and do not have basic English literacy skill to understand what is written, then sorry I cannot help you any further.

I have never said we needed public transport in every town.
I have argued for the M20, and I have argued that we speed up removing petrol and diesel cars and replace them with EV's.
Both have been agreed by the Green party.

I seriously suggest you read that document in full. I gave you the link
Its obvious that what you think the Greens have negotiated is totally different to what has actually been negotiated.

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

simply stop. If you're not going to read what people say, and do not have basic English literacy skill to understand what is written, then sorry I cannot help you any further.

I have never said we needed public transport in every town.
I have argued for the M20, and I have argued that we speed up removing petrol and diesel cars and replace them with EV's.
Both have been agreed by the Green party.

I seriously suggest you read that document in full. I gave you the link
Its obvious that what you think the Greens have negotiated is totally different to what has actually been negotiated.

Based on figures M20 will cost over 1 billion. Waste of money. How many people travel on it? less than 1% of the population per day?



You haven't argued anything. You have zero knowledge of electric cars.



As pointed out numerous tiems by people Ireland needs a balanced system. You can't seem to comprehend that includes all forms of transport as I have already pointed out and numerous others.

Fred Cryton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do understand a balanced transport system includes walking/running/cycling/scooters(in most european cities)/cars/trains/buses/airplanes


Just because you invest in a train doesn't mean you shut down every other form of transport. Do you understand this?

Have you ever heard about the economic viability of train lines? Are you seriously saying the State should pay hundreds of millions to maintain a rural rail line with maybe a few dozen regular daily users? It would be much cheaper to just pay a taxi for each of them.

Fred Cryton

Podge_irl wrote: »

You are aware that the current spending on infrastructure for private transport massively outstrips the spending for public transport yes? A reverse of that disparity doesn't mean cars will then be banned.

Yes, and that is the case in all countries with low density populations. Heavy rail needs densely populated urban or inter-ruban settings to be economically viable. The lower the population density, the greater the spending on roads, in all countries. This is not rocket science.

efanton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Based on figures M20 will cost over 1 billion. Waste of money. How many people travel on it? less than 1% of the population per day?



You haven't argued anything. You have zero knowledge of electric cars.



As pointed out numerous tiems by people Ireland needs a balanced system. You can't seem to comprehend that includes all forms of transport as I have already pointed out and numerous others.

so you know whether I own an electric car now do you?
So what make and model is parked outside my door?


Yes a balanced system that include all forms of transport including cars. Where have I not agreed to that?

Apparently the M20 is not a waste of money.
Every political party has agreed it is required, and ask anyone that actually lives in Munster and they would agree too. Even the Green party have agreed to it.

The N20 is the most heavily used road in the country with the exception of the main roads going into Dublin city.

It is also near the top of the list regarding volume to capacity, operating at beyond 120%

https://www.tii.ie/tii-library/strategic-planning/nra-road-network-indicators/TII-National-Roads-Network-Indicators-2017.pdf

are you really determined to make a complete fool of yourself with arguments that you cant back up

Rows Grower

efanton wrote: »

so you know whether I own an electric car now do you?
So what make and model is parked outside my door?


Yes a balanced system that include all forms of transport including cars. Where have I not agreed to that?

Apparently the M20 is not a waste of money.
Every political party has agreed it is required, and ask anyone that actually lives in Munster and they would agree too. Even the Green party have agreed to it.

The N20 is the most heavily used road in the country with the exception of the main roads going into Dublin city.

It is also near the top of the list regarding volume to capacity, operating at beyond 120%

https://www.tii.ie/tii-library/strategic-planning/nra-road-network-indicators/TII-National-Roads-Network-Indicators-2017.pdf

are you really determined to make a complete fool of yourself with arguments that you cant back up

It's his mission in life and he will achieve it regardless of public opinion.

Shefwedfan

efanton wrote: »

so you know whether I own an electric car now do you?
So what make and model is parked outside my door?

I dont know if you do or dont but I know you don't have a clue. You are not aware the VRT is free at a certain clip level. That a new car already has a potential 10k reduction from new. That tolls are reduced cost. Insurance/servicing etc are reduced cost.

efanton wrote: »

Yes a balanced system that include all forms of transport including cars. Where have I not agreed to that?

