has covid 19 been blown out of all proportion?

Xertz

cooperguy wrote: »

It kills (and gets people sick enough to need serious care) enough to cripple a health system. Why does that have to be repeated so often...

Beaucase some people are unable to see that the fact it hasn't surged here is because we took those measures. It's like putting brakes on your car and then concluding that because you haven't crashed into a brick wall you didn't need them and they're a waste of money.

Does anyone really think that some how all of the Irish political parties, health experts, scientific advisors, the WHO, the EU, almost all EU member governments, the US Federal Government, most state governments, Japan, China, South Korea all somehow want us to stay in an unprecedented economic pause for the craic ?

Apart from the fact it's extremely unlikely and goes against all of their interests, it would be one hell of an impressive conspiracy to get them all to agree to keep schtum.

Of course everyone wants to get the economy back on track asap. There's some weird suggestion that there are people out there who just want to close down the country indefinitely. Nobody ever suggested that other than people on conspiracy theory forums or those who are trying to stir things in the US and are just generally contrarian about any policy.

The fact that we have had less impact than Italy, Spain or the UK means we can also get back to normal probably a lot more quickly and with less economic and social damage. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

cooperguy

hopalongcass wrote: »

I think you my man is the one who is peddling nonsense,you have more than doubled the uk death rate,for effect is it?and you accuse someone else of peddling nonsense,the irony.

19k deaths so far in the uk and if you are not aware 60k people die from seasonal flu per year in the uk.

• The reported UK number is mainly hospital deaths (unlike here)
• We are a month into this crisis comparing to an entire flu seasons deaths already is just silly

hopalongcass

cooperguy wrote: »

Im sorry, but you are the one who has missed the point. Whatever the exact number ends up being, it has been demonstrated in multiple countries (with better health systems than ours) that the number of sick and dead overwhelmes a health service. Therefore the spread needs to be slowed to build capacity/PPE/staffing/training/etc. so that the health service does not crumble.

Please read this as many times as you need for it to sink in.

Moving the goalposts now is it,again i didn't or never said anything about whether the health services would get overrun or not.

We have already borrowed off a cliff and turned hotels into makeshift hospitals that aren't being used we could have still done that while still leaving the country running where the Exchequer had some money coming in from businesses pubs etc.

Instead we doubled down with our children and grandchildrens future and are not only losing tax money we are paying out 70 percent wages and doing this when the most extensive and thorough model shows it has a very low death rate.

Come up with all the overwhelmed nonsense you like,but the fact is no matter how overwhelmed the health system might or might not have become less than 1 percent of the population is going to die from this,and mostly old and sick and it does not warrant shutting the whole place and bankrupting the country for such a small death rate that is the point and only point that matters.

But keep cheering us off a cliff,its great isn't it 70 percent wages for nothing no travel expenses to work,why would you want to open things back up,its party time.The banks only give us 6 billion so far with a promise of up to 30 so the fun isn't over yet for you lockdown enthusiasts this is the celtic tiger mark 2 so you might as well enjoy it.But make no mistake none of us are going to escape unscathed from whats coming down the line.

skallywag

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus. 41,000 dead in the UK

What? Do you really think think that you can just pluck numbers out of the air? Clown ...

Xertz

Next time we should make sure the government has a discussion with the unknown virus and asks it how many people it's going to hospitalise, rather than base the plans on a forecast based on Italy, France and Spain.

I think we both just managed to nip it in the bud, and only just and got somewhat lucky.

There was every possibility those hospitals could have been overflowing had this tracked the same path as it did in our neighbouring countries.

The fact that it hasn't spread like wildfire is because we got a firebreak in in time.

We now have the luxury of being able to probably open up, with caution, more rapidly and in a more sustainable way than many of our neighbours, probably including the UK and USA.

wakka12

hopalongcass wrote: »

I think you my man is the one who is peddling nonsense,you have more than doubled the uk death rate,for effect is it?and you accuse someone else of peddling nonsense,the irony.

19k deaths so far in the uk and if you are not aware 60k people die from seasonal flu per year in the uk.

It is complete bull**** that 60k die in the UK from flu per year
Its about that much for the entire continent of Europe

72,000 per year according to WHO but this figure includes Russia, Turkey, Kazakhstan, Azerbajan, Uzekistan, Georgia, Armenia and several other central eurasian nations, about 1 billion people.
http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/communicable-diseases/influenza/seasonal-influenza/burden-of-influenza

It is 20,319 hospital deaths in the UK. It is estimated that at least half of the UK's COVID deaths are not yet reported.

Dont call somebody elses post bull**** then proceed to post even more bs

wakka12

skallywag wrote: »

What? Do you really think think that you can just pluck numbers out of the air? Clown ...

Not out of the air. That is the estimated death toll in the UK including deaths outside hospitals.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-thousands-of-cases-and-deaths-in-care-homes-unreported-in-daily-updates-11973625

50% of deaths in Ireland, Belgium, Canada , France occurred in nursing homes. So when UK counts their home and nursing home deaths their deaths will be about 41,000.

skallywag

wakka12 wrote: »

Not out of the air.

Post a link to that 41,000 number.

Boggles

skallywag wrote: »

What? Do you really think think that you can just pluck numbers out of the air? Clown ...

Have you some sort of comprehension difficulty?

41,000 dead in the UK according to the FT since March 5th

UK coronavirus deaths more than double official figure, according to FT study

wakka12

skallywag wrote: »

Post a link to that 41,000 number.

50% of Uk deaths are thought to be in nursing homes and at home.
They have not been reported.

Multiple the current Uk death toll x2.There you go

skallywag

Boggles wrote: »

Have you some sort of comprehension difficulty?

Complete conjecture.

Stick to the facts perhaps?

skallywag

wakka12 wrote: »

50% of Uk deaths are thought to be in nursing homes and at home.
They have not been reported.

Multiple the current Uk death toll x2.There you go

'thought to be' you say?

Boggles

skallywag wrote: »

Complete conjecture.

Stick to the facts perhaps?

Yes the fact is they do count covid 19 deaths outside of a hospital setting.

What part of that is confusing you?

wakka12

skallywag wrote: »

'thought to be' you say?

Based on a number of examples of countries where all deaths are reported such as Canada, Ireland , Belgium and France where at least half of deaths are in nursing homes and at home.
If you have any evidence to the contrary that would imply the situation in the UK differs drastically,please post

skallywag

Boggles wrote: »

What part of that is confusing you?

The x2 part.

I agree that there are more deaths occurring than being reported.

But where is the math behind the 'x2' claim?

wakka12

skallywag wrote: »

The x2 part.

I agree that there are more deaths occurring than being reported.

But where is the math behind the 'x2' claim?

Has been explained to you already

skallywag

wakka12 wrote: »

Has been explained to you already

Ah, it's an extrapolation based on other countries? I see ....

Boggles

skallywag wrote: »

The x2 part.

I agree that there are more deaths occurring than being reported.

But where is the math behind the 'x2' claim?

The FT article explains it.

Bare in mind the UK's best case scenario was 20,000 deaths.

skallywag

Boggles wrote: »

The FT article explains it.

I'm not buying it.

I agree totally that there are more deaths than being reported, but the x2 number is complete conjecture. It could be significantly more or less.

wakka12

skallywag wrote: »

Ah, it's an extrapolation based on other countries? I see ....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html
Or how about the fact that there were 6300 unaccounted for excess deaths in England Wales by the first week of April.

Anyway, of course it will turn out that Uk death toll is double.Theres no logical reason why UK would have less of these kind of deaths than all other western countries that report COVID fatalities this way. England even has a much older population than Ireland, if anything they will have an even higher proportion of nurshing home and home deaths than us.

Boggles

hopalongcass wrote: »

I think you my man is the one who is peddling nonsense,.....you are not aware 60k people die from seasonal flu per year in the uk.

Could I get a link that figure when you get a chance.

Good lad.

cooperguy

cooperguy wrote: »

It kills (and gets people sick enough to need serious care) enough to cripple a health system. Why does that have to be repeated so often...

Because a lot of people are thick and believe conspiracy theories etc.

Boggles

skallywag wrote: »

I'm not buying it.
.