Well your changing your point again, when mentioned about train you told us that unless a train arrives to every door in Ireland and takes cars off the road if was useless. Changed your mind again?

efanton wrote: »

Apparently the M20 is not a waste of money.
Every political party has agreed it is required, and ask anyone that actually lives in Munster and they would agree too. Even the Green party have agreed to it.

When is it been built?


P.S. Politicians need votes

efanton wrote: »

The N20 is the most heavily used road in the country with the exception of the main roads going into Dublin city.

It is also near the top of the list regarding volume to capacity, operating at beyond 120%

https://www.tii.ie/tii-library/strategic-planning/nra-road-network-indicators/TII-National-Roads-Network-Indicators-2017.pdf

are you really determined to make a complete fool of yourself with arguments that you cant back up

So does 1% of the population use it?

efanton

Rows Grower wrote: »

It's his mission in life and he will achieve it regardless of public opinion.

I know its not nice to laugh at people, but that did give me a giggle.

Shefwedfan

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Have you ever heard about the economic viability of train lines? Are you seriously saying the State should pay hundreds of millions to maintain a rural rail line with maybe a few dozen regular daily users? It would be much cheaper to just pay a taxi for each of them.

Have you travelled recently on a train?

efanton

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont know if you do or dont but I know you don't have a clue. You are not aware the VRT is free at a certain clip level. That a new car already has a potential 10k reduction from new. That tolls are reduced cost. Insurance/servicing etc are reduced cost.






Well your changing your point again, when mentioned about train you told us that unless a train arrives to every door in Ireland and takes cars off the road if was useless. Changed your mind again?





When is it been built?


P.S. Politicians need votes





So does 1% of the population use it?

YAWN, still making arguments that you cant back up

do 1% of the population use the N2, N3, N11? NO so was there point in you argument?

You really do need to take a chill pill. You keep accusing me of saying things and yet for some mad reason you are never able to quote what I say. I wonder why that is?

VRT is capped by the way at a maximum of €5000 for electric vehicles
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html

Electric vehicles*** VRT relief of up to €5,000 depending on the age of the car in respect of certain series production vehicles until 31 December 2021

Rows Grower

What a beauty, she was one of the members who negotiated the deal and is voting against it.

Could well be a Sheffield Wednesday fan.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5574908/green-party-programme-government-vote-neasa-hourigan-update/

Podge_irl

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Yes, and that is the case in all countries with low density populations. Heavy rail needs densely populated urban or inter-ruban settings to be economically viable. The lower the population density, the greater the spending on roads, in all countries. This is not rocket science.

I didn't mention heavy rail. We should be spending more on trams, buses and indeed heavy rail if it is viable somewhere. Our spending on public transport in cities and large towns is wholly insufficient.

Podge_irl

southstar wrote: »

I'm guessing the infrastructure you refer to is essentially roads...which is ironic given that they are also used to facilate public transport ...and the spending is to a large extent financed by various forms of taxes levied primarily on private transport users on these roads.

Yes, and reversing the ratio of road use from 2/3 private transport 1/3 public to 2/3 public 1/3 private as they have now down on the quays is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be done.

Shefwedfan

Rows Grower wrote: »

What a beauty, she was one of the members who negotiated the deal and is voting against it.

Could well be a Sheffield Wednesday fan.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5574908/green-party-programme-government-vote-neasa-hourigan-update/

First: It's the Sun
Second: it has not one single comment from anyone in the Greens or the person who the article is written about

I do like the Sun Managed to get in a reference to Brexit :rolleyes: why would anyone read that gobs**t rag?

Rows Grower

Shefwedfan wrote: »

First: It's the Sun
Second: it has not one single comment from anyone in the Greens or the person who the article is written about

I do like the Sun Managed to get in a reference to Brexit :rolleyes: why would anyone read that gobs**t rag?

You just read it there ya gobsh*te.

Shefwedfan

Rows Grower wrote: »

You just read it there ya gobsh*te.

I read a link, your the person who read the actual paper and felt it was worth sharing.... Then called someone a gobsh**te for reading the link you posted, so what does that make you? :-)

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I read a link, your the person who read the actual paper and felt it was worth sharing.... Then called someone a gobsh**te for reading the link you posted, so what does that make you? :-)

Ask him does he know what a vulture fund is outta dat

Jimmy Garlic

Freicorps