I couldn't give a flying fúck TBH.

If you have evidence that refutes the claims made by FT link it up.

skallywag

Boggles wrote: »

I couldn't give a flying fúck TBH.

That's a pretty juvenile comment.

If you cannot engage in debate without throwing your toys out of the pram, then maybe stay closer to mommy's leg?

skallywag

Risteard81 wrote: »

None of that changes the fact that COVID-19 kills practically no-one

What are you basing this on? It has killed more than 1,000 people in Ireland alone since the first wave hit only a few weeks back.

Is that 'practically no-one' in your universe?

Balf

cooperguy wrote: »

Because repeating an untruth does not make it a fact. Nobody has proposed keeping the reponse for a long period of time. They are already talking about how it will be unwound in a contolled way.

Not to mention the fact that a huge number of deaths and a crippled health system will destroy the economy either way. Its laughable to think the economy would chug along happily if it was let, if we had what happened in Wuhan, Italy or New York happen here.

Oh, there are economic impacts either way.

Its just folk like yourself seem in denial over the extent of costs already incurred, and their duration, even without the signals that significant restrictions are to be in place for a long period of time.

So, indeed, the reason these points need repetition is because folk like you still don't really underrstand, yet. You only really see one side of the equation, so you're puzzled when someone raises both sides.

hopalongcass

wakka12 wrote: »

It is complete bull**** that 60k die in the UK from flu per year
Its about that much for the entire continent of Europe

72,000 per year according to WHO but this figure includes Russia, Turkey, Kazakhstan, Azerbajan, Uzekistan, Georgia, Armenia and several other central eurasian nations, about 1 billion people.
http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/communicable-diseases/influenza/seasonal-influenza/burden-of-influenza

It is 20,319 hospital deaths in the UK. It is estimated that at least half of the UK's COVID deaths are not yet reported.

Dont call somebody elses post bull**** then proceed to post even more bs

Always the lockdown enthusiasts who get the angriest around here i wonder why that is,is it because you can't actually debate your point so you think you need to shout and be abusive because you haven't actually got a strong point to debate on.

I haven't time to be searching all the sources i read on this previously,but here is one quote from a Peter Hitchens blog,who obviously i won't deny is a known anti lockdown guy.

But he is a very well educated journalist who doesn't put up garbage wily nily he checks his sources and is very professional.He doesn't claim to be an expert either but he claims to know experts and here is one quote from one of his stories for you to chew on.Bull**** too i suppose is it and hes just another crazy person spouting bull**** like me yeah?

"The DHSC notes that many of those who die from these diseases have underlying health conditions, as do almost all the victims of coronavirus so far, here and elsewhere. As the experienced and knowledgeable doctor who writes under the pseudonym ‘MD’ in the Left-wing magazine Private Eye wrote at the start of the panic: ‘In the winter of 2017-18, more than 50,000 excess deaths occurred in England and Wales, largely unnoticed.’"

cooperguy

Balf wrote: »

Oh, there are economic impacts either way.

Its just folk like yourself seem in denial over the extent of costs already incurred, and their duration, even without the signals that significant restrictions are to be in place for a long period of time.

So, indeed, the reason these points need repetition is because folk like you still don't really underrstand, yet. You only really see one side of the equation, so you're puzzled when someone raises both sides.

Im not in denial, i can see the costs. I understand the costs. I have seen both sides, i just choose not to ignore the deaths so far and the implications of exponential growth on both the death rate and the economy.

Boggles

skallywag wrote: »

That's a pretty juvenile comment.

If you cannot engage in debate without throwing your toys out of the pram, then maybe stay closer to mommy's leg?

Your sum total of debate is the equivalent of scratching your arsé and pulling a face.

Like I said if you have some evidence that refutes the FTs claim then link it up and I will gladly take a look, or offer some opinion other then "I'm not buying it".

If not you are just making loud noises, I might as well go debate with my fridge.

skallywag

Boggles wrote: »

If not you are just making loud noises, I might as well go debate with my fridge.

Debate away with your fridge all you want, you can swear at it too if it makes you happy.

If you cannot behave like an adult then just scuttle away somewhere else